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Thread: Honda City iVTEC hypermiling

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    Smile Honda City iVTEC hypermiling

    AOA Guys,

    I'm calling Honda City iVTEC owners and need some tips for Hypermiling. With my driving style I'm getting almost 12km/l in city with AC on. I'm trying my best to follow hypermiling rules, BUT when a Honda mechanic took test drive of my car then he easily achieved upto 17km/l with AC on (in my same car without anything changed). I was like , I asked him how's he is driving? at what RPM should I shift gears? should I go for normal or slow acceleration etc... and he simply replied "bas sir normal driving kar raha hoon (with a wicked smile)"

    So calling Honda City owners about some Hypermiling tips to achieve atleast 15+ km/l

    JazakAllah!

    "May God keep you away from the venom of the cobra, the teeth of the tiger, and the revenge of the Afghans." ~Alexander the Great.

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    one question..how?

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    Quote Originally Posted by saboor73 View Post
    Unnecessary use of hioctane can cause damage to engine
    That's hard to believe. Higher RON value is better. Hi octane In Pakistan is RON 91. This is called regular worldwide. All basic Cars use this RON 91 as daily fuel in all countries.
    Then comes RON 95, RON 98 and then RON 100.

    Pakistan used super or regular is RON 87.


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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenBeret View Post
    That's hard to believe. Higher RON value is better. Hi octane In Pakistan is RON 91. This is called regular worldwide. All basic Cars use this RON 91 as daily fuel in all countries.
    Then comes RON 95, RON 98 and then RON 100.

    Pakistan used super or regular is RON 87.


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    Please specify what becomes better? Better power? Fuel economy? Less knocking? Will this apply universally to gasoline engines, no matter the ignition timing curve or compression ratio?
    _ 22 km/l from '03 VTi automatic, with plenty of room for improvement
    _ How to hypermile: http://www.cleanmpg.com/community/index.php?threads/1510/

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZainMahdi View Post
    Please specify what becomes better? Better power? Fuel economy? Less knocking? Will this apply universally to gasoline engines, no matter the ignition timing curve or compression ratio?
    Sorry for late reply.

    An engine needs a minimum level of octane to avoid ping, which is caused by uncontrolled combustion of fuel inside the cylinders. Excessive ping can severely damage the engine. The octane rating on the gasoline is a measure of its anti-knock or anti-ping properties.
    If your car does not ping on regular, then there is no reason to seek a higher-octane gasoline. The anti-knock level of the regular in this case is adequate for the engine.
    But as a car gets older, depending on how the car has been driven and cared for, it may need a higher-octane gasoline anytime between four and six years. That's because carbon deposits inside the cylinders raise the combustion ratio, which in turn raises the engine's octane rating. You may notice that your car operated fine on regular fuel when it was new, but pings on regular as it gets older. So, the higher-octane fuel is not something to pamper a new car with but rather help keep an older car running properly.
    In addition, higher octane gasoline has some other selling points. Most have a higher-quality additive package put in at the refinery. The actual additives in a particular brand of gasoline are generally not disclosed by refiners. But usually they include detergents and other solvents that keep the carburetor and rest of the fuel system clean.

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    This copy pasted article basically says that carbon builds up in the combustion chamber as the car ages; such a car will ping and require high octane.

    What it doesn't say is that instead of fixing the problem, you are aggravating it; using high octane in an engine, that was not designed to run on it, will result in more incomplete combustion; this will lead to further residual build up in the combustion chambers. Eventually that will lead to pinging even when using high octane.

    Also, higher quality additive pack in high octane? That information is simply false; regular petrol has all the cleaning properties you need to keep the combustion chamber clean; I wish I could have shown here the combustion chambers of my Cultus at 315k km (high octane almost never used); you couldn't have guessed the mileage of the engine by looking at them.
    _ 22 km/l from '03 VTi automatic, with plenty of room for improvement
    _ How to hypermile: http://www.cleanmpg.com/community/index.php?threads/1510/

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZainMahdi View Post
    This copy pasted article basically says that carbon builds up in the combustion chamber as the car ages; such a car will ping and require high octane.

    What it doesn't say is that instead of fixing the problem, you are aggravating it; using high octane in an engine, that was not designed to run on it, will result in more incomplete combustion; this will lead to further residual build up in the combustion chambers. Eventually that will lead to pinging even when using high octane.

    Also, higher quality additive pack in high octane? That information is simply false; regular petrol has all the cleaning properties you need to keep the combustion chamber clean; I wish I could have shown here the combustion chambers of my Cultus at 315k km (high octane almost never used); you couldn't have guessed the mileage of the engine by looking at them.
    Your experience with cultus may not be universally acclaimed as a standard however I have seen many drivers of old cars shifting from RON 91 to 98 to counter anti knocking problems with Satisfying results.


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    And yes cultus is a low class car as compared to V6 and V8 so no surprises here.


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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenBeret View Post
    Your experience with cultus may not be universally acclaimed as a standard however I have seen many drivers of old cars shifting from RON 91 to 98 to counter anti knocking problems with Satisfying results.


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    Those drivers are simply burning their wallets, and getting carbpn deposits in their combustion chamber. When a car starts to knock, its supposed to be diagnosed and the problem corrected; stop gap measures like this simply create more problems in the long run.
    _ 22 km/l from '03 VTi automatic, with plenty of room for improvement
    _ How to hypermile: http://www.cleanmpg.com/community/index.php?threads/1510/

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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenBeret View Post
    And yes cultus is a low class car as compared to V6 and V8 so no surprises here.


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    Whether its in a '75 Trabant or a 2016 Huracan, an internal combustion engine follows the same principles. A v8 designed for regular petrol will run fine on regular petrol; it will also get all the detergents it needs from the same.
    _ 22 km/l from '03 VTi automatic, with plenty of room for improvement
    _ How to hypermile: http://www.cleanmpg.com/community/index.php?threads/1510/

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZainMahdi View Post
    Whether its in a '75 Trabant or a 2016 Huracan, an internal combustion engine follows the same principles. A v8 designed for regular petrol will run fine on regular petrol; it will also get all the detergents it needs from the same.
    The regular fuel for a V8 is RON 95 or above, like recommended 98. Pakistan has more i4's and 3 cyl than V6 or V8 and most people in Pakistan also mix fuels like super and Hi octane with different ratios. They may have their reasons but the concept and quality of fuel is very different in countries where i4 and V6/8 are almost same in number.


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    Quote Originally Posted by ZainMahdi View Post
    Those drivers are simply burning their wallets, and getting carbpn deposits in their combustion chamber. When a car starts to knock, its supposed to be diagnosed and the problem corrected; stop gap measures like this simply create more problems in the long run.
    My point is that of higher RON fuel is better, not pockets or mindset.

    You mentioned Carbon deposits, use any fuel, any RON value, carbon will eventually deposit, thats a major problem with combustion engines. However, a higher RON value fuel almost always has a higher concentration of cleaning adhesives so usage of Higher RON cleans up engine and prevents future build up. Not only that but there are additives which reduce friction between piston rings and cylinder walls

    Higher Octane value means more knock resistant, and engine knocking can be prevented in first place by using Hi RON value fuel. There is no sense waiting for engine knocking to occur and then use Hi-octane.

    The higher compression ratios and thermal efficiency can make a little or no difference in local cars used in Pakistan as they may not have such efficient engines, however it can make a difference in imported cars with engines which can make use of higher RON and output power can be better than using lower octane fuel.



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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenBeret View Post
    The regular fuel for a V8 is RON 95 or above, like recommended 98. Pakistan has more i4's and 3 cyl than V6 or V8 and most people in Pakistan also mix fuels like super and Hi octane with different ratios. They may have their reasons but the concept and quality of fuel is very different in countries where i4 and V6/8 are almost same in number.


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    The number of cylinders isn't a factor for octane requirement; pull out the specs for a Margalla G13a; see the octane requirement with the ignition at 8? BTDC.

    Also, you seem to think v6/v8 are luxury cars; look up the small block chevy, its as blue collar as you can get.
    _ 22 km/l from '03 VTi automatic, with plenty of room for improvement
    _ How to hypermile: http://www.cleanmpg.com/community/index.php?threads/1510/

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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenBeret View Post
    My point is that of higher RON fuel is better, not pockets or mindset.

    You mentioned Carbon deposits, use any fuel, any RON value, carbon will eventually deposit, thats a major problem with combustion engines. However, a higher RON value fuel almost always has a higher concentration of cleaning adhesives so usage of Higher RON cleans up engine and prevents future build up. Not only that but there are additives which reduce friction between piston rings and cylinder walls

    Higher Octane value means more knock resistant, and engine knocking can be prevented in first place by using Hi RON value fuel. There is no sense waiting for engine knocking to occur and then use Hi-octane.

    The higher compression ratios and thermal efficiency can make a little or no difference in local cars used in Pakistan as they may not have such efficient engines, however it can make a difference in imported cars with engines which can make use of higher RON and output power can be better than using lower octane fuel.



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    Which petrol company markets high octane as a better cleansing? And what are cleaning 'adhesives'? I wouldn't let an 'adhesive' anywhere near the combustion chambers.

    All the high octane in the world won't prevent your car from knocking if the cam sensor or crank sensor are malfunctioning. If it doesn't knock on regular, just keep using regular. If it does knock, get to the root of the problem and get it fixed.

    As for reducing friction between the piston and cylinder wall, thats the job of the engine oil, not the petrol. In fact excess petrol in the combustion chamber actually washes down the cylinder wall, stripping it of lubricant.

    Most of your claims about high octane here are quite outlandish. The only plausible point is using it for slightly better performance. If your car can advance the ignition timing in response to high octane, go ahead and use it. Keep it mind that the power boost is only marginal, and it is only apparent in the top end of the rev range. You won't even notice the effect driving around normally; anything you feel will mostly be placebo.
    _ 22 km/l from '03 VTi automatic, with plenty of room for improvement
    _ How to hypermile: http://www.cleanmpg.com/community/index.php?threads/1510/

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZainMahdi View Post
    Which petrol company markets high octane as a better cleansing?
    Shell, V-power, RON-98 & BP, Ultimate ULP, RON-98
    And what are cleaning 'adhesives'?I wouldn't let an 'adhesive' anywhere near the combustion chambers.
    Its additive, adhesive is a typo.


    All the high octane in the world won't prevent your car from knocking if the cam sensor or crank sensor are malfunctioning. If it doesn't knock on regular, just keep using regular. If it does knock, get to the root of the problem and get it fixed.
    The sensor issue that you have brought up is just for sake of arguement, in a machine anytime electronics can give in.My arguement would be that the probability of sensor malfunction is as same as any other problem starting Knocking however Knocking can be avoided by using higher RON value fuel.


    As for reducing friction between the piston and cylinder wall, thats the job of the engine oil, not the petrol. In fact excess petrol in the combustion chamber actually washes down the cylinder wall, stripping it of lubricant.
    SHELL differs with you on this point regarding its V-Power and so would I.

    Most of your claims about high octane here are quite outlandish.
    I have been quoting, National Roads and Motor Association Senior Policy advisor Jack Haley and his comments about SHELL V-Power 98 RON. I would rather take his words authentic than yours.


    The only plausible point is using it for slightly better performance. If your car can advance the ignition timing in response to high octane, go ahead and use it. Keep it mind that the power boost is only marginal, and it is only apparent in the top end of the rev range. You won't even notice the effect driving around normally; anything you feel will mostly be placebo.
    There are many experiments done keeping upto 5 cars from different brands and results are seen. The videos are on YouTube. They have taken more factors into account than what we have discussed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZainMahdi View Post
    The number of cylinders isn't a factor for octane requirement; pull out the specs for a Margalla G13a; see the octane requirement with the ignition at 8? BTDC.

    Also, you seem to think v6/v8 are luxury cars; look up the small block chevy, its as blue collar as you can get.
    I think the arguing tempo has blinded you from a very simple point.
    No i dont think V-6 pr V-8 as luxury cars. I own a V-6 and its great in its own class. some V-8's are true performance cars though.

    Some car engines which maybe V-6 or V-8 can give better performance on Hi-octane due to higher ratios whereas it may not have much effect on I4's or 3-cyl in terms of performance or efficiency. Most european cars are designed to run on RON-95 or higher because 95 is standard fuel in some places in Europe. In such cars if 91 RON or E-10 usage can cause damage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenBeret View Post
    Shell, V-power, RON-98 & BP, Ultimate ULP, RON-98

    Its additive, adhesive is a typo.



    The sensor issue that you have brought up is just for sake of arguement, in a machine anytime electronics can give in.My arguement would be that the probability of sensor malfunction is as same as any other problem starting Knocking however Knocking can be avoided by using higher RON value fuel.



    SHELL differs with you on this point regarding its V-Power and so would I.


    I have been quoting, National Roads and Motor Association Senior Policy advisor Jack Haley and his comments about SHELL V-Power 98 RON. I would rather take his words authentic than yours.



    There are many experiments done keeping upto 5 cars from different brands and results are seen. The videos are on YouTube. They have taken more factors into account than what we have discussed.
    Your argument has no basis in fact; a car that was designed for use with regular fuel won't start knocking on regular fuel (provided everything is in order); using high octane as preventive maintenance is a pointless exercise.

    And the words of a CEO, or a company's marketing team, are useless in regards to technical matters. They care about selling you more expensive products, not about the cleanliness of your engine's combustion chambers. This applies to most companies; take Liquimoly for example; if you believed everything their marketing team says, you would think that their oils and additives have descended from heaven itself, like many people on this forum do.

    If Shell/ other companies are deliberately nerfing the cleaning additives in their regular products, compared to high octane, that's grounds for a lawsuit.
    _ 22 km/l from '03 VTi automatic, with plenty of room for improvement
    _ How to hypermile: http://www.cleanmpg.com/community/index.php?threads/1510/

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZainMahdi View Post
    Your argument has no basis in fact; a car that was designed for use with regular fuel won't start knocking on regular fuel (provided everything is in order); using high octane as preventive maintenance is a pointless exercise.

    And the words of a CEO, or a company's marketing team, are useless in regards to technical matters. They care about selling you more expensive products, not about the cleanliness of your engine's combustion chambers. This applies to most companies; take Liquimoly for example; if you believed everything their marketing team says, you would think that their oils and additives have descended from heaven itself, like many people on this forum do.

    If Shell/ other companies are deliberately nerfing the cleaning additives in their regular products, compared to high octane, that's grounds for a lawsuit.
    Actually, I don't want to interfere in your convo with the other guy, but I want to ask a little question that sometimes I hear a bit of knocking in my engine. I have consulted the same with the previous owner, Honda 3S main senior mechanic and a local mechanic as well. Each one is of opinion that add some hi octane and it will be ok, i did the same and it went well. But the problem didn't end as again when I refueled normal supreme petrol, the knocking came back again. What should I do? service fuel filter or what??

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    Honda City iVTEC hypermiling -1680568
    Computer reading can be easily manipulated. I was driving on Motorway, I was driving at 50-60 km/h with car in 5th gear. Car was at low rpms. I reset the trip meter and here is the result. So don't believe the computer reading.
    Almost everyone in Pakistan is doing corruption to the extent they can. Our leaders are doing at the level they can do. So why should we complain?

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    Quote Originally Posted by adnanniazi_2000 View Post
    Actually, I don't want to interfere in your convo with the other guy, but I want to ask a little question that sometimes I hear a bit of knocking in my engine. I have consulted the same with the previous owner, Honda 3S main senior mechanic and a local mechanic as well. Each one is of opinion that add some hi octane and it will be ok, i did the same and it went well. But the problem didn't end as again when I refueled normal supreme petrol, the knocking came back again. What should I do? service fuel filter or what??
    Get the fuel pressure checked. The fuel filter needs to be changed every 40k km or so; get it changed if it's time.
    _ 22 km/l from '03 VTi automatic, with plenty of room for improvement
    _ How to hypermile: http://www.cleanmpg.com/community/index.php?threads/1510/

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    Quote Originally Posted by zia1288 View Post
    Honda City iVTEC hypermiling -1680568
    Computer reading can be easily manipulated. I was driving on Motorway, I was driving at 50-60 km/h with car in 5th gear. Car was at low rpms. I reset the trip meter and here is the result. So don't believe the computer reading.
    The fuel consumption display is fairly accurate for practical, real life distances. It's not off by much - if you want to ignore it completely, you might also want to ignore the odometer and speedometer - they are also inaccurate to a similar degree.
    _ 22 km/l from '03 VTi automatic, with plenty of room for improvement
    _ How to hypermile: http://www.cleanmpg.com/community/index.php?threads/1510/

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