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Thread: Radiator building pressure when cold... CIVIC 06 VTi

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    Default Radiator building pressure when cold... CIVIC 06 VTi

    hello guys hope you are doing all fine n enjoying the Holy month of ramadan
    well I'm just a bit concerned as most of the regular visitors of this section must have know that I faced a heatup issue in my civic 2006 a week before almost (https://www.pakwheels.com/forums/eng...needs-done-now) ...well after removing the thermostat valve its been a week my car is doing great Alhumdulillah and the temperature stays on the 45% mark ...since after the heatup I've made a habit to check the water level every day ...My car was reducing like almost a cup of water (50km drive with a.c every day ) every morning when I check the water but no rising of temperature ,the radiator fan was kept on auto and every time when I use to open the radiator cap there was a sound of gas escaping like when you open a bottle of soft drink but yesterday mechanic put the fan on direct as he said since there's no thermostat valve at the moment I should keep the fan direct as water gets hot quickly since its circulating in the engine all the time now and tends to vaporise thus reducing the water level ...now today what I felt was the water level didn't decrease at all and the car took way too long to get to the normal temperate 45% mark even but when this morning I opened the cap the pressure built in it was too much to throw some water out of the radiator ....the engine was off and the car is cold as it was parked for the whole night
    I'm wondering could this be because of the following reasons
    1) Faulty Radiator cap
    2) I usually keep the reservoir next to the radiator full ,could this be because of that, that the water might not be able to get to the reservoir from the radiator and thus creates pressure inside the radiator and when I pump the throttle the water level in the radiator rises and some of the water falls out of the radiator when the cap is open
    3) is there some air in the system
    4) Or the worst case a weak Head gasket

    P.S I know its not advisable to run without a thermostat and a direct fan but Im just wanted to make sure that it was the thermostat valve that went bad and nothing else causing the car to head up ...and as soon as I put the thermostat back I will replace the water with coolant
    the radiator cap which Im using is the oem one that comes from factory 1.1 bar

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    As per previous trend u mnetioned, does water get reduced in resorvior or radiaotor it self ? If the water is geeting reduced in radiator in presence of exessive fluid in resorvior then its clear symptom of fualty radiator cap. If its so then u need to replace radiator cap 1st & check for improvemnt by filling resorvior to the max mark not to the top. Also get the air bleed from cooling system. And if issue resolved immidiately get installed new T Valve & get the FAN operation auto.
    Exploring Machines is my Passion...

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    billa bhai ap ki ustaadi mechanic ko school ka trip karwa day gi instead of checking radiator leakage or water pump & metal pipes corrosion ap nai system ko pora he choppat kar deya valve nikal deya fan direct kar leya ap daykhna sham taak ap k topic mai kitnay loug ap ko chay sabit kardayn gai

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    Quote Originally Posted by billa69 View Post
    hello guys hope you are doing all fine n enjoying the Holy month of ramadan
    well I'm just a bit concerned as most of the regular visitors of this section must have know that I faced a heatup issue in my civic 2006 a week before almost (https://www.pakwheels.com/forums/eng...needs-done-now) ...well after removing the thermostat valve its been a week my car is doing great Alhumdulillah and the temperature stays on the 45% mark ...since after the heatup I've made a habit to check the water level every day ...My car was reducing like almost a cup of water (50km drive with a.c every day ) every morning when I check the water but no rising of temperature ,the radiator fan was kept on auto and every time when I use to open the radiator cap there was a sound of gas escaping like when you open a bottle of soft drink but yesterday mechanic put the fan on direct as he said since there's no thermostat valve at the moment I should keep the fan direct as water gets hot quickly since its circulating in the engine all the time now and tends to vaporise thus reducing the water level ...now today what I felt was the water level didn't decrease at all and the car took way too long to get to the normal temperate 45% mark even but when this morning I opened the cap the pressure built in it was too much to throw some water out of the radiator ....the engine was off and the car is cold as it was parked for the whole night
    I'm wondering could this be because of the following reasons
    1) Faulty Radiator cap
    2) I usually keep the reservoir next to the radiator full ,could this be because of that, that the water might not be able to get to the reservoir from the radiator and thus creates pressure inside the radiator and when I pump the throttle the water level in the radiator rises and some of the water falls out of the radiator when the cap is open
    3) is there some air in the system
    4) Or the worst case a weak Head gasket

    P.S I know its not advisable to run without a thermostat and a direct fan but Im just wanted to make sure that it was the thermostat valve that went bad and nothing else causing the car to head up ...and as soon as I put the thermostat back I will replace the water with coolant
    the radiator cap which Im using is the oem one that comes from factory 1.1 bar
    If thermostat is bad replacing a new one will not cost you more then Rs. 500 why removing it all together. the reservoir have empty & full mark never over fill it.

    when u have access to the forum and been reading you should have done some stepwise diagnostic with patience
    - www.crackwheels.com - A skilled Dictator is much more beneficial to Country......than a Democracy of Ignorant people

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    firstly your mechanic is a weed smoker - his excellent prognosis of because Tstat valve is removed, water circulates all the time and evaporates, THIS ALONE is excellent material to win the darwin award of "interbreeding decays IQ levels" - The system is closed evaporation can only occur when there is air. Do you or he think that water can evaporate into vacuum??

    anyway - point 2, the sound you hear in the morning when you open the cap is not pressure its vacuum in the system being filled with air. There will always be a little vacuum in the system as the vacuum release valve has a spring on it and requires some force to work. The 50ml you see as empty is probably some old hosepipe expanding from the vacuum being removed.

    The reservior you see is an expansion tank, it collects the "expanded" coolant from the system via the radiator cap - the 1.1 bar you see is the pressure rating of the system, anything above 1.1 bar will be expelled to the expansion tank. When the system cools down it will suck it back through the little "vacuum hat" in the middle of the cap (the little valve all radiator repair guys in Pakistan assume is the only valve that works. WRONG - the thick spring that compresses when you close the cap is what sets the 1.1 bar pressure point, the vacuum hat is pulled inwards when the coolant contracts back and hence coolant is sucked back into the system.

    If there is any sort of tiny leak in the expansion tank pipe till the bottom of the expansion tank then instead of the system sucking water back it will suck air - just like you cannot drink coke from a straw if there was a hole in the side of the straw exposed outside of your mouth and above the liquid.
    ZRS - Zulfiqar Racing Systems ..... - professionals at work - at crackwheels.com

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    see both said k ap CHAY hain heheheh bhai ghussa nahi

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    @all
    thankyou for the advices
    the thing is the car needs a 1-1.5 cup of water per 40km drive and if I dont check the water the temperature starts to rise
    I consulted a different mechanic today and he said reducing water level is a clear symptom of a weak head gasket as theres no leaks in the radiator or the hosepipes or the water pump ...I closely inspected today but couldnt find any water falling
    anyways the new mechanic told me since the old mechanic didnt face the head its taking air which I could see in the radiator water aswell in forms of small bubbles appearing after dealy ....the bottom line is the new mechanic told me to get the head gasket redone with a FACED HEAD ALONG WITH THE FACED BLOCK ...the thing Im worried of is it would require the whole engine to be taken out coz this time he says the block needs to be faced aswell
    @xulfiqar and other experts advice me is he correct ??
    although my car never rose the temperate to full it just climbed a bit over the mid mark and that too only once so will this require HEAD and BLOCK FACING :s

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    First check the face of the head for straightness with a straight edge, if its good then no need, btw Honda does not recommend to face the block, as if its bent then the block requires replacement as the crank will not be running true and cylinder wear will increase 200%. When you buy a gasket but the original Honda part no. metal head gasket, not the fibre imitation that is made locally in Pakistan.

    If your block is corroded from the top side and there is very little aluminium left around the cylinder liners - you need to change the block, it can never seal even with a new gasket.

    Before anything - you need to make a testing rig with a radiator cap and apply 1.1 bar pressure to the system and check for leaks everywhere - if pressure drops you have a leak and that leak is what is causing your system to fill itself with air instead of the expanded water/coolant and causing overheating. Without proper diagnosis you are just shooting in the dark.
    ZRS - Zulfiqar Racing Systems ..... - professionals at work - at crackwheels.com

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    @ xulifar bhaithankyou so much ...I will definately share the pictures of the open head and block with you tomorrow ...but do you really think the block would be bent ? its was the first time mechanic touched my engine last month and the car got heat up just once for hardly some seconds and the temperature needle rose to a but over half and came back to half when I turned off the a.c as for the head is concerned when the mechanic opened the head for valve replacement it was just like brand new head just a screw was stuck in one valve which was replaced and the lathe machine wala repaired the valve seat .... the mechanic put it back again but what most of the people are saying is the head must be faced when ever if is opened ,,,the gasket which was used before was Honda part no. metal head gasket

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    @zulfiqar
    plz check this thread
    https://www.pakwheels.com/forums/whe...96-brake-issue
    thanks
    -

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    sir please elaborate on the test you're telling about , how do I put 1.1 bar pressure on the system secondly I do see some bubbles popping up in the radiator after 3-4 seconds delay each on which my mechainc said its taking air my engine is 46000kms driven and it was the first time it started to decrease the water level after the mechanic did the valve job ...before that I never use to bother about the water level ....till the last month it was filled with the coolant the came from Honda company and the level was same as it was 6 years ago when I took it from Honda showroom

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    Quote Originally Posted by billa69 View Post
    @ xulifar bhaithankyou so much ...I will definately share the pictures of the open head and block with you tomorrow ...but do you really think the block would be bent ? its was the first time mechanic touched my engine last month and the car got heat up just once for hardly some seconds and the temperature needle rose to a but over half and came back to half when I turned off the a.c as for the head is concerned when the mechanic opened the head for valve replacement it was just like brand new head just a screw was stuck in one valve which was replaced and the lathe machine wala repaired the valve seat .... the mechanic put it back again but what most of the people are saying is the head must be faced when ever if is opened ,,,the gasket which was used before was Honda part no. metal head gasket
    90% of cases do not have a bent block, and whoever told you that the head should always be faced is trying to steal some money, the head should only be faced it its warped and even then its only allowed a little. As an example lets say a head is removed about 20 times in an engine's life - by that rationale we should not have any combustion chamber left (about 20:1 CR) and should be using a timing belt 5 teeth shorter, along with shorter head bolts too.

    As I always say - measure twice cut once, most probably the measuring will show that you dont need a head face job at all.
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    Need Honda new bolts for replacing head gasket?Get a manual repair of your car and told to the mechanic what to do how to do.Ask Xulfiqar before do anything.I have personaly bad experience with mechanics.

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    @angel
    yup plz tell me where to get it from and what about head studs ?? do I need to replace them too if I go to change the head gasket ?

    WHAT I HAVE CONCLUDED NOW IS THE CAR DOESN'T GET HEATUP ...IT ONLY REDUCES THE WATER LEVEL FROM THE RADIATOR AND WHEN THE WATER LEVEL IS REDUCED TO A CERTAIN LEVEL THE TEMPERATURE STARTS TO RISE WHICH I HAVEN'T ALLOWED IT TO HAPPEN TILL NOW AS I TOP UP THE RADIATOR EVERY DAY,
    THE THING IM CONCERNED WITH IS WHEN EVER I OPEN THE RADIATOR CAP EVERY MORNING WHEN THE CAR IS COLD AND THE ENGINE IS NOT STARTED THE WATER FROM THE RADIATOR ERUPTS WITH TOO MUCH PRESSURE CAUSING APPROXIMATELY HALF A GLASS OF WATER TO DRAIN , AND WHEN I START THE CAR TO TOPUP THE RADIATOR , I SEE SMALL BUBBLES CREPING UP TO THE RADIATOR TOP WHILE FILLING THE WATER

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    is this happening due to a faulty radiator cap or the car is taking air from some where which is causing bubbles in the radiator and those bubbles are resulting in form of pressure
    I have taken off the thermostat valve and the fan is still direct ...

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    before opening the cap the next morning check and feel whether the hose pipes to the radiator are hard with pressure, if they are then you have a problem, remove cap to lose pressure, replace cap and start engine, after 1 minute remove cap - if you have pressure you have a head gasket leak.

    To apply 1.1 bar pressure - buy a junk radiator cap drill it out on the top to accept some sort of pipe fitting, you can also use a tubeless tire valve, put on cap and apply air pressure, you should have a gauge too - if pressure drops you have a leak. Now find it.
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    Excellent advise by Xulfiqar bhai. You need to get rid of the mechanic!!!

    On a separate note, change all rubber hoses and inspect the metal one underneath the engine before you go about the change.

    Put the thermostat back in and engage the radiator fan switch as well. The engine should be running at operating temperature. If there is air in the system from the head and you want to delay the treatment, remove the pin from the thermostat valve, which will allow air to move about until you fix the issue with the head.

    Remember that there is an order and torque with which the head bolts need to be tightened. Use a torque wrench.
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    where can I find the metal one plz help me locate it
    yea I will definitely check for the leakage and but I highly doubt its headgasket leak

    the mechanic did use torque wrench to tighten the head studs in front of me ...first he set the pressure of torque wrench on 55psi and then re tightened it using 60psi

    plz suggest me which head gasket to use , the mechanic told me to get the head and block faced and he would be using a double gasket made of fibre although this time I'm not buying his *****

    any suggestions for a good educated mechanic in karachi please?

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    can you tell me the order in which the head bolts need to be tightened ?

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    torque is measured in Nm (metric) or lb/ft (imperial) - psi = pressure. - torque is not pressure. - Do not try to face the block - you will completely ruin the engine, you might even get piston protusion. using a fiber gasket will be bad news too. - Find a new mechanic and inspect the engine properly and thoroughly. It might also be a crack in the head somewhere.
    ZRS - Zulfiqar Racing Systems ..... - professionals at work - at crackwheels.com

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