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Thread: Attention: 8th Generation Civic, 3rd Generation City and Accord owners (DBW related)

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    Default Attention: 8th Generation Civic, 3rd Generation City and Accord owners (DBW related)

    This is just a public service message that you should read if you own any of the following cars (I've also included advice for other brands towards the end):

    1. 8th Generation Civic
    2. 3rd Generation City (current model in other words)
    3. Accord CL-7/CL-9
    4. Accord Inspire (current model)

    Do not clean the throttle body of your cars from anywhere aside from a Honda 3S dealership. The reason for this is quite simple:

    - The throttle system on these cars is a fairly advanced drive-by-wire system (DBW) which learns its throttle opening and and idle settings over the period of driving the car. It also adapts to the carbon buildup around the throttle opening over time by a learning process and adjusting throttle sensitivity accordingly.

    If you end up cleaning this by yourself or at a non-Honda workshop the results will be as follows:

    - The car will lose its idle settings and the RPM will become erratic
    - The throttle response will be extremely twitchy and the car will become "nervous" randomly when giving or releasing throttle.
    - This behavior will continue and the car will become an irritation to drive until its reprogrammed at Honda

    The only way to clean the throttle body is to go to a Honda dealership, where they will clean the throttle body and then reprogram the car's throttle using the HDS (Honda Diagnostic System), this is a 15 minute computerized procedure which you *cannot* replicate anywhere else unless you have the HDS programmed for these cars.

    For CL-x series owners

    I am assuming this also applies to your cars, since the cars mentioned otherwise have carry-over systems which were originally designed on the CL series of Accords.

    For Toyota Corolla owners (current generation cars with electronic throttle)

    Your cars most likely are unaffected by this since they have an electronic throttle instead of a drive-by-wire. While similar to a drive-by-wire this system is different because it doesn't have a computerized learning system like the cars mentioned above. Therefore technically you should be able to clean the throttle bodies at unauthorized workshops/by yourself without any issues. In case you do face the mentioned problems definitely take your car to the Toyota dealership.

    Other cars with drive-by-wire (All Mercedes, BMW, Audi and Toyotas such as Mark X, Harrier etc)

    Mercedes, Audi and BMW throttle bodies should only be serviced at authorized centers as they're using the same DBW technology (with a learning system).

    And advanced Toyotas like Mark X, Harrier etc should totally avoid throttle body cleaning unless you're able to find a dealership which has the computerized programming procedure for these cars (highly unlikely).

    Mazda Rx-8

    The Rx-8 uses an electronic throttle which is unaffected by this problem. While it is a learning throttle system like the DBW, its learning process happens when the car's battery is unplugged. Rx-8 owners should clean their car's throttle body regularly as it is very susceptible to carbon buildup. This will keep your car running smoothly. Be sure to disconnect the battery when cleaning the throttle so that the ECU relearns the throttle system. Your car's RPM will be erratic for about 10 minutes of driving but it will become fine afterwards.

    For DSC equipped Rx-8s: Be sure to do the DSC re-calibration procedure after unplugging your car's battery.


    I hope this helps anyone who has faced this problem.

    Regards
    Asher

    ProSpeed Imports -- www.prospeedimports.com -- Car parts direct from USA, Japan & Europe to your doorstep! Email us at special.requests@prospeedimports.com. Don't forget to ask about our special car wrapping, change the color of your car without changing the paint ;-)

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    @cylestyne

    brother plz add Chevrolet Joy,Optra,aveo too in the list above

    these cars are also having extremely sensitive throttle bodies I learned it hard way buy paying whooping 4.5K at their dealership for reprogramming...
    my fault was i just used crab. cleaner spray
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    These cars don't have DBW, the issue you probably faced was because of improper reattachment of the throttle wires or sensor, maybe even a vacuum leak.
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    Thanks 4 sharing sir
    very informative

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    Well all i would like to add here is that if one can afford to buy a 1.8 million worth car then he certainly can afford to get it maintained from 3s dealer. If some one finds in expensive then he should stick with cheap cars which are in his affordability range.
    RIP

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    Quote Originally Posted by qwertypoiu View Post
    Well all i would like to add here is that if one can afford to buy a 1.8 million worth car then he certainly can afford to get it maintained from 3s dealer. If some one finds in expensive then he should stick with cheap cars which are in his affordability range.

    It's not about affordability, many people are DIYers who like doing this kind of stuff, however for these cars apparently it's not a DIY job given the complicated DBW system.
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    Very informative. (Y)
    R18 boyz!.....Powered by Honda

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cylestyne View Post
    These cars don't have DBW, the issue you probably faced was because of improper reattachment of the throttle wires or sensor, maybe even a vacuum leak.

    as i told you there i just sprayed crab. cleaner...i didnt remove any wire or sensor etc..
    there cars(joy,optra,aveo ) are having one hell of a complicated throttle body..

    if you still dont believe i can post a picture of receipt mentioning the bill of 4.5K for reprogramming...
    .........Tomorrow Never Comes Until Its Too Late........
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharo53 View Post
    as i told you there i just sprayed crab. cleaner...i didnt remove any wire or sensor etc..
    there cars(joy,optra,aveo ) are having one hell of a complicated throttle body..

    if you still dont believe i can post a picture of receipt mentioning the bill of 4.5K for reprogramming...
    Its not that I don't believe you, I just think the dealership ripped you off. These are cars which have conventional throttles as far as I am aware (no programming of the throttle itself whatsoever).

    How exactly did they reprogram a conventional wire driven throttle is what I'm wondering. Did you see them plugging the car into a diagnostic system and then doing a learn procedure? What might have happened is that your ECU might have been thrown off by the 'refreshed' throttle body and the timing was retarded as the carbon built up around the body. The dealership probably just reset the ECU and called it reprogramming (this can be reset by yourself with a simple battery removal and rapid brake pedal stomping). Don't trust any dealership too much, whether its Honda, Toyota, Suzuki or anyone else, they're all crooks.

    I verified the procedure done on my car as I was there when the HDS system was plugged in and the reprogramming done in front of me (by the way all Honda took was RS 1000 from me, they do however claim its RS 2000 for 'regular' customers... whatever that means).

    Anyway you could be right and since you've mentioned it here, I suppose Chevy owners can be alerted if they read the thread
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    imformative (Y)
    Honda Boys..Powered by R18!

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    Don't these systems learn and adapt throttle movement / behavior over time?
    Yes they may be rough for the first 50 or so kms after cleaning but they would get better no? Otherwise anyone who would disconnect their battery for whatever work on the car would have to go to the dealership to get the throttle bodies / w/e reprogrammed, no? :s

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    Quote Originally Posted by syncview View Post
    Don't these systems learn and adapt throttle movement / behavior over time?
    Yes they may be rough for the first 50 or so kms after cleaning but they would get better no? Otherwise anyone who would disconnect their battery for whatever work on the car would have to go to the dealership to get the throttle bodies / w/e reprogrammed, no? :s
    Exactly.

    However the system never goes back to normal, I suffered this issue over 1,000 kms and finally gave up and went to Honda. Also disconnecting the battery only resets the immediate ECU map and does nothing to the long term learning and the DBW system's learning at all. Tried all the basic resets I could myself before I went to Honda.

    So again, I'll iterate, no matter how many KMs you drive the car (after cleaning), the relearn is ineffective and needs to be done over the HDS.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cylestyne View Post
    Its not that I don't believe you, I just think the dealership ripped you off. These are cars which have conventional throttles as far as I am aware (no programming of the throttle itself whatsoever).

    How exactly did they reprogram a conventional wire driven throttle is what I'm wondering. Did you see them plugging the car into a diagnostic system and then doing a learn procedure? What might have happened is that your ECU might have been thrown off by the 'refreshed' throttle body and the timing was retarded as the carbon built up around the body. The dealership probably just reset the ECU and called it reprogramming (this can be reset by yourself with a simple battery removal and rapid brake pedal stomping). Don't trust any dealership too much, whether its Honda, Toyota, Suzuki or anyone else, they're all crooks.

    I verified the procedure done on my car as I was there when the HDS system was plugged in and the reprogramming done in front of me (by the way all Honda took was RS 1000 from me, they do however claim its RS 2000 for 'regular' customers... whatever that means).

    Anyway you could be right and since you've mentioned it here, I suppose Chevy owners can be alerted if they read the thread
    yes i saw the whole scene with my eyes they noted the chassis # of my car take that # to their office then come back with the diagnose tool and plugged that in the car
    I also had a video of the procedure like they plunging in the diagnose tool and then reprogramming the ecu.

    i tried to reset the ecu with dozens of different methods 1000's of time but nothing, this is bu!!shittin chevy's technology

    actually on the throttle bodies of these cars there is NO idle valve present to control the idle rpm of the car, this controlling is done buy the motorised throttle plate itself....there are several small gears in the throttle body which control the motion of throttle plate, but as soon i cleaned the the gunk with spray the timing of those gears were disturbed and the ONLY way to calibrate their timing was reprogramming...(this was what they told me)
    .........Tomorrow Never Comes Until Its Too Late........
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    Thankfully, my mechanic is a kind of guy who knew this BEFORE the new city was launched and he was well prepared for that
    He uses the original Honda diagnostic system to tune stuff like this...
    When the power of love exceeds the love for power, the world will finally know peace=Every man is guilty of all the good he didn't do

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharo53 View Post
    yes i saw the whole scene with my eyes they noted the chassis # of my car take that # to their office then come back with the diagnose tool and plugged that in the car
    I also had a video of the procedure like they plunging in the diagnose tool and then reprogramming the ecu.

    i tried to reset the ecu with dozens of different methods 1000's of time but nothing, this is bu!!shittin chevy's technology

    actually on the throttle bodies of these cars there is NO idle valve present to control the idle rpm of the car, this controlling is done buy the motorised throttle plate itself....there are several small gears in the throttle body which control the motion of throttle plate, but as soon i cleaned the the gunk with spray the timing of those gears were disturbed and the ONLY way to calibrate their timing was reprogramming...(this was what they told me)
    Good information, its an electronically controlled throttle in that case.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahmadbila View Post
    Thankfully, my mechanic is a kind of guy who knew this BEFORE the new city was launched and he was well prepared for that
    He uses the original Honda diagnostic system to tune stuff like this...
    It was a no-brainer to invest in HDS since the Civic already implemented what the City would have 2 years down the road. Too bad we lack educated mechanics like this, which is the real reason why most used cars are badly maintained (all ustads have done a thorough 'hand-cleaning' on these new cars).

    I would still stick to sending the car to the dealership for these things (especially since they get months of training for the new cars that launch).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cylestyne View Post
    Good information, its an electronically controlled throttle in that case.
    yes its a dual type throttle
    connected with the accelerator wire + motorised to control idle RPMs and to prevent engine from stalling on heavy load like auto choke system do...
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    whenever cleaning the throttle body make sure the battery is completely disconnected
    people who use Highbeams.. once day would suffer too bigtime. People who drive slow on fast lanes, remember one day a vehicle carryin ur son, dad might get late to hospital coz people like u. underaged driving will land u in bigtime trouble one day or the other.. And the Blue indication light on ur speedometer denotes "High Beams"

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    How do you 'completely disconnect' a battery?

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    That was nice information!

    Asher Bhai, haven't seen you on Pakwheels lately. Where'd you been?
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