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Thread: Honda City Fan Club

  1. #1
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    Default Honda City Fan Club

    (Maintainence schedule added at the end)

    Hi guys..!!! I thought we should have a Fan club for honda city.Theres already a fourm for City but thats dedicated to city steermatic only.in this club,we shall hav steermatic,idsi,cvt nd all models of city and all their variants. Well the history of this car is somewhat like this...


    First generation (1997-2000) On january 22nd 1997,the first Honda City was launched as a sedan.The city was always made for families and not for racing or sports.Thats why they were always equiped with the latest or sometimes firsts in the market.The interior was always very comforting and the seating position is also very comfortable.It had the options of power windows,and side view mirrors for the top model though they were not there in the base model.Power steeing,front seatbelts,digital clock,AC was available in the basic model too.One the outside,it was very elegantly designed.Beautiful,handsome and decent.Under the hood,it had a 1300cc 16valve SOHC engine ,and was the first car to have 16-valve in 1300cc category.


    Second generation (2000-2003) On January 20th 2000, Honda replaced the original City of 1997 with an update.This model of city had the basic shape of its predecessor.but with new crystal head lamps at the front,power side view mirrors and a chrome lining around the rear numberplate garnish.It was the first car in pakistan to have rear crystal headlights.It had two varients. Exi and Exi-s.The Exi had manual windows and side view mirrors,body colored licence plate garnish(not chromed), semi-fabric seat covers, 165/13 tyres,black door mirrors and no high mount stop lamp.But the Exi-s had all these things in it.The outside looked more gracefull with crystal lights and some new lines on the exterior.The engine in both of them were same.But this one had Programed fuel injection(PGM-Fi).There was optional 4-speed automatic transmission available. The engine engine's maximum horse power=90/6400 and maximum torque =11.5/4700 This model was produced until 2003


    Honda City Fan Club -536755

    Honda City Fan Club -536756




    Third generation (2003-2005) On 23rd August 2003, the third-generation Honda City was launched which had a totally new shape.It was a very stylish and aerodynamic shape introduced in pakistan for the first time.It also was the first car to introduce i-dsi (intelligence-dual and sequential ignation) and CVT (continuously variable transmission) in Pakistan.It had an engine which is higly fuel economic and was build specially for better fuel economy.This car was equipped with power windows(pinch free) , power side view mirrors, tilt adjustable steering column and yet another first,the EPS or electriconic power steering.it made the steering very very soft to turn and also it had no oil used in it so it had no maintanence required.Other featrure of this car is that its the first Euro 3 comliant car in pakistan,that means that its very low on harmful emmisions.The EURO 3 emission standard are applicable in Europe from the year 2000, they are considered to be amongst the most strict standards worldwide. The standard limits emissions to 2.1 g/kWh CO, 0.66 g/kWh HC, 5.0 g/kWh NOx, 0.1 g/kWh particles. Another striking feature is, the boot space(400ltrs).it was bigger then any local car availabe at that time.This car was basically meant for families.it had two glove compartments,a big boot,empty space under the rear seats, four glass holders,and also, a smal space provided in the two front doors.And guess what? All of these options were available in the basic version.This city was divided on just the basis of the drive-train.One was manual,and other was automatic. On the outside,this car was designed very sophisticatedly,it looked smaller than other cars in size from outside but is alot more spacious inside.the body design was an immediate hit among fans and poeple who knew somthing about this type of things.Even the side view mirrors are designed to cut through air.


    Honda City Fan Club -536757




    Fourth generation (2005-present) In september 2005,the fourth generation City was released.It was basically a face-lifted version on the previous model.it is known as the City ZX in Thailand, India, the New City in Malaysia and City in Pakistan.The most significant changes are a new exterior (new front grille, new headlamps, new fog lights, newtaillights and bumpers). The front end has been extended forward by 65 mm (2.6 in) while the rear has been extended by 15 mm (0.6 in). The VTEC trim have 15 inch alloy wheels as standard equipment. Interior changes are minor but it does include an armrest for the driver.The rest remains almost same as in the previous model. The engine remains the same but the intake manifold has been modified, resulting a 10% temperature drop in the intake air temperature (IAT), the suspension has been upgraded as well. Honda City in Pakistan are using CVT gearbox for both i-DSI and VTEC variants. The CVT-VTEC 1.5L gearbox is equipped with a Simulated 7-Speed Automated Manual Transmission (AMT) using paddle shift buttons. This is very rare for a subcompact of its class.This VTEC variant was called City-steermatic.

    Honda City Fan Club -214737



    Steermatic:- The steermatic is basicaly a name of a technology used in the city VTEC 1.5L model.this model had a different engine than the idsi.it had a 1.5L engine with an auto transmission.this was not any other auto transmission.its is steermatic,means that you can change gears just by push of a button on the steering wheel.this is basically used in F1 racing.It has 2 options,either you drive on fully automated CVT option,or you select a virtual manual transmission.For this,you would change the gears when you want with a push of a button.This model also have an opitiron meter and also stock imported 15" alloy rims with bridgestone Potenza tyres. This technology is very sophisticated and advanced,which,sadly was'nt accepted by the buyers in Pakistan because they simply could not understand it and hence,this particular model of city was discontined.


    I-dsi:- I-dsi stands for Intelligence-dual and sequential ignation.In this type of engine,two spark plugs are employed for each cylinder.That makes 8 spark plugs instead of 4 plugs used by most cars.Adding of an additional plug assures complete burning and utilizing the last drop of fuel thrown into the cylinders which would provide you the best performace and better fuel consumption.Not all the times the 8 plugs are working,but when u push your car through high revs or speeds,all of them work simeltaneously and thats when ypu can feel the difference.But theres one drawback in it,this engine is equiped with 8 valves not 16.Hence it decreased the performance and city seems to be out of breath after 5000RPMs,but as this is basically a family car,performance is not the priority.The best thing about this was the fuel economy,about which,you can read the paragraph below.

    Fifth generation (2009 onwards) On 31th january 2009,the fifth generation of the honda City was launched in Pakistan.Which was an immediate hit among the fans.The previous Honda City was criticised due to its shape,but this time the best thing was the shape,which is even more aerodynamic then the previous one and also resembles the big Honda brothers,Civic and Accord.The best thing about the exterior of this City is the front view of the car.The wide,sleek and elegently designed radiator grill gives a refreashing look to the car.The dimesions of the car are almost similar to those of the older model.The sharp lines on the hood gives the city some attitude on the road.The boot space is increased about 25%,from 400ltrs to 506ltrs.But the good news doesnt end there,under the hood,There is a fairly powerful 1.3L SOHC VTEC engine.which produces a healthy 100bhp,enough for a 1.3L car.But dont think that you would have to lose something on the fuel economy side to get this sort of power.The fuel economy is actually improved.Some indian car expert magzines gave the figures of 22km/ltr for the auto transmission,which is the best in its class.The emission standards are improved as well.Previous city was Euro 3 compliant,but the new city is Euro 4 compliant.which means that your car is enviornment friendly.The only thing which you need to be concered about is the interior,which feels abit cramped campared to the previous City,but there is a reason to it.In the pervious city.the hood and the trunk had only a small portion of the exterior length covered,and the cabin was much bigger,which gave nice interior space,but from outside,the car looked ugly to some eyes.To correct this ugliness,the car was redesigned with increased hood and trunk length from outside,this made it look much better but the drawback was the lesser interior space.The second thing was the missing silver portions on the interior bits and panels of the Pakistani City.The interior would have felt lively only if some spots of it would have been in silver color.But you have alot other advantages,like 15" rims,ABS as standard,vtec engine,details of fuel milage on a special screen in the speedometer,huge boot and many other small things. In a nutshel,the new Honda City is much more refined comparitively to the previous one.The basic things which matter alot have been improved like the engine and the exterior design.The ride of the car is also improved,thanks to the small changes in the suspension.All in all,its still a great package if you see it the value-for-money way in Pakistani market atleast.


    Honda City Fan Club - 20012009 28429 17y pakwheels28com291 n1a pakwheels28com29 W8V PakWheels28com29











    Fuel Consumption:- The 2005 face-lifted Honda City i-DSI achieved an impressive 26.2km per liter of fuel consumption during a challenge in June 2007. The challenge requires the vehicle to be occupied by 4 persons (including the driver), air conditioning being switched on and a load of luggage. The whole route stretched more than 660km that consists of not only highway driving but also hill climbing. ==================================== Source:-My self mostly,wikipedia and Honda atlas.


    In Short:- In short,according to me,all this proves that Honda City has been a great car for a family to have at all times for more than a decade now.It has proven its self to be a complete car one would need at a price tag it is available for.An im one of the thousands of satisfied owners of it for the past one year. Now all we need are your comments and thoughts upon this small wonder.And also do make sure you post some pix of your own city if you have,of any model.Please feel free to express your feelings about this car.

    Maintainence schedule:-

    There have been a lot of queries regarding the maintainence shedule of Honda City. To help find members and guests find this information easily and quickly, i am writing the complete maintainence shedule which i have been following for the past 5 years for my car (180,000kms).Cost of completing the job may/may not be stated. Some of it may not be the same as that in maintainence book provided by Honda people. In that case, i ll state the reason of the difference.Here goes.

    Oils:-
    Havoline formula 10W30 (3.7ltr) and oil filter change @ 3000kms. Cost 1900rs

    Transmission oil (Manual transmission) 2 ltr @ 40,000kms.
    Honda original oil 1980rs (2ltr)
    Good quality Zic/ micking oil 800rs (2ltr)

    Transmission oil ( Automatic transmission) 2lre @ 35,000kms
    Honda CVT oil ONLY (3.2-3.4L.) 1980rs

    Brake oil
    Keep it topped up and change only if padel feels very soft n goes wayy down.
    Honda original oil

    Clutch operation oil
    Keep it topped up and change only if you it shows signs of trouble

    Parts change:-

    Brake pads change:-
    recommended @ 30,000kms
    Can use any good quality pads. (labour 400rs for 4 wheels plus pads, from 500rs to 2500rs)

    Fuel filter change @ 40,000kms (IF driven on petrol)

    Air filter change @ 10,000kms Original Honda filter is best.Good quality guard filter is good too.
    980rs for OEM, 350rs for Guard filter.

    Spark plugs @ 20,000kms Original Honda plugs (8 plugs for idsi. 4 for steermatic, new city ivtec and before-2003 model City)

    Timing belt. Not required. From 2003 onwards, all honda Citys have timing chains instead of belts.They usually last a life time.

    Tune-ups :-

    Throttle body service @ 20,000kms Cost around 500rs
    Tappets adjustment / valve clearence @ 20,000kms Cost around 500rs

    Brake adjustment front not required after pads change. rear @ 30,000kms (or when front pads changed)

    Expected Life of Some parts:-

    Brake pads 35,000kms if driven aggressively ( cost already mentioned)
    Clutch plate 110,000kms if driven aggressively ( around 2000rs labour and 6000rs for clutch+pressure plate)
    Clutch bearing 150,000kms (So change with clutch plate) (800rs)
    Tuneups can be delayed to 30,000kms IF the car is run in clean enviornment like in Islamabad etc (less dust)
    Engine oil change can be delays to 5,000kms but not good in long run.

    Service Manual Honda City ids-i 2003-2008:-
    http://www.putlocker.com/file/CED54F8B8FB00360

    Tip for keeping automatic transmission (Vario and steermatic) healthy on CNG:-
    Change engine oil at 3,000kms MAX.
    Tranny oil at 30,000kms
    Tune up (throttle and valve clearence) at 20,000kms
    Do NOT ignore idleing problems. Rough idleing means jerks to transmission and thats what kills it on CNG.
    Keep air filter clean and change at 10,000kms max.

    Instrument cluster cleaning DIY
    https://www.pakwheels.com/forums/d-i...ening-cleaning
    Console box opening and spray painting DIY
    https://www.pakwheels.com/forums/d-i...-respray-diy-1
    A/c service, the easy way
    https://www.pakwheels.com/forums/air...ck-c-service-1
    Honda City GTG at kallar kahar
    https://www.pakwheels.com/forums/get...g-kallar-kahar
    2nd Honda City GTG at kallar kahar
    https://www.pakwheels.com/forums/get...ar-23-dec-12-a

    Thats all for now.
    When the power of love exceeds the love for power, the world will finally know peace=Every man is guilty of all the good he didn't do

  2. #3521
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    Quote Originally Posted by smashhud View Post
    ^^ Did you get an AT or a Manual Transmission? Please share the price as well; if possible
    2010 model, manual. 20k driven, total genuine not even bumpers painted, paid 13.60 lacks

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    Default

    Honda City Fan Club -364303 Honda City Fan Club -364305

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    Quote Originally Posted by a1ms View Post
    2010 model, manual. 20k driven, total genuine not even bumpers painted, paid 13.60 lacks
    Thanks for the response. Any fringe benefits like Alloys?
    A man is known by the ride he keeps!!!

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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by ahmadbila View Post
    wow... this is great! i'd love to have one... for 11lakh, its a very nice deal. you're getting 2 airbags (may be more) , built in cd player, 1500cc engine, maye be even ABS and much more plus standard honda city features AND, the best part, excellent build quality... just needs a side moulding so that it starts to look more normal

    Yeah Im also Amazed like You! Its Quite a Great Value to buy for 11 Lacs.A japenese made High Quality car & specialy dont have the Probelm of the Parts like the Other Imported Cars have! All you have to do Is to find a Trust Worthy Dealer having good Repo !! Also the local Honda Co. has dropped the Quality of Current City to Much Extent the Design of this model & Current one Are Totally Different. The Black Interior so Elegant & Stylish!!
    Pakistan needs MaSsive Over-HAULING!! So either stay or Just Leave it!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by smashhud View Post
    Thanks for the response. Any fringe benefits like Alloys?
    yes 15s alloy rims with brand new tyres & some add ons like airpress/sun shades. there are only 2 3 minor scrathes on on rear fender

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    Quote Originally Posted by a1ms View Post
    thanks . its suspension is bit hard as compared to previous idsi. acceleration is awesome as compared to turtle idsi,
    it is only missing a center console
    yeah suspension is harder then idsi and acceleration is much better then idsi. this car feels soooo stable... i just love the drive... yeah some of the 2010 models lack center console and few more goodies but u can get them for a few thousand rupees...
    When the power of love exceeds the love for power, the world will finally know peace=Every man is guilty of all the good he didn't do

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    Quote Originally Posted by a1ms View Post
    2010 model, manual. 20k driven, total genuine not even bumpers painted, paid 13.60 lacks
    wow... thats a very nice deal... 20k kms is nothing, its like new, plus alloys and tires. all for just 1360k... brand new car alone costs 1392k!!
    When the power of love exceeds the love for power, the world will finally know peace=Every man is guilty of all the good he didn't do

  9. #3528
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    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by ahmadbila View Post
    @Bigmama
    haha.... yes, kick already detected and i was planning to send a reverse kick (console paint DIY) but found out that u already did Inshallah i ll do the carpet washing thing asap and u do it too Garmi mai tou ye kam karna almost impossible hy!

    oh, so you're in wahh medical college.some of my friends are in the same institute but they wud be senior to u.3rd n 4th year. well, best of luck buddy, medical is very tough... specially a few subjects like pathology etc ...
    as for the rings of speedometer, i ll report back in a few minutes and will let u know... just pray that i dont break them

    @a1ms
    welcome BACK to the thread
    City's drive is soooo smooth, people hardly like any other same category car after driving city for a while... COngratulations on the purchase... do post sum pictures
    yeah bro... I am gonna do it the next time i am near to the city inshAllah. Meanwhile, I am thinking of using Dynamat on its doors and trunk so as to make it sound proof. what do u say.?

    I feel its gettin' abit noisy in there.

    and thank u for ur wishes bro. I had a family medical issue so couldn't be in Lahore this year.InshAllah, from next year onwards, I'll be over there.

    Quote Originally Posted by ahmadbila View Post
    well well well.... i just went out in garage and tried to get that silver ring out of its place... i cudnt
    actually, i now remember i tried it a long time ago too. there are two or three clips on the base of it, the lower portion but the upper part is soooo badly stuck into sumthing.may be it has nuts or sumthing, i dont know. i pulled it out reeeeeallly hard but it didnt move a millimeter :|

    asking a mechanic...emmm... i think we need to ask some denter. as they re the ones who open it for accidented cars. or if sumone can ask from a Honda 3s, it would be great...
    Oh I didn't know u were gonna go straight to ur car and try that, LOL..

    and yeah. I asked my younger bro to try that as well but he said that the lower portion did come out but the upper one was stuck badly.

    BUT, the guy told me that I would be able to get the rings out if I remove the cluster over head, the round roof type thing above the speedo. He said there is a clear line in the roof and the lower half of it comes off. After that, the rings are easy.

    But, I again, am of the view of asking someone who regularly knows the stuff.

    then do it to the cluster cz its a delicate part and any immature experiment could result in
    Quote Originally Posted by ahmadbila View Post
    wow... this is great! i'd love to have one... for 11lakh, its a very nice deal. you're getting 2 airbags (may be more) , built in cd player, 1500cc engine, maye be even ABS and much more plus standard honda city features AND, the best part, excellent build quality... just needs a side moulding so that it starts to look more normal
    Yaar, that fit aria seems awesome. wow. only for 11 lakh. vitz is bullsh*it yaar.
    Agar chy bu'tt' hain Jama'at ki Aasteenon main - Mujhay Hai Hukm-e-Aazaan LA ILA HA ILL ALLAH...!

  10. #3529
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    Quote Originally Posted by RollOnBigMaMa View Post
    yeah bro... I am gonna do it the next time i am near to the city inshAllah. Meanwhile, I am thinking of using Dynamat on its doors and trunk so as to make it sound proof. what do u say.?

    I feel its gettin' abit noisy in there.

    and thank u for ur wishes bro. I had a family medical issue so couldn't be in Lahore this year.InshAllah, from next year onwards, I'll be over there.



    Oh I didn't know u were gonna go straight to ur car and try that, LOL..

    and yeah. I asked my younger bro to try that as well but he said that the lower portion did come out but the upper one was stuck badly.

    BUT, the guy told me that I would be able to get the rings out if I remove the cluster over head, the round roof type thing above the speedo. He said there is a clear line in the roof and the lower half of it comes off. After that, the rings are easy.

    But, I again, am of the view of asking someone who regularly knows the stuff.

    then do it to the cluster cz its a delicate part and any immature experiment could result in


    Yaar, that fit aria seems awesome. wow. only for 11 lakh. vitz is bullsh*it yaar.
    1)
    dynamite? u gonna blow up ur city? lol, j/k... so where can this stuff be bought and how effective is it at soundproofing? i might give it a try inside truck too, as i still havent put the carpet back.
    2)
    So u're telling me that the lower/inside portion of the speedometer "roof" can be seperated and then the rings can be taken out, right? i ll give it a shot again if this small procedure can give us access to the speedometer inside, it would be awesome. mine badly needs cleaning!

    3)
    The fit really seems to be awesome... i ve seen people paying near 12 lakh for vitz and probox (shitbox) , the city at this price is truely worth every penny...
    When the power of love exceeds the love for power, the world will finally know peace=Every man is guilty of all the good he didn't do

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    Quote Originally Posted by ahmadbila View Post
    yeah suspension is harder then idsi and acceleration is much better then idsi. this car feels soooo stable... i just love the drive... yeah some of the 2010 models lack center console and few more goodies but u can get them for a few thousand rupees...
    yeah true

    Quote Originally Posted by ahmadbila View Post
    wow... thats a very nice deal... 20k kms is nothing, its like new, plus alloys and tires. all for just 1360k... brand new car alone costs 1392k!!
    thanks

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    Hi guys today i changed foundation and wheel bearings of my city which took almost 4 hour. Now some details

    There were total 4 foundations changed all of them

    1.FOUNDATION THAILAND Price 1700.
    2.Foundation thailand price 1500
    3. Foundation thailand price 1500
    4. Foundation thailand price 1500

    Wheel barings original japan made price 3700 for complete set for front wheels.

    Brake pad malaysian price 800

    Body to engine water pipe set price 1200 .

    Radiator complete service for Rs.400

    Rear garnish window cover 350
    Labour Rs 2000.

    Work for tomorrow will replace back shockers inshallah.
    Sent from my HTC HD2 using Tapatalk
    They Hate Us Because They Aint Us !

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    Quote Originally Posted by a1ms View Post
    yes 15s alloy rims with brand new tyres & some add ons like airpress/sun shades. there are only 2 3 minor scrathes on on rear fender
    Thats nice... I am getting jealous..Let me know when you want to sale it
    A man is known by the ride he keeps!!!

  14. #3533
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    I want to change side view mirror of my City 2011, can any one tell me how many wires does it have. 3, 5 or 7?

    also can a 5 wire LED mirror fits in well??
    Life Is a Waste Of Time, Time Is a Waste Of Life, So Get Wasted All The Time, And Have The Time Of Your Life..!!

  15. #3534
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    Quote Originally Posted by aqgmbest View Post
    Hi guys today i changed foundation and wheel bearings of my city which took almost 4 hour. Now some details

    There were total 4 foundations changed all of them

    1.FOUNDATION THAILAND Price 1700.
    2.Foundation thailand price 1500
    3. Foundation thailand price 1500
    4. Foundation thailand price 1500

    Wheel barings original japan made price 3700 for complete set for front wheels.

    Brake pad malaysian price 800

    Body to engine water pipe set price 1200 .

    Radiator complete service for Rs.400

    Rear garnish window cover 350
    Labour Rs 2000.

    Work for tomorrow will replace back shockers inshallah.
    Sent from my HTC HD2 using Tapatalk
    What is rear window garnish and for changing all 4 foundations did they remove the engine or not

  16. #3535
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    Bro some mechenics install foundations by removing engine out and some install without removing my mechinic opted the second method that y it took more than 4 hours
    I will not be able to explain what rear window garnish cover is will post pic for u

    Sent from my HTC HD2 using Tapatalk
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  17. #3536
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    Default Need advise regarding 2001 EXI

    Dear All,

    i need to expert advise regarding City 2001 EXI model, i have plan to purchase this model. please advise the maintenance cost, and its good decision to buy this model or not as the budget didnt allow me to go above.

    Thanks !

  18. #3537
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    Quote Originally Posted by comp678 View Post
    Dear All,

    i need to expert advise regarding City 2001 EXI model, i have plan to purchase this model. please advise the maintenance cost, and its good decision to buy this model or not as the budget didnt allow me to go above.

    Thanks !
    If acquired in decent condition, its a great car. Maintenance is easy and nominal, its a pretty robust car. Go ahead!

  19. #3538
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    Quote Originally Posted by comp678 View Post
    Dear All,

    i need to expert advise regarding City 2001 EXI model, i have plan to purchase this model. please advise the maintenance cost, and its good decision to buy this model or not as the budget didnt allow me to go above.

    Thanks !
    brother welcome to pw,

    i am also owner of 2000 EXi same as that of you want to purchase, first of all keeping a 12 odd years old car is completely differnet from owning a 4 year old car, there will be few things you will always be living with just being an old equipment. second what i have learnt is that if you are able to fiddle around small things in your car yourslef you will be very much happy person with your car, any car i would say, about maintenance, yes parts will be expensive when you need it, though they will be available with relative ease. once you have brought car to your satisfaction level i dont think that you will be to workshop often, but when you do single ball joint will cost you around 2000. if you plan to go for this model make sure wiring is not played with coz this thing will keep you in trouble for ever, if its a neat clean car with engine in good condition for over a year to come considering your utilization and if demands like 30-40k after purchase in immediate maintenance, and if body is not rusted i think its still a good machine to go with.

    and at the end if you go for for it, turst my words you gonna love her

  20. #3539
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    Hi
    I have honda city 2004 iDsi White Color. My 3 door seals are open.What can be done to close it.should i change the door what is its cost.Because it lowered my car price 75 thousand.

  21. #3540
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    Quote Originally Posted by rfawad19 View Post
    Hi
    I have honda city 2004 iDsi White Color. My 3 door seals are open.What can be done to close it.should i change the door what is its cost.Because it lowered my car price 75 thousand.
    How did you discover that and does the vehicle belong to you first hand or you got it second hand. Also what are you planning to do if you are planning to sale it than ask different dealers you might get a price idea that would be realistic. If the loss is greater than 50k than you can find a denter who makes seals that look like real but a expert can judge them that they are not real, also if you go for remaking the seals you would have to paint the doors from inner side. As far as making them is concerned a good denter would do the job for all doors at around 10k. But I wont recommend you that because all assets that we have are by the grace of almighty allah and also the loss caused to them is through his will as well, if he wants you to suffer the loss and you go against his will and conceal the defect and sell your assset at a higher price and rob someone, my dear you will have to suffer that loss and that time will be the judgement day. So I would say that stay away from these things

    And if you are planning to keep the vehicle, than what the heck you are not taken from point A to point B by those door seals. The most important thing is engine if its fine than all is well. After all its the engine that will keep you moving, you wont be taking the entire "GENUINE" stuff on your shoulders and boasting to all that I have "GENUINE" car that actually does not run

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