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Thread: Honda Civic 2013: Pakistan launch

  1. #1
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    Default Honda Civic 2013: Pakistan launch

    Good news for all Honda Civic fans in Pakistan that Honda has now confirmed its availability of the New Civic between October and November this Year (2012). The production of current model has been stopped ( CONFIRMED NEWS ). Honda Atlas is now in the process of clearing stock.There is no exact word on its price, but it is estimated that it will fall between 21 lac and 23 lac depending on the model.

    INSHALLAH CIVIC IS ABOUT TO BE LAUNCHED IN MOST LIKELY SEPTEMBER....maybe its booking starts prior to the official launch but thts unconfirmed....

    buckle up every1 the wait is almost over inshALLAH.....







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    Quote Originally Posted by autophile View Post
    You have to replace transmission fluid in a manual transmission after 40,000 kilometers also
    Mohtaram autophile Sahib,
    Even if you don't it won't hurt your manual transmission, an extravaganza you can't play with an automatic. In the manual you have simple gears and in an automatic you have sun and satellite gears which is a very complicated system. In a Mechanical Engineering class, all elements of Physics are employed when studying automatic transmission, fluid dynamics, thermodynamics and what not.

    Just to give you an example, I've changed the fluid of my manual transmission of one of my cars just twice in 30 years and that too was a top-up and not a true change and my car has clocked 325000 km. I don't do that with my automatics as I change the fluids of my automatic cars periodically.

    The manual gears in a manual transmission is like those in your racing bicycle. You must have seen kids getting the bicycle gears lubed with grease and even if you don't do it, it won't matter.

    In my manual Mercedes 190D, I've not changed the transmission fluid for 54 years and the gears work like a silky smooth breeze.

    Yes the manual speaks differently but I'm talking about the relative care one has to take of the respective transmissions. Even if your manual transmission fluid leaks fully, it won't hurt it, your automatic won't even work let alone escape being getting fried should such a scenario occur with it (an automatic).

    The torque in an automatic is transmitted from the flywheel to the transmission through automatic transmission fluid and in a manual it's done through the clutch and the pressure plate, i.e. physically and not through fluid. You do need fluid in an automatic but you don't need it in a manual. That's the basic concept one needs to understand when it comes to transmissions.

    No offence please.

    Regards.



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    Quote Originally Posted by supereagle View Post
    Mohtaram AbubakarSIddiqi Sahib,
    It depends on a couple of factors whether you should go for a manual or an automatic. Here they are:

    1. Are you used to a manual? Do you know how to drive a manual?

    2. Are you comfortable with manual?

    If the answer to the above is 'yes' then go for a manual.

    If I were you, I would go for a manual. Here is why:

    1. You have more control over the vehicle with a manual transmission as compared to an automatic because in the former (manual) you do the shifting yourself.

    2. Manual is sportier because you have more power within your hands. It gives you an impression of being Ayrton Senna!

    3. Manual transmission consumes less fuel as compared to an automatic because engine's power loss is less in a clutch based system (manual) as compared to a torque converter based system (automatic).

    4. Less maintenance is required for a manual transmission and you need periodic maintenance in an automatic with transmission fluid changes at around every 30,000 miles. You can drive a manual with no such fluid changes for virtually hundreds of thousands of miles.

    5. Manual transmission is more durable as it is far less complex compared to an automatic. Simpler things with simpler mechanisms last longer. Imagine a simple strong lever, which is a simple machine, lasting forever if properly looked after as compared to a Boeing 787's Rolls Royce Trent 1000 jet engine, for a lever is a simple machine compared to a jet engine (which is a highly complex machine).

    Here are the advantages of an automatic:

    1. It is user friendly. Once you put into 'D', you forget moving you hands. For me, automatic is for lazy people, no offence to them please.

    2. If you drive in traffic jams, manual will give you a lot of hassle as you will have to move your foot on the clutch and the gear-lever very often.

    Talking about any locally assembled car, I don't see any point going for an automatic for they are small cars. If you go for a Mercedes S550, you don't go for a manual but an automatic because for me, automatic is a luxury and not a necessity. If you go for a luxury car, go for another luxury with it; an automatic transmission. The bigger the car, the better it is if you go for an automatic. The smaller the car, the better if you stick to a manual.

    Here is the Physics of fuel consumption when comparing a manual and an automatic: Manual transmission gives you a better fuel economy than an automatic one for in the latter (automatic) there are power losses in the lower rpm range. In the higher rpm the damping lockup clutch kicks in to reduce power losses in the torque converter of the automatic transmission giving you a 100% contact between the engine and the transmission which is always a 100% contact in a manual regardless of what rpm the engine is at, leading to no relative power loss (in a manual). The pressure plate-clutch based transmission system (manual) is lot more efficient than a torque converter based (automatic) one; this is the reason automatics give you a poor fuel economy than manuals.

    Specifically speaking about a Honda Civic, go for an automatic because it gives your a little more luxury than a manual one. For me luxury starts with a C Class or E Class Merc in the 1.8 bracket and Honda is there but after all it's a locally made car and there is less resale of a manual Civic too as compared to an automatic.

    If you want to go for a manual for the sake of a manual then you can go for a Corolla Gli or if you need more power, then you can go for any locally-assembled 1.8; manual Civic or Corolla. Mind you, manual Civic has a lesser resale value as compared to an automatic.

    Regards.




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    Prosmatec Civic in 9th Generation is more fule efficient ( 39 MPG ) than manual ( 36 MPG ).

    PLEASE DON'T SPREAD FALSE INFO !

    @ FOR ALL Auto civic in 9th Generation is wayyy more fuel efficient than manual Civic. Google it yourself ..check stats

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    Quote Originally Posted by AbubakarSIddiqi View Post
    i am planning to buy Civic 2013 but confused btw manual and auto due to claim of some guys that manual gives 15+ km/ltr in city if that is so i would surly go for manual...so kindly civic manual owner plzz put a truthful picture
    Bhai jan don't believe on the heresay. Check internet for the stats. Prosmatec Honda civic is much fuel efficient than manual civic in its latest 9th generation.

    Yes uptil 8th gen it was otherway round as prosmatc use to be heavy on fuel but HONDA turned the tables with the launch of New Civic

    Again for reference

    Civic auto is 39 mpg highway with translates to 16.55 kpl highway

    Civic manual is 36 mpg highway which is approx 15.3 kpl highway

    It is for 9th Gen Civic only

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    Quote Originally Posted by supereagle View Post
    Mohtaram autophile Sahib,
    Even if you don't it won't hurt your manual transmission, an extravaganza you can't play with an automatic. In the manual you have simple gears and in an automatic you have sun and satellite gears which is a very complicated system. In a Mechanical Engineering class, all elements of Physics are employed when studying automatic transmission, fluid dynamics, thermodynamics and what not.

    Just to give you an example, I've changed the fluid of my manual transmission of one of my cars just twice in 30 years and that too was a top-up and not a true change and my car has clocked 325000 km. I don't do that with my automatics as I change the fluids of my automatic cars periodically.

    The manual gears in a manual transmission is like those in your racing bicycle. You must have seen kids getting the bicycle gears lubed with grease and even if you don't do it, it won't matter.

    In my manual Mercedes 190D, I've not changed the transmission fluid for 54 years and the gears work like a silky smooth breeze.

    Yes the manual speaks differently but I'm talking about the relative care one has to take of the respective transmissions. Even if your manual transmission fluid leaks fully, it won't hurt it, your automatic won't even work let alone escape being getting fried should such a scenario occur with it (an automatic).

    The torque in an automatic is transmitted from the flywheel to the transmission through automatic transmission fluid and in a manual it's done through the clutch and the pressure plate, i.e. physically and not through fluid. You do need fluid in an automatic but you don't need it in a manual. That's the basic concept one needs to understand when it comes to transmissions.

    No offence please.

    Regards.



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    Default Someone has made a big fool out of you!

    Quote Originally Posted by umair2203 View Post
    Prosmatec Civic in 9th Generation is more fule efficient ( 39 MPG ) than manual ( 36 MPG ).

    PLEASE DON'T SPREAD FALSE INFO !

    @ FOR ALL Auto civic in 9th Generation is wayyy more fuel efficient than manual Civic. Google it yourself ..check stats

    Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2
    Mohtaram umair2203 Sahib,
    Now I've never come across such an interesting scenario before in my life where an educated person like you deserves lots of sympathies of mine. From your text I can gather that you have some basic education and someone has made a big fool out of you by telling you that an automatic can be more fuel efficient than a manual.

    You are right. The situation can be either of the two:

    1. Someone has made a big fool out of you.

    2. The Honda engineers have messed up with their manual.

    I'm sure it can't be the second one. Whoever has put such an information on google has come up with nonsense. If you google something and it shows up then it doesn't imply that it conforms with Scientific Laws. Google results are not scientific laws.

    Here is what Science says:

    Keep this thing in your mind and this is the law of Science: An automatic CANNOT (and this is a very very very very BIG CANNOT) be more fuel efficient than a manual. This is what Science says and not even Mercedes engineers can change it and you are talking about Honda engineers?

    I really want to help you to find the truth for you deserve sympathy.

    No offence please and regards.


    Quote Originally Posted by umair2203 View Post
    Bhai jan don't believe on the heresay. Check internet for the stats. Prosmatec Honda civic is much fuel efficient than manual civic in its latest 9th generation.

    Yes uptil 8th gen it was otherway round as prosmatc use to be heavy on fuel but HONDA turned the tables with the launch of New Civic

    Again for reference

    Civic auto is 39 mpg highway with translates to 16.55 kpl highway

    Civic manual is 36 mpg highway which is approx 15.3 kpl highway

    It is for 9th Gen Civic only

    Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2
    Here is the second post of yours based on the same misinformation. If someone in Pakistan makes you believe that an automatic is more fuel efficient than a manual then he deserves a medal for being able to make you a fool to such an extent that he can even make you believe that the sun goes around the moon.

    I need your help sir, please tell me who that guy is who has spread the nonsense of an automatic being more fuel efficient than a manual. I will award him the 'medal of honour of making fools.'

    Khuda k wastay koi parhay likhay logoon walee baat karain aur aisee baat na karain k pagal loog bhee hasnain lagain. Had ho gayee hay yar. Kaisay kaisay lateefay parhnay ko miltay hain pakwheels pay: Honda automatic being more fuel efficient than a manual. Ha ha ha ha ha. Lakh baar ha ha ha ha.

    No offence sir and lots of regards.
    "Science is nothing but trained and organised common sense," Thomas Henry Huxley.

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    Quote Originally Posted by supereagle View Post
    Mohtaram umair2203 Sahib,
    Now I've never come across such an interesting scenario before in my life where an educated person like you deserves lots of sympathies of mine. From your text I can gather that you have some basic education and someone has made a big fool out of you by telling you that an automatic can be more fuel efficient than a manual.

    You are right. The situation can be either of the two:

    1. Someone has made a big fool out of you.

    2. The Honda engineers have messed up with their manual.

    I'm sure it can't be the second one. Whoever has put such an information on google has come up with nonsense. If you google something and it shows up then it doesn't imply that it conforms with Scientific Laws. Google results are not scientific laws.

    Here is what Science says:

    Keep this thing in your mind and this is the law of Science: An automatic CANNOT (and this is a very very very very BIG CANNOT) be more fuel efficient than a manual. This is what Science says and not even Mercedes engineers can change it and you are talking about Honda engineers?

    I really want to help you to find the truth for you deserve sympathy.

    No offence please and regards.




    Here is the second post of yours based on the same misinformation. If someone in Pakistan makes you believe that an automatic is more fuel efficient than a manual then he deserves a medal for being able to make you a fool to such an extent that he can even make you believe that the sun goes around the moon.

    I need your help sir, please tell me who that guy is who has spread the nonsense of an automatic being more fuel efficient than a manual. I will award him the 'medal of honour of making fools.'

    Khuda k wastay koi parhay likhay logoon walee baat karain aur aisee baat na karain k pagal loog bhee hasnain lagain. Had ho gayee hay yar. Kaisay kaisay lateefay parhnay ko miltay hain pakwheels pay: Honda automatic being more fuel efficient than a manual. Ha ha ha ha ha. Lakh baar ha ha ha ha.

    No offence sir and lots of regards.
    Ignoring what all you said for a while !

    please see the link > These readings comes from the official office of US Department Environmental Protection Agency which release official fuel efficiency ratings for all vehicles released in US. If you are not satisfied with this august office than I will show you official Honda Civic Fuel efficiency ratings from other countries which release Fuel efficiency ratings officially and after that I will show you some examples of automatic transmissions being more fuel efficient than manuals ( not just with comments ) with authentic references

    The link clearly states manual to be 36 MPG and automatic is 39 MPG highway.

    The Gov in the domain name indicate it is a government site.



    https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Powe...ic&srchtyp=ymm



    Seeing your displayed age , if it is correct, I was not expecting such immature comments " Paglon Wali Baatein" , "Pagal Hansne Lgen" , " kese log milte hein" , calling me fool and at the end no offence !!

    but as I said ignoring what all you said for while !
    @Vajih102 please hop in and do the needful moderation if you feel so
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    Quote Originally Posted by supereagle View Post
    Mohtaram umair2203 Sahib,
    Now I've never come across such an interesting scenario before in my life where an educated person like you deserves lots of sympathies of mine. From your text I can gather that you have some basic education and someone has made a big fool out of you by telling you that an automatic can be more fuel efficient than a manual.

    You are right. The situation can be either of the two:

    1. Someone has made a big fool out of you.

    2. The Honda engineers have messed up with their manual.

    I'm sure it can't be the second one. Whoever has put such an information on google has come up with nonsense. If you google something and it shows up then it doesn't imply that it conforms with Scientific Laws. Google results are not scientific laws.

    Here is what Science says:

    Keep this thing in your mind and this is the law of Science: An automatic CANNOT (and this is a very very very very BIG CANNOT) be more fuel efficient than a manual. This is what Science says and not even Mercedes engineers can change it and you are talking about Honda engineers?

    I really want to help you to find the truth for you deserve sympathy.

    No offence please and regards.




    Here is the second post of yours based on the same misinformation. If someone in Pakistan makes you believe that an automatic is more fuel efficient than a manual then he deserves a medal for being able to make you a fool to such an extent that he can even make you believe that the sun goes around the moon.

    I need your help sir, please tell me who that guy is who has spread the nonsense of an automatic being more fuel efficient than a manual. I will award him the 'medal of honour of making fools.'

    Khuda k wastay koi parhay likhay logoon walee baat karain aur aisee baat na karain k pagal loog bhee hasnain lagain. Had ho gayee hay yar. Kaisay kaisay lateefay parhnay ko miltay hain pakwheels pay: Honda automatic being more fuel efficient than a manual. Ha ha ha ha ha. Lakh baar ha ha ha ha.

    No offence sir and lots of regards.
    which science u have studied bro?? i hope this helps

    it is just a Myth that Cars with manual transmissions always get better fuel economy than cars with automatics.
    In the past it was pretty much a given that vehicles with manual transmissions would be more fuel-efficient than their automatic counterparts. But as automatics become more advanced and gain additional gears, they are often now overtaking manuals in terms of fuel economy.

    http://www.edmunds.com/fuel-economy/...ck-shifts.html



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    Default Honda Civic 2013: Pakistan launch

    edited
    Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply!

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    Some of the examples of automatics being more fuel efficient than manuals

    1. 2014 Ford Focus

    2. 2014 Nissan Versa. Manual is 30 MPG while automatic is 35 MPG

    Details are given on following article of edmunds which again is the renowned website. If people want I can reference you to EPA US Gov website and also can cross reference from ratings released by OM and OEMs

    Five Myths About Stick Shifts: Manual vs Automatic Transmissions on Edmunds.com
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    Quote Originally Posted by umair2203 View Post
    Some of the examples of automatics being more fuel efficient than manuals

    1. 2014 Ford Focus

    2. 2014 Nissan Versa. Manual is 30 MPG while automatic is 35 MPG

    Details are given on following article of edmunds which again is the renowned website. If people want I can reference you to EPA US Gov website and also can cross reference from ratings released by OM and OEMs

    Five Myths About Stick Shifts: Manual vs Automatic Transmissions on Edmunds.com
    Corolla LE Eco in US is also more fuel efficient than manual.It is with CVTI
    Aunda Fan

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    after newtons laws here come @supereagle laws of car science


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    Autos are killing manuals now a days. They are getting more advanced day by day and offering more gears(6,7,8) which decrease RPM's.
    I honestly believe 9th gen Civic to be more fuel efficient than the manual version because of all the technology involved now a days.

    Sadly, I don't own one, InshAllah soon. I can get 15kmpl in city with a Swift Manual if i drive slowly, with hypermiling.... more than that
    Stop arguing and enjoy your rides!

    Supereagle bhai/uncle, I really love the way you explain things, but calling X person stupid and jaahil is actions of an immature person.
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    Quote Originally Posted by faiz.aslam.121 View Post

    Supereagle bhai/uncle, I really love the way you explain things, but calling X person stupid and jaahil is actions of an immature person.
    I also respected the guy and was a silent observer of his threads. I actually wanted to have healthy conversation by stating the facts and proving my point but when I saw his comments like "Pagal" "Jaahil" I didn't want to follow up further. I just stated the references proving my point which I now seem is necessary.

    Logic pe argument kro ... I can give as many as 10 official links stating that Honda Civic Automatic is more fuel efficient then manual and another 10 + links of other vehicles where automatic is more fuel efficient. I have provided two links already of US Environmental agency along with EPA.gov site reference just to prove my point

    Here is it again >>

    https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Powe...ic&srchtyp=ymm


    some of my friends have also provided some sources and links sharing some sceneries where automatics are more fuel efficient than manuals

    @RollOnBigMaMa , @aay1870 see comment #2825, #2826 and onwards and share your valuable comments too
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    i dont know how much manual gives KM/L but my auto is giving me 9.5 km/L within city (stop and go route)

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    9th gen manual giving 13.5 -14km/l within city drive in islamabad with normal foot.
    Prosmatec hardly touches 11.5 - 12 km/l on the same route.

    Even my daily runner 8th gen manual which is a well known fuel guzzler does 12.8 on same route.
    From my personal observarion I have come down to conclusion that manuals are more fuel efficient than prosmatec.


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    Manuals can be fuel efficient or worse than automatics..It all depends on the driver. Being active members of this forum and thus hard core car enthusiasts, I'm sure all of us take our cars to the red line. In autos we press on the pedal as hard as we can and in manuals we change gears when we reach the red line. And we can't control ourselves. We're not weed smoking hippie environmentalists (yes, that 'green world' disease is starting to infect our country too) or old men who don't drive above 40 km/hr. Everyone of you is a bad reference for accurate mileage. You want to calculate your mileage, ask your grandfather to drive your car for a few days (my grandfather gets 10.7km/l from his 2005 maual vti - I used to get 7-8 km/l from my manual 2002 vti)

    to conclude... If you're not getting a good mileage from your car you're not a weed smoking environmentalist or an old man, and are a proper hard core car enthusiast with petrol in your veins





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  18. #2837
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    According to spec sheets posted by umair, automatics are more fuel efficient than manuals when we are talking about 9th gen civic. If anyone has issues he/she can happily challenge them on 9th gen Honda forums or provide proper proof which can justify that manuals are more efficient. Please don't use cheap wordings here in a healthy discussion. @omar_575
    Senior citizens Father/Grand father getting good mileage theory doesn't work in my case. Whenever my father drives my manual civic, car literally screams. He usually shift at 4-5k even at red line sometimes :p
    Thus mileage figures drop heavily and same car which gives 12km/l under my foot with hard foot sometimes starts giving 8-9km/l under my father's foot so yeah a lot depends upon driver.


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  19. #2838
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    Quote Originally Posted by omar_575 View Post
    Manuals can be fuel efficient or worse than automatics..It all depends on the driver. Being active members of this forum and thus hard core car enthusiasts, I'm sure all of us take our cars to the red line. In autos we press on the pedal as hard as we can and in manuals we change gears when we reach the red line. And we can't control ourselves. We're not weed smoking hippie environmentalists (yes, that 'green world' disease is starting to infect our country too) or old men who don't drive above 40 km/hr. Everyone of you is a bad reference for accurate mileage. You want to calculate your mileage, ask your grandfather to drive your car for a few days (my grandfather gets 10.7km/l from his 2005 maual vti - I used to get 7-8 km/l from my manual 2002 vti)

    to conclude... If you're not getting a good mileage from your car you're not a weed smoking environmentalist or an old man, and are a proper hard core car enthusiast with petrol in your veins





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    Quote Originally Posted by umair2203 View Post
    I also respected the guy and was a silent observer of his threads. I actually wanted to have healthy conversation by stating the facts and proving my point but when I saw his comments like "Pagal" "Jaahil" I didn't want to follow up further. I just stated the references proving my point which I now seem is necessary.

    Logic pe argument kro ... I can give as many as 10 official links stating that Honda Civic Automatic is more fuel efficient then manual and another 10 + links of other vehicles where automatic is more fuel efficient. I have provided two links already of US Environmental agency along with EPA.gov site reference just to prove my point

    Here is it again >>

    https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Powe...ic&srchtyp=ymm


    some of my friends have also provided some sources and links sharing some sceneries where automatics are more fuel efficient than manuals

    @RollOnBigMaMa , @aay1870 see comment #2825, #2826 and onwards and share your valuable comments too
    @umair2203 - omar has perfectly described the actual logic in his very sentence.

    We had a manual altis and an automatic one - both purchased within a month. Whenever our driver drove the two, he used to get better average on the manual one - cause he didn't rev it and controlled the gear ratio himself where as in the automatic, he got a slightly lower average (less than 0.5 of a difference for the most part).
    However the situation was the complete opposite when I drove them both. In my case manual was giving a lower average than the automatic one, cause again the same reason but a different cause - I used to rev it the limits (the manual one) - changed gears after literally hitting the rpm of 4.9 to 5.2 k. In the automatic one, I couldn't do so - hence better average om the automatic cause the car didn't allow me to rev it more than a limit.
    This theory is especially true for within the city driving.
    I won't compare my two cars' average right now cause they are very different (swift dlx and civic 9th gen). On a side note I am actually seriously contemplating of getting rid of the swift and replacing it a cultus
    But yeah - there you have it.
    Nevertheless, the comments by the other member were completely uncalled for - this kind of name calling is never conducive. Even if he bought that your logic was flawed, he should have said so in an amicable manner instead of resorting to such imbecility. Don't reply to him and don't get dragged into the mess. I hope he doesn't repeat the same with anyone else.

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    Btw @umair2203 - I just read the previous posts between you and that supereagle guy. Why are you arguing with that chap - he's already mentioned that his "laws of automotive fuel averages" is based on two cars, one being 54 years old and one being 30 years old. You think the guy has any idea what an "econ" mode is in the new 9th gen civic? Do you think he would understand if you tell him that with the econ mode on the new civic (prosmatec), the gear ratio gets modified such as to improve the fuel average?
    As the urdu saying goes, "Bandar kya janay adrak ka sawaad" 😊😃

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    Quote Originally Posted by aay1870 View Post
    Btw @umair2203 - I just read the previous posts between you and that supereagle guy. Why are you arguing with that chap - he's already mentioned that his "laws of automotive fuel averages" is based on two cars, one being 54 years old and one being 30 years old. You think the guy has any idea what an "econ" mode is in the new 9th gen civic? Do you think he would understand if you tell him that with the econ mode on the new civic (prosmatec), the gear ratio gets modified such as to improve the fuel average?
    As the urdu saying goes, "Bandar kya janay adrak ka sawaad" 😊😃

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    Ali bhai I was just trying to have a healthy argument which is the essance of this forum but I was wrong of me to get in to argument with that guy

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