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Thread: New honda city design defect: Must read for owners

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    Default New honda city design defect: Must read for owners

    DEAR PAKWHEELERS - THIS IS A VERY IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR ALL HONDA CITY OWNERS - NEW SHAPE (MINE IS 2011). THERE IS A DESIGN DEFECT FROM THE COMPANY CAUSING SERIOUS PERFORMANCE ISSUES WHICH MANY OF US ARE WELL AWARE OF.

    PLEASE KEEP THIS POST ALIVE TO MAXIMUM NUMBER OF PEOPLE CAN BENEFIT.

    I had my Honda City 2011 manual transmission car delivered in November 2011. From day one i was not content with the way the car performed on low speeds. it would simply not go anywhere until i really put the pedal to the metal. first i thought the car was new etc etc and would come around once driven some more, when AC was turned on the car literally would hardly move from a rolling/stop position in second gear. And the engine would almost stall when going up my driveway - which has a very nominal incline, unless I gunned the engine for power. Even my dad thought the car was defective, as I had a 1998 city before this and in comparison the 1998 city felt like a sports car. The feeling i got was that the engine was choking. At high speeds the engine performed really well, indicative that the problem was at low speeds only. so it could be 2 things - either the car was choking for air or fuel on low revs. Also, a brand new car had difficulty starting in really cold weather. while my old car has no problem!!!

    Online I read all the things people did to try to solve this problem: from re-tuning the engine, using hi-octane, messing with the EFU etc etc. all very expensive and inappropriate solutions. not too mention allowing roadside mechanics to mess with your new cars. i even read that honda engineers were contacted and could not solve the problem.

    Then i popped the hood one fine weekend and spotted the problem in 5 seconds (i'm a mechanical engineer btw in case it helps the credibility of this thread). I couldn't believe the Honda engineers can be so daft.

    THE PROBLEM VERY SIMPLY IS THE AIR INTAKE SHROUD THAT IS ATTACHED ON THE UNDERSIDE OF THE CARS HOOD WITH 5 CLIPS. SEE PICTURES.

    If you look closely, the air intake extends from the engine all the way to the front of the car and settles right behind the car frame above the radiator. Thh other end of it connects to the engine area. So I ask the Honda engineers, if you block off the air entry into the intake, how does the car run properly? the poor choking for air. When I saw this all the pieces of the puzzles fell into place. low end poor performance, bad petrol mileage, good performance when engine is revved.

    If you look closely at your air intake mouth you will notice the dust patterns are only covering 30% of the area. it shows you that the intake is being poorly utilized. at low speeds there is simply not enough pull from the engine ti suck in enough air. it's like i'm putting my hand over my mouth and trying to breathe. i would be gasping for air.

    Long story short, what do you do? simply remove the 5 plastic tabs and take the air intake off (its made of rubber) and allow the engine to breathe. Go ahead test it out. you can always put it back on. all you need is a small screw driver to fix it. one small flathead screwdriver for ALL YOUR HONDA CITY PERFORMANCE WOES. if you haven't messed with the car engine etc etc it will fix your performance problems. GUARANTEED. Brothers. GUARANTEED. Ok, so you are not comfortable leaving the shroud off, then do what i did. I cut the front end a few inches to create a gap between the engine frame and intake mouth. see pics. Works well. all the problems are GONE (with the wind). My mileage has improved and car is smoooottthhhh. now I like my car.

    if this fixes your problem as well, remember me in your prayers.

    Thanks
    Regards,

    Bee





    New honda city design defect Must read for owners -352243

    New honda city design defect Must read for owners -352244

    New honda city design defect Must read for owners -352245


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    leykin in bhai nai gari Nov 2011 mai lee hai aysa kaysa ho sakta hai k problem factory sai aay ho ? Honda dealership nai koi ghupla tou nahi kara ????

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    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by AbuJamal View Post
    Salam, I have a City 2010. the air intake is the same size as the one showed by BNasir Sb. I guess the extended air intake as shown in rustam's picture is for cars in international markets.

    I will try the solution proposed by Bnasir Sb today and share my experience. My car had the same issue and it was frustrating in the beginning. Having driven the car for 36k KM now, i have learned the technique, so to speak.
    Quote Originally Posted by rustam54 View Post
    @Poster

    I am gonna have to disagree with your diagnosis. The plastic thing you just removed is installed to fetch fresh (cold) air right from the engine front (above radiator) as oppesed to engine breathing through hot air being passed from the raditor and engine bay (which is at a higher temp. than atmosphere).

    The one installed in your city was already cut. I think you bought a second hand one and didnt know that. The full dimensions of the cold intake is as follows

    New honda city design defect: Must read for owners - 75429d1228145294 honda city 1 5 s home today airflow

    Also, start your car, open your hood, place your hand directly on the port installed before filter. Try to block it. You will notice that the engine would still be running. You wont feel any vaccum (as opposed to directly placing your hand on an idling carby engine). Its the engine design about intake. If the idle to drive response were so much dependant on the dust blocking you were talking about, it would have choked right away.

    And yes, i would agree with the fellow member that its a DBW lag + Low quality fuel issue. Same happens with a blocked filter. They (Honda) tell you to chnage at 10K but its wise to install at 6-7K if are feeling too much lag from idle.
    me too, am of the view that mr bnasir's car's air intake was already altered somehow...

    mine has the same as rustam bhai has shown... not only for international markets.... it is the same in PKDM city as well...
    Agar chy bu'tt' hain Jama'at ki Aasteenon main - Mujhay Hai Hukm-e-Aazaan LA ILA HA ILL ALLAH...!

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    nice discussion... with a lot of people reporting that their cars are normal even with the intake installed, i'd say there is really some issue with @poster's city , may be because the intake is cut. but to some extent, his statement makes sense as there wont be much air flowing through that channel sort of thing when the car is very slow.but yes it would certainly help after the car gains some good speed.
    i'd like to test this one though! i'd like to check how the car behaves with and without that intake channel at slow and high speeds...
    When the power of love exceeds the love for power, the world will finally know peace=Every man is guilty of all the good he didn't do

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    If your car has warranty and has issues with low rpm responsiveness, then call up your dealer and tell him that you will shove your car up a place in him where the sun dont shine.

    If they start to resort to desi duress, threats etc call up Atlas Honda cars Pakistan, if they dont help contact Honda Japan, For sure they wont want such problems.

    Aid yourself with videos and any data that can be helpful - the best way is to ask the dealer service dept to take out another car of similar kind and drive it - if they resort to desi assinine behaviour. I have dealt with such low lifes and have won when I got the Japs to stick their nose in.
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    At least city 04-05 is very sensitive to how much air is entering into engine on gas. On petrol even i put my hand and completely closing intake would make no difference.
    There are some do number filter in market as well, i had one and have to put extra blockage at intake. When changed to gaurd filter which was bit thick then previous filter and no need for blockage.

    @Xulfiqar shove .......................

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    i guess he didnt mention , his car might be on CNG , a disease itself ;P

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    Hi Guys - Thanks for your comments. Just wanted to give an update. Mileage before the mod was 13.6 km/l and now it is 14.3 km/l with no change in driving conditions, route or ac use. Maybe the problem was limited to my car but the mod sure did make a difference. Car is not on CNG.

    What else is funny about this model/my car is that when the AC compressor kicks in and the interior overhead light is on, it dims for half a second...anyone else see this in their cars...very strange...

    Also is it normal for the new citys to not increase Idle RPM when AC is on...all the other cars I have driven raised RPM through a vacuum switch....this one always stays at the original 700-800 RPM with or without AC at idle....

    Regards,
    Bee

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    your engine will keep its idle at the same speed no matter if the A/C is running or not, the vacuum pot you are talking about was used in carburettor engines, and it was supposed to be set to bring the rpm back to idle speed rather than raise it.
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    I have city 2010 and no such problem, may be poster vehicle got some exclusive problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bnasir View Post
    Hi Guys - Thanks for your comments. Just wanted to give an update. Mileage before the mod was 13.6 km/l and now it is 14.3 km/l with no change in driving conditions, route or ac use. Maybe the problem was limited to my car but the mod sure did make a difference. Car is not on CNG.

    What else is funny about this model/my car is that when the AC compressor kicks in and the interior overhead light is on, it dims for half a second...anyone else see this in their cars...very strange...

    Also is it normal for the new citys to not increase Idle RPM when AC is on...all the other cars I have driven raised RPM through a vacuum switch....this one always stays at the original 700-800 RPM with or without AC at idle....

    Regards,
    Bee

    Yes you are right about the light dimming part. Generally new cars these days dont do it. But this one does dim even the front beams for half a second. My guess is the alternator voltage regulator takes some time to regulate the dropped voltage on added load (in case of a compressor kick-in or even during radiator fan turn on) although it should not. I have tried checking it with multimeter. It drops and then gains back the voltage in 0.5 to 1 sec. As good as it stabilizes rpm's under load, it doesnt stabilize voltage that quick.

    But I must add, it can be due to infrequent car use (in my case) as the battery doesnt charge up that well on short and infrequent trips.
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    If your battery electrolyte is prepared with tap water - you will face such dimming, such dimming also occurs when the main ground cable to the engine is not clean enough
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xulfiqar View Post
    If your battery electrolyte is prepared with tap water - you will face such dimming, such dimming also occurs when the main ground cable to the engine is not clean enough
    Well you can be right about the engine ground. You should see how they grounded the chassis. Only one thin wire from battery negative to front hanger/ crash bar holding radiator assembly. And no direct wire to engine from battery. Maybe they were too conscious about ground loops.

    What's with the tap water and dimming relation?? Impurities should play a role in restricting full charge but not cause instantaneous dimming, right??? As if they act as a short circuit for a moment within battery plates??

    EDIT: I do get the tap water part. But what i dont get is why is the alternator taking so long to get back???
    The Soul's Journey After Death in Islam (www.bit.ly/SoulsJourney) -- Originally Shared by kse101

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    The tap water prevents the battery from holding a full charge because the plates usually sulfate quickly. That is why all demands are burdened on the alternator and the battery does not fulfill its reserve current function to the full.

    The alternator will also have a very tough life if the ground connections are not good, Ideally a good ground connection should be a direct to the transmission case and branching off to the body - the branching maybe just one or even have more than one connections.

    Just to test, take a jumper cable and connect the negative terminal to the cylinder head lifting hook, then try the headlamps dimming thing, you may find your culprit
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    Dear Rustum54 you replied very well to our engineer friend bnasir. I personally used the same vehicle since july 2010 and never experience such thing. I always used ordinary fuel and i quite frequently visit the hilly areas like shugran and it is fine. I think some people take more time to understand (Delayed adjustment). However i have a question about your suggestion "Same happens with a blocked filter" please mention which filter you talking about either a fuel or air filter.
    Regards

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Kazim View Post
    I have city 2010 and no such problem, may be poster vehicle got some exclusive problem.
    actually, every i-vtec city delivered before 2010 has this problem. The software that is installed in the ECU is somehow corrupt or is not designed properly.

    If anyone has this problem, just visit ur nearest honda dealership and ask them to update the ECU software. The problem will vanish.

    There is NO such thing as a design DEFECT...
    Agar chy bu'tt' hain Jama'at ki Aasteenon main - Mujhay Hai Hukm-e-Aazaan LA ILA HA ILL ALLAH...!

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    I recently received my honda city A/T (aka Prosmatec), which was booked way back in Nov 2011. I'm suffering from the same issue of lag in low RPM range (1st and 2nd gears). This lag gets severe and more noticeable when the car has been parked under the sun for a while. I have taken it to three different Honda dealerships all that they do is to reprogram the ECU and ask me to put hi-octane in it, but it has now been more than a week of me going to different Honda dealerships and the problem still persists.

    I'll try removing this intake shroud and see if it works. As far as DBW is concerned, I've driven a lot of other cars with DBW and most of them are very responsive.

    This thing has been a major worry for me since I've received the car, I hope bnasir's expertise work for me.

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    Probably felt a little lag in first gear. I've got '09 city, but i am quite satisfied with mileage (14.5 km/l).
    I never make the mistake of arguing with people for whose opinions I have no respect.
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    Its Vtec at low rpms it feels underpowered by default nothing else wrong
    Past cant be brought back ..but future can be made even better than the Past..if one wants to.. ....

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