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Thread: City iDSI 2005 (Manual) - heating issue! Guidance required.

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    Default City iDSI 2005 (Manual) - heating issue! Guidance required.

    A friend handed me his car (Honda city, 2005, genuine 125k km driven) yesterday to be kept for sometime until he is back from some business abroad.

    I picked the car from G-13 Islamabad and drove 2 km and made a stop at some place. Then drove for another 3 km after 15 min and made a stop in G-11 Markaz. Then using Kashmir Highway, Zero point, Expressway made for home, near Bahria Town.

    Due to heat of the day (around 2:30 pm), obviously the AC was working and MaShaAllah worked exceptionally well. I had to idle at the airport chowk signal for like 5 minute. During this time the car RPM would drop down after like every 2 min and with shudder then rise back to normal (750-800). Except that there was no issue and everything looked OK.

    As the signal turned green and I drop off straight into tight traffic (due to construction of Gulberg interchange), I would have hardly crawled like 100 meters when the car engine suddenly shut down. I immediately turned the AC off and tried to get the engine started but it felt as if the battery was low. I put the hazard lights and kept the car rolling (very slow) thinking that the slope would speed it up and I may need that to dhaka start it. Luckily I was able to do it after 3, 4 tries. I turned on the AC and thank God. I drove another 200-300 m and saw that the RED warning light (for coolant temperature) was flashing. I turned the AC off but to stop at that congested section of road was almost out of question. I kept rolling. The RED warning light kept blinking for like 10-15 seconds and then stopped. I thought may be it was the AC that would be overheating the car. Left it shut down.
    But to my horror, the red light showed up again after few minutes. I thought may be it is the go-slow that is heating and the moment I get some speed, it may cool down a bit due to convection in the radiator. Rest of the way to home (some 5-6 km), I did not run the AC, the red-light would flash after few minutes for few seconds and then go away.
    Finally I reached home. There was no other issue driving the car. I just prayed no serious issue would result.

    Now I was told that the car was recently serviced in detail. The engine cooling system flushed many a time, and then Honda Blue Coolant was used in 50-50 concentration. The car generally was driven in 10 km trips -- that in Islamabad means a drive for 10-20 minute since the place of job and kids school weren't very far away from home.
    The car produces a "goonj" sound at higher RPMs and some people said it is the sound of the "crank". This sound had been there for the last 2 years or more. The car was purchased some 3 years ago by my friend.
    The engine, allegedly has never been opened. The car has no history of reducing oil as well as coolant. No heating issue as well.
    And a good quality T-stat valve was also installed when coolant was put in.

    But when I reached home, opened the hood, it felt quite hot. I checked the expansion bottle, it was full to the brink. After an hour or so, opened the radiator cap to see the vents inside the radiator and no coolant/liquid. The expansion bottle at that time had coolant less than half the bottle.
    Also found the battery dry so topped it up with some hot water.
    Also topped up the radiator with water. Turned on the car, found no leaks with a little inspection above and under the engine bay. Turned ON the AC. Both the fans started rotating. The AC blew chilled air. Turned off the AC, both the fans stopped.
    Left the car idling, even accelerated the engine twice or thrice but without the AC, the fan did not run, which, I believe should have, because the car was not cool when we added water and in 4-5 min idling, with AC ON then OFF, the water must have reached the operating temperature.
    The FAN did not run without the AC throughout our test, nor did the RED light blink.
    The person with me suspects the temperature sensor -- but I do not agree with his diagnostic since the red light blinking meant the temperature sensor did its job. For some odd reason the radiator fan, however, does not rotate. Though both starts rotating immediately as one turns on the AC. They also stop as soon as one turns off the AC.

    My understanding is the coolant has to flow in the engine compartment and wherever it has to, and then when sufficiently hot, with the opening of T-stat valve, it passes through the radiator, cools down and keep the merry-go-round flowing!
    When the flow through the radiator does not cool it down to a required temperature, the fan aids this cooling.

    The fan does not do its intended job. Where can the problem be? Where to look at? I intend to work the system at home if it remains in easily workable domain. I have the assistance of my driver who is also a mechanic.

    In the evening, after like 3 hours, I needed to make a short trip to bakery, 1km away. Before starting the car, I opened the radiator cap. Again there was no liquid to be seen in the radiator, whereas previous (3 hours ago) we filled it up, ran the car to see that the fan did not work.

    Next day, after reading some Honda City 2004, 2005 heating issues threads, I decided to check for head-gasket test (as proposed). I opened the radiator cap, filled it up to the top. Started the car and checked the water. I saw no bubbles but the water overflowed a little. No bubbles or shot-up of water could be seen.
    What does this suggest? Anything related to head-gasket?

    Based on a thread on someone's 2004 model heating issue, he seemed to have done everything with the engine and then finally (something which no one had suggested) was done and it fixed it -- water pump was replaced!

    So honestly, I feel, I must check the condition of the water pump before checking for anything else. The engine dip stick shows no milking or anything unusual. The car does not give out any smoke.

    There is but one thing, which in a run today, for 3 km, I did not observe, and that is, no fan rotating without AC.

    Is there any possibility that the T-stat is stuck and not opening? Asking though never heard of it!

    I guess I should check T-stat valve first, then water pump and if they are fine, then worry for anything else.

    PS: Sorry was too descriptive a description. I hope someone suggests something sane and logical to me.


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    Quote Originally Posted by hash4u View Post
    Or may i suggest let the outside temperature sore back to 40c n tk it out for a drive in local with AC
    Maybe nothing needs to b done

    U will open half the car based on assumptions otherwise
    You have already scared me! Won't be able to do that!
    Or perhaps I should with a tank of water take it for a ride!
    Ho sakta hai uss din gari ka bhi roza ho, aur lag raha ho!

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    Quote Originally Posted by faheemakbar18 View Post
    yes this is what i am thinking too. Put tstat valve in boiling water and check its opening.
    T-stat opens with steam pressure. Cannot be checked by putting in boiling water.

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    An excellent answer to what may cause engine heating:
    Car over heating and steam was coming out ...

    Based on it and the symptoms I observe, I fear if it is not T-stat valve then it must be head-gasket.
    The first time this happened, I found the expansion bottle full and when after some time we opened the radiator cap, the radiator clear of water/coolant.
    Time to see the expert.

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    Could any Honda City expert advise us about any tool to measure the engine temperature for idsi city... Any gadget, temperature gauge, obd scanner or car HUD? Sorry it seems off-topic question but I really want to know the compatible and easy installation gadget to show idsi engine temperature.

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    Obd II scanner

    Pakistan First

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    Quote Originally Posted by abart View Post
    Could any Honda City expert advise us about any tool to measure the engine temperature for idsi city... Any gadget, temperature gauge, obd scanner or car HUD? Sorry it seems off-topic question but I really want to know the compatible and easy installation gadget to show idsi engine temperature.
    obd 2 scanner
    Aftermarket temperature gauge (would look a bit odd though)

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    Quote Originally Posted by 7606 View Post
    Obd II scanner

    Pakistan First

    Which one...from where I can buy it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fahad.Ayub View Post
    obd 2 scanner
    Aftermarket temperature gauge (would look a bit odd though)

    For obd2 scanner I will always require to connect my cell phone with it, right?

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    City iDSI 2005 (Manual) - heating issue! Guidance required. - c18c7fd8352ce5859adc8309b6a92c81

    Pakistan First

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    City iDSI 2005 (Manual) - heating issue! Guidance required. - 3cf20129f8f6b76bc4c509a1e525f034

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    City iDSI 2005 (Manual) - heating issue! Guidance required. - 2390ad53943f80bdf9559afa171456c3

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    OBD II scanner plugs into obd port of honda city located below the steering column on the left side. It connects via bluetooth or wireless to your mobile. The software has to be downloaded first. Shows live data when car is on. Can be bought from many online sites in Pakistan.

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    City iDSI 2005 (Manual) - heating issue! Guidance required. - 620c628bcc3db0d6349380e17cf4b654

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    City iDSI 2005 (Manual) - heating issue! Guidance required. - d1978723f75f791f85c64d1fec39cfbb

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    Personally using this one. Bought from online store and free cd provided. Works with city.

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    Thanks a bunch for all this information, my question is you don't always connect your phone with obd scanner there should be dedicated device for it may be Car Headup Display - HUD

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    I have windows mobile ... Do all these obd scanner work with windows mobile phone as well

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    Quote Originally Posted by x2 View Post
    T-stat opens with steam pressure. Cannot be checked by putting in boiling water.
    well it can be and is previously done by agoodfriend while his cultus restoration
    It doesn't matter baby we can take it real slow

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    Update:
    We removed the T-stat valve but did not made the fan direct. Given the heat, the fan would have to blow in any case, since the AC would be turned on.
    Drove the vehicle for like 5-6 km and saw the red light again.
    So finally, I can say, that we have explored every other option except the head gasket so now I am sure head gasket need to be changed.
    My driver is a seasoned mechanic. He had years of experience at that. For example he has been working at Auto Club I-10 for 2-3 years too. He worked on the engine of our old khyber and is neat in his work. Working at home has the advantage that one can work at one's leisure, can be focused, can ensure that the best parts be used, no juggars are used, etc.
    I am thinking of doing this project at home.
    Or a neighbor's basement can be used who have turned it into a full private car garage/workshop. So one can leave engine open without issue too, if needed.
    How would the expert with experience of this City model comment?
    Now when the engine is to be opened for over-heating treatment, what MUST be done, what to be checked, and what not touched.
    Since the car drives fine despite this overheating, I believe, there wont be any engine head warping issue?

    Also please recommend authentic information on honda engine build up, any DIY guide would be helpful.

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    so the thermostat, t valve, auto fan, water pump, radiator cap
    everything is fine (to conclude) ?

    are you guys dead sure the radiator is not choked up with some build up ?
    Life is short and very unpredictable just like a Quarter mile .....

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