Mutt vs Ford GPW/1952 Willys or Cjs.

[choctalpur]

Dear Pakwheelers ! Needless to say that i'm a newbie to 4x4s. Now that i'm planning to buy my first jeep, it happens to be my neibours M151 aka Commando Jeep with a 2c engine. What i want to ask you fellows is your idea about the Mutt, and its performance and comfort level offroad as compared to other Jeeps, namely 1952, Ford GP/Willys MB, or even Cjs for that matter. Its compatibility with other brands' spares as it's really old, and i'm not sure i'll be able to find its spare parts lest it breaks down.

Regards.

[NoWorNeVeR]

Well i am keeping 1.

Its superb machine with only one little draw back of clearance and differential noise.
otherwise install toyota Diesel engine or restore original engine n enjoy

[bobby9191]

I am using Mutt on Regular basis since last 2 year.....it is a amazing machine in term of comfort and maneuverability .... i have drove it in Mudd Rally and realy impressed by its performance .... i dont think there is any issue of low clearance..... i dont know about willey and any other off roading jeep therefore cant compare it with others .........mine have 2 c non turbo engine having great power and excellent economy ......... but if u realy want to enjoy Mutt, keep it in its original condition including tyres (Military tyres) .... i personally like the machines ...but there are few problems are also related to it ...like original spares are not available and it requires great maintenance (oiling / Greasing) on regularly basis.

[choctalpur]

Thanks so much for your kind replies.

The one that i'm buying, well, still thinking to buy, has high profile tyres fitted on Alloy rims. Also it has a 2c engine, so i guess ground clearance, and differential noise shouldn't be a problem. It's however, a non 4WD.

Indeed it has great looks when compared to other Willy's or Cjs, but then again, beauty lies in the eyes of beholder.

One more thing, any ideas you guys can give about the price of such a machine. Well, it apparantly needs no denting, painting or mechanical works, and the demand is Rs. 225k non-negotiable. I personally believe that it shouldn't be more than Rs. 175k. Would appreciate more inputs here.

Regards.

[bobby9191]

mutt without 4x4 ...i dont know what to say.....the asking price seems fine to me...cause my mut cost me Rs.400,000/- and its 4x4 all original except engine.... i think its ok if u want to drive it on road but i dont suggest u to goo for off roading without 4x4 ..... can u plz upload some pics.....

[choctalpur]

Rs. 400k for a MUTT, your's must be in a Superb Condition. This one however is in a very FINE condition. As i said earlier, apparantly needs no denting or painting work. Also has Alloy Rims. So, given the condition, and now that you've told me your purchase price, the demanding price of this machine is alright then.

I've spoken to my mechanic, he told me that a different gear box may be installed for a 4wd. Lets see, if i grab that bargain, i'll upload a few pix.

Regards.

[bobby9191]

i have purchased it for Rs.120,000/- from a junk (non workable condition).....please keep in mind that the rupee is devaluing day by day and cost of parts and labour is increasing ..... i dont think that i will make a reasonable jeep in 400,000 again....

[NoWorNeVeR]

By clearence i mean comparison with Cj series and 52 willys.

Otherwise it gr8

[bobby9191]

no need to clearify my friend...u r right MUTT have low clearance then wileys and CJs ...but i have experienced one thing that MUTT have very control on road and off road.... i have travels 2 times between lahore and islamabad on GT Road...its a comfortable jeep.

[ehsankiani]

Here is my honest opinion (with all due respect to bobby9191 and his M151 which I mself witnessed performing pretty well in the Mud Rally).
M151s have, as already pointed out, less clearance than a M38. The M151 has Independant suspension front and rear making it more comfortable on the road. However, this also means that there is less wheel travel as compared to the M38s resulting in a lag in offroad performance compared to the M38. There are issues with the rear diffs that come up in a sizeable percentage of the Army auctioned MUTTs, specially if the vehicles are used (or abused) offroad a lot. There were a lot of roll overs (blamed on the suspension as well as driver faults) initially which led the US Military to not roll out a civilian version. Parts availability is an issue.
I would say that its a good looking 4x4 with a good drive on the road and on mild offroad drives.
Thanks
Ehsan

[sarmadqureshi]

The Mutt has a unitized monocoque body shell that was created by integrating the box frame rails INTO the sheet metal body structure. The body of the MUTT does NOT sit on a frame rail like other Jeeps.
Doing away with the separate frame gave the M151 slightly more ground clearance and at the same time lowering the center of gravity.

A Mutt has an Angle of Approach (AOA) of 66 degrees, while an M38 has a 55 deg AOA and the Ford MB/GPW, a 45 deg AOA.

YES, there are part availability issues when it comes to a MUTT, but nothing is impossible. Some common and known issues, the rear differential being one major one.

One thing unknown to many is that the M151 series have achieved a longer run of service than that of MB/GPW and M38/M38A1 series, COMBINED.

A Mutt's a classic, whereas a Ford MB/GPW is a vintage. You have to treat both with respect.

[bobby9191]

Dear Ehsan Thankx for sharing information ... i Remember u and ur black beauty.........i dont have much expertise in jeeps... so needs ur guidance in the matter.... plz explain what do u mean by " this also means that there is less wheel travel as compared to the M38s"..... what do u thing Wiliys is better option then MUTT?...i my self like the shape of willys but it looks smaller then MUTT and also very uncomfortable.

[bobby9191]

@ Sarmad.......what is angle of approach ?...

[sarmadqureshi]

@ Sarmad.......what is angle of approach ?...

AOA, is the angle at which you can approach an object without any body part creating a hinderance.

There's an angle of approach, an angle of departure and an angle of breakover. These angles primarily determine your vehicle's offroading capabilities.

Depicted here as;



Imagine what an angle these have.

a

[bobby9191]

sarmad thank you for such a vital information.........

[aisheikh]

The Mutt has a unitized monocoque body shell that was created by integrating the box frame rails INTO the sheet metal body structure. The body of the MUTT does NOT sit on a frame rail like other Jeeps.
Doing away with the separate frame gave the M151 slightly more ground clearance and at the same time lowering the center of gravity.

A Mutt has an Angle of Approach (AOA) of 66 degrees, while an M38 has a 55 deg AOA and the Ford MB/GPW, a 45 deg AOA.

YES, there are part availability issues when it comes to a MUTT, but nothing is impossible. Some common and known issues, the rear differential being one major one.

One thing unknown to many is that the M151 series have achieved a longer run of service than that of MB/GPW and M38/M38A1 series, COMBINED.

A Mutt's a classic, whereas a Ford MB/GPW is a vintage. You have to treat both with respect.

i have done away with the parts issue by extensively modding. I already have a long travel suspension. My next mod is a 4 inch lift. Talk about breakover angle, lolz I dont think this kind of stuff can be done on a M38A1.
I think my approach angle is 80+ degress

[DeeDee]

consider doing the same thing on stock MUTT...

80d fficeffice" />.... too much to handle on any 4x4.... and without roll cage even trying 60d+ is..... don’t have words plz.... is injurious to health ....

do you have the picture of 80d+... please share to understand..... as per my understanding we can park our 4x4 on 60d but cant complete the track if the track is longer than the wheel base.... we can climb if the track is lesser than wheel base.... considering 4x4 in our part of world….

i have done away with the parts issue by extensively modding. I already have a long travel suspension. My next mod is a 4 inch lift. Talk about breakover angle, lolz I dont think this kind of stuff can be done on a M38A1.
I think my approach angle is 80+ degress

[DeeDee]

@aisheikh.... you got the most heavily costed and modified MUTToyota in Pakistan..... you did a great job boy.....

[ehsankiani]

Dear Ehsan Thankx for sharing information ... i Remember u and ur black beauty.........i dont have much expertise in jeeps... so needs ur guidance in the matter.... plz explain what do u mean by " this also means that there is less wheel travel as compared to the M38s"..... what do u thing Wiliys is better option then MUTT?...i my self like the shape of willys but it looks smaller then MUTT and also very uncomfortable.

Thank you sir for the kind words. I am also just learning. . By wheel travel, I mean what is commonly called 'flex'. The picture below is of a Spring Over Axel (a major mod) conversion we did on a Willys back in 2003 and defines 'Flex' . This on a stock M38 is more than that on a M151 but it would not matter too much if you are not into some serious offroad driving (as already pointed out). I am sure, as aisheikh has mentioned in his post, you can modify the suspension on a M151 to a certain extent to get more travel (but possibilities on a solid axel 4x4 would always be more specially considering the availability of special aftermarket parts here in Pakistan).



I would agree with you on the comfort point. The Independant suspension drives like a car on the road.
Thank you
Ehsan

[bobby9191]

@Ehsan...Thank u for the Information.