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Thread: Advise required - CNG consumption of civic exi prosmatec

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    Default Advise required - CNG consumption of civic exi prosmatec

    aoa to all PWs!

    I need advice/ expert opinion regarding CNG mileage of my 2005 civic exi (prosmatec) which has gone down after every passing week.first, some background of the issue.

    It all started approx 8 month ago, when i decided to get my CNG kit and 55 kg cylinder cleaned (although i was not having any issues).since then,its cng consumption has gone from 100+ to 80/85 and now around 70/75 km ( i dont use AC that much and try to keep it below 2500 rpm, and no hard revving)

    in Rwp, i have gone to 5 to 6 CNG mechs, they all have tried there 'todkas' with confidence without any result at all and loss of money as well. following things already done a number of times.
    a. general CNG tuning ( gas pressure/ air flow/ adjusment).experiments done from either keeping them too low to too high as well with no advantage
    b. throttle body/ map sensor cleaning twice from different mechs.
    c. tappet setting.
    d installation of automatic screw for gas adjustment (mech told me that this device is connected with emulator and after this no cng setting will be req..but no result either)
    e. cng leakage checking.
    f. spark plugs change twice.
    g. air filters of different quality thrice.

    NOW, after all that , do you guys suggest that there is something else to be checked also. i mean all mechs say that this being a 1.5 lit car should easily do 120 km + in a cylinder in city driving (despite being auto tramsmission) but actually it is doing almost half

    need desperate advice/ help or reference of a realy good mech of cng in rawalpindi. thanks


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    guys anyone

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    Is there any change in acceleration or power?
    Death is not the greatest loss in life. The greatest loss is what dies inside us while we live.

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    yes, acceleration is pretty disapointing for a 1.5 lit car, my current setting is at minimum cng input.. once i switch on the AC,the car starts crawling even on a straight road. hence reducing the cng quantity had no effect as well n still it only did 75 km in a full cylinder

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    WOW, seems like you have tried it all, I get 140+ easily with 55l cylinder on vti prosmatic so there is something really messed up for you. I was about to suggest to check for leakage but since you have it checked, that can not be issue. Strange!!

    What engine oil are you using? Also when you have that cylinder cleaned, what else did you do?

    Have you checked the brakes? Do tires rotate freely whilst driving?

    Have you checked driving on petrol? is it normal with it?
    ...

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    @imtiz_ahmed
    bro thanks for the concern

    - regarding leakage .. got it checked by mechs who use the method of applying soap water on all likely points . . moreover i used to check the needle guage installed with the cylinder once the car is not in use , just to ensure tat there is no leakage. other wise it should go down slowly whether the car is running or not.

    - is there a possibility of leakage during running ? i mean once driving maybe some part of cng vibrates with the engine and let the gas go ?????

    - me using shell engine oil since ages (yellow one)
    - disc brakes recently changed with new 'nissin' ones
    - drive on petrol is perfect. my rough estimation is tat petrol use mite be more economical than cng . .which is quite strange

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    Quote Originally Posted by thread175 View Post
    @imtiz_ahmed
    bro thanks for the concern

    - regarding leakage .. got it checked by mechs who use the method of applying soap water on all likely points . . moreover i used to check the needle guage installed with the cylinder once the car is not in use , just to ensure tat there is no leakage. other wise it should go down slowly whether the car is running or not.

    - is there a possibility of leakage during running ? i mean once driving maybe some part of cng vibrates with the engine and let the gas go ?????

    - me using shell engine oil since ages (yellow one)
    - disc brakes recently changed with new 'nissin' ones
    - drive on petrol is perfect. my rough estimation is tat petrol use mite be more economical than cng . .which is quite strange
    Haha, this is very good because we wont have CNG in near future anyways...

    It seems that the problem in CNG only. I am sorry I am not aware of any option to check the leakages while driving. Did you monitor the needle overnight to see if it stays same? Also how many KGs are filled in cylinder when it is empty?
    ...

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    yes i do check the needle regularly...n there is not even a slight variation even after a couple of days (if i dont use the car)

    approx 9 KGs of gas is filled in it (i.e Rs 600 for only 75 km )
    these are definately terrible stats for any driver!!

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    salaam , get the plug coils and advancer checked .

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    sorry to hear about all the trouble you're having. i have 4 suggestions, 3 are easy and the last is time consuming:

    1/ your gas regulator (looks like 2 deep dinner plates stuck together) was cleaned and opened with petrol when you had your cng fuelling system cleaned/serviced. please have the rubber bladder inside the regulator housing and the spring loaded gas feed valve (leading out of the regulator body) checked for leaks or for sticking

    2/ have your main gas feed valve (looks like a large marker made out of brass) checked for sticking

    3/ have your gas feed lines (both the metal ones and the reinforced rubber ones) checked for pinch-points for for physical obstructions (there may be something stuck inside the pipes themselves)

    4/ start swapping out cng kit parts one by one to find the problem in the cng system by process of elimination.

    if none of this works then question the truth about all the earlier corrections you've made to the car (i.e. did you see the throttle-body and MAP sensor cleaned yourself, or are you taking someone else's word on it? did the lambda-system get programmed correctly to feed gas via the automatic gas-feed controller you have installed recently?)

    hope this helps? btw, how is the car idling on cng? and how does it idle on cng with the a/c turned on?

    regards,

    v
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    there is a remote possibility that your safety valve (directly connected to the gas storage cylinder and feeding the cng system via metal piping) is not feeding gas at the correct flow rate. it's tricky to diagnose because the car will start okay and idle okay but when you need more gas flow when the car is accelerated you don't get adequate gas flow volume and the system is starved of gas. this leads to weak response when you try to speed up. but this is a very rare thing.

    when you fill up your cylinder at the pump, does it take more time or less time than it used to (when you didn't have this problem)?
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    another remote possibility is that this same safety valve (looks like a brass T screwed into the mouth of the gas storage cylinder) is partially closed down by the workshop staff (from the time when you had your cng system cleaned) or partially blocked because the interior seals of the ball mechanism inside have fragmented (or because the teflon tape used to seal the T valve into the mouth of the storage cylinder has unravelled into the cylinder thus creating a situation where gas can freely go into the cylinder but is obstructed when coming out).

    like i said before, these sorts of things are rare. but then, nothing should surprise us any more, eh?
    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. "
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    my apologies, i've been calling this last part a safety valve. it's actually a 3-way feed valve (with safeties built into it like a no-return valve). hope i haven't confused anyone by using the wrong terminology.
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    @vadvaro
    thnks for such a detailed insight. my response to your suggestions are as under:
    1. possibility of leakage in gas regulator (especially during running) cant be ruled out since it has not been opened after the last cleaning(through petrol)
    2. same is for gas feed valve
    3. the pipes can be checked but as i mentioned, this mileage issue was raised immediately after cng kit cleaning. physical damage to pipes mite not be possible.
    4. hope i dont have to go for option 4, cuz my past experience with cars suggest that whenever u try to find out an unknown problem, u always end up in knowing some more

    5.as far as gas filling time is concerned..it probably takes almost the same time

    6. the 3 way gas filling T brass can have the issue but how to check it..

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    @vadvaro

    once again thnks a lot.....

    but here is the real thing

    all or some of the things mentioned by u mite be the cause of problems

    now can any one suggest me some reliable mechs in rawalpindi who can do all tat...

    i mean every mechanic would claim to do all but very few know their job

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    another thing tat i have observed over this time

    whenever i get cng filled.. its needle guage goes upto 200 psi (meaning its full)
    from 200 to 100 reading.. it only travels 25 to 30 kms
    from 100 to 0(finish) .. it travels more , something around 45 to 50 kms

    maybe due to high pressure there is a leakage while driving.

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    guys any reference of a good, reliable CNG meachanic in rwp

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    ...

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    One of my cousin have an exi prosmatec. he get the same mileage 75-85 km/55kg tank. He did everything to solve it but nothing worked.
    According to me, get ur kit changed. there might be trouble in ur kit. Consult a mechanic. and is ur mileage with ac in city or on highway?

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    Is your emulator and advancer in a same device or they are separately connected??...check out your advancer...some times it stops working without giving any problem except low mileage...sometimes back i was getting same 80+ kms in one 55kg cylinder but once i went to the CNG mechanic for servicing and he informed me that your advancer is not working ( in my case advancer and emulator were in the same green color device), he then connected an external advancer only and now em getting 110+ kms in one cylinder on the raods of KHI.....i hope u will get your prob solved soon...

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