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Thread: 87 Accord Suggestion

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    Default 87 Accord Suggestion

    I am planning to buy a 87 or 88 Accord. Next i have plan to change its color to Metallic Red or Blue (Currently Seen in Honda City). I would Plan to do Suspension Overhaul and Engine Swap.

    Engines for consideration are
    1. D15
    2. D16
    3. B18
    4. B20

    I Prefer it to be bolt on Swap.

    I Suppose following calculations

    Engine Cost : 55K
    Engine Old : -20K
    Paint Job : 25k
    Suspension : 15K
    AC and Other Misc : 30K

    total Amount : Approx 100,000

    Questions:
    1. After spending this ammount would i be able to get trouble free car?
    2. The decision to Buy Accord is worth it?
    3. Where do you get Good Engines in Lahore?
    4. Is cost realistic ?
    5. The car would max cost me in 400,000 but again it has no resale so it would go for 3 max. Is it worth to get that car?
    6. Any Preferred workshop for paint and mechanical job?


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    @Xulfiqar a logical statement there. Another abnormal phenomenon is when ac is on for aproximately 20 minutes and i drive 1 km car starts getting heavy. In D1 you press full throttle the car would not cross 30 and RPM below 2. As soon I turn off AC Car becomes a rocket.

    Can you enlighten with some tips for checking AC Compressor? as i got Qabli one so dono know how to make sure AC guy is not bluffing me

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    quite hard to believe you cannot accelerate under full throttle. it does require some rpm to move though, but it should move very quick. What I am reading is that you are in D4 and press full throttle from standstill with A/C running and your car refuses to go beyond 30 km/h

    very hard to believe. It should accelerate to rpm redline (about 55 km/h) before shifting to 2
    ZRS - Zulfiqar Racing Systems ..... - professionals at work - at crackwheels.com

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    Yes it was also hard to believe for a 1800 CC car. My car is at workshop where mechanic is tuning it. Other than that i think its hard to have EFI car with bunch of these sort of mechanics.

    Also I wana ask following questions too

    1. According to F18B VTEC specifications

    • Max power: 138HP (103 kW) @ 6100 rpms
    • Max torque: 124 lb?ft (168 N m) @ 5000 rpms
      But my car never makes above 5000 RPM (RPM Fuel cut) when not in gear. and in gear it just changes gears quickly.

      Would upload shifting rations later.

    2. My Fuel Gauge does not work. What can i look into?
    3. Observed yesterday that sometime with jerk Temp gauge suddenly shoots to max and with taping to dash it comes to normal?
    4. I know electronics and embedded systems. Is it safe for me to open and check the meter?
    5. I have a feel that my Speedometer is giving false reading as it quickly rises and when i am at 80 honda cd 70 crosses me that easily (you would think what a standardization to check speedometer lolx)

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    its normal for the ECU to rev cut when the car is not moving (no VSS signal) but it should freely rev when the car is moving.

    This engine cannot be tuned, so whatever your mechanics are doing is just clean this and that and praying something works. Firstly I would suggest you get the entire engine wiring checked for proper connection and then go about extracting errors from it.

    Is the transmission original to the car? or has it been replaced with some other unit?
    ZRS - Zulfiqar Racing Systems ..... - professionals at work - at crackwheels.com

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    btw the A/C wiring actually goes through the ECU, the original honda wiring is that the A/C compressor signal goes into the ECU and the ECU then gives out its own 12V signal to start the relay for the A/C compressor clutch and also cooling fans. The ECU also takes care of timing advance and rpm adjustment when the A/C is running.

    Make sure the A/C is wired correctly. It can become a royal pain later. anyway, regardless of everything the engine should be able to get the car moving very very quickly, start with checking the fuel pressure first.
    ZRS - Zulfiqar Racing Systems ..... - professionals at work - at crackwheels.com

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    My mechanic checked and unfortunately he has no clue what is going on. Regarding AC. The electrician installed a relay to radiator fans and installed a universal thermostat switch in cooling coil. Now AC is rocking.

    I have Three major problems. I would take guidance from you in a sequence.
    Most critical one.

    When car is a fresh start its a beast. However no matter on CNG or on PETROL after walking some 3-4 km car keeps dying. and a time comes when car has power less than Mehran. Switching the car for 2-3 minutes makes it recover again. Also i do not think its head gaskit is blown because engine is just sound less. Its Injectors are bypassed by emulator or advancer green color box. I found few wires are broken. perhaps that may be the cause? @Xulfiqar any clue?

    My mechanic also tried to rotate the distributor for changing timing but failed because it had no adjustments it was fixed.

    I have the engine shown in pic. I have no wires connecting the sensor in red circle. WHat is that for? and should i wire it?87 Accord Suggestion -1251474

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    That is the o2 sensor, it will show a permanent check engine light if its not connected and the ECU will always stay in limp mode (high fuel consumption + poor running + no VTEC)

    Did your mechanic never check the fault codes on the ECU or is the CEL not connected to the ECU?
    ZRS - Zulfiqar Racing Systems ..... - professionals at work - at crackwheels.com

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    No mechanic never bothered to do so. but some one told me to goto Iqbal Electrition in chuburji as he is known person for this. Today i got CNG Tuned. Car is much better but on CNG its like driving cultus. When i turn on AC it further drops its 1.8 it should not feel AC kicking in i guess. I think i should get codes so i can discuss them here.

    One possible reason for car not being aggresive i think may be
    1. No Connection of Primiary Oxygen sensor
    2. Broken Secondary O2 sensor after catalytic converter (happened when i went for car wash)

    Yes Engine Check light is permanent ON. I was looking for ODB2 connector but did not find near break perhaps it was a swap so no body cared to put it there. I hope something can be done.
    Would inform you later about it.

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    originally this car did not come with an OBD connector, it had a two pin connector to read codes from the lamp itself.

    To install the OBD connector one has to first find a connector and wire up the correct lines to it. Can you make sure that your ECU is actually the correct one for this engine. If it is then you need to get someone to make you an OBD DLC so you can also tap into further diagnostics.

    I always suggest to stay away from such "swapped" cars unless you are very savvy with car electrics and fiddly bits.
    ZRS - Zulfiqar Racing Systems ..... - professionals at work - at crackwheels.com

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    Found the ECU. Not sure if its the real F18B ECU or not but internet says that its F23A VTEC ecu and has odb 2 connections. I Took the picture and is attached. I have a question that

    1. Does ECU takes in notice the readings from Oxygen Sensors when car is on CNG or ignores them or its being emulated?
    2. Is it necessary to attach Primary Oxygen Sensor and Secondary Oxygen sensor (didnt find it near exhaust but people say there are two o2 sensors)
    87 Accord Suggestion -1252924

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    yes goto Iqbal Electrician in chuburji, he is master to check car check light issues and computer issues.

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    this ECU is of the 2.3 litre Accord. Ensure the wiring harness is routed correctly, as some pins may mismatch.

    The O2 sensor is always monitored, the emulator is only to block the power feed to injectors and sometimes also to provide a quench ground for the circuit. Without O2 sensor activity of even faulty heater circuit of O2 sensor, the ECU will never allow VTEC, and the car will also run very bad.

    Wire up the ECU correctly and completely using proper relays for the main and fuel pump. Then find a DLC and get the electrician to wire it up correctly too, Dont let him nitto tape it. Proper solder joints are required.

    Once the entire DLC is wired up, connect a proper OBD2 scan tool and take live O2 data to verify that the O2 is actually working, If its not you will have to buy a brand new sensor, used ones are usually junk. If your ECU is throwing codes for missing catalyst sensor, then you also need a secondary sensor and CAT or get a tuning shop to make you a secondary sensor emulator.
    ZRS - Zulfiqar Racing Systems ..... - professionals at work - at crackwheels.com

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    I am on it............. @Xulfiqar is there any hope that if i keep on making small things that come up in the car; the car would be beast once again? basically i am trying to make it reliable car with everything working. I never go for emulators because if company has installed anything its for purpose. Who knows that the people who installed the engine in this car had already disconnected the primary O2 sensor and they may have bypassed it. but i am determined to bring it back to default. would goto Iqbal and make him do what ever needs to be done.

    By the way i have never seen a guy who does soldering and apply shrinking sleeves (i personally do to what ever thing i wire in my other car). but ill do it my self there; ill make him tell me a if i am his assistant ill solder and shrink sleeve the wires

    @
    sulemanb can you tell me where he can be found? heard he is back side of suria azeem hospital

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    This accord also came with an F20A in its Si version which is a non VTEC engine but is very good, a bit paagal too. imagine it as a destroked H22A with no VTEC. It surely pulls like a wild maniac and it revs very very freely.

    The best part is that its very cheap to buy if you find it.
    ZRS - Zulfiqar Racing Systems ..... - professionals at work - at crackwheels.com

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    @Xulfiqar if oxygen sensors are monitored during CNG then how does ECU Monitors Lean and RIch condition? The condition that i told you about that my car is not picking up throttle has not shown up since they have attached emulators wires to TP Sensor. and some other. They tried to adjust timing but failed as my distributor was fixed one. Also today CNG Guy told me that your occasional unstable RPM and low power is due to leaked spark plug wires. Now i have to goto bilal ganj to get the wires

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    the ecu sends high signal to the injectors to adjust fuel and also adjusts ignition timing when it sees the lean condition. As the emulator is fooling the ECU the engine keeps on firing as you are feeding it CNG.

    the problem with it is that CNG volume is only variable by the throttle opening.

    the advancer is also just fooling the ECU to show a higher output from the MAP and TPS.

    If the O2 sensor is not connected the ECU drops everything and goes to a default program with set parameters. This mode is there to just get the car into the workshop. At this point of time you need it connected otherwise forget about VTEC or anything peppy.

    If you search my threads and posts I always tell everyone who wants swaps to either do it 100% correctly or dont do it at all. The problem you are facing is faced by 100% of all swap candidates in Pakistan.

    The only success stories are the people who actually did the work themselves. Its not that bad if you know what you are doing.

    btw did your CNG guy test the wires before issuing his statement of the spark wires?
    ZRS - Zulfiqar Racing Systems ..... - professionals at work - at crackwheels.com

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    No he did not checked the wires. He tested them by pulling each one out and then facing its end (which connects with plug head) away from engine head and bringing the top body near it. It gave tick tick noise. did same for all. How ever after his diagnosis the car did missing all the way.

    When i came home i checked the resistance it was ranging from 6k Ohm to 10 K ohm on short to long wire. I said ok lets change it i have to buy O2 sensor anyway. ill bring them too to rule out them.

    By education I am software engineer and by hobby i am embedded system guy and by nature i am damn curious about things that are buggy. so i can understand how these sensors work and how ECU reads them. This is the reason i hopefully see my self to be able to get out of the nose dive i am in with this car.

    However i did find primary O2 sensor but not secondary O2 sensor that is after catalytic converter.

    My next task is to install O2 sensor + Plug cables + Get Electrical Checkup and trace odb2 DLC from bilal ganj if its not expensive

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    Yes bro if you come on the chuburji round about there is yasir broast or lahore broast, and there are some streets going beside, ask any workshop about iqbal electrician.

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    nice - then its most probably a hobby car, go for it. Just dont become like me, I usually tear it up to bits and rebuild it again.
    ZRS - Zulfiqar Racing Systems ..... - professionals at work - at crackwheels.com

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    @Xulfiqar the day before today i was having discussion with my close pal who is also a motorist by hobby and have 87 accord for project car. Said where do you get the diagnostic info which is never heard of mechanics. Then i siad Xulfiqar the great we he wont believe and then i showed him your threads and we both came to a mutual question; How come one individual become so much well versed in cars not just one car (usually the one person have and he knows each bit) how does he do that....................... its still a myth.

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