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Thread: My 1988 Accord is giving me 4KM/L on petrol and 70K on 55KG Cylender

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    Default My 1988 Accord is giving me 4KM/L on petrol and 70K on 55KG Cylender

    Dear Pakwheelers

    I have just purchased 1988 Accord, it is giving me 4KM/L on petrol and 70K on 55KG Cylinder. Although I generally dont push full accelator. Also engine is leaking oil from tapit cover. Someone has sealed it with silicon kind of stuff instead of proper seal.

    My car has automatic transmission and it gives jerk when gear shifts. In D4 car moves like an old man, in d3 i generally go up 60 with half padel and on full padel maximum go around 80. In d2 I can go around 100.

    I have contacted few mechanics and they all said that swap the engine otherwise you won't get power and economy.

    So after discussion with 2 different mechanics and searching on internet here are the options:-

    1- Only change the automatic transmission with automatic to manual (it will cost around 20K in ISB), no guaranty that it will improve pick and mileage as per my expectation.
    2- Repair current engine for oil leaks and replace ring/piston. Not sure about price in ISB.
    3- Replace engine and transmission (It will cost around 100K for honda db15 dual vtec+transmission) But I have heard that 4efe (Toyota) is also good option for both fuel and economy. Should I replace the engine+transmission or not?
    4- Sell the car . Personally I don't want to sell the car unless it is the last option.

    Thanks in advance to all .

  2. #2
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    Any suggestions Pakwheelers?

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    it seems u got a lemon.better not burn money fixing something someone else junked.

    if u r brave enough to travel to pindi
    visit mithu khan
    and look for a d15b single stage vtec swap. they will adjust old engine and make a package deal
    Life is short and very unpredictable just like a Quarter mile .....

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    Best option, sell the car to me

    Firstly, don't even think of dropping in a Toyota engine in your Accord, that's the worst move you can make.
    Secondly, don't swap in a D15B either, it just ruins the originality of the car itself.
    Thirdly, whoever quoted you 100k for a D15B including transmission is ripping you off.

    CA Accords are delicate machines but with proper maintenance, they're pure work horses.

    For engine swap, you have a few options:

    - A16A1
    - A20A3
    - A20A4
    - B20A

    The A-series will be a bolt on fit (no changes to the mounts) and they provide a bit of both power and economy.

    However, if you decide to go with the A20A3 or A20A4, or any other EFi engine, you will have to change a few parts as well.
    Here's some of the main components that will need to be replaced:

    - Main Wiring harness

    - Main fuse box
    - Main Circuit box
    - Fuel pump
    - Fuel injected fuel tank
    - ECU

    As far as the B20 is concerned, you will have to change the mounts and axles as well. The B20's Intake Manifold wont let the Accord's hood close at all so you'll probably need a manifold off a B16 or a B18.

    I say get your A16A1 assembly traded in for a 'Kaabli' one and maybe work on that since it won't be anything brand new either but surely better than your current A16A1 engine.
    City SX8 - Civic ES - Accord SiR CF4 F20B
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    Can you please share where I can meet mithu khan? His cell no?

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    Has Enyone One Noticed That The OP Wrote ON CNG His Car Gives 70K On 55 KG Cylinder?

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    Hello bro,

    You have mentioned the same scenario which I have with my accord 1988, I have same Auto transmission, 55kg cylinder, on avergage in city it gives 65 to 70km. And on long routes it touches 100km.
    And for petrol in city it gives 8km (4km if you drive in streets and stop so many times).
    On long it gives 11km (I travelled from Lahore to islamabad last week on petrol and 3000rs fuel each side).
    And pickup is not good, specially on CNG it is very slow pickup.
    I checked with mechanic, he said you need to change clutch, pressure plates.
    If I want good pickup then D2 is best. Reaches 80km on d2 and on d3 max 100km. But D4 is for regular drive.
    Don't sell the car, you would find such luxury features in any otherr car, fuel consumption for 1600cc engine cannot be better than this in old carby engines.
    And I have checked with my friends accord which is manual, pickup is very good no doubt and car power feels better than automatic transmission. But consumption is same.
    Lakin jo sukun auto ka rush may hai woh manual ka to nai.
    Get your engine compression test if it does not require overhaul then just fix the leakage and tune up engine, you're good to go. Don't swap engine eith you will further get into new troubles.

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    Dear bro.
    I also have accord 88 with me which i bought 3 years ago. Car was in VG condition but was giving the same problems as mentioned by you. After discussions with my friends and my mechanic I replaced its original carborated engine with D16A engine. Now I am 100% satisfied with my car's performance. It gives me 140+ on 55 cylinder and on long root more than 160. On cng easily goes to 100 without any jurking, bubbling or anyother problem. Would suggest u to replace the engine of ur car as these old carborated engines cannot perform well on CNG.
    .. Dont Walk ..

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    rohaan,

    the forward canted B20A that fits the CA accord only requires one mount bracket to be remade, the rear one. the front, crossmember has the provision for the hydraulic mount already. It drops in. The wiring is very simple but laid out like a maze and all vacuum bits n bobs are in the big vacuum box. - The CRV engine does not fit.

    NOW back to the post of the 4 km/lit A16A

    FIRSTLY

    ensure the timing belt is 100% correctly aligned - crank TDC mark on flex plate seen from hole in bell housing, cam TDC marks are on the pulley. tension the belt correctly. Remove the valve cover and set the tappets now, (0.17mm intake, 0.25mm exhaust) do not try to eyeball the cam, use the pulley marks to ensure the cam is at correct position.

    Remove the distributor, very very very very very carefully remove the ignitor and pulse generator assemblies and put aside, remove the vacuum advance, remove the plate, remove the clip lock from the rear of the distributor- ensuring you make sure to take a picture of the installed postion in relation to the rotor pointing to cyl 1, There is a mark on the housing and the dogs that engage the cam.

    Gently undo the screw from the middle of the shaft after removing the rubber plug. Undo the springs and weights carefully and remove the cam, clean and grease it up with long life high temperature wheel bearing grease. Assemble it back and use a new oil seal in its housing. Ensure the centrifugal advance snaps back when moved by hand. Ensure the vacuum advance is good and holds vacuum. Route the main vacuum pipes correctly, there are a few only, one to the distributor, one to the powervalve in the carburettor, one to the dashpot, one to the air cleaner thermostat, one to the A/C idle up.

    Use OE BPR6EY-11 spark plugs set to 1.1 mm gap. Check the PCV, spray with some carb cleaner and make sure its pipe that reaches up from the oil sump is not cracked - otherwise your engine will never idle correct. Its a very expensive piece of pipe. Its about 1.2 inch from one end and 0.25 inch from the other.

    Install a thermostat valve and bleed the system from the bleeder.

    on petrol check the carburettor level through the inspection glass, it should be exactly in between the level. Make sure they are no leaks and all linkages move smoothly. If someone has poked wires or stiff items through it then the carb is probably crap now, the jets are not removeable, they are hammered in place, removing requires a special slide hammer.

    for hard shift, adjust the kickdown cable so you dont have any freeplay in the lever and that both cables move simultaneously.
    ZRS - Zulfiqar Racing Systems ..... - professionals at work - at crackwheels.com

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    Xulfiqar,

    Thanks for such detailed response, I will discuss all the stuff which you mentioned with my mechanic and hopefully it will give me some reasonable average on petrol as well. Personally I don't want to swap engine and I will definitely try this on weekend and update you about my progress.

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    iagr8,

    Please tell me that how much it cost you to get swap D16A engine. Also I think this is EFI engine, how much was the cost for computer (ECU+Wiring).

    Because I am targeting something above 120, Also please suggest some mechanic in ISB/Rwp to which I can consult with.

    Also can you tell me that why you did not go for D15B Dual Vtec Engine, this engine is popular for being economical in normal mode and very powerful in vtec-1, vtec-2 mode. But I am not sure about its performance on CNG.

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    sulemanb

    I agree with your point that this is really a luxury car in cheap price and I don't want to sell it. Swapping the engine always reduce the the re-sale price of the car but if swap is done carefully with good mechanic your car can get better then ever. Selling this car will be my last option so I don't mind swapping, but if original engine can give me results (i.e. 130+ on 55KG Cylinder), there is no point in swapping.

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    rohaansaeed,

    Thanks for your detailed response. How much average should I expect if i get A20A3/4, they are fuel injected ones. Also can you share that how much they cost on average with transmission.

    My mechanic is telling that your transmission is also 'farigh'

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    Quote Originally Posted by sirdneo View Post
    rohaansaeed,

    Thanks for your detailed response. How much average should I expect if i get A20A3/4, they are fuel injected ones. Also can you share that how much they cost on average with transmission.

    My mechanic is telling that your transmission is also 'farigh'
    First think about working on your current engine, these engines were built to last. Follow Xulfiqar's guideline and implement it. If that doesn't work out, only then think about a swap.

    The last I checked, an A20A4 was available here for around 50k with transmission.
    The mileage would be around 9km/l

    Mechanics will tell you that your transmission is "faarigh" when they can't figure out what's the main cause and instead of diagnosing, they take the desi route and slam in a "Kaabli" transmission. Trace out the actual issue first, only then trade in your transmission for a kaabli one.
    City SX8 - Civic ES - Accord SiR CF4 F20B
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    I have driven this car on its original perfect condition engine and it runs like some new model vti civic. So do no underestimate its original engine. Ur gearbox must be faulty n engine needs some work that's why u are facing issues, secondly in my opinion D16A (PGM-Fi) engine suits accords engine bay and torque. But do consult with experts.
    In short swapping is always an option but first try to fix what u already have then go for any swapping if you're not satisfied.

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    the original A16A1 and its original mated transmission are very well matched to pull the car in mid range, 2200 rpm - 4000 rpm. You can actually feel the engine applying the torque in that range. with automatic trans the shifts are only felt as a surge (if the torque limiter mount is good)

    I can bet you that your engine's distributor and compression timing are way off causing it to work real lethargic.

    If you want to push in a D/B series engine, you will have to chop the right side chassis leg for the transmission to fit, you also need to weld in a transmission mount on that side as the original engine on this car has very odd mounts.

    The transmission in this car does not have any mounts above it, The weight of the transmission is taken up the little rectangle mount under the car tucked inside the crossmember brace and also split across the two bottom engine mounts, The timing mount is also a weight bearing mount - the only torque limiter is the long rod type mount that is fastened to the firewall, It stops the engine moving forward and backward under torque. D/B series engines dont utilise such arrangements and become a pain in the a** in this car. If you measure the car and engine, you will find its actually placed very cleverly to be weighted in the centre of the car. This is also one reason this exact same suspension setup and feel could not be carried 100% to the civic/integra platforms.
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    ^ and thus if all else fails and you're forced to carry out an engine swap, an A20 will do justice otherwise sticking to the A16 will be the best option.

    Butchering in a D/B series engine in this car is murder.
    City SX8 - Civic ES - Accord SiR CF4 F20B
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    Thanks for valuable feedback from all of you. I will be visiting mechanic on this weekend and first try to fix stuff as mentioned by xulfiqar. I will share upadates soon, keep in touch.

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    Perfect solution.
    Xulfiqar bhai can u tell this A16a1 or A18a engine has a return fuel pipes from carburattor? Cause my car is burning fuel like hell. And carburattor is fillup up with fuel when I open and peek inside.
    My fuel pump is not OEM, I don't know which car fuel pump is it. But on 1 step ignition it starts to suck petrol so quicky. I have checked by removing pipe.
    Mechanic couldn't find any fuel return pipes, he said "iss model may return wala scene nai hai" I am like are u serious!! He is not even 1% sure. Plz advice.

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