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Thread: My 1988 Accord is giving me 4KM/L on petrol and 70K on 55KG Cylender

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    Default My 1988 Accord is giving me 4KM/L on petrol and 70K on 55KG Cylender

    Dear Pakwheelers

    I have just purchased 1988 Accord, it is giving me 4KM/L on petrol and 70K on 55KG Cylinder. Although I generally dont push full accelator. Also engine is leaking oil from tapit cover. Someone has sealed it with silicon kind of stuff instead of proper seal.

    My car has automatic transmission and it gives jerk when gear shifts. In D4 car moves like an old man, in d3 i generally go up 60 with half padel and on full padel maximum go around 80. In d2 I can go around 100.

    I have contacted few mechanics and they all said that swap the engine otherwise you won't get power and economy.

    So after discussion with 2 different mechanics and searching on internet here are the options:-

    1- Only change the automatic transmission with automatic to manual (it will cost around 20K in ISB), no guaranty that it will improve pick and mileage as per my expectation.
    2- Repair current engine for oil leaks and replace ring/piston. Not sure about price in ISB.
    3- Replace engine and transmission (It will cost around 100K for honda db15 dual vtec+transmission) But I have heard that 4efe (Toyota) is also good option for both fuel and economy. Should I replace the engine+transmission or not?
    4- Sell the car . Personally I don't want to sell the car unless it is the last option.

    Thanks in advance to all .

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    there is no fuel return pipe, the original small fuel pump has a built in bypass system when the supply pipe fills up with about 3 psi pressure. if you replaced the pump with an EFI car pump its supply pressure is too high and has no bypass system hence will flood the carburettor with the super high pressure.

    the carby fuel pump is about 3 psi while the EFI one is about 45 psi.

    The original fuel pump relay is housed under the dashboard fusebox (its a white rectangle relay) and works for 2 seconds when you switch on the ignition and then works permanently when the ignition coil registers rpm signal. Do not hot wire it to permanent, The original setup is for safety purpose meaning that the fuel pump will stop if the engine shuts off (e.g. in a crash, flood, ignition fault etc)
    ZRS - Zulfiqar Racing Systems ..... - professionals at work - at crackwheels.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by sirdneo View Post
    Dear Pakwheelers

    I have just purchased 1988 Accord, it is giving me 4KM/L on petrol and 70K on 55KG Cylinder. Although I generally dont push full accelator. Also engine is leaking oil from tapit cover. Someone has sealed it with silicon kind of stuff instead of proper seal.

    My car has automatic transmission and it gives jerk when gear shifts. In D4 car moves like an old man, in d3 i generally go up 60 with half padel and on full padel maximum go around 80. In d2 I can go around 100.

    I have contacted few mechanics and they all said that swap the engine otherwise you won't get power and economy.

    So after discussion with 2 different mechanics and searching on internet here are the options:-

    1- Only change the automatic transmission with automatic to manual (it will cost around 20K in ISB), no guaranty that it will improve pick and mileage as per my expectation.
    2- Repair current engine for oil leaks and replace ring/piston. Not sure about price in ISB.
    3- Replace engine and transmission (It will cost around 100K for honda db15 dual vtec+transmission) But I have heard that 4efe (Toyota) is also good option for both fuel and economy. Should I replace the engine+transmission or not?
    4- Sell the car . Personally I don't want to sell the car unless it is the last option.

    Thanks in advance to all .
    before reaching a verdict u need to be dead sure what areas u need to rectify, answer these questions i might be of help (i'll explain later)

    -- are u sure engine is weak ? .. did any compression test or is it consuming oil ?
    -- is the gear giving u any perticular problem (except the jerk u mentioned ) like missing a shift .. extra-ordinary noise

    changing ring/piston is the oldest trick of mechanics then at the end u change everything ... i will explain this as well

    in my opinion u don't have much knowledge of car engine yet u bought an accord out of your passion (nothing wrong) but now u need some expert opinion to proceed or you'll end up spending a lot more than required

    contact me some time 0333-5109707 then plan a vist let me check ur car for its mechanical issues and resale price assessment ... plus i'll guide u to a few mechanics who might help u out in cheap .. with car in the condition u mentioned don't think of spending big it will not repay unless the exterior is extra-ordinary ..

    an odd engine like toyota will kill its resale
    "You have not lived today until you have done something for someone who can never repay you."

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    @rohan
    buddy how r u remeber its me we met at new imtiaz maroon accord 88 u were driving sx8 reving it........i admired ur cars angels
    any wayz back to the topic
    @poster i bought an 88 accord 3 months ago restored it interms of exterior brand new japanese suspension each n everythng was changed... installed new rims n tyres.... complete new wiring was done made each an every option working
    bought the car at 250 spended 150 on it might be more as i dun remeber......
    1 thng that i must say i have drivin tons of cars but the steering that this thng has, has no match.......
    coming to the engine i m also getting 70 kms on full gas of rs 57- orr 590 but ac is on every time to me i thnk itas good considering 1600cc carb engine n hell it toooo old too... on petrol m getting same 4km/l
    engine condition is same giving white smoke decreasing oil packing is leaking no pick up at all mine is manual.....
    now wht i had in mind was to swap b16 in it as i had plans for a project on it... but now i came to knw that it has following issues at the moment.
    1 dick breaks/disks have had there time have to change right side wheel bearing is making noise..... @rohan
    buddy i m getting complete both hubs including disk, cliper,wheel bearing both for 14k let me knw is it correct as my car has 0 breaking.....
    ur words or suggestion for break wld be a huge help buddy thanx a million...
    (*)Theres always a light at the end of a tunnel, just pray its not a train(*)

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    Thanks naveed, i will definately call you today

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    duplicate

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    I also have visited a good old mechanic in G10 markaz, he did some tuning of engine on CNG and now i will check the milage , also there was some oil leak near distributed, he inserted new seal on that. Also he said that engine is in good nik and no need to adjust the timing/advance at the moment. He said come to me next week and share your experience, then he will adjust advance/timing if required.

    Also while adjusting petrol setting, first he reduced the idle RPM which were quite high, but my RPM is not working so he can't tell that how much RPM is reduced but engine sound gets quite low and no vibration.

    He also adjusted carburator settings, but it was disaster, because my carburator was leaking petrol, he said that for this he need seals which i need to brought from rawalpindi . Also there is a value through which we can control fuel input in carburator that was sealed with epoxy, and he said he can break the appoxy, but it is not a good idea as it can cause further leaks

    He said I have two options,
    1- Change the carburator and find some kabuli version
    2- Find seals and install them

    Unfortunatly i did not tak the picutres of carburator, but my carb looks almost same as mentioend in D15B3 carb. ANd there is a yellow thing in picutre, this whole part was covered with epoxy, also usky thora peechy hi ik nut hy spring ky sath laga howa waha sy petrol leak ho reha tha.

    Also can you people share what speed you can expect from this car with A16A1, my car easily goes upto 60KM but after that acceleration is quite slow even if i press full padel as well.

    He said This car is not very powerful with 1.6 genuine engine running on CNG when it has its orignal engine, however on long routs it can go upto 120,140.

    Perhaps why i feel it under power because previously i have a coure and that runs like a rocket (all genuine, no alteration).

    please share your experience incase you have orignal 1.6 liter engine installed

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    bro you need to fix your carburettor first then check mileage and performance, i have same 88 model auto transmission, you cannot expect pickup like manual cars even small manual cars, but it easily gies upto 150 160km on long routes, and if you drive it with D2 first and overdrive it till RMP reaches 5 then shift to D3 and do the same then you can easily go above 120+
    my car pickup is dead slow, but if i do this way in my D2 car goes to 80km and then i shift to d3 and it goes to 120 then i shift to d4 and it goes on and oooon....
    i feel that clutch plates needs some work to be done for better pickup as i have driven manual one and pickup is quite impressive with genuine a16a1 engine. dont worry just get your carby fixed.

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    the bit that dumba$$ mechanics apply epoxy to on the carburettor is the float adjustment screw. If for any reason the float adjustment leaks (it does if disturbed after 10 or more years) then its mandatory to take off the carburettor hat, use a punch and hammer to drive out the pin of the float (take care not to fracture the float). unscrew all the way out, install new O rings and reinstall.

    You can buy a carburettor O ring kit for a AHL 1995 civic EX 1.5, you can use nearly all of the O rings and the pump diaphragm but not the gaskets, you need to reuse or remake new gaskets (seals or jane in rwp). Make sure the fuel pump pressure is correct and adjust the fuel level to the centre of the window provided on the carburettor. Make sure that the secondary throttle is working as the opening diaphragm can fail which causes the engine to run very poor at high accelerator position.
    ZRS - Zulfiqar Racing Systems ..... - professionals at work - at crackwheels.com

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    I have bought O ring kit of civic and for gaskets mechanic used silicon . Mechanic did not removed the epoxy and said that there is a risk that if he break epoxy and there are some leaks inside then carburetor will be mess. He said to me that drive the car as it is and there is a fair chance that you will get decent average, if still you did not get the average then i will break the epoxy.

    He also reduced IDLE rpm for both CNG and petrol. Now my car pick is reasonably good and I can easily touch 60KM in aprox 15 seconds on D3 on petrol and CNG.


    I did not done compression testing but mechanic is saying that engine seems it has lots of life in it and culprit seems transmission. However he also adviced me that don't get too excited and start throwing money. It is a old car, best option will be buy 2008 Accord or only fix/replace those items which are necessary.

    After all the work petrol needle does not seems to drop so rapidly as it use to be i think i am getting alot better average compared to 4KM/L on petrol and engine vibration are almost gone when neutural.

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    @sulemanb

    Mechanic said that clutch plates seems week and engine is still in good nik. However he suggested that engine was running on low oil so change the oil+oil filter after every one thousand KM at least 2 times, then bring the car to him again. Most likely engine will drain all the slug through oil and its performance will improve. Incase this don't help then he will open transmission and check that.

    I have put new transmission oil in car when I bought it.

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    @Xulfiqar thanks again , people like you make the pakwheels a really usefull forum

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    scrape or grind away that epoxy and remove the float, its very easy to do. Replace the O rings of that screw. Silicone RTV does not work with petroleum joints. It will rot and remove itself.

    To test the transmission, from standstill accelerate the car under full throttle, you should see it shift at rpm redline, or atleast feel like it shifts at redline if your rpm meter does not work. When it shifts you should not feel it slip. And the acceleration should be smooth. If not make sure the carburettor secondary throttle is opening, if it does not open you will have poor acceleration and high consumption. Also verify the distributor centrifugal and vacuum advance are working. If they dont the engine will work like its a mehran engine in an accord body.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirdneo View Post
    I also have visited a good old mechanic in G10 markaz, he did some tuning of engine on CNG and now i will check the milage , also there was some oil leak near distributed, he inserted new seal on that. Also he said that engine is in good nik and no need to adjust the timing/advance at the moment. He said come to me next week and share your experience, then he will adjust advance/timing if required.

    He also adjusted carburator settings, but it was disaster, because my carburator was leaking petrol, he said that for this he need seals which i need to brought from rawalpindi . Also there is a value through which we can control fuel input in carburator that was sealed with epoxy, and he said he can break the appoxy, but it is not a good idea as it can cause further leaks
    that (marked in red ) is a dangerous territory .. petrol leakage needs a spark to create fire .. there is very good mechanic in G-8, give me a call and i'll tell u the address
    "You have not lived today until you have done something for someone who can never repay you."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Naweed View Post
    that (marked in red ) is a dangerous territory .. petrol leakage needs a spark to create fire .. there is very good mechanic in G-8, give me a call and i'll tell u the address
    The nice bit is that the Accord 3rd gen carby somewhat right above the alternator. NICE SPARKY - FIRE! - cooling fan blowing fresh air on the fire... YAY tikka time.
    ZRS - Zulfiqar Racing Systems ..... - professionals at work - at crackwheels.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xulfiqar View Post
    The nice bit is that the Accord 3rd gen carby somewhat right above the alternator. NICE SPARKY - FIRE! - cooling fan blowing fresh air on the fire... YAY tikka time.
    A neighbors mehran burnt to ashes in a similar case ... he had a petrol leakage and a plug with has a slip thread to compensate an adapter had been put in place .. i saw the setup two days prior to the incident .. warned him but he stated that it has been working fine for quite sometime and since he's busy at office he will get it done later

    next we heard, it got burnt .. as per the neighbor; he turned the ignition and car engine caught fire, by the time he got out the heat had bent the bonnet lock and it wouldn't open in a matter of minutes fire was all over .. he sold the documents for some 50 or 60k and rest was all trash .. luckily his family members pooled up some money and he got a better car
    "You have not lived today until you have done something for someone who can never repay you."

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    I can understand this can be very dangerous, leaking petrol is not always a good thing. I have got it fixed by applying some epoxy on fuel pump and carburator is now completely sealed

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    Naweed,

    I will call you during weekend and we will have a detailed discussion on scenario. Thanks for your support.

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    Just dont run it on petrol for the time being till you get the seals replaced. these things harden with passage of time and after installing cng people forget to use the car on petrol which sucks the moisture out of the seals and they harden. It has happened in my car and i had to change the seals and being an accord i had to visit the plaza area where all the car dealers are located and its quite far

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    I still cant understand the 15 second acceleration. The engine is majorly out of tune. Does it sound rorty when you accelerate. (rorty is like a rough mechanical sound)

    The engine is supposed to sound rorty when its correctly tuned and set. It also should accelerate very freely when you are testing it in neutral - the rpm should want to rise very fast. That is the centrifugal advance trying to advance the timing.

    15 seconds to 60 km/h is very very very very very very poor for this engine/car.
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    make sure the engine has a thermostat valve - if not then the transmission will also run cold which will cause harsh shift and bad running. The transmission is both cooled and heated by the coolant temperature from the cooler in the radiator.

    The PCV valve is in the centre of the intake manifold with a U shaped pipe, do not pull the PCV itself as its mounting pipe will break off because it hardens with age. Clean it with carb cleaner by spraying in it. Its mounting pipe is a Honda only part as one end of the pipe is very large and is tightened to the sump with a pipe clamp and one end of it is very narrow and holds the PCV valve in place, Any sort of leak at this pipe will cause the engine to run very lean as its a big vacuum leak to the manifold. It will also cause the engine oil to become tar in 2000 kms or less. It will also cause severe engine failure if not attended to. Also make sure you are using the Accord oil filter, its 100mm tall (its only 1 inch taller than the civic filter) It has a bypass system built into it that causes the filter to bypass oil till oil pressure is built up. This provides good lubrication on startup. The civic (shorter) filter does not have this function and can cause the crank to wear out from dry running. Ask a good filter shop or Honda spare parts shop for it. Ask them for the original Accord oil filter, the VIC dealer in Plaza used to have them in stock. The original one had the model prefix of PH3 in it - the part no. is 15400-PH3-004 and is 100mm or about 4 inches tall. I used to buy it in a box of Donaldson - the Donaldson part no. was P2502067. Very good quality filters. Qaim filters also used to make them.

    In the aircleaner box is the breather oil mist catch. Its the little square box with 2 screws on the side of the airbox where the breather pipe from the tappet cover connects. undo it and you will find a piece of foam type material wash it in petrol and dry it then install back. Make sure you feel air rushing out of the breather pipe at idle speed and it should not have air at about 2000 rpm - if it does then your PCV is not working or the engine has compression problem.
    ZRS - Zulfiqar Racing Systems ..... - professionals at work - at crackwheels.com

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