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Thread: Slowest Suzuki Alto VXR in Karachi?????

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    Default Slowest Suzuki Alto VXR in Karachi?????

    Dear All,
    I need all kinds of advises you can offer. I am planning to drive Karachi to Islamabad in Alto VXR 2010. I went to Suzuki Macca motors, they did 40 thousand KM inspection, over hauled clutch plate(pedal was hard to press), changed some hose pipes and changed weak ac and fan belt , they did tappet adjustment and charged me 41,000+ bill which I can also attach for forum viewing. I installed brand new tires Dunlop 165/70R12 77T. Mr. Irfan senior technician in Macca motors looks after my car.
    i took car for test, the car became very smooth but car didn't go beyond 80-100km speed. The car is very good in acceleration both in CNG and petrol, it some time is difficult to guess if its running on gas or petrol. I went again 3 times to Macca motors, they rechecked everything the firing angle degree 10/20 for gas/petrol with timing gun, they said advancer is running good. i have carburettor car with advancer installed and CNG is company fitted. Tires were free, brakes were free, no noise coming from car and car is smooth but cannot go beyond 80-100km. Yesterday I again visited macca motors they sprayed can of carburettor cleaner and i took the car for 300km+ journey Karachi to Hyderabad and back to Karachi. the maximum I was able to touch with 2 person with Petrol and AC off was 101-103km/hr and the same result is with CNG. however car is very good in acceleration. I showed my car to local mechanic he also got failed.He removed the air filter in the end and let the carburettor open freely. Still I wasn't able to cross 100km/hr barrier with good acceleration in AC off with petrol. Today I again went to macca motors they sprayed can of carburettor cleaner and still result was same. Macca motors asked me to goto Gul plaza to Mahmood carburettor wala. Over there I saw a man came from Suzuki south and handed over 2 carburettor for servicing. Mahmood sb. said all Suzuki companies give us these jobs so we are very good in it.He give car a great race in neutral gear and saw high speed butterfly valve opening up and told me your carburettor is okay.Car gives no humming, jerks, misfire. Even Exhaust output is very good and water comes out from exhaust. We bought this car year back and I had took it in CNG 140-150km/hr and in petrol 165km/hr with AC off. My younger brother had driven it for a year all in petrol and now I have taken it he bought swift.After getting the car I didn't raced it up. i checked that 40k km inspection was due and I had to take it to another city, so that is why I had done all these works on car. Before giving car to Suzuki Macca I wasn't sure if it could cross barrier of 100km/hr or not. Anyway, the carburettor guy charged me 2300 and serviced it and I took the car on superhighway tonight in both direction so wind doesn't matter in final speed, I wasn't able to cross the 100km barrier.Even mehran 93 beated me with speed on super highway. Macca motors said your speedometer could be wrong but all cars were overtaking me. I need help, i have got sick and tired in 2 week and had spent more than 60 thousand rupees which includes new tires and all I get is 80 kilo meter per hour speed. My name is Syed Umar Farooq and number is 0300-2478118. i am waiting for car to get ready and want to take it to Isb as soon as possible, If this car get fixed with your help.I will leave for Isb in next hour.

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    Yes clutch plate is culprit. Those morons ruined ur car & then charged 61k for that.

    BTW on a side note; I recently changed engine assembly of my liana, changed its tyres & completely overhauled its suspension in less than 70K including labor, oil change & everything.

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    Slowest Suzuki Alto VXR in Karachi????? -1257890Slowest Suzuki Alto VXR in Karachi????? -1257891
    I will upload all the car parts that were changed with new one. You can then see the conditions of old parts. @ekdrifter @saadalex
    I told car advisor at Suzuki Macca Mr.Ameen, he refused to accept that clutch was slipping. Also Mr.Irfan refused that too who is a senior technician. I have driven Baleno 1998 thirteen years back whose clutch got fried, due to excessive burn out. I remember when the car use to climb bridges its RPM increases while speed remains the same, it becomes more significant when pedal is pressed hard and engine starts to revs. This is my experience of clutch slipping, I don't think there is CLUTCH slipping in this Suzuki ALTO VXR beyond 100Km/hr. The car RPM doesn't increases that much when I am trying hard to go beyond 100Km/hr to give me the feeling that clutch is being slipped, when I press clutch at this speed the engine RPM increases and it shows there is alot more RPM space to increase. My observation is that CLUTCH is not slipping as per my experience, but I could be wrong, because problem is not solved yet. @sahk
    There is no issue of accelerator cable. @ekdrifter
    I have a question, if we think for a moment that clutch is slipping at 100Km/Hr and we think it is the reason it is not going beyond, should burning smell of clutch be easily smelled?

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    when the timing was being checked, did the technician verify that the centrifugal spark advance and vacuum spark advance was operating in correct range.

    What happens when one tries to accelerate at full throttle in first gear with no A/C on flat road? does the engine want to eagerly rev or it just falls flat?.
    ZRS - Zulfiqar Racing Systems ..... - professionals at work - at crackwheels.com

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    if Suzuki tells you that this is normal then you have full right to ask them for demonstrating this in a similar car. They are a suzuki dealership
    ZRS - Zulfiqar Racing Systems ..... - professionals at work - at crackwheels.com

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    Before going to Suzuki Macca Motors.
    I went a day before to Khalid bin waleed road and bought brand new tires DUNLOP costing 20K
    I installed new Air Filter, new Oil filter, Shell Blue Oil Rs.1800+ and I informed all these have been done before coming to Macca Motors and in the car job card I mention all of these things. Still Macca Motors changed 1 day old Air filter, Oil Filter, Shell oil and put Suzuki oil and charged me additional rupees. Where as he said he gives me 1570 discount as Discount Parts. Where as they told me that new car lock cost 1400 and in the bill I saw it was Rs.2894. I argued alot as you can see I give them billing of 40,000 rupees at 8:45PM. I was arguing why the hell they changed all new air filter,oil filter, enginer oil, gear oil when I had told them and written note on the job card.

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    @Xulfiqar
    Suzuki Macca Motors have some service manuals, I will see if I can find Suzuki ALTO VXR service manual. In these books all information is given and I will tomorrow ask them about centrifugal spark advance and vacuum spark advance!
    @what happens when one tries to accelerate at full throttle in first gear with no A/C on flat road? does the engine want to eagerly rev or it just falls flat?.

    I think the car wants to rev more.

    Slowest Suzuki Alto VXR in Karachi????? -1257928Slowest Suzuki Alto VXR in Karachi????? -1257941Slowest Suzuki Alto VXR in Karachi????? -1257942Slowest Suzuki Alto VXR in Karachi????? -1257952Slowest Suzuki Alto VXR in Karachi????? -1257953Slowest Suzuki Alto VXR in Karachi????? -1257963
    Xulfiqar bhai you can see these are the books by which Suzuki Macca motors compares with original data, I couldn't find ALTO manual. I will go and see for it tomorrow.
    I noticed one very weird thing in the car. When on neutral or running hard, when I press the accelerator pedal to the floor and engines when reaches very high RPM, the temperature indication goes down to "C" and when I release the RPM it comes back to middle position.
    See in the picture
    Slowest Suzuki Alto VXR in Karachi????? -1257989
    This is me at Suzuki Macca.
    Slowest Suzuki Alto VXR in Karachi????? -1257984

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    suzuki motors normally charge alot than market.... i have a 2005 alto vxr cng fitted Alhamdulillah working fine can touch 120km with ac on highway n 130 with a hard foot my clutch cable broke and i went to suzuki rawalpindi motors as all of my car work is done there... they told me the price of clutch cable Rs. 3050.. i was shocked... went to kiani autos in gawalmandi and i got the cable for Rs. 350 only and its working fine..... a back bumber costed me 3200 w/o paint from suzuki motors while from market it was about 1100... no doubt the one i got from suzuki was better in quality bt it didn't worth 3200..... a reverse switch for mehran i got from local market was of Rs. 200 while suzuki was charging 1200...
    Alhamdulillah

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    my alto does not go above 100 km/hr also, but i guess the culprit is the axle and boots. they are in bad condition

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    pretty simple shop they have there, the tools are basic bicycle workshop toolset and the SST tools are what any other shop would have regularly. infact I think I used to hack up most parts like that to make life easier.

    anyway

    the engine needs to be tested properly for correct operational parameters.

    1 engine health
    2 engine induction
    3 ignition system

    According to you - you say the engine is completely flat and dead and does not respond to accelerator input - and you are sure the accelerator cable is correctly set to open the throttles 100% when you press it fully.

    That means that you should either be hearing the engine bogging down (low fuel induction) or no response + no bogging which means that your spark advance is inoperative. For this you need to connect a timing light and measure the timing mark, you should see it advance as the engine accelerates.

    Its best to check this without any spark advancer doo daa CNG thing attached. Remove it from the system, the pulse generator should work the ignitor which should switch the coil in real time. Many other carburettor Cultus owners have faced similar issues like yours.
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    bhai jan i had similar issue in my mehran bought 2nd hand was used by an idoit before
    so we checked mehran 3 ppl on board back in 2005 car was a simple vx without ac it touched 90KPh top speed yes 90
    so after learn to drive took it to some mech replaced clutch plate clutch cable and drove it and then took the car on same road it went above 110 kph on cng which was preety good for it 3 ppl on board same road
    and after some mods it used to get over 130 on same road
    so sir u spent this much try new clutch plate and just for the sake of it give it a try
    also my alto when brand new was not going above 100 on petrol or cng and after tune ups it went to 110 with heavy foot
    now my alto is running 8mm wires and ngk v power plugs it reached 150 on petrol and AC with 4 ppl on board
    try changing plug and wires
    8mm wires cost 700 or so and plugs cost 130 a piece try that first before clutch plate and inshALLAh it will make difference and bro i am telling u 3s some are good some are avg and some are lairs...
    Hanjiii Kaa Storeey Eehh !

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    Bro done same burnout with same result
    Rev your car upto 6000 or max speed and do it on petrol and car will not cross red line and tell us what speed are u getting
    May be your car not producing that power

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    Prior doing any thing,just open driver side door fully and bow down,now pull the accelerator pedal upwards with hand by applying slight force and have a test drive.Some times after ages accelerator pedal lever gets bend & can't press fully being touched with floor and causing for lack of power.
    Never loose hope in life,every step gives u something.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fahadwizz View Post
    Recheck timing. I dont know how ppl connect an advancer to an ecu/sensor less car. I.Timing on ur car is set by rotating dizzy. Since the problem is on both cng n petrol, issue is not with fuel delivery.

    Did anyone mess with the timing belt? U might want to check if ur timing belt is correctly aligned.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    STAP 00B is for carby cars having pickup sensor in the distributor.
    Its actually a retarder which retards the timing when car is being used on petrol.


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    fully advance the car via distributor and check

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    I think @Xulfiqar is right about timing or current issues. My margalla 96 after engine overhaul was unable to touch 100, even on motorway & was unable to bear the load of AC as temperature rose quickly. Spent a lot of money on different things but atlast a sensible & honest mechanic adjusted its timing with the help of a timing gun. It became fine after that timing adjustment.

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    @mrjunaidfarrukh
    Yes, you are true about them.
    @ghayyour1
    Which model you have?
    @ekdrifter
    I am convinced clutch doesn't slip. I have new clutch plate, pressure plate that is to say a complete set newly installed. From where can I find 8mm wires and NGK V power plugs? did you replace the the moment you purchased your brand new alto? why didn't you ask your Suzuki it must have been in warranty? and when you find you cannot take a brand new alto beyond 100km/hr, why you didn't complain and what is mean by 3s?
    @saadalex
    I rev it on neutral, the rpm goes to the extent on which it appears the engine might blow as rev limiter is not installed. There is no rpm indicator. i think I will install if needed for rectification of problem. I am planning to put this car on dynometer NED Univeristy has one, but I don't know if I would be granted permission where as in Islamabad one place has and inshallah I am planning to go by road to Islamabad at the end of this month and I will certainly put this car on test and I will put another car alto on test and I will compare the two results, my alto 2010 and some one else Alto from Islamabad which is in very good condition and can go beyond 100km/hr.
    @argtr65
    The pedal seems fine.
    @umarkhan1
    What is STAP 00B? Macca motors said its advancer. Anyway I will check and confirm what is installed in alto advancer or retarder?
    @asadghumaman and @Asad1
    Macca motors and local mechanic had already played with it using timing gun.
    @Xulfiqar
    Two days back, I had given for another complete day that car to Macca motors. They told me they had removed old jets and installed bigger fuel jets in carburretor and Mr.Irfan senior tehnician told me that he had taken upto 110km/hr and i am sure he might have taken on a road which has downward slope, because they drive on few roads, before replacing jets he told me when he was with me he had taken it on 90km/hr on the same slope to which I was not at all convinced because I told him it was a slope and don't test maximum speed on slope.After that I didn't find time to take the car on the Super highway, I am leaving for Lahore on tomorrow and come back same day in night to Karachi. Next day that is on sunday I will make video and upload the performance of this car having bigger jets.I think buying a new carburettor also will not improve any performance which cost around 35K. Macca motors told me that compression test was fine also, I didn't ask what were the numberrs because of lack of time and I wasn't sure if they really did it or not or were it was a simple plain lie. Another thing which is to notice for me is the new average with bigger fuel jets than normal?

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    @umery2k75
    STAP(Sequential timing advance processor) is just a retarder as per landirenzo website..
    Having big jets will not effect performance on cng.
    is the clutch cable adjusted perfectly??when you release the clutch,where the car starts to move??
    Just Do It Your Self!!!!!

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    I am convinced clutch doesn't slip. I have new clutch plate, pressure plate that is to say a complete set newly installed. From where can I find 8mm wires and NGK V power plugs? did you replace the the moment you purchased your brand new alto? why didn't you ask your Suzuki it must have been in warranty? and when you find you cannot take a brand new alto beyond 100km/hr, why you didn't complain and what is mean by 3s?
    3s means dealerships
    u can buy ngk v power and wires at any place i think plaza is in khi might be place
    i took it on motorway and car was not going above 90 on petrol and on first tune up it was good it went till 110 on cng but not that fast plus after driving it one year on ac it started missing etc so on previous ride i did that experiment with wires and plugs and result was great so did on alto 2012 and pick is better plus on ac car never does missing plus it went till 120+ on cng and ac and on petrol 150 with ac
    i say try it just for sake of it
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    you dont need bigger jets as you are not introducing more air - so you will get a rich mixture at mid range which is bad, Your case sounds like a bad ignition system.

    When tuning carburettor cars, the carburettor is adjusted in the last step and ensuring full operating temperature has been reached. If the ignition system is retarded or badly set - you can install a weber carburettor on that engine and it still wont move. It easily becomes a dog chasing its tail situation.

    Why dont you completely remove the spark controller for CNG and run factory wiring and then set the ignition timing correctly and verify it actually advances as the engine accelerates.
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    bhai jan alto ki avg kharab hoti hai and bigger jets man kiss ur petrol khacha good bye
    Hanjiii Kaa Storeey Eehh !

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