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Thread: Charade 88 Engine suggestion required

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    Default Charade 88 Engine suggestion required

    Hi,
    I was reading all the previous threads of charade swaps and have now decided to swap my charade's engine.

    I am not willing to go for stock engines or 4afe/4efe etc because they are way old engines of 1990s. I will keep this car with me for next 4-5 years more and willing to have a newer engine such as vitz, cultus etc.

    Please suggest me whether I should go for 1NZ-FE or 2NZ-FE? 2NZ is 1300cc which is economical as compare to 1500cc but that doesn't matter to me as I will be travelling day and nights on NH.

    I am in Karachi so Ser_GTR I read alot of your threads mainly on azicoll swap thread. I would be kind if you can participate as It is my first car (bought from my own salary not dad's) and I even dont know what suspension/axle etc are and what they do

    I just need a comfortable ride which do not disturb me or my family while travelling across pakistan.

    My stock engine is CB23 i guess its 1000cc. It was bought way back in 2003 (as i have receipt in file) and last time, I tried to get the head open for gasket issue. condition was not good and I do not trust any engine being repaired in Pakistan. Moreover, its not EFI and parts will be obsolete very soon.

    I have another question regarding tyres after swap. I should ask in same thread or I should create separate thread in relevant section?

    Oh btw, It is a family car. Me, my wife and my 11 months old love to drive back and forth from Hyderabad.

    Okay in total these are the questions :

    1. 1NZ-fe or 2NZ-fe (Suggestions are welcome if you have any other new engine in mind manufactured after 2002 and onwards, must be EFI. I hate carburetors dont ask why but i hate it).

    2. Any good mechanic? I know few bike mechanics but as this is first car, I dont know any. Most of the work I get done is from road mechanics near mukka chowk. I need a very reliable ride. I will be travelling with my wife on long routes.

    3. Engine rates + labour nowadays? I see rates in threads of 2009 and 2010 but its 2012 you know

    4. Tyres!!! I got a feeling that tyres will gonna burst on my next trip. I plan to go for 15 size low profile or semi profile tyres for better road grip and widest possible. Will that be problem after swapping as I will be having a powerful engine.

    5. Any senior member who is interested to spare few hours to assist me in day to day decisions like suspension works, engine bay coloring, axle, etc?

    Would love to see the response. I plan to do swap in early feb.

    See ya guys. Have a good day!


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    I have said it time and again on PW, if you do wish for an engine swap that involves using an engine from another make/model of car then consider the following points heavily.

    1 Are you capable of doing advance level repairs on cars
    2 Are you good at understanding wiring diagrams and wiring concepts

    If you yourself do not know such procedures or do not know anyone in your trusted circle of friends that can do them then you should be either having extremely deep pockets or use this car as your toy.

    For reliability sake, repair the engine etc to factory specs, it can be easily done. Repair the suspension/steering etc to factory spec, repair the whole wiring to factory spec. It is guaranteed that the outcome will be quite magnitudes better than any swap you can ever do with bastardised parts,

    swapping the engine with an original Daihatsu G102 (HC-E) 1.3 4 cyl engine which bolts on to the car without hassle is an entirely different story.

    I am pretty sure that you can find a CB23-37 engine in shershah, Most causes of failure are worn out cam bushings, worn out rocker shafts and rockers, unless your head is actually corroded.
    ZRS - Zulfiqar Racing Systems ..... - professionals at work - at crackwheels.com

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    Thanks a million Xulfiqar,
    Problem is, I went to shershah & Plaza in search. There are no Daihatsu engine above 1000cc which is in good conditions. I saw many 800cc which I believe is from Daihatsu mira.

    For the sake of Reliability, I chose Vitz engine. Few suggested me for honda motors but that seems totally opposite fitting.

    Last time the mechanic opened the Head, it was badly corroded. He told me that be prepare to change most of the things in engine and while searching for parts, we ended up finding other rusty engines out there.

    If I am spending 20-30K on overhauling a 23 years old engine, I would prefer to buy a newer one.

    Rest is, whatever you guys suggest.

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    It is always wise to ask before you buy an old car, check the cars available in the market which you can buy in your budget and then also see if spare parts will be available or not.

    anyway Suzuki could be a good choice in this case. this is just my view but you have right to do anything as this is your money.
    we should be proud of safe driving.

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    Xulfiqar bhai has given you the best suggestion
    Swaps aren't that easy and alot of time aren't that successful (personal experience)
    Either get the original repaired or buy the same engine from Shershah it will be cheaper and no alteration of chassis will be needed

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    Quote Originally Posted by leolove110 View Post
    Thanks a million Xulfiqar,
    Problem is, I went to shershah & Plaza in search. There are no Daihatsu engine above 1000cc which is in good conditions. I saw many 800cc which I believe is from Daihatsu mira.

    For the sake of Reliability, I chose Vitz engine. Few suggested me for honda motors but that seems totally opposite fitting.

    Last time the mechanic opened the Head, it was badly corroded. He told me that be prepare to change most of the things in engine and while searching for parts, we ended up finding other rusty engines out there.

    If I am spending 20-30K on overhauling a 23 years old engine, I would prefer to buy a newer one.

    Rest is, whatever you guys suggest.
    if you are worried about reworking a 23 years old engine then you should also be equally worried about the entire car its also 23 years old, metal fatigue, seam joint weakening, rust etc takes its toll. By reading your comments I believe a later car would be good
    ZRS - Zulfiqar Racing Systems ..... - professionals at work - at crackwheels.com

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    Hi,
    Thanks all. I know swap is not always a good solution.

    But as I told ya, its ma first ride. I got the car from my cousin who moved abroad. I got it for very cheap at 1.75lac. I dont think I could get any other car in this range.

    For body work, the car's first owner was his father. After his death, it was used by him only. I get the body checked. Only few parts are rusted such as the place where we put mud flaps i dont know the name.

    Engine bay is in original without rust.

    Do you think any new daihatsu engine would be better as compare to swap such as coure or mira? problem is they are very low like 800cc and my ride will be on highways mainly.

    I saw many threads of swap in this model and found their owners love it isnt it?

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    you are opposing what Zulfiqar bhai is saying mentally, aren't u !

    Look, engine swaps are a sure big hassle with your level of knowledge, as far as i can guess. Plz don't mind.

    Seemingly, you really don't know much about it and also, the car you have chosen has a high reputation in having obsolete parts of body/suspension/engine and expensive as well, so i recommend you be very careful in taking your steps.

    Local mechanics will support you even you plan to swap a V8 in it, they just need their labor and some busy days of em.

    I suggest you again, try finding the same engine for yourself as the car currently have. Even if you could not put the car into gear, you just do not know what might be the causes for it while you are on the road, so avoid swap as much as possible.

    Rest, you can better judge.

    Tc.
    success is the ability to go from one failure to the next without any loss of enthusiasm

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    Nope,
    If I had to oppose Xulfiqar or anyone, I would have created a topic like Hey I need a swapped engine. get it done and get paid

    Actually, I am unable to find good charade engine. I travel alot and mostly with my wife and kid. So, I do not want to be stood up at Pattokhi and mechanic says, your piston needs to be replace and we have to get it from karachi or lahore.

    Is it possible if I hire expertise of any pakwheeler who can look after whole swap/same engine replacement etc? Hire means paid in currency ofcourse.

    To be very honest, I chose this car because I was not able to afford any other car and mehran etc I dont like it.

    Okay if I do go for swap, what problems could I face? and if a pakwheeler is willing to help me physically in Karachi, Would he able to make my ride a reliable one with swapped engine???

    I mean lets say I choose wrong mechanic who ruins the car. But a guy who have done this before, will already have experience what to do and donts. That will make a reliable ride or not?

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    Default One Goog Tip for You

    My Friend do one thing As you are in Karachi just drive your car slowly to Quetta with one of your cousin or friend.there is a very big market of engines and parts I am sure you will see a very shining and working Charade engine there. Second thing just visit Dihatsu dealer in karachi and ask them for your engine parts or if they can import for you like ring pistons head gasket etc. but if you travel to Quetta that will give you fruitful results.

    Cheers! now
    we should be proud of safe driving.

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    Dear Poster,
    as xulfiqar said....dont ruin your car if she in good condition body wise....get your CB-23 engine over hauled by a good mechanic....change then engine only if, as posted by xulfiqar, "you know what to do and when to do"....else dont ruin your car......

    CB-23 is a reliable engine .....in terms of economy and every thing.....if rebuilt properly your car will run like a breeze...

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    Okay, who do you suggest for overhauling then? any good mechanic who runs for parts himself?

    What maximum speed it would attain after an overhaul?

    Also, my last question is unanswered. If I get swap done with the help of experienced pakwheeler, would that still be unreliable? (Talking about swap)

    Xulfiqar, Any new daihatsu model which engine can be bolt on and if not, what about above question?

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    AoA, well i agree wid xulfiqar sahab, i have a civic 95, the stock one which is carberator, last year my engine gave up and had to swap another one, there is a mechanic at peoples chorangi named asghar, we decided the day and went to shershah, there was lyk 14 to 20 d15b's engine dere at his shop from which i have to choose one, all r wid efi manifolds some wid manual tranny and some wid auto, i picked the one which was on Auto tranny, nd purchased only the assembly, and it costed me around 32k, it was a simple swap widout any alterations as the engine was the same which is done very easily, carberators r not much complicated like efi's, my car is still running perfect on carberator, never troubled me MashAllah. .
    My suggestion is to swap original engine or there is also a charade Hc-E engine which is 1.3 efi if u want power also. . it could be swapd easily, get only the assembly and run the car on carberator.

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    infinity thats great if charade 1.3 engine is available.

    Nah I will prefer EFI over carb. Can you tell me exact name of the engine? an in which year that engine came, a price idea would be nice as well or any contact in shershah?

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    Problem is, that engine is from 1988-1992
    I am looking for a machine from 21st century.

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    I'd suggest go for an engine swap

    2NZ-FE

    or even a brilliantly new 5A-FE will do the job.


    The others have good cause for concern in steering you in the OEM Daihatsu engine direction....


    ask around for some competent pakwheelers in your city......breakdown the tasks and the costs and go for it!

    thank you.
    The only way to get rid of temptation is to yield to it... I can resist everything but temptation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by leolove110 View Post
    Problem is, that engine is from 1988-1992
    I am looking for a machine from 21st century
    .
    You would be far better with an entire car from the 21st century rather than trying to rig yourself an old car if you do not have working experience of swapping engines, doing wiring etc.

    All the modern daihatsu engines you will find can also be found as Toyota too, I would say again, if you are confident that you can achieve success with your level of knowledge, experience and tools then go for it. DO NOT trust any mechanics recommendation for turnkey solution because they will even agree to put a Chev 5.7 litre V8 in your charade if you are providing them money - and they would refuse all consequences afterwards.

    You are the leader of this choice - do it wisely, I have done many swaps, including many brands, and fitting the engine is "easy as eating cake" - the REAL PROBLEM STARTS when reactions like torque steer, vibration, mount tear, wiring etc show up - and thats what separates the men from the boys.

    for testing sake - ask a mechanic that if he would be able to fully wire up a Nissan GA15 EFI engine
    ZRS - Zulfiqar Racing Systems ..... - professionals at work - at crackwheels.com

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    Thumbs up

    Hi Leo, I was in a similar situation with my Charade 85 as you are now, about 2 months ago. I asked the mechanics and on the forums and got mostly confident reviews on swaps. However, I took Xulfiqar Sb's advice and got a charade's 1000cc carb non turbo engine. I am not technically sound and this decision has given me the following benfits:

    1. Mechanics are better versed with Carb engines than EFIs, so they r easier to repair/diagnose. (with most swaps I read, people had to go through a lot of problems with electric systems)
    2. i did not have to make any expenses on suspension as an engine swap involves suspension changes also.
    3. The car is on factory specs so it can be repaired by any mechanic, whereas with swaps, only your particular mechanic knows what he has done and where.

    I see that you will be using your car with family. Before being fast or modern or low profile tyres, it has to be reliable. A swap is not trust-worthy because the mechanics do a lot of jugaars to get the engine working. Trust me, the moment you leave the workshop, some chhota is going to start working on your car and he will be least bothered with quality.

    In Lahore, there are a lot of good engines. You can ask people in SherShah to get you some good engines from Quetta also. you don't have to drive all the way to Quetta yourself, the engine can be ordered in Karachi as well. All good shops give a warranty of 4 days to 1 week. You can get the engine changed if you find any problems.

    I got my engine with gear for 40k in Novemeber 2011. There were many cheaper alternatives, the cheapest being a Maruti 1000cc EFI engine which is much cheaper than Vitz, Margalla engines etc. Apparently it is quite reliable and a lot of people are getting it installed. However, I needed a reliable car for the family so I didn't go for any jugaars.

    I am happy with the power and performance of this engine. If you want a reliability, I would also suggest not to take chances with your money and your family's peace of mind.

    Good luck and keep us posted .


    Charade 88 Engine suggestion required -359265
    http://www.pakwheels.com/forumreply_az_TopicID!53562~ForumID!29~pw.html

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    @poster....i was having a charade and i used it as my daily run car...from isloo to lhr to pak pattan to rahim yar khan to d i khan to mianwali to xob...except krachi and quetta ......max speed attained on CNG+AC was 130 km/hr.....trust me our roads cant bear more speed....if the car body is not eaten up by rust ...get the original engine overhauled....it is the best solution...why i am insisting on original engine ????....many people have answered this question already.....

    CB-23 is a best in reliability ....very fuel efficient...very trusty engine ...in my books....if u wud have been in isloo i would have visited u ...tok the car from u and have given it back to u once every thing wud have been in place ...but unfortunately u r in karachi so all i can do is to insist that if ur car is in good shape ...dont ruin it ...simple...

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    Thanks Xulfiqar,
    Okay now my priority is to get original CB stock engine.

    If not found in good quality, try to overhaul.

    If none, will go for swap as there is nothing I can do now. 21st century car costs more than my charade

    Considering third,
    What engine apart from CB-23 can be a good choice? (remember please 21st century)

    Also, do you have any contact of pakwheelers from Karachi who can help me in finding good engine, good mechanic and knows a bit of work to cross check mechanic? I will be glad to offer his service charges as that will require time.

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