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Thread: Best Engine Oil for Toyota Belta 1.0 2010 1KR-FE

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    Question Best Engine Oil for Toyota Belta 1.0 2010 1KR-FE

    AA,

    I have recently bought Toyota Belta 1.0L. It came with original engine oil which was in reasonable state but I still changed it to ZIC A+ (as I always used ZIC A+ in my Vitz for last 4 years). Since then I am not satisfied with engine's noise and feels engine is not running so smooth....

    So I would appreciate if you guyz could suggest me some other oil ... howz the original Toyota Engine oil ? Is it better in quality than others available in market like Shell, Caltex etc ?

    And one more thing I read somewhere online that for Belta 5/20 Engine oil is used and I have read somewhere that 5W/40 is more suitable oil in pakistan conditions, so can I use 5w/40 in car which says to use 5W/20 ?

    Thanks in advance for your expert opinions

    Maverick

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    Quote Originally Posted by GoodMan7 View Post
    My writtings are usually the sum of the discussions that we made for hours every day with the people having different insights. Sometimes we really laugh that how people are changing oils so frequently without even knowing ieither these should.change or not. And many people try to run the mineral oils for the extended intervals.
    My friend using zic xq in santro and changing with abnormally extended intervals. And guess what, when the oil comes out, its still in useable condition.
    Another using PTT Performa 0/40 in vitz, and pretty surprized with extra mileage.
    Similarly hundreds of other examples comes from the daily experience.
    The JDMs are far advanced and engines very nicely use engine oils.and gives nice averages.
    Ok, let me know one thing. My first causin have manual belta 1300 cc (2006 german model, over 180k drove) giving fuel average as 16km/l within city with synthetic oils.
    Our company driver has new xli (same vvti engine) and it gives average 9~10km/l.
    Same.engines and.same sumps. Why so big.difference in mileage?
    Your writings are wrong, misleading and dangerous if followed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GoodMan7 View Post
    In your very recent posts, you mentioned that trucks who's sumps are big enough upto 21~23 liter oil can go driving up 100K without oil change.

    Its not an argument to proof someone right or wrong about the recommended change intervals, but just am using it as an additional supporting reference to my post.
    Yes trucks with 28 gallon sumps aka approx 109 litre sumps can go for 100,000 kms on a single charge of oil but takes about 8 changes of oil filters, and that oil has to be specific - and that same oil when used in a corolla 2.0D cannot go for more than 5000 kms in the toyota 2C.

    hence if your liquimoly agent tells you to run their oil for 20,000 kms without problem on a single oil filter change in a 4 litre sump engine with marginal oil filter in dusty environments with dead cold engine (missing thermostat etc) then get that as a guarantee in writing before you actually try to do that. I dont believe you have ever seen an oil analysis report done on a used oil, It costs about 35 dollars here in the US while oil generic mineral oil change along with filter and labor is about 18 dollars at a regular shop - the people buying the analysis use engines that have oil change costs of more than USD 500/-

    Another example was the old VW boxer engine, it does not use an oil filter, any oil change interval of more than 3000 kms on that engine is a recipe of death whether mineral or synthetic.
    ZRS - Zulfiqar Racing Systems ..... - professionals at work - at crackwheels.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by GoodMan7 View Post
    About JDMs,
    One thing I certainly believe and repeatedly mentioned in my previous posts also, that, "Origin Does matter".
    I've seen millions of branded cars (BMW, Chrysler, Audi, Buick, Peageot, etc.) in China. China never allows to run imported cars in China or will impose sky high taxes & dutes. Instead they invite international companies to come in China and start producing the same products here.
    Now, when we compare these cars with European made cars, then there is "big difference in the quality & durability".
    Here you can say, the engines & technologies are same, but I can firmly say that though these things are same, but still the origin matters a lot.
    Lets weight a same model two cars of BMW. One is made in China and other in Germany or UK. I can bet that there will be ~10% weight difference (European use good materials to add safety & comfort). But Chinese cars,, far behind.

    Similarly, the 2nd hand Jdms in Pakistan are at-least produced in Japan. Hence they are more comfortable from many aspects than PDMs. Though the engines & technologies are same, but still JDMs performance is far ahead than PDM.
    If origins matter then the absolute worst POS japanese cars are in the US, their quality is pathetic, e.g. the dashboard is made of hard plastic which breaks like a biscuit, the outer plastics gray out in less than a year, their engine castings are unfinished, mechanics cut their hands just trying to work on them, they are rough running and a general piece of crap to own. Their parts cost is also phenomenal, e.g. just the rear brake lines for a 2007 corolla are about 50 dollars each, while the same for my MB are about 11 dollars each.

    anyway - the issue is that origin does not matter as you assume, the brand name has a tolerance level of workmanship just like when you buy a genuine Apple Iphone, its made in China but the quality is upto Apple headquarters standards, similarly many cars are built in china then exported and even used there, their quality is regulated by the brand owner. Just like Shell oils around the world will be the exact same formulation no matter if its sold in Narowaal or Nebraska.

    These JDM orphan cars you are taking up as free cake are useless, they are cheap econoboxes (aka shopping carts) and were built to die very early as they are cheap like chips. These cars are not the cutting edge of technology you assume they are. You are free to use the most expensive sperm whale sourced oil in it as you please, but that will not guarantee long drain interval unless you do proper analysis from time to time (or might as well listen to the manufacturer spec - they spent more than a few dollars on this)
    ZRS - Zulfiqar Racing Systems ..... - professionals at work - at crackwheels.com

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    anyway - I have an example for you

    my family had an old Honda Accord 1.6 in Pakistan, I once rebuilt the engine eons ago, acid washed the cooling galleries and oil galleries etc. after that it was pretty basic maintenance of oil changes, tappet setting, filter changes and general upkeep of timing belt etc.

    When we "gave" that car to one of our relatives when everyone of my family moved out - it had clocked more than 400,000 kms and guess what the oil was used..

    Caltex Havoline Motor oil - the oldschool API SH grade @ 20W50 viscosity. It said right on the air filter box to use that oil and the capacity was 3.5 litres in the sump. The oil and air filters used were either MANN or Donaldson (bought in Pakistan in large quantity as the importer needed to buy 24 each time - so I bought all 24 each time)

    The oil change interval was 5000 kms and the air filter was replaced yearly.

    The engine still had 170 or 178 psi compression on all cylinders till I moved out of Pakistan, the oil pressure was 28~30 psi when hot and above 80 psi when cold started. The engine temperature was always maintained at a minimum of 80C. It still sounded like a smooth Honda A16 should.

    According to you it must be a darned miracle the engine survived for 400,000 kms on such an old tech oil.
    ZRS - Zulfiqar Racing Systems ..... - professionals at work - at crackwheels.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xulfiqar View Post
    If origins matter then the absolute worst POS japanese cars are in the US, their quality is pathetic, e.g. the dashboard is made of hard plastic which breaks like a biscuit, the outer plastics gray out in less than a year, their engine castings are unfinished, mechanics cut their hands just trying to work on them, they are rough running and a general piece of crap to own. Their parts cost is also phenomenal, e.g. just the rear brake lines for a 2007 corolla are about 50 dollars each, while the same for my MB are about 11 dollars each.

    anyway - the issue is that origin does not matter as you assume, the brand name has a tolerance level of workmanship just like when you buy a genuine Apple Iphone, its made in China but the quality is upto Apple headquarters standards, similarly many cars are built in china then exported and even used there, their quality is regulated by the brand owner. Just like Shell oils around the world will be the exact same formulation no matter if its sold in Narowaal or Nebraska.

    These JDM orphan cars you are taking up as free cake are useless, they are cheap econoboxes (aka shopping carts) and were built to die very early as they are cheap like chips. These cars are not the cutting edge of technology you assume they are. You are free to use the most expensive sperm whale sourced oil in it as you please, but that will not guarantee long drain interval unless you do proper analysis from time to time (or might as well listen to the manufacturer spec - they spent more than a few dollars on this)
    You are comparing JDMs with US Cars. And one can fully agree that US Cars are far better.
    But with the similar intense, one can have the same comments about PDMs when comparing them with JDMs.
    For Pak., JDMs are far better than Domestically assembled cars.

    Here, brand new Civic price more than 2200K (till 2011 models) doesn't come with airbags.
    While JDMs 660 Cars coming with 2~4 airbags.
    This is just one example w.r.t safetly. Whereas there is a wide gap in their Performances.

    Majority of the Pakis like JDMs for sure. But only afraid because of parts. And if their Parts are available here (like Suzuki or Toyota), then there may be less than 10% people who would still buy PDM.

    Just we have to feed the right set of oils and enjoy the lavish drive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xulfiqar View Post
    anyway - I have an example for you

    my family had an old Honda Accord 1.6 in Pakistan, I once rebuilt the engine eons ago, acid washed the cooling galleries and oil galleries etc. after that it was pretty basic maintenance of oil changes, tappet setting, filter changes and general upkeep of timing belt etc.

    When we "gave" that car to one of our relatives when everyone of my family moved out - it had clocked more than 400,000 kms and guess what the oil was used..

    Caltex Havoline Motor oil - the oldschool API SH grade @ 20W50 viscosity. It said right on the air filter box to use that oil and the capacity was 3.5 litres in the sump. The oil and air filters used were either MANN or Donaldson (bought in Pakistan in large quantity as the importer needed to buy 24 each time - so I bought all 24 each time)

    The oil change interval was 5000 kms and the air filter was replaced yearly.

    The engine still had 170 or 178 psi compression on all cylinders till I moved out of Pakistan, the oil pressure was 28~30 psi when hot and above 80 psi when cold started. The engine temperature was always maintained at a minimum of 80C. It still sounded like a smooth Honda A16 should.

    According to you it must be a darned miracle the engine survived for 400,000 kms on such an old tech oil.
    Any engine oils having grades SG, SL, SM, SN, grades, will do fine.
    But as long as optimum performance is concern, we have to feed more suitable oils to engine.
    However, exceptions are always there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xulfiqar View Post
    anyway - I have an example for you

    my family had an old Honda Accord 1.6 in Pakistan, I once rebuilt the engine eons ago, acid washed the cooling galleries and oil galleries etc. after that it was pretty basic maintenance of oil changes, tappet setting, filter changes and general upkeep of timing belt etc.

    When we "gave" that car to one of our relatives when everyone of my family moved out - it had clocked more than 400,000 kms and guess what the oil was used..

    Caltex Havoline Motor oil - the oldschool API SH grade @ 20W50 viscosity. It said right on the air filter box to use that oil and the capacity was 3.5 litres in the sump. The oil and air filters used were either MANN or Donaldson (bought in Pakistan in large quantity as the importer needed to buy 24 each time - so I bought all 24 each time)

    The oil change interval was 5000 kms and the air filter was replaced yearly.

    The engine still had 170 or 178 psi compression on all cylinders till I moved out of Pakistan, the oil pressure was 28~30 psi when hot and above 80 psi when cold started. The engine temperature was always maintained at a minimum of 80C. It still sounded like a smooth Honda A16 should.

    According to you it must be a darned miracle the engine survived for 400,000 kms on such an old tech oil.
    Any engine oils having grades SG, SL, SM, SN, grades, will do fine.
    But as long as optimum performance is concern, we have to feed more suitable oils to engine.
    However, exceptions are always there.

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    This is the best oil for toyota.


    i dont have one but if i did i would get this.

    http://www.toyota-indus.com/parts/lu...thetic-05w-30/

    i have a 660cc car. i get my car's oil changed from toyota dealership cuz of aik number oil and filter.

    i once talked to the mechanic for using this oil on my car but he said if u use the above mentioned you wont be able to use any other oil.

    this is a high-tech oil which creates an acrylic layer between the pistons and selves of cylinders. it also has additives which clash with other oils.

    i get for my car:

    http://www.toyota-indus.com/parts/lu...s/petron-plus/

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    its nothing special, the mechanic at the toyota showroom had no idea what he was talking about. just regular grp 3 synth base oil with the SN grade add packs and also complies with the ILSAC GF3 performance levels which are nothing special to start with. No acrylic BS, this might have some molybdenum or calcium pack in it thats all.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoodMan7 View Post
    Any engine oils having grades SG, SL, SM, SN, grades, will do fine.
    But as long as optimum performance is concern, we have to feed more suitable oils to engine.
    However, exceptions are always there.

    What is your definition of performance in these commuter cars?
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoodMan7 View Post
    You are comparing JDMs with US Cars. And one can fully agree that US Cars are far better.
    But with the similar intense, one can have the same comments about PDMs when comparing them with JDMs.
    For Pak., JDMs are far better than Domestically assembled cars.

    Here, brand new Civic price more than 2200K (till 2011 models) doesn't come with airbags.
    While JDMs 660 Cars coming with 2~4 airbags.
    This is just one example w.r.t safetly. Whereas there is a wide gap in their Performances.

    Majority of the Pakis like JDMs for sure. But only afraid because of parts. And if their Parts are available here (like Suzuki or Toyota), then there may be less than 10% people who would still buy PDM.

    Just we have to feed the right set of oils and enjoy the lavish drive.

    You are not considering the fact that Im telling you the US made japanese brand cars are crap, They are completely trash quality in every sense even when compared to the Indus Motors cars, the only difference being that the IMC cars lack the emmissions package, have smaller engines and lack the full blown air bag package along with the convenience package.

    Now you comparing new cars made in Pakistan to used cars from Japan does not make sense, would you compare a NEW android phone to a used Iphone? The correct way would be to compare a used japanese civic price with a used JDM chooha car price.

    The problem of spare parts of these orphan cars is very well known, spare parts mean that you can walk to a showroom and BUY the smallest part by part number. Not get your favorite independant retail hatti to get you aftermarket items like filters, brake pads etc. A very good example would be if you want to buy a NEW torque converter for your automatic JDM orphan car which shop in Pakistan stocks it? NO SHOP has it - they might be able to buy it retail from outside Pakistan and sell it to you with a premium but thats just like your mulazim asking for his premium to get potatoes for you from the market.

    Keeping that in mind its not just feeding it the right oils and enjoy lavish drive
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    I agree with you on mechanic's knowledge.

    but i trust that when a manufacturer or its dealership provides an oil it will be highly likely that it is genuine and a good oil.
    im sure the manufacturer would not want his car in bad shape after using what he puts in.
    honda had a problem with guard filter's seals and they now provide a thailand made oil filter which is good for 10,000kms. i change it after 6,000kms.

    i do not trust local workshops of lubricant seller/distributors on weather the oil is genuine or not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xulfiqar View Post
    its nothing special, the mechanic at the toyota showroom had no idea what he was talking about. just regular grp 3 synth base oil with the SN grade add packs and also complies with the ILSAC GF3 performance levels which are nothing special to start with. No acrylic BS, this might have some molybdenum or calcium pack in it thats all.
    Most of the technical things you have said in this thread have gone above our (majority of car owners here) head but thanks for initiating a thought process here.

    Some one told me that not to use High Octane Patrol in Toyota Belta 1.0 (KR-FE) it will damage its valves or something , is it correct ?
    And does this rule also applies to Engine Oils ? For example if SAE 5W-30 is recommended for my car then can I use any brand's 5W-30 oil or I have to look for some other specs too ?

    According to your experience which brand Engine Oil you found best ?

    Thanks,
    Maverick

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverickz View Post
    Most of the technical things you have said in this thread have gone above our (majority of car owners here) head but thanks for initiating a thought process here.

    Some one told me that not to use High Octane Patrol in Toyota Belta 1.0 (KR-FE) it will damage its valves or something , is it correct ?
    And does this rule also applies to Engine Oils ? For example if SAE 5W-30 is recommended for my car then can I use any brand's 5W-30 oil or I have to look for some other specs too ?

    According to your experience which brand Engine Oil you found best ?

    Thanks,
    Maverick
    i like your post becaue what you wrote about zulfiqar is correct. I fully agree with that and directly pointed him as well in my recent posts. But this is for sure that he really has superior knowledge.

    For hi octane, just ignore what you are told because we live in pak. where a normal petrol is available 99% in substandards and is not upto the mark. How we can expect pure hioctane in pak. Lol.
    Hioctane has good combustion in the engine and produce good energy. Engine feels happy. So while you are here in pak. feel easy to run your car on full hioctane. It will not bring any harm. Or if you are so conscious, then mix 50~60% petrol in it.

    my car also has 1kr-fe and runs pretry well on hioctane (or i can call it as slightly better petrol. Lol)

    dont be so impressed to use 5/30 oil in your new car. This is semi.synthetic and not fully synthetic.

    Fully synthetic oils are
    0/40
    0/30
    0/20
    5/40
    5/50

    others are partially synthetic or semi.
    (information source liqui moly website).
    No Guts, No Glory.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GoodMan7 View Post
    i like your post becaue what you wrote about zulfiqar is correct. I fully agree with that and directly pointed him as well in my recent posts. But this is for sure that he really has superior knowledge.

    For hi octane, just ignore what you are told because we live in pak. where a normal petrol is available 99% in substandards and is not upto the mark. How we can expect pure hioctane in pak. Lol.
    Hioctane has good combustion in the engine and produce good energy. Engine feels happy. So while you are here in pak. feel easy to run your car on full hioctane. It will not bring any harm. Or if you are so conscious, then mix 50~60% petrol in it.

    my car also has 1kr-fe and runs pretry well on hioctane (or i can call it as slightly better petrol. Lol)

    dont be so impressed to use 5/30 oil in your new car. This is semi.synthetic and not fully synthetic.

    Fully synthetic oils are
    0/40
    0/30
    0/20
    5/40
    5/50

    others are partially synthetic or semi.
    (information source liqui moly website).
    Engine feels "happy"?

    What about when the engine has a headache? Sprinkling holy water may help that, right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverickz View Post
    Most of the technical things you have said in this thread have gone above our (majority of car owners here) head but thanks for initiating a thought process here.

    Some one told me that not to use High Octane Patrol in Toyota Belta 1.0 (KR-FE) it will damage its valves or something , is it correct ?
    And does this rule also applies to Engine Oils ? For example if SAE 5W-30 is recommended for my car then can I use any brand's 5W-30 oil or I have to look for some other specs too ?

    According to your experience which brand Engine Oil you found best ?

    Thanks,
    Maverick
    When you choose an oil you do two things

    1 - check the performance grade match - in this case its API SN and ILSAC GF3
    2 - check the viscosity - choose the lowest first number but also inspect the manufacturer provided graph which is based on temperature of the weather you will face regularly for the next oil change distance or time.

    an example is below which is provided by mercedes benz

    Best Engine Oil for Toyota  Belta 10  2010 1KRFE -1309555

    Now after provision of such they also have their own approval rating - which in simple terms means "Your first priority should be the approved oils, the second is choosing oils complying with ACEA A3/B3 rating but with the viscosity matched according to the chart, the last is choosing an oil according to the API rating but should follow the viscosity chart too.

    This is the approved list for cars with flexible service system indicator (its oil change interval can range from 8,000 km to 25,000 kms

    MB 229.3 <= approval list

    In simple words

    if you cannot find an approved oil - choose according to ACEA rating, if you cannot find such an oil then choose according to API rating, but in all cases follow the viscosity chart.


    In your toyota case - its an API SN oil with 5w30 vicosity (aka energy conserving oil) any oil meeting these requirements will work - such a chart is also provided in your cars owners manual.
    ZRS - Zulfiqar Racing Systems ..... - professionals at work - at crackwheels.com

  18. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoodMan7 View Post
    i like your post becaue what you wrote about zulfiqar is correct. I fully agree with that and directly pointed him as well in my recent posts. But this is for sure that he really has superior knowledge.

    For hi octane, just ignore what you are told because we live in pak. where a normal petrol is available 99% in substandards and is not upto the mark. How we can expect pure hioctane in pak. Lol.
    Hioctane has good combustion in the engine and produce good energy. Engine feels happy. So while you are here in pak. feel easy to run your car on full hioctane. It will not bring any harm. Or if you are so conscious, then mix 50~60% petrol in it.

    my car also has 1kr-fe and runs pretry well on hioctane (or i can call it as slightly better petrol. Lol)

    dont be so impressed to use 5/30 oil in your new car. This is semi.synthetic and not fully synthetic.

    Fully synthetic oils are
    0/40
    0/30
    0/20
    5/40
    5/50

    others are partially synthetic or semi.
    (information source liqui moly website).
    what about 75W90 full synethic gear oil, full synthetic ATF or straight grade full synethic SAE 50, a wider spread of viscosity is possible in synth oils but its not a guarantee for it.
    ZRS - Zulfiqar Racing Systems ..... - professionals at work - at crackwheels.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xulfiqar View Post
    what about 75W90 full synethic gear oil, full synthetic ATF or straight grade full synethic SAE 50, a wider spread of viscosity is possible in synth oils but its not a guarantee for it.
    big brother, dont always jusy try to be disagree which i start feeling from your posts.
    Firstly, the thread is going about engine oils and not about the gear oils.
    And secondly, plz re-read my post where i have give reference of the source which is liqui moly website.
    No Guts, No Glory.

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    Our People's Thought Of COSTLY Is Always BETTER Never Gets Changed...!!

    For Some Reason.....They JUST CONSIDER A COSTLY OIL BEST For Even Their OLD Motors And Some Just Believe On LONG CHANGE Interval Story's Forgotten The Place where They Drive..>Weather Condition...Environmental Dust And Fuel........!!
    TOYOTA Sprinter 86- AE80 DOHC 20v'D TOYOTA Corolla 98- AE101 4AFE 16v

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    I Remind Of Few Engines I Saw From JAAY DEE EMM Imports HAlf CUT In Shershah Back 3 years AGO As Well As Phycially Inspecting 4.5 Grade Vitz 1SZ-FE In Showroom Condition......!!


    The Engines Looks Like Dipped In Chocolate And COFFEE Addict From Inside.....The LONG Oil Change Interval Stuff Just Gets Over TOO MUCH As They Have No Time For That........I Have Seen Many Cars And Engines In Same Condition Which Are Less Than 50k Driven.....!!
    TOYOTA Sprinter 86- AE80 DOHC 20v'D TOYOTA Corolla 98- AE101 4AFE 16v

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