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Thread: Honda City Fan Club

  1. #1
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    Default Honda City Fan Club

    (Maintainence schedule added at the end)

    Hi guys..!!! I thought we should have a Fan club for honda city.Theres already a fourm for City but thats dedicated to city steermatic only.in this club,we shall hav steermatic,idsi,cvt nd all models of city and all their variants. Well the history of this car is somewhat like this...


    First generation (1997-2000) On january 22nd 1997,the first Honda City was launched as a sedan.The city was always made for families and not for racing or sports.Thats why they were always equiped with the latest or sometimes firsts in the market.The interior was always very comforting and the seating position is also very comfortable.It had the options of power windows,and side view mirrors for the top model though they were not there in the base model.Power steeing,front seatbelts,digital clock,AC was available in the basic model too.One the outside,it was very elegantly designed.Beautiful,handsome and decent.Under the hood,it had a 1300cc 16valve SOHC engine ,and was the first car to have 16-valve in 1300cc category.


    Second generation (2000-2003) On January 20th 2000, Honda replaced the original City of 1997 with an update.This model of city had the basic shape of its predecessor.but with new crystal head lamps at the front,power side view mirrors and a chrome lining around the rear numberplate garnish.It was the first car in pakistan to have rear crystal headlights.It had two varients. Exi and Exi-s.The Exi had manual windows and side view mirrors,body colored licence plate garnish(not chromed), semi-fabric seat covers, 165/13 tyres,black door mirrors and no high mount stop lamp.But the Exi-s had all these things in it.The outside looked more gracefull with crystal lights and some new lines on the exterior.The engine in both of them were same.But this one had Programed fuel injection(PGM-Fi).There was optional 4-speed automatic transmission available. The engine engine's maximum horse power=90/6400 and maximum torque =11.5/4700 This model was produced until 2003


    Honda City Fan Club -536755

    Honda City Fan Club -536756




    Third generation (2003-2005) On 23rd August 2003, the third-generation Honda City was launched which had a totally new shape.It was a very stylish and aerodynamic shape introduced in pakistan for the first time.It also was the first car to introduce i-dsi (intelligence-dual and sequential ignation) and CVT (continuously variable transmission) in Pakistan.It had an engine which is higly fuel economic and was build specially for better fuel economy.This car was equipped with power windows(pinch free) , power side view mirrors, tilt adjustable steering column and yet another first,the EPS or electriconic power steering.it made the steering very very soft to turn and also it had no oil used in it so it had no maintanence required.Other featrure of this car is that its the first Euro 3 comliant car in pakistan,that means that its very low on harmful emmisions.The EURO 3 emission standard are applicable in Europe from the year 2000, they are considered to be amongst the most strict standards worldwide. The standard limits emissions to 2.1 g/kWh CO, 0.66 g/kWh HC, 5.0 g/kWh NOx, 0.1 g/kWh particles. Another striking feature is, the boot space(400ltrs).it was bigger then any local car availabe at that time.This car was basically meant for families.it had two glove compartments,a big boot,empty space under the rear seats, four glass holders,and also, a smal space provided in the two front doors.And guess what? All of these options were available in the basic version.This city was divided on just the basis of the drive-train.One was manual,and other was automatic. On the outside,this car was designed very sophisticatedly,it looked smaller than other cars in size from outside but is alot more spacious inside.the body design was an immediate hit among fans and poeple who knew somthing about this type of things.Even the side view mirrors are designed to cut through air.


    Honda City Fan Club -536757




    Fourth generation (2005-present) In september 2005,the fourth generation City was released.It was basically a face-lifted version on the previous model.it is known as the City ZX in Thailand, India, the New City in Malaysia and City in Pakistan.The most significant changes are a new exterior (new front grille, new headlamps, new fog lights, newtaillights and bumpers). The front end has been extended forward by 65 mm (2.6 in) while the rear has been extended by 15 mm (0.6 in). The VTEC trim have 15 inch alloy wheels as standard equipment. Interior changes are minor but it does include an armrest for the driver.The rest remains almost same as in the previous model. The engine remains the same but the intake manifold has been modified, resulting a 10% temperature drop in the intake air temperature (IAT), the suspension has been upgraded as well. Honda City in Pakistan are using CVT gearbox for both i-DSI and VTEC variants. The CVT-VTEC 1.5L gearbox is equipped with a Simulated 7-Speed Automated Manual Transmission (AMT) using paddle shift buttons. This is very rare for a subcompact of its class.This VTEC variant was called City-steermatic.

    Honda City Fan Club -214737



    Steermatic:- The steermatic is basicaly a name of a technology used in the city VTEC 1.5L model.this model had a different engine than the idsi.it had a 1.5L engine with an auto transmission.this was not any other auto transmission.its is steermatic,means that you can change gears just by push of a button on the steering wheel.this is basically used in F1 racing.It has 2 options,either you drive on fully automated CVT option,or you select a virtual manual transmission.For this,you would change the gears when you want with a push of a button.This model also have an opitiron meter and also stock imported 15" alloy rims with bridgestone Potenza tyres. This technology is very sophisticated and advanced,which,sadly was'nt accepted by the buyers in Pakistan because they simply could not understand it and hence,this particular model of city was discontined.


    I-dsi:- I-dsi stands for Intelligence-dual and sequential ignation.In this type of engine,two spark plugs are employed for each cylinder.That makes 8 spark plugs instead of 4 plugs used by most cars.Adding of an additional plug assures complete burning and utilizing the last drop of fuel thrown into the cylinders which would provide you the best performace and better fuel consumption.Not all the times the 8 plugs are working,but when u push your car through high revs or speeds,all of them work simeltaneously and thats when ypu can feel the difference.But theres one drawback in it,this engine is equiped with 8 valves not 16.Hence it decreased the performance and city seems to be out of breath after 5000RPMs,but as this is basically a family car,performance is not the priority.The best thing about this was the fuel economy,about which,you can read the paragraph below.

    Fifth generation (2009 onwards) On 31th january 2009,the fifth generation of the honda City was launched in Pakistan.Which was an immediate hit among the fans.The previous Honda City was criticised due to its shape,but this time the best thing was the shape,which is even more aerodynamic then the previous one and also resembles the big Honda brothers,Civic and Accord.The best thing about the exterior of this City is the front view of the car.The wide,sleek and elegently designed radiator grill gives a refreashing look to the car.The dimesions of the car are almost similar to those of the older model.The sharp lines on the hood gives the city some attitude on the road.The boot space is increased about 25%,from 400ltrs to 506ltrs.But the good news doesnt end there,under the hood,There is a fairly powerful 1.3L SOHC VTEC engine.which produces a healthy 100bhp,enough for a 1.3L car.But dont think that you would have to lose something on the fuel economy side to get this sort of power.The fuel economy is actually improved.Some indian car expert magzines gave the figures of 22km/ltr for the auto transmission,which is the best in its class.The emission standards are improved as well.Previous city was Euro 3 compliant,but the new city is Euro 4 compliant.which means that your car is enviornment friendly.The only thing which you need to be concered about is the interior,which feels abit cramped campared to the previous City,but there is a reason to it.In the pervious city.the hood and the trunk had only a small portion of the exterior length covered,and the cabin was much bigger,which gave nice interior space,but from outside,the car looked ugly to some eyes.To correct this ugliness,the car was redesigned with increased hood and trunk length from outside,this made it look much better but the drawback was the lesser interior space.The second thing was the missing silver portions on the interior bits and panels of the Pakistani City.The interior would have felt lively only if some spots of it would have been in silver color.But you have alot other advantages,like 15" rims,ABS as standard,vtec engine,details of fuel milage on a special screen in the speedometer,huge boot and many other small things. In a nutshel,the new Honda City is much more refined comparitively to the previous one.The basic things which matter alot have been improved like the engine and the exterior design.The ride of the car is also improved,thanks to the small changes in the suspension.All in all,its still a great package if you see it the value-for-money way in Pakistani market atleast.


    Honda City Fan Club - 20012009 28429 17y pakwheels28com291 n1a pakwheels28com29 W8V PakWheels28com29











    Fuel Consumption:- The 2005 face-lifted Honda City i-DSI achieved an impressive 26.2km per liter of fuel consumption during a challenge in June 2007. The challenge requires the vehicle to be occupied by 4 persons (including the driver), air conditioning being switched on and a load of luggage. The whole route stretched more than 660km that consists of not only highway driving but also hill climbing. ==================================== Source:-My self mostly,wikipedia and Honda atlas.


    In Short:- In short,according to me,all this proves that Honda City has been a great car for a family to have at all times for more than a decade now.It has proven its self to be a complete car one would need at a price tag it is available for.An im one of the thousands of satisfied owners of it for the past one year. Now all we need are your comments and thoughts upon this small wonder.And also do make sure you post some pix of your own city if you have,of any model.Please feel free to express your feelings about this car.

    Maintainence schedule:-

    There have been a lot of queries regarding the maintainence shedule of Honda City. To help find members and guests find this information easily and quickly, i am writing the complete maintainence shedule which i have been following for the past 5 years for my car (180,000kms).Cost of completing the job may/may not be stated. Some of it may not be the same as that in maintainence book provided by Honda people. In that case, i ll state the reason of the difference.Here goes.

    Oils:-
    Havoline formula 10W30 (3.7ltr) and oil filter change @ 3000kms. Cost 1900rs

    Transmission oil (Manual transmission) 2 ltr @ 40,000kms.
    Honda original oil 1980rs (2ltr)
    Good quality Zic/ micking oil 800rs (2ltr)

    Transmission oil ( Automatic transmission) 2lre @ 35,000kms
    Honda CVT oil ONLY (3.2-3.4L.) 1980rs

    Brake oil
    Keep it topped up and change only if padel feels very soft n goes wayy down.
    Honda original oil

    Clutch operation oil
    Keep it topped up and change only if you it shows signs of trouble

    Parts change:-

    Brake pads change:-
    recommended @ 30,000kms
    Can use any good quality pads. (labour 400rs for 4 wheels plus pads, from 500rs to 2500rs)

    Fuel filter change @ 40,000kms (IF driven on petrol)

    Air filter change @ 10,000kms Original Honda filter is best.Good quality guard filter is good too.
    980rs for OEM, 350rs for Guard filter.

    Spark plugs @ 20,000kms Original Honda plugs (8 plugs for idsi. 4 for steermatic, new city ivtec and before-2003 model City)

    Timing belt. Not required. From 2003 onwards, all honda Citys have timing chains instead of belts.They usually last a life time.

    Tune-ups :-

    Throttle body service @ 20,000kms Cost around 500rs
    Tappets adjustment / valve clearence @ 20,000kms Cost around 500rs

    Brake adjustment front not required after pads change. rear @ 30,000kms (or when front pads changed)

    Expected Life of Some parts:-

    Brake pads 35,000kms if driven aggressively ( cost already mentioned)
    Clutch plate 110,000kms if driven aggressively ( around 2000rs labour and 6000rs for clutch+pressure plate)
    Clutch bearing 150,000kms (So change with clutch plate) (800rs)
    Tuneups can be delayed to 30,000kms IF the car is run in clean enviornment like in Islamabad etc (less dust)
    Engine oil change can be delays to 5,000kms but not good in long run.

    Service Manual Honda City ids-i 2003-2008:-
    http://www.putlocker.com/file/CED54F8B8FB00360

    Tip for keeping automatic transmission (Vario and steermatic) healthy on CNG:-
    Change engine oil at 3,000kms MAX.
    Tranny oil at 30,000kms
    Tune up (throttle and valve clearence) at 20,000kms
    Do NOT ignore idleing problems. Rough idleing means jerks to transmission and thats what kills it on CNG.
    Keep air filter clean and change at 10,000kms max.

    Instrument cluster cleaning DIY
    https://www.pakwheels.com/forums/d-i...ening-cleaning
    Console box opening and spray painting DIY
    https://www.pakwheels.com/forums/d-i...-respray-diy-1
    A/c service, the easy way
    https://www.pakwheels.com/forums/air...ck-c-service-1
    Honda City GTG at kallar kahar
    https://www.pakwheels.com/forums/get...g-kallar-kahar
    2nd Honda City GTG at kallar kahar
    https://www.pakwheels.com/forums/get...ar-23-dec-12-a

    Thats all for now.
    When the power of love exceeds the love for power, the world will finally know peace=Every man is guilty of all the good he didn't do

  2. #8121
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    Quote Originally Posted by zohairimtiaz View Post
    Innocent Bro, I own 2010 City, with not much mileage (Less Than 30,000KM) and unlike earlier i am getting only 10 to 10.5 KM per Litre.. Got it tuned from Honda, Throttle Body Serviced, blah blah their complete package.. but i am unable to get back to previous Mileage of 13 Kmpl.

    I love the car, but if mileage stays the same i am gonna sale it very soon ... !!!

    Thanks for the reply bro ,
    13 is a good figure but 10 to 10.5 is not good for 1.3
    fuel avg wise i think a japenese 1.5 city will give better result
    My reborn is giving me 9 km/l with 17inch alloys and mixed driving style ( sometimes slow sometimes fast ), thts really good for a 1.8ltr with bigger rims and auto tranny
    PREDATOR 11th Gen Corolla and RED MAMBA Reborn...
    Blast from the Past Sabre 9th gen Civic n Blue Max Reborn...

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    Quote Originally Posted by a_n_memon88 View Post
    I can see from your reply that you studies really hard for your exams and I wish you best of luck for results.

    Dear ab maza aayay ga koi to mila bahass karnay wala.

    Now coming to the point. I do know that its the gears that determine how fast a car goes and almost everybody with some knowledge of cars knows that. The tires getting in contact with road surface is also a sort of gear system. As you have seen as soon as we change the tire size the averages change drastically.

    Saying that it is the gear ratios that determine how fast a car can go but what is the limiting factor here. To take it as a simple thing what if you put reborn manual gear in an idsi will it also reach 220 as its top speed and 110 in 2nd gear. I know that you might have though about that sometime as you are also car enthusiast like me.

    Coming to the point yes the gear ratios do determine how fast and at what speed a car goes but the most important thing is the torque and bhp figures at a given rpm for a certain car. That is why the bigger the car engine is it can achieve high speeds at lower rpms. Imagine if you put a manual accord gearbox in an idsi will it achieve the same speeds in all the gear. Answer is yes the top speed will be the same in lower gear but the time the car will take to gain speed will be too much given the fact that the car has too low bhp to move at a certain speed.

    Let me explain you by an example. Suppose idsi reaches 50km/h in 1st, 90km/h in 2nd, 130km/hr in 3rd, 165km/hr in 4th and 200km/hr in 5th at 6000 rpms. Say if you put the gear box of car that reaches 60km/h in 1st, 110km/h in 2nd, 155km/hr in 3rd, 195km/h in 4th and 230 km/h in 5th at 6000 rpm in an idsi. Now what will happen

    The simple effect would be that idsi will have faster and higher top speeds in lower gears up till mid range of 4th gear like say 180-185km/hr because at that speed idsi will run out of bhp's to counter air and road resistance. But another thing will happen. Lets take 2nd gear with stock gear box the car will be at 45km/hr at 3000rpms now with gear box of a faster car it will be running at 55km/hr at 3000rpms. Here the most important thing is how much bhp and torque the car has at 3000 rpms to achieve this much speed. If the has the torque and bhps to move it from 40-45 in 1 second than it will take around 1.5 second to move from 50-55 in 2nd gear at same rpms i.e 3000. I know I am being too complex here but I believe you can understand what I meant to say

    Let me sum up the example. Yes the main thing that determines how much speed a car achieves at a certain rpms is its gear ratios but the thing that leads engineers to define those gear ratios is the torque and bhps of the car at certain rpms. Before the advent of computers they used to do it manually by large sheets and huge numbers but now they do it by the means of a computer. There is always a best setting or you can say a perfect combo between the engine and gearbox. If you deviate from that perfect combo you might have higher top speeds in all the gears but the pick up of the car will fall similarly you can reduce the top speeds of the car in a certain gear the pick of the car will be very good.

    To understand this thing there is a game called EA sports F1 2004 where you can go to workshop and modify your cars gear by changing the ratios.

    Yes it is possible to have a car with a single gear no problem in that but that will require a lot of force to move in first gear and that force will not be provided by the engine but by the clutch plate, in that case we may have to change clutch plate everyday. Remember riding a bicycle if you have to move it from a standstill you know how much force is required, that bicycle only has 1 gear.

    About the compression ratios yes they effect how much power the car produce and I have learned that higher the compression ratio the more power the car will produce but you have to keep in mind that there is no detonation or pre ignition.

    About the efficiency of engines dear you stated it way to low the petrol engines have efficiency of 55-60% and diesels have an efficiency of 70-75%.

    BTW this discussion was meant to be a healthy and no offence meant to anyone

    Regards
    well, first things first. i DONT study hard for exams so i really need ur well wishes to pass. thanks for those.

    Moving on to the topic under discussion. i believe we both were talking about the same thing and we both understand how things work but we both were looking at the subject from a different perspective. I was saying that even if u somehow double the torque available in an engine, the car would still do a specific speed (say 60km/h) on a certain RPM (say 3000) UNLESS you change the gearbox.

    And you are saying that if u double the torque of an engine, the engine will have the ABILITY to do 60km/h at much lower RPMs (say 1500) and yes you are right. I do believe the engineers look at a lot of factors when deciding the gear ratios and one of them, infact the most important one of the would be gear ratios. So i think we both agree the simply giving a car a larger engine (everything else remaining same) would NOT enable it to do a certain speed in lower RPM then before ALTHOUGH it may now have the ABILITY to do so.

    btw, every now and then i hear guys saying 'meri civic dosray gear mai 110 karti hy'. i tell them their civics are awesome but i actually laugh at their understanding. they somehow believe that indicates the power or health of the engine which it does not! its about gear ratios.

    Anyways, i have highlighted some of the phrases in ur posts that i dont agree with or i dont understand. i ll go through them one by one.

    1) Tire change does not actually effects the fuel economy (if thats what u mean by average) if u increase the width, THAT effects the economy but if u increase the height (profile) of the tire, then the gear ratios are disturbed and ur car wud do more speed then ur speedo is telling u. so the REAL speed may be 105km/h when the speedo is showing 100km/h. im sure u understand this but u know, open forum, we gotta keep things clear for everyone.

    2) Understanding the concept of BHP and torque is very difficult. or atleast, thats what i felt and even today i do not have complete understanding of it. what i understood is, torque is how MUCH work an engine can do and BHP is how FAST the engine can do that work. See diesel engines have lot of torque (ability to do work) but very less bhp (ability to reach the maximum output as quick as possible) so they accelerate slow but can climb hills or haul luggage easily. i believe, since we are not talking about acceleration, bhp is not relevant here. infact, engines dont even MAKE bhp. they make torque, and no machine ever in the world has been made to calculate bhp of an engine. the dynos take torque figure and puts them into a formula to get the bhp figure. mentioning bhp here wud mean we are talking about how FAST a car can reach 60km/h in 2nd gear. but we are talking about rpm and speed only.

    3) Again, it wud run out of torque, not bhp.

    4) I did not understand. how does a clutch provide power? it only transmits it and it also wastes some of it during shifts, by slipping a little bit.

    5) thats not correct. im pretty confident. I googled it and found a lot of sources that claim petrol to have a max of 35-40% efficiency and diesel a bit more then that. The ICE (Internal combustion Engine) is not a very efficient form of engine. I believe the rotary configurations would give the best efficiency but still not even close to the figures u quoted.

    6) why wud anyone, including me, take any offence out of that post? we're all here to 'buy,sell,discuss' remember?
    When the power of love exceeds the love for power, the world will finally know peace=Every man is guilty of all the good he didn't do

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    Quote Originally Posted by sheikh_wah View Post
    No need to disagree as I also believe that in given conditions it should have worked fine and it shouldn't be the limit for this city iDSI. This problem means some kind of ISSUE in something that I want to locate and get fixed. Your suggestion regarding condenser is a good lead and I'll definitely get it checked properly. My point (in your quoted text) was to confirm the capability and limits of this vehicle as this was my first such attempt on this car. My remarks were in response to what u mentioned with reference to cities and n5 otherwise I had no doubts in your exposure and capability and I had no intentions to challenge your 300k experience .

    As far as Arab is considered, I know only about KSA and I believe it?s a different story. Vehicles commonly used there are much bigger and powerful than the vehicles we commonly use here in Pak. I can not imagine stretching my Honda City (or even any Honda Civic) to compare with what people do with their Caprice, Crownvictoria or GMC Suburban etc. there in Saudia.
    Sir i never felt challenged neither i have any pool of knowledge which could be challenged. i only have a small time experience with my tiny little work horse that has been around for a few years.
    and as for ksa cars, i would disagree yet again larger engines mean higher temperature. an S class engine would idle at hotter temperature then a cultus engine's max revved temperature. once again, if the cooling system is efficient, it shouldnt be a problem. so, start there...
    When the power of love exceeds the love for power, the world will finally know peace=Every man is guilty of all the good he didn't do

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    Quote Originally Posted by InNoCeNt_DeViL View Post
    Thanks for the reply bro ,
    13 is a good figure but 10 to 10.5 is not good for 1.3
    fuel avg wise i think a japenese 1.5 city will give better result
    My reborn is giving me 9 km/l with 17inch alloys and mixed driving style ( sometimes slow sometimes fast ), thts really good for a 1.8ltr with bigger rims and auto tranny
    i Totally agree, My Father's Manual Reborn is giving 11 KMPL in CIty with AC On All the time.. i am honestly lost at what to do with my city, out of no where i am thinking that may be my AC is putting extra load on the car that is resulting in more petrol consumption

    Any Ideas ??

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    Guys! i have decided to sell my Civic 00 and upgrade to city 06

    Now in doing so i see the following benefits
    Newer model, lower miles on ODO and better mileage

    i am mostly concerned about its breaks and heating
    as civic has ABS and 4 wheel discs
    so i wanted to ask pros and cons of buying a 06 city

    And price idea of a clean 06 city with under 100k on odo and black or silver color according to Islamabad/Rawalpindi prices
    and a small review about its performance will be good
    like about spares, performance, common problems etc

    Thanks in advance
    Year 2012 --> GT I9000 --> HTC Z710e --> GT-I9100 --> Galaxy Nexus --> HTC One X --> Note N7000 -->One S --> __?__

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChooZaa View Post
    how much honda 3s charges for changing tranny oil and fuel filter for vario 07?
    anyone?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChooZaa View Post
    anyone?
    Fuel filter should be near 5-7k.
    Transmission oil must be around 5k or so(not sure).

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    Quote Originally Posted by zohairimtiaz View Post
    i Totally agree, My Father's Manual Reborn is giving 11 KMPL in CIty with AC On All the time.. i am honestly lost at what to do with my city, out of no where i am thinking that may be my AC is putting extra load on the car that is resulting in more petrol consumption

    Any Ideas ??
    try liquimoly or toyota injector cleaners that did help a friend's city whose avg had dropped from 16-17 to12-13
    haters gonna hate, potatoes gonna potate

  10. #8129
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    Quote Originally Posted by a_n_memon88 View Post
    Okay than let me post pic of the used spark plugs and other components of head of my cars engine from last tuneup. The tuneup was done 400kms ago and the mileage was 104,000km. To me the engine is super clean and living a healthy life but it consumes oil at rate that I stated. 200 ml after 2000kms and 300 ml after 3000kms. Note that there is no carbon on spark plugs and there tips is red
    Honda City Fan Club -1123413Honda City Fan Club -1123414Honda City Fan Club -1123415Honda City Fan Club -1123416Honda City Fan Club -1123417Honda City Fan Club -1123418Honda City Fan Club -1123419

    Reason you car consumes oil must be a leakage under the oil pan. You can cross check this leakage by looking at the oil pan underneath the car. It was recently taken off and reinstalled with new silicon and since then oil disappearance problem has been solved. Very common issues with 04-08 honda city.

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    Quote Originally Posted by talhawaleed View Post
    Reason you car consumes oil must be a leakage under the oil pan. You can cross check this leakage by looking at the oil pan underneath the car. It was recently taken off and reinstalled with new silicon and since then oil disappearance problem has been solved. Very common issues with 04-08 honda city.
    No there is no oil leakage as such, yes there used to be oil leakage but now its no more. Let me tell you the reason for that leakage. The city idsi oil capacity is 3.6 litre with the bigger filter and 3.5 with smaller size filter. Since the packaging is in 4 litres what oil change shops do is start pouring the oil and when the feel its only little amount left in the bottle they stop filling, insert the dipstick and show you that oil is at the level. Once you get back home and park the car the level rises above the full mark as the oil drain down from the head.

    The oil change shops go with their andazaas and their andazaas can either fill 3.5 liter or 3.7 litre oil. With oil above full mark the oil pressure increase much more than the seals can bear and they start to leak and hence the common problem in city.

    The solutions for this are either get the original honda bottle of 3.6 litres or open the can yourself at home and pour exactly half litre or slightly less in a half litre nestle bottle and give the remaining 3.5-3.6 litre to the oil change shop. That way the seals will never get damaged.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TaLaL786 View Post
    Guys! i have decided to sell my Civic 00 and upgrade to city 06

    Now in doing so i see the following benefits
    Newer model, lower miles on ODO and better mileage

    i am mostly concerned about its breaks and heating
    as civic has ABS and 4 wheel discs
    so i wanted to ask pros and cons of buying a 06 city

    And price idea of a clean 06 city with under 100k on odo and black or silver color according to Islamabad/Rawalpindi prices
    and a small review about its performance will be good
    like about spares, performance, common problems etc

    Thanks in advance
    @huzaifaa is the man

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    Quote Originally Posted by ahmadbila View Post
    Sir i never felt challenged neither i have any pool of knowledge which could be challenged. i only have a small time experience with my tiny little work horse that has been around for a few years.
    and as for ksa cars, i would disagree yet again larger engines mean higher temperature. an S class engine would idle at hotter temperature then a cultus engine's max revved temperature. once again, if the cooling system is efficient, it shouldnt be a problem. so, start there...
    If the S class idle temperature is higher than its cooling system will be built to compensate that fact as well. A thing you need to understand is that we are living in pakistan and here cars are assembled poorly and maintained poorly so cant compare them with quality built and maintained cars of KSA

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    Quote Originally Posted by ahmadbila View Post
    well, first things first. i DONT study hard for exams so i really need ur well wishes to pass. thanks for those.

    Moving on to the topic under discussion. i believe we both were talking about the same thing and we both understand how things work but we both were looking at the subject from a different perspective. I was saying that even if u somehow double the torque available in an engine, the car would still do a specific speed (say 60km/h) on a certain RPM (say 3000) UNLESS you change the gearbox.

    And you are saying that if u double the torque of an engine, the engine will have the ABILITY to do 60km/h at much lower RPMs (say 1500) and yes you are right. I do believe the engineers look at a lot of factors when deciding the gear ratios and one of them, infact the most important one of the would be gear ratios. So i think we both agree the simply giving a car a larger engine (everything else remaining same) would NOT enable it to do a certain speed in lower RPM then before ALTHOUGH it may now have the ABILITY to do so.

    btw, every now and then i hear guys saying 'meri civic dosray gear mai 110 karti hy'. i tell them their civics are awesome but i actually laugh at their understanding. they somehow believe that indicates the power or health of the engine which it does not! its about gear ratios.

    Anyways, i have highlighted some of the phrases in ur posts that i dont agree with or i dont understand. i ll go through them one by one.

    1) Tire change does not actually effects the fuel economy (if thats what u mean by average) if u increase the width, THAT effects the economy but if u increase the height (profile) of the tire, then the gear ratios are disturbed and ur car wud do more speed then ur speedo is telling u. so the REAL speed may be 105km/h when the speedo is showing 100km/h. im sure u understand this but u know, open forum, we gotta keep things clear for everyone.

    2) Understanding the concept of BHP and torque is very difficult. or atleast, thats what i felt and even today i do not have complete understanding of it. what i understood is, torque is how MUCH work an engine can do and BHP is how FAST the engine can do that work. See diesel engines have lot of torque (ability to do work) but very less bhp (ability to reach the maximum output as quick as possible) so they accelerate slow but can climb hills or haul luggage easily. i believe, since we are not talking about acceleration, bhp is not relevant here. infact, engines dont even MAKE bhp. they make torque, and no machine ever in the world has been made to calculate bhp of an engine. the dynos take torque figure and puts them into a formula to get the bhp figure. mentioning bhp here wud mean we are talking about how FAST a car can reach 60km/h in 2nd gear. but we are talking about rpm and speed only.

    3) Again, it wud run out of torque, not bhp.

    4) I did not understand. how does a clutch provide power? it only transmits it and it also wastes some of it during shifts, by slipping a little bit.

    5) thats not correct. im pretty confident. I googled it and found a lot of sources that claim petrol to have a max of 35-40% efficiency and diesel a bit more then that. The ICE (Internal combustion Engine) is not a very efficient form of engine. I believe the rotary configurations would give the best efficiency but still not even close to the figures u quoted.

    6) why wud anyone, including me, take any offence out of that post? we're all here to 'buy,sell,discuss' remember?
    Dear here are the answers.

    1 changing tire size definitely affects economy. Now I will take a simple example suppose there is a car with stock tire size having circumference of 1m. Now this car requires 1000 wheel turnings to cover a km. Now suppose you increase the tire size having circumference of 1.25 m. Now this car will require 800 rotations to cover a km. One can say that as the wheels will be moving at same rpms lets say suppose they move 1000 rotations in a given time in both the cases. With stock tires car will cover 1km but with bigger tires it will cover 1.25 km. But that is not the case to cover those extra 0.25 kms you will require some energy and that energy will be obviously come from increase in amount of fuel consumed for each car per 1000 rotations. So that will make the mileage almost equal but their are other things as well. Some of them are as the tire size is increase so will be the tires weight, Imagine running with reebok lightweight shoes and than with some crap chinnes stuff which weighs more. Another more important thing is the some BHP and torque thing. As the wheels are bigger the car will have to cover more distance per rotation now the thing is that does a rotation of engine contains enough power to cover that extra distance with same force. So if a rotation of an engine has enough power to move the wheel for say only 1.1 m in a rotation the car will struggle to move it 1.25m.

    One thing here is important that with an increase in tire size you have to cover some extra distance per rotation now to over that extra distance you will need to provide some energy. It this was not the case than every other car would have atleast 20 inches wheel so that the car could go fast. Decreasing the tire size can actually allow you to achieve more speed than stock tire size. I have a honda city 2005 manual from japan and it says the car tire size to be 15 inches but why was it reduced here for the simple reason that with smaller tires it is easier for the car to gain speed. I observed the same thing in my city previously it had 195/65 R14 and am now using 185/65 R14 and believe me the car just did not go beyond 140 with those tires and now with these I have hit 155 couple of times.

    2 There is a lot on the net regarding BHP and torque but the simplest I can say is that the torque helps you to achieve a certain speed and afterwards it is the BHP that has to maintain that speed. Lets say the torque in your car allows you to reach a speed of 160 but if the car does not have enough BHPs to maintain the speed of 160 kms the torque would not be able to increase the speed to 161 it will simply remain around the point of 159-160. One could ask that why the speed does not below 159 it could be that the car does not have enough bhp to run the car even at 150. Answer here is that the car simply would not achieve a speed that its BHP cannot support no matter how much torque the car has. This is the reason why the cars that have weaker engines have greater top speed in 4th gear than 5th gear. Sometimes the cars speed in 4th gear is higher than the cars speed in 5th gear but the engine is in top notch condition this happen at very high speed. Let me take another example suppose a car has maximum BHPs at 5700 rpm of around 80bhp. Those 80 bhp are only able to run the said car at speed of 170km/hr. The car reaches 170 in 4th gear at around 5700 rpms and 170 in 5th gear at around 5000 rpms. Since the car has 80 bhp that can support a speed of only 170 at around 5700 rpm so this car will never reach 170 in 5th gear rather in 5th gear its maximum speed will be around 155-160 but if downshifthed at that point to 4th the car will gain speed upto its maximum speed of 170. Higher the speed the car bhp can support the higher torque you will require to move forward. Like the torque required for a car to move from 140-141 will quite lower than those reuired to mover the car from 240-241. I hope I made my point clear

    3 you got me slightly wrong there I never meant to say that clutches provide power. They always combine 2 moving parts together such that they move in unison. Where the clutch is used one object is moving at high speed and the other a low speed now clutch takes a lot of beating to try to move both wheels together. The example I narrated was if there is only a single gear in a car. Suppose the car has top speed of 150 at 6000 rpm. At around 1000 rpms the car would have speed of 25km/hr and at 500 rpms the speed would be around 12 km/hr. You know the idling rpms and also know that how much force will be required to mover the car from 0-25 in a split second. That would require a lot of power and that power will be supplied by the clutch and the clutch will take great beating in return.

    About 5 well you might be rite

    About 6 I would say there is very little info on pakwheels about the cars mechanical and it is also most important for car enthusiasts.

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    i installed 35 Watts H11 in 8000k in my city fog Lights today

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    <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:TrackMoves/> <w:TrackFormatting/> <wunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <waveIfXMLInvalid>false</waveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <woNotPromoteQF/> <w:LidThemeOther>EN-US</w:LidThemeOther> <w:LidThemeAsian>X-NONE</w:LidThemeAsian> <w:LidThemeComplexScript>X-NONE</w:LidThemeComplexScript> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <wnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <wontGrowAutofit/> <wplitPgBreakAndParaMark/> <wontVertAlignCellWithSp/> <wontBreakConstrainedForcedTables/> <wontVertAlignInTxbx/> <w:Word11KerningPairs/> <w:CachedColBalance/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> <m:mathPr> <m:mathFont m:val="Cambria Math"/> <m:brkBin m:val="before"/> <m:brkBinSub m:val="--"/> <m:smallFrac m:val="off"/> <m:dispDef/> <m:lMargin m:val="0"/> <m:rMargin m:val="0"/> <m:defJc m:val="centerGroup"/> <m:wrapIndent m:val="1440"/> <m:intLim m:val="subSup"/> <m:naryLim m:val="undOvr"/> </m:mathPr></w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> Just wanted to ask, how do we wire Honda?s iDSI a plugs wiring with CNG KIT. I have never been satisfied with its performance on CNG, recently I felt that since this vehicle has eight Plugs so most likely mechanic would not have wired all with its CNG Kit. I have disconnected one by one from each cylinder but did not experience any poor idling which is strange as once one cylinder is disconnected then it should show poor idling but did not observe any such things. Your valuable input would be really very helpful. <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" DefUnhideWhenUsed="true" DefSemiHidden="true" DefQFormat="false" DefPriority="99" LatentStyleCount="267"> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="0" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Normal"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="heading 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 7"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 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  17. #8136
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    Quote Originally Posted by margallar View Post
    try liquimoly or toyota injector cleaners that did help a friend's city whose avg had dropped from 16-17 to12-13
    Margallar where can i get Liquimoly in karachi ? any suggestions.. ???

  18. #8137
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    Quote Originally Posted by zohairimtiaz View Post
    Margallar where can i get Liquimoly in karachi ? any suggestions.. ???
    i don't know about karachi...but the toyota one can be bought at dealerships for around 1500...my friend got liquimoly for 750
    haters gonna hate, potatoes gonna potate

  19. #8138
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    Quote Originally Posted by talhawaleed View Post
    <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:TrackMoves/> <w:TrackFormatting/> <wunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <waveIfXMLInvalid>false</waveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <woNotPromoteQF/> <w:LidThemeOther>EN-US</w:LidThemeOther> <w:LidThemeAsian>X-NONE</w:LidThemeAsian> <w:LidThemeComplexScript>X-NONE</w:LidThemeComplexScript> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <wnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <wontGrowAutofit/> <wplitPgBreakAndParaMark/> <wontVertAlignCellWithSp/> <wontBreakConstrainedForcedTables/> <wontVertAlignInTxbx/> <w:Word11KerningPairs/> <w:CachedColBalance/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> <m:mathPr> <m:mathFont m:val="Cambria Math"/> <m:brkBin m:val="before"/> <m:brkBinSub m:val="--"/> <m:smallFrac m:val="off"/> <m:dispDef/> <m:lMargin m:val="0"/> <m:rMargin m:val="0"/> <m:defJc m:val="centerGroup"/> <m:wrapIndent m:val="1440"/> <m:intLim m:val="subSup"/> <m:naryLim m:val="undOvr"/> </m:mathPr></w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> Just wanted to ask, how do we wire Honda?s iDSI a plugs wiring with CNG KIT. I have never been satisfied with its performance on CNG, recently I felt that since this vehicle has eight Plugs so most likely mechanic would not have wired all with its CNG Kit. I have disconnected one by one from each cylinder but did not experience any poor idling which is strange as once one cylinder is disconnected then it should show poor idling but did not observe any such things. Your valuable input would be really very helpful. <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" DefUnhideWhenUsed="true" DefSemiHidden="true" DefQFormat="false" DefPriority="99" LatentStyleCount="267"> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="0" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Normal"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="heading 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 7"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 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    Plugs are never wired with the CNG kit in any CNG setup. In efi that is the injectors which are connected to the CNG setup. The wiring to the injectors is bypassed and goes through the advancer emmulator where it cuts power supply to the injectors and also fakes the signals of injectors to show ecu that they are working hence no error code. What you probably did was disconnect the injectors from the CNG setup while still they were off and the car was on CNG. Try doing this while the car is on petrol and you will see for yourself.

    BTW in idsi the 2 plugs do not fire at the same time. The primary plug fires all the time and the secondary one fires on certain engine rpm levels preset in the ecu. That is the reason why rear coils and plugs are in better shape as compared to the front ones

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    Quote Originally Posted by ahmadbila View Post
    Sir i never felt challenged neither i have any pool of knowledge which could be challenged. i only have a small time experience with my tiny little work horse that has been around for a few years.
    and as for ksa cars, i would disagree yet again larger engines mean higher temperature. an S class engine would idle at hotter temperature then a cultus engine's max revved temperature. once again, if the cooling system is efficient, it shouldnt be a problem. so, start there...
    What's the point of disagreement now? I didn't mention anything in my post about the temparature (high/low) of a larger engine

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    Salam All i have facing a problem in my idsi 2007 cng after throtle service. problem when ac is on rpm goes down from 1000 to 600 approx when accelerate slowly after stoping the car on signals/speedbrakers and then its normal and car running fine but because of this problem i missed the smooth drive of my idsi please any one help me on this.... because three times i done cng setting from cng wala but he says city ka tou yahi masla rahta ha aur sub city aisi hi karti hain i know usne apni jaan chorwaney k liye aisa kaha kyo k uski khud samj ma nai ara k problem kiya ha

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