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Thread: Honda iDSi gas charging, servicing, DIY, few Questions

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    Question Honda iDSi gas charging, servicing, DIY, few Questions

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    I am working on my iDSI Air Conditioning System, recently have installed a new Condenser and Receiver Dryer, Got the Compressor taken off, Replaced R134a Oil in compressor and have the evaporator cleaned up. Now I am trying to recharge the gas all by myself. Equipment I have is Air Conditioning Suction Machine, Pressure gauges, Adopters, R134a gas and Ambient Pressure Temperature Charts and R134a Pressure Temperature charts and UNI-T UT33C Multimeter with an option to measure temperature in Fahrenheit and Centigrade plus knowledge I have gained through reading few books.

    I have measured the Ambient Air temperature with Ambient Air Temperature Pressure charts in front of me, I have charged the system to the pressures as suppose to be on Low Side and High Side. I was facing few issues as I wanted an opinion from an expert. Although, system has been charged with a refrigerant in accordance with its chart, I am not satisfied with its cooling. Temperature which I get on vents ranges from 50 F to 62 F while vehicle is idling and once running it goes below till 49 F.

    Questions: Measured at 32 C, low pressure line pressures supposed to be 45- 55 PSI, whereas High Pressure line Pressures suppose to be 250 to 270 PSI and while car is idling pressures fall under the same ranges whereas once RPM is increased then on one stroke of compressor low pressure line pressure goes to 60 PSI whereas high Pressure line pressure drops to 200 PSI or even below and on another cycle once RPM is increased low pressure line pressure drops below 30 PSI whereas High Pressure Line pressure goes upto 350 PSI. don?t understand if I have filled the gas properly or not.

    Question:
    Why does High Pressure line gauge needle vibrates plus minus 5 PSI.

    Have understood what superheat and subcooling is and will be calculating that later and will share it with members.

    Duct temperature while idling remains between 55 F to 63 F on i-Dsi while idling at 800 RPM
    Duct Temperature on brand new Corolla 2013 remains between 50 to 56 F while idling at 800 RPM
    Duct Temperature on Old corolla 2007 remains between 40 to 45 F while idling. Best
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    How You Charge The Gas..........What Procedures Do You Follow...........!

    Vacuum Time........Leak Check And How Much Refrigerant You Charged???????

    B.t.w for How Much You Get That Vacuum Pump For?????
    TOYOTA Sprinter 86- AE80 DOHC 20v'D TOYOTA Corolla 98- AE101 4AFE 16v

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    Quote Originally Posted by SER_GTR View Post
    How You Charge The Gas..........What Procedures Do You Follow...........!

    Vacuum Time........Leak Check And How Much Refrigerant You Charged???????

    B.t.w for How Much You Get That Vacuum Pump For?????

    First, I have created a good vacuum using professional Air Conditioning suction machine which I have bought last summer’s for around 7000 Rs roughly.

    Machine was allowed to run for an hour on suction line, where later suction valve was closed and machine was allowed to run for 10 more minutes further on discharge line. Needle on suction line was very close to 30 in Hg once machine was stopped whereas I was confused as discharge gauge did not had any indication on vacuum range.

    Ambient temperature was measured using the UNI-T meter which was exposed to Ambient temperature for around 15 minutes. Then I referred to R134a temperature pressure chart and against the ambient temperature as measured earlier correspondingly gas was charged from suction port in accordance to the chart as shown above.

    P.S: sorry, I forgot to do anything regarding the leak check as I forgot to let the vacuum remain there for an hour.

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    Well You Did It Quiet Good....! Yes This Vacuum Pump COmes Quiet Handy And Is Effective.....Right Investment...I Am Also Looking For One

    ANyways......For Vacuum.....Mostly Pull Vacuum On Both Low Pressure And high Pressure Line....Timing Is All Good...Do It For 1 Hour...!

    Then Close Vacuum Pump So As Your Valves On Gauge Set And Look For Vacuum Drop On Low Pressure Side.....Leave It For 15-20min...The Pullled Vacuum Which Will Be Like Almost 29-30 HG..SHould Not Drop......If It Does.....There's A Leak

    ( Vacuum Reading Only Shows On Low Side Gauge...High Side Gauge Don't Have Vacuum Readings...) If It Goes All Good....

    If You Want To Change Dryer.....1st Pull Vacuum For 15min On System And Close Gauge And Check For Leaks....If No Leaks Found....Then Open The Old Dryer And Install The New Dryer fast As Good As Within 2-3min.......(Don't Open new Dryer 1st ..Open It When U Just Need to Install) After Installation...Pull Vacuum For Good 1 Hour On Both Suction And Pressure Line.......! After Vacuum...Just Close The Valves And Pump.....Disconnect The Valve And Install It Fast In Your Charging Cylinder........And STart You Car And A/C....

    Need To Add Compressor Oil In Small Amount If You Evacuate The Whole System(With Refrigerent ...Oil Is Also Lost )

    From Here...Note That There's 3 Method You Can Do

    No 1:: Weight Method.....If You Car Is All ON OEM Factory Fitting Pipes And System.....There's Should Be Refrigerent Type And Its Quanity Mentioned On The Car (Sticker Somewhere Or Inside Manual Or Ask HONDA 3s).......! Simply Charge That Weight Of Gas.....(+/-3-5%)....Easy Way Out

    No 2:: Pressure Check :: Like Mostly A/C Technicians Do......Just Have A Good Guess And Charge The Gas....Note Pressure Readings And Cooling Inside....Checking Duct Temp And Tweak It.....!

    No 3:ub Cooling Technique:: Used In TXV Type Metering Systems........Ideal To Calculate Effeciency Of System.......Note The High Pressure Line reading And Convert It Into Temp Using P/T Chart......Using Effecient Remote Probe Type Or Clamp Type Thermometer.....For probe..Cover It Nicely After Connecting With Line To Get Effecient Stable reading...
    Note The Temp Of Pressure Line....(Closer To Where You Read Pressure From) ....

    The Sub-Cooling Should Be Like 9-12 Degrees F....! Adjust Accordingly By Charging Or Releasing Excess Refrigerent....!!

    Note:: You need Extremely Effecient Line Temp Reading Else You Will Have Innaccurate Readings Resulting In No Good Calculation..Also The Condensor Effeciency Should Be Kept In Mind And It Depends Also On Your AMBIENT Temp...Yes That Changes During Day Time And Night ..The Difference Can Come As Expected That's Why Its Mostly Used In Home Air Conditioning SUperheat And Sub-cooling Where Everything Is Fixed.(Outlet Temp....Inlet Temp...And So)


    The Best Way Is To Add Refrigerent By Weight And Adjust (+/-5) With Pressure And Ambiet Temp ALong With Duct Temp....Rule Of Thumb Say You Will See A Difference Of 25 Degree Celcius B.w Ambiemt And Duct Temp

    Hope This Helps
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    Note All These And Do It 2nd Time As Best As You Do....

    If You Pickup Refrigerent Filled From Shop In Cylinder..Vacuum That Cylinder 1st Also.......!

    A Good r134a KLEA Bottles Are Available Also......

    Its Good To Do It Your Way....You Save Lot Of Time.......Money....And Do It Better Than All Of Them...!

    And Use Better Quality Stuff As You Want..... With A Lot Of Satisfaction.......!
    TOYOTA Sprinter 86- AE80 DOHC 20v'D TOYOTA Corolla 98- AE101 4AFE 16v

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    Quote Originally Posted by SER_GTR View Post
    Note All These And Do It 2nd Time As Best As You Do....

    If You Pickup Refrigerent Filled From Shop In Cylinder..Vacuum That Cylinder 1st Also.......!

    A Good r134a KLEA Bottles Are Available Also......

    Its Good To Do It Your Way....You Save Lot Of Time.......Money....And Do It Better Than All Of Them...!

    And Use Better Quality Stuff As You Want..... With A Lot Of Satisfaction.......!
    <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:TrackMoves/> <w:TrackFormatting/> <wunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <waveIfXMLInvalid>false</waveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <woNotPromoteQF/> <w:LidThemeOther>EN-US</w:LidThemeOther> <w:LidThemeAsian>X-NONE</w:LidThemeAsian> <w:LidThemeComplexScript>X-NONE</w:LidThemeComplexScript> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <wnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <wontGrowAutofit/> <wplitPgBreakAndParaMark/> <wontVertAlignCellWithSp/> <wontBreakConstrainedForcedTables/> <wontVertAlignInTxbx/> <w:Word11KerningPairs/> <w:CachedColBalance/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> <m:mathPr> <m:mathFont m:val="Cambria Math"/> <m:brkBin m:val="before"/> <m:brkBinSub m:val="--"/> <m:smallFrac m:val="off"/> <m:dispDef/> <m:lMargin m:val="0"/> <m:rMargin m:val="0"/> <m:defJc m:val="centerGroup"/> <m:wrapIndent m:val="1440"/> <m:intLim m:val="subSup"/> <m:naryLim m:val="undOvr"/> </m:mathPr></w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> Yup, this machine is very handy and a very good investment for any house. You need this machine on Home Split Air Conditioners, Auto Air Conditioners, Window Air Conditioners and I have also used it to flush Brake oil/Clutch Oil from Vehicle. I bought it from F-9 sector, wholesale Air Conditioning part sellers. Air Conditioning Professionals Rip you off once it comes to gas charging either on home Split Air Conditioning or Auto Air Conditioning. These people charge maximum profit margin on gas charging which is an easiest job among all the Air Conditioning Servicing.

    I already had an half used can of “freezer R134a 1000 Grams” which was also utilized during gas charging that’s why I could not keep a tab on quantity. I guess, best you need to fill in accordance to Ambient Pressure Temperature charts and later do fine adjustments after measuring superheat and sub cooling.
    Receiver drying was replaced by the mechanic once condenser was being changed and system was empty on refrigerant.

    Some-pictures below which I took earlier whiling doing a brake/clutch job. <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" DefUnhideWhenUsed="true" DefSemiHidden="true" DefQFormat="false" DefPriority="99" LatentStyleCount="267"> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="0" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Normal"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="heading 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 7"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" 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    Honda iDSi gas charging servicing DIY few Questions -1216332
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  7. #7
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    Kindly comment on this.

    Can anyone shed light on this bizarre behavior, refrigerant charged at 32 C Ambient temperature to range 40-55 psi suction line and 250 to 275 discharge line. But once engine rpm is increase then pressure on suction line drops to 20-25 psi whereas that of High pressure line increases and goes beyond 350 psi.

  8. #8
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    Here I Get Prices ...Its For Like 10k Here..I Will Get One For My Work Also...Yes It Can Bleed Brakes Quiet Easily With One Person....Just Need To Top The Fluid In Front....!

    Weight Scale Can Make It Pretty Much easy For You..........!!!

    You Talking About Compressor On/Off Cycle...?????? When Compressor Is On......Suction Increase Making Low Side Down And It Creates Compression Making High Side Up....

    When It Goes Of.......It Reduces The High Side And Low Side Will Do Up Again......
    TOYOTA Sprinter 86- AE80 DOHC 20v'D TOYOTA Corolla 98- AE101 4AFE 16v

  9. #9
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    I Read That Also...U Mean On High RPM...

    Logic Simply Says That When U Revv Engine.....Compressor Sucks More And Create More Pressure

    So It Goes Like .....Low Pressure Drops Down And Suction Increase And Compression Increase resulting In High Pressure.....
    TOYOTA Sprinter 86- AE80 DOHC 20v'D TOYOTA Corolla 98- AE101 4AFE 16v

  10. #10
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    You need to get hold of the service manual for your car. It will list the gas charging procedure and it will have the proper temperature charts specific to your vehicle and also how much refrigerant by weight needs to be added.

    For eg. Below is a chart for the 96-98 Civic

    Honda iDSi gas charging servicing DIY few Questions -1216989Honda iDSi gas charging servicing DIY few Questions -1216990
    Never argue with an idiot, they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

  11. #11
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    <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:TrackMoves/> <w:TrackFormatting/> <wunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <waveIfXMLInvalid>false</waveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <woNotPromoteQF/> <w:LidThemeOther>EN-US</w:LidThemeOther> <w:LidThemeAsian>X-NONE</w:LidThemeAsian> <w:LidThemeComplexScript>X-NONE</w:LidThemeComplexScript> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <wnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <wontGrowAutofit/> <wplitPgBreakAndParaMark/> <wontVertAlignCellWithSp/> <wontBreakConstrainedForcedTables/> <wontVertAlignInTxbx/> <w:Word11KerningPairs/> <w:CachedColBalance/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> <m:mathPr> <m:mathFont m:val="Cambria Math"/> <m:brkBin m:val="before"/> <m:brkBinSub m:val="--"/> <m:smallFrac m:val="off"/> <m:dispDef/> <m:lMargin m:val="0"/> <m:rMargin m:val="0"/> <m:defJc m:val="centerGroup"/> <m:wrapIndent m:val="1440"/> <m:intLim m:val="subSup"/> <m:naryLim m:val="undOvr"/> </m:mathPr></w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> Thanking you so much, problem resolved till quiet a good extent as I was making a major mistake. RPM should had been maintained at 2000 RPM or 1500 RPM. System was way too much over charged, any way was able to get rid of the extra gas, I was able to reduce the pressure on Discharge Line in accordance to the Ambient Temperature Pressure chart.

    Still at 29 C Ambient temperature, according to the charts the pressure on suction line should be 45- 55 PSI whereas on discharge line it should be 225 to 250 PSI. I am getting a good reading on discharge line whereas pressure on suction line remains below 30 PSI which is against the chart.


    Temperature on vents now shows reading between 44 F to 53 F.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by whiteangel View Post
    You need to get hold of the service manual for your car. It will list the gas charging procedure and it will have the proper temperature charts specific to your vehicle and also how much refrigerant by weight needs to be added.

    For eg. Below is a chart for the 96-98 Civic

    Honda iDSi gas charging servicing DIY few Questions -1216989Honda iDSi gas charging servicing DIY few Questions -1216990
    sorry service manual is an issue for this vehicle, not easily available. if somebody has it then kindly share here.

  13. #13
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    Yes RPM Need To Be Maintained While Charging Gas To Around 1500-2000.....!

    That's Why Its Recommended To Charged As per Weight On 1st GO And Tweak It .....!!

    The Results You Have Are Quiet Good.......You Can Try for 35Psi And See If It Can Get better...30 Or Below 30 Is On Low Side....
    TOYOTA Sprinter 86- AE80 DOHC 20v'D TOYOTA Corolla 98- AE101 4AFE 16v

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by SER_GTR View Post
    Yes RPM Need To Be Maintained While Charging Gas To Around 1500-2000.....!

    That's Why Its Recommended To Charged As per Weight On 1st GO And Tweak It .....!!

    The Results You Have Are Quiet Good.......You Can Try for 35Psi And See If It Can Get better...30 Or Below 30 Is On Low Side....
    <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:TrackMoves/> <w:TrackFormatting/> <wunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <waveIfXMLInvalid>false</waveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <woNotPromoteQF/> <w:LidThemeOther>EN-US</w:LidThemeOther> <w:LidThemeAsian>X-NONE</w:LidThemeAsian> <w:LidThemeComplexScript>X-NONE</w:LidThemeComplexScript> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <wnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <wontGrowAutofit/> <wplitPgBreakAndParaMark/> <wontVertAlignCellWithSp/> <wontBreakConstrainedForcedTables/> <wontVertAlignInTxbx/> <w:Word11KerningPairs/> <w:CachedColBalance/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> <m:mathPr> <m:mathFont m:val="Cambria Math"/> <m:brkBin m:val="before"/> <m:brkBinSub m:val="--"/> <m:smallFrac m:val="off"/> <m:dispDef/> <m:lMargin m:val="0"/> <m:rMargin m:val="0"/> <m:defJc m:val="centerGroup"/> <m:wrapIndent m:val="1440"/> <m:intLim m:val="subSup"/> <m:naryLim m:val="undOvr"/> </m:mathPr></w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> Yes, I was not maintaining rpm earlier, maybe low suction pressure maybe an issue with blocked evaporator coils or bad expansion valve. Will try to clean it again and see if it works.

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  15. #15
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    Change Expansion Valve With Its OEM Replacement If You Ever Change.......Don't Buy Any Other Available.....
    TOYOTA Sprinter 86- AE80 DOHC 20v'D TOYOTA Corolla 98- AE101 4AFE 16v

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    Hello there,
    Bro i've got a stupid thing to ask about, i've got a Honda City Idsi, its compressor was too noisy, prolly the bearing was the problematic, so i was like okay would change it in a couple of days, cooling was tremendous, but unfortunately compressor's clutch went broke, the mechanic asked me to get it fixed from Bilal gunj and rather than getting it fixed this guy in bilal gunj charged me 2500Rs and replaced it saying "apke walay ki shaft be ghiss pitt chuki ye wo" i was like okay fine....Note: No condenser along with the filter was changed durting the time of putting new compressor in and straight away gas was charged....since then AC is messed up...on idle temp AC doesnt work...if the car is running then it does cool a bit say about 5/10....tell me what to do? what changes or parts need to be replaced...
    Regards

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    Quote Originally Posted by sunny.hunny.9 View Post
    Hello there,
    Bro i've got a stupid thing to ask about, i've got a Honda City Idsi, its compressor was too noisy, prolly the bearing was the problematic, so i was like okay would change it in a couple of days, cooling was tremendous, but unfortunately compressor's clutch went broke, the mechanic asked me to get it fixed from Bilal gunj and rather than getting it fixed this guy in bilal gunj charged me 2500Rs and replaced it saying "apke walay ki shaft be ghiss pitt chuki ye wo" i was like okay fine....Note: No condenser along with the filter was changed durting the time of putting new compressor in and straight away gas was charged....since then AC is messed up...on idle temp AC doesnt work...if the car is running then it does cool a bit say about 5/10....tell me what to do? what changes or parts need to be replaced...
    Regards
    <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:TrackMoves/> <w:TrackFormatting/> <wunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <waveIfXMLInvalid>false</waveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <woNotPromoteQF/> <w:LidThemeOther>EN-US</w:LidThemeOther> <w:LidThemeAsian>X-NONE</w:LidThemeAsian> <w:LidThemeComplexScript>X-NONE</w:LidThemeComplexScript> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <wnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <wontGrowAutofit/> <wplitPgBreakAndParaMark/> <wontVertAlignCellWithSp/> <wontBreakConstrainedForcedTables/> <wontVertAlignInTxbx/> <w:Word11KerningPairs/> <w:CachedColBalance/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> <m:mathPr> <m:mathFont m:val="Cambria Math"/> <m:brkBin m:val="before"/> <m:brkBinSub m:val="--"/> <m:smallFrac m:val="off"/> <m:dispDef/> <m:lMargin m:val="0"/> <m:rMargin m:val="0"/> <m:defJc m:val="centerGroup"/> <m:wrapIndent m:val="1440"/> <m:intLim m:val="subSup"/> <m:naryLim m:val="undOvr"/> </m:mathPr></w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> I think, this bearing job could had been easily done for Rs 700, which may include 200 Rs of bearing and rest maximum 500 Rs of labor.


    Did he pulled the vacuum on the system, since compressor was down so I would had been wise if you could have drained the old oil and replaced it with new R134a oil.


    Most of them recharge the gas by a rough guess. Easiest method is to measure the Ambient Temperature, then read the Ambient Temperature pressure chart and charge from low side according to the scale on suction and discharge line as mentioned on the chart.

    Gas charging is easiest of the job with biggest profit margin. Any person with little knowledge on subject can do it himself.

    I think your problem is that he did not pulled the vacuum and did not charge according to the table.
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  18. #18
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    Yes it could be the same reason, i spoke to one of other mechanics i was with my friend as his "Suduki Meherbans" front axel inner and outer had to be replaced, he told me that it could be due to chocked bottle that is attached to the condenser, that should be vaccumed properly...if its not fixable, you have to replace it or whole condenser and do the whole process from the scratch.... i am confused, tell me what to do?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sunny.hunny.9 View Post
    Yes it could be the same reason, i spoke to one of other mechanics i was with my friend as his "Suduki Meherbans" front axel inner and outer had to be replaced, he told me that it could be due to chocked bottle that is attached to the condenser, that should be vaccumed properly...if its not fixable, you have to replace it or whole condenser and do the whole process from the scratch.... i am confused, tell me what to do?
    i think, you already got the filter bottle replaced. did he pulled the vacuum on the system

  20. #20
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    Nope, he did not do anything except fitting the new compressor that i bought of the Bilal Gunj i mean Kabuli one, and he gave the pressure with a compressor and thats it, Yes he did say that Back pressure of the new compressor is too much...he asked me to replace the condenser and bottle as well, and i was like leave it just fix it....as i didnt want to spend too much money....thats what really happend...

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