Survey by Qualaroo
+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 38
Like Tree33Likes

Thread: New honda city design defect: Must read for owners

  1. #1
    PakWheeler Follow
    bnasir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Karachi
    Age
    41
    Posts
    106
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Problems Posted
    0
    Problems Solved
    0
    Best Answers
    0
    Good Answers
    0

    Default New honda city design defect: Must read for owners

    DEAR PAKWHEELERS - THIS IS A VERY IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR ALL HONDA CITY OWNERS - NEW SHAPE (MINE IS 2011). THERE IS A DESIGN DEFECT FROM THE COMPANY CAUSING SERIOUS PERFORMANCE ISSUES WHICH MANY OF US ARE WELL AWARE OF.

    PLEASE KEEP THIS POST ALIVE TO MAXIMUM NUMBER OF PEOPLE CAN BENEFIT.

    I had my Honda City 2011 manual transmission car delivered in November 2011. From day one i was not content with the way the car performed on low speeds. it would simply not go anywhere until i really put the pedal to the metal. first i thought the car was new etc etc and would come around once driven some more, when AC was turned on the car literally would hardly move from a rolling/stop position in second gear. And the engine would almost stall when going up my driveway - which has a very nominal incline, unless I gunned the engine for power. Even my dad thought the car was defective, as I had a 1998 city before this and in comparison the 1998 city felt like a sports car. The feeling i got was that the engine was choking. At high speeds the engine performed really well, indicative that the problem was at low speeds only. so it could be 2 things - either the car was choking for air or fuel on low revs. Also, a brand new car had difficulty starting in really cold weather. while my old car has no problem!!!

    Online I read all the things people did to try to solve this problem: from re-tuning the engine, using hi-octane, messing with the EFU etc etc. all very expensive and inappropriate solutions. not too mention allowing roadside mechanics to mess with your new cars. i even read that honda engineers were contacted and could not solve the problem.

    Then i popped the hood one fine weekend and spotted the problem in 5 seconds (i'm a mechanical engineer btw in case it helps the credibility of this thread). I couldn't believe the Honda engineers can be so daft.

    THE PROBLEM VERY SIMPLY IS THE AIR INTAKE SHROUD THAT IS ATTACHED ON THE UNDERSIDE OF THE CARS HOOD WITH 5 CLIPS. SEE PICTURES.

    If you look closely, the air intake extends from the engine all the way to the front of the car and settles right behind the car frame above the radiator. Thh other end of it connects to the engine area. So I ask the Honda engineers, if you block off the air entry into the intake, how does the car run properly? the poor choking for air. When I saw this all the pieces of the puzzles fell into place. low end poor performance, bad petrol mileage, good performance when engine is revved.

    If you look closely at your air intake mouth you will notice the dust patterns are only covering 30% of the area. it shows you that the intake is being poorly utilized. at low speeds there is simply not enough pull from the engine ti suck in enough air. it's like i'm putting my hand over my mouth and trying to breathe. i would be gasping for air.

    Long story short, what do you do? simply remove the 5 plastic tabs and take the air intake off (its made of rubber) and allow the engine to breathe. Go ahead test it out. you can always put it back on. all you need is a small screw driver to fix it. one small flathead screwdriver for ALL YOUR HONDA CITY PERFORMANCE WOES. if you haven't messed with the car engine etc etc it will fix your performance problems. GUARANTEED. Brothers. GUARANTEED. Ok, so you are not comfortable leaving the shroud off, then do what i did. I cut the front end a few inches to create a gap between the engine frame and intake mouth. see pics. Works well. all the problems are GONE (with the wind). My mileage has improved and car is smoooottthhhh. now I like my car.

    if this fixes your problem as well, remember me in your prayers.

    Thanks
    Regards,

    Bee





    New honda city design defect Must read for owners -352243

    New honda city design defect Must read for owners -352244

    New honda city design defect Must read for owners -352245


  2. #2
    PakWheeler Follow
    Valhalla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Karachi
    Age
    36
    Posts
    88
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Problems Posted
    0
    Problems Solved
    0
    Best Answers
    0
    Good Answers
    0

    Default

    Hmmm...

    I was under the impression that the sluggish accelerator symptoms was caused by the DBW system on the car. I have driven other cars with no accelerator cable and they too bog when you depress the accelerator all the way down before all of a sudden taking off

    Older models with the accelerator cable attached to the throttle body were very responsive. Its a software issue which can be addressed. The CL9 also hesitates before taking off, same as the new city AT and both have DBW. The lag is inherent in smaller cars than bigger ones. After the initial lag, the city takes off like normal

    You may be on to something but i am a bit skeptical as to how such a design flaw would pass honda engineers when selling a car. All these acceleration issue (I feel) are being caused by the lag of the DBW system on the car which is amplified by the fact that its a 1300cc.

  3. #3
    PakWheeler Follow
    FederalAgent's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Islamabad
    Age
    36
    Posts
    505
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Problems Posted
    0
    Problems Solved
    0
    Best Answers
    0
    Good Answers
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bnasir View Post
    If you look closely at your air intake mouth you will notice the dust patterns are only covering 30% of the area. it shows you that the intake is being poorly utilized. at low speeds there is simply not enough pull from the engine ti suck in enough air. it's like i'm putting my hand over my mouth and trying to breathe. i would be gasping for air.
    Nice information, Thanks for sharing. I also have same shape but of 09 model. never felt any problem on low RPM it is responding well and consumption is also OK. but your article might help those who are feeling the same problem.
    I couldnt understand above quoted lines. " dust patterns are only covering 30% of the area" means there is a lot of dust which is choking the entrance? or the entrance mouth is pressed when closing the hood. or what.
    Failing to prepare is preparing to fail.

  4. #4
    PakWheeler Follow
    bnasir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Karachi
    Age
    41
    Posts
    106
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Problems Posted
    0
    Problems Solved
    0
    Best Answers
    0
    Good Answers
    0

    Default

    Valhalla - The DBW could be an additional problem as well in cars. But this is def a problem in the new honda city. There is no harm in trying it out if someone's new city car with the same design as mine is sluggish. just pop it out, test your performance, and pop it back in if not happy with the fix. honda engineers make mistakes as do toyota engineers as do all other companies- hence the recalls. this is def one of the mistakes.

    Federal Agent - What i'm trying to say is that if you look at any car's air intake, and it is properly sucking air (air distribution at mouth is adequate), you will note that the intake mouth is relatively equally dusty. indicating air is being sucked evenly from all areas of the mouth. for the new city, because it is blocked, the only air that is seeping into the mouth is from in between the frame and the hood. that is showing as dust as only a thin line in the intake mouth. because my car was brand new and the intake was shiny clean, it was easy to spot after a few hundred miles how the air is flowing. flow testing is common in good engineering companies and a very important component of mechanical engineering where fluid and air (even thermal) dynamics are studied closely

  5. #5
    PakWheeler Follow
    FederalAgent's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Islamabad
    Age
    36
    Posts
    505
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Problems Posted
    0
    Problems Solved
    0
    Best Answers
    0
    Good Answers
    0

    Default

    ya got your point. Thanks.
    Failing to prepare is preparing to fail.

  6. #6
    Senior PakWheeler Follow
    rustam54's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Lahore
    Posts
    1,003
    Follows
    1
    Following
    0
    Mentioned
    113 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Problems Posted
    0
    Problems Solved
    0
    Best Answers
    0
    Good Answers
    0

    Default

    @Poster

    I am gonna have to disagree with your diagnosis. The plastic thing you just removed is installed to fetch fresh (cold) air right from the engine front (above radiator) as oppesed to engine breathing through hot air being passed from the raditor and engine bay (which is at a higher temp. than atmosphere).

    The one installed in your city was already cut. I think you bought a second hand one and didnt know that. The full dimensions of the cold intake is as follows

    New honda city design defect: Must read for owners - 75429d1228145294 honda city 1 5 s home today airflow

    Also, start your car, open your hood, place your hand directly on the port installed before filter. Try to block it. You will notice that the engine would still be running. You wont feel any vaccum (as opposed to directly placing your hand on an idling carby engine). Its the engine design about intake. If the idle to drive response were so much dependant on the dust blocking you were talking about, it would have choked right away.

    And yes, i would agree with the fellow member that its a DBW lag + Low quality fuel issue. Same happens with a blocked filter. They (Honda) tell you to chnage at 10K but its wise to install at 6-7K if are feeling too much lag from idle.
    The Soul's Journey After Death in Islam (www.bit.ly/SoulsJourney) -- Originally Shared by kse101

  7. #7
    Senior PakWheeler Follow
    rustam54's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Lahore
    Posts
    1,003
    Follows
    1
    Following
    0
    Mentioned
    113 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Problems Posted
    0
    Problems Solved
    0
    Best Answers
    0
    Good Answers
    0

    Default

    Honda (or any other manufacturer- for that matter) can remove useful equipment/accesory from a car to cut costs, but they would never throw in something if it were'nt required.

    The same goes for radiator coolant valve (which most suzuki owners get removed) Everything has a purpose. You just need to consider all the factors that were gathered by OEM engineers brainstorming day and night for design success.

    CORRECTION That coolant valve is called Jiggle Valve.
    The Soul's Journey After Death in Islam (www.bit.ly/SoulsJourney) -- Originally Shared by kse101

  8. #8
    PakWheeler Follow
    MalikAz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Lahore
    Age
    41
    Posts
    163
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Problems Posted
    0
    Problems Solved
    0
    Best Answers
    0
    Good Answers
    0

    Default

    well, any comments from experts and city owners?
    .

  9. #9
    Senior PakWheeler Follow
    Legal_rebel's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    N/A
    Age
    30
    Posts
    1,731
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Problems Posted
    0
    Problems Solved
    0
    Best Answers
    0
    Good Answers
    0

    Default

    Wehem!
    Your grandchildren will likely find it incredible - or even sinful - that you burned up a gallon of gasoline to fetch a pack of cigarettes!

  10. #10
    PakWheeler Follow
    kamranlaeeq's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Lahore
    Age
    40
    Posts
    76
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Problems Posted
    0
    Problems Solved
    0
    Best Answers
    0
    Good Answers
    0

    Default

    I have not tried it but it is very hard to digest that Engineers at HONDA International made that blunder.

    The same model is being used in reset of the world ......

    Any way ........ users facing problem in their CITIES must check it out

  11. #11
    PakWheeler Follow
    imran2d's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Shaikhupura
    Posts
    172
    Follows
    1
    Following
    0
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Problems Posted
    0
    Problems Solved
    0
    Best Answers
    0
    Good Answers
    0

    Exclamation

    It is very hard to challange Honda Engineers as Honda gives life time gurantee of their machine if we follow the maintenance schedule. Did the Honda city owner bring his car to Honda Service center as it was under warranty????

    anyway cheers!
    we should be proud of safe driving.

  12. #12
    Senior PakWheeler Follow
    aqs29's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Hyderabad
    Posts
    3,129
    Follows
    1
    Following
    0
    Mentioned
    16 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Problems Posted
    0
    Problems Solved
    0
    Best Answers
    0
    Good Answers
    0

    Default

    Very informative. I had a zero meter mid 09 City but I nvr xprnced any such problem

  13. #13
    Senior PakWheeler Follow
    hash4u's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Islamabad
    Age
    38
    Posts
    24,366
    Follows
    18
    Following
    0
    Mentioned
    404 Post(s)
    Tagged
    13 Thread(s)
    Problems Posted
    0
    Problems Solved
    4
    Best Answers
    3
    Good Answers
    13

    Default

    this is a major defect you are talking about
    if that was the case in every city, it would have failed with such low end torque issues
    i have driven 2 cities(new shape), both of them had no problems at low rpm's

    the question which comes in my mind is why was this problem in your particular car
    Life is short and very unpredictable just like a Quarter mile .....

  14. #14
    PakWheeler Follow
    kazmi_muzammil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Hyde Park
    Posts
    813
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Problems Posted
    0
    Problems Solved
    0
    Best Answers
    0
    Good Answers
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rustam54 View Post
    Honda (or any other manufacturer- for that matter) can remove useful equipment/accesory from a car to cut costs, but they would never throw in something if it were'nt required.

    The same goes for radiator coolant valve (which most suzuki owners get removed) Everything has a purpose. You just need to consider all the factors gathered by team of engineers brainstorming day and night for design success.
    Very well said my friend Rustam... I also disagree with the mechanics who stupidly pull out the Radiator coolant valve... This really puts your engine life in threat because the oil does not retain the desired temperature it should to flow while the engine is running.. Hence people should stop their mechanics from removing the valve forcefully to give you peace of mind that temperature is now lower than before\ and hang their mechanics by the neck if they do so esp. mehran owners... I dont remember it being called radiator coolant valve.. just too sleepy i cant remember the exact name for it...

    I remember my mechanic stripping it off my Honda city 1998 1.5 EFI. I literally had to beat up the hell out of him... Then he placed it back...

    P.S friends i am thinking that someone start a thread of warning others of dangerous foolish mechanics they should stay off and avoid getting their cars being done from there...

  15. #15
    Senior PakWheeler Follow
    speedster_101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Islamabad
    Posts
    3,447
    Follows
    2
    Following
    0
    Mentioned
    54 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Problems Posted
    0
    Problems Solved
    0
    Best Answers
    1
    Good Answers
    0

    Default

    I am a City owner. I have bought brand new Honda City M/T in August 2011. I don't feel any problem at low RPM, no knocking or lag issues. Infact the car is very very fast. Very enjoyable drive. (I also have 1.8L M/T Altis so I am not over rating it)
    It might be a problem with your ride but happy to listen that you are somehow satisfied now.
    "The more we sweat in peace, the less we bleed in war"

  16. #16
    Senior PakWheeler Follow
    Xulfiqar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Other
    Age
    38
    Posts
    24,400
    Follows
    131
    Following
    0
    Mentioned
    3988 Post(s)
    Tagged
    94 Thread(s)
    Problems Posted
    0
    Problems Solved
    4
    Best Answers
    0
    Good Answers
    6

    Default

    rustam is 100% correct, The pressure in the airbox before the airfilter is atmospheric and when the throttle blade is opened up for low rpm movement very slight air is required (its not an unthrottled diesel that will suck the flesh off your hand) A very simple test is to put some cardboard over the port where the air scoop sits into and see what time it takes for the engine to suffocate and stall.

    your problem is more related to something else than air induction, and please get the correct uncut airscoop. mind you when the car is moving there is considerable air flow into this scoop.
    ZRS - Zulfiqar Racing Systems ..... - professionals at work - at crackwheels.com

  17. #17
    PakWheeler Follow
    AbuJamal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Lahore
    Age
    39
    Posts
    805
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Problems Posted
    0
    Problems Solved
    0
    Best Answers
    0
    Good Answers
    0

    Default

    Salam, I have a City 2010. the air intake is the same size as the one showed by BNasir Sb. I guess the extended air intake as shown in rustam's picture is for cars in international markets.

    I will try the solution proposed by Bnasir Sb today and share my experience. My car had the same issue and it was frustrating in the beginning. Having driven the car for 36k KM now, i have learned the technique, so to speak.
    http://www.pakwheels.com/forumreply_az_TopicID!53562~ForumID!29~pw.html

  18. #18
    PakWheeler Follow
    FederalAgent's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Islamabad
    Age
    36
    Posts
    505
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Problems Posted
    0
    Problems Solved
    0
    Best Answers
    0
    Good Answers
    0

    Default

    abujamal sb,

    The intake pic of rustam's is oki and we all have the same scoop, in my 09 city have the same one, some one might altered your scoop already.
    Failing to prepare is preparing to fail.

  19. #19
    Senior PakWheeler Follow
    Xulfiqar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Other
    Age
    38
    Posts
    24,400
    Follows
    131
    Following
    0
    Mentioned
    3988 Post(s)
    Tagged
    94 Thread(s)
    Problems Posted
    0
    Problems Solved
    4
    Best Answers
    0
    Good Answers
    6

    Default

    If the removal of the scoop resolved the problem fully, you should check what happens to the scoop when you close the bonnet shut, use a bright light to inspect. see if its collapsing
    ZRS - Zulfiqar Racing Systems ..... - professionals at work - at crackwheels.com

  20. #20
    Senior PakWheeler Follow
    fawadakbarkhan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Islamabad
    Age
    100
    Posts
    6,218
    Follows
    4
    Following
    0
    Mentioned
    143 Post(s)
    Tagged
    52 Thread(s)
    Problems Posted
    0
    Problems Solved
    0
    Best Answers
    0
    Good Answers
    0

    Thumbs up

    hmmm.. well, me too got a city. but it has no problems at low rpms... even when launching from 2nd gear, there are no issues as far as I can tell...

    and I simply love the air intake honda has given to it cz the car is as much responsive at 150kmh+ speeds as a 2.4L accord or camry... mine keeps me happy....!


    New honda city design defect Must read for owners -352803

    New honda city design defect Must read for owners -352804
    Agar chy bu'tt' hain Jama'at ki Aasteenon main - Mujhay Hai Hukm-e-Aazaan LA ILA HA ILL ALLAH...!

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

User Tag List

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •