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Thread: Honda F20B DOHC Compression Test

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    Default Honda F20B DOHC Compression Test

    Me and my brother have bought Honda F20B to swap into EK Civic, the readings we got are Cyl 1: 235 Cyl 2: 225 Cyl 3: 235 Cyl 4: 225
    Are these readings good? It is with T2T4 transmission. @capsat @Xulfiqar
    Actually we had Civic Ek which had D16 in it which was driven about 300k km but it overheated and block cracked so we threw out the D16 and bought F20B. Will swap it in till the car gets ready from body shop.

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    Quote Originally Posted by immad100 View Post
    Nothing wrong as such mate, its less torquey, produce lesser than H22 (not equal as h22's does) H22's got better aftermarket support imo, T2T4 close ratio is a good trans you mean? pretty wrong there, all H,F trans are worth dumping into trash as they're all lousy. on my H22 allmotor (on a typeS motor) i had M2S4 trans with phantomgrip (aftermarket) and i had been running totally custom gearing, i had straight cut close ratio 3rd and 4th and above all i had 4.7 FD (GearX) after all that i had been able to race some seriously fast cars (evo's etc) or else the car was **** slow. i know, definition of being ''FAST'' here is different as per me because when stock motor runners swap these dohc motors they feel ''go baby go effect'' for sure, for them these F20b's float the boat pretty well but when you're ''into it'' seriously, you're supposed to see the pro's and con's deeply. @b18c, well those B's got a very well flowing head design which has no match with these H's and F's. @reliability, H22's are equally reliable, and yes H22's can be rebuilt if one knows ''how to do it all'' if you want to keep it all stock, f20's are good, if you want to see tracks often h22 gets my vote hands down (even better than h23's just because of better revving capabilities).
    The F20B is less common, so you can be "different"... however, it looks like an H22A to most people, and to people that know nothing about these cars. The F20B has a higher redline, so you get the fun of revving it to the moon.It ONLY comes in OBD2... therefore, you will need either a full OBD2 conversion to your car (not happening), a fully tuned ECU, or an H22's P13 (which won't run it properly, but good enough not to damage it.) The OBD2 swaps are a little more complicated than the OBD1 H22A swaps as well. Not bad, but an extra step or two. It shares many things in common with the H22A, so some parts are easy to find. The F20B comes in two varieties... a 200hp manual version, and a 180hp automatic version. You really can't tell them apart (I believe the difference is in the cams... the manual version has H22A Type S cams, and the auto version has regular H22A cams.) So you'll have to trust whatever importer you buy from, or risk getting the lower powered one. Honestly, performance-wise they're very VERY similar. The H22A is more well-rounded and more supported.

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    @ahmedraja1996

    Please answer the following question of interest:

    1. How you did the compression test?

    2.Can you explain the procedure for testing the compression values before buying the engine?

    3.Which instrument are you using for doing compression test?
    Engineer + Car's Passion = Enthusiastic Personality.

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    Quote Originally Posted by galant1 View Post
    @ahmedraja1996

    Please answer the following question of interest:

    1. How you did the compression test?

    2.Can you explain the procedure for testing the compression values before buying the engine?

    3.Which instrument are you using for doing compression test?
    I bought Innova Compression Tester kit from US it is 7 piece kit and i bought it for $40. You can google how to do compression test.

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    Quote Originally Posted by uiv View Post
    I do agree with what you said, but only for a track, or serious business car. For a daily driven, A to B, fun to drive vehicle- these dohc vtecs with their respective trans are just fine. That's why I said to the OP, in my earlier post, that they ARE infact daily driven motors.

    And again, about your definition of fast, I do think the same. These motors are much over hyped by Honda boys all over the world. But when you consider Pakistan; with all our 660cc JDMs and D15B 95 Civic sports cars and ultimate hypercar 'Reborn'... it's not hard to think why a dohc vtec driver must feel like a fighter pilot.

    About Hs' reliability, IMO H tend to have a spun bearing, bent/broken rod, shot rings, valve float etc more than F20b... or it could be just me. And yes Hs can very well be rebuilt, but getting FRM sleeves won't be much fun in Pakistan.
    About H23, people build and rev them to 8500 rpms with no problems. Above that even H22 would suffer. But yes, H22 may rev better coz of shorter stroke- plus bluetop doesn't have oil squirters either
    .
    h23's reving 8.5k arent making power uptil there at all, and they dont rev it 8.5k all day long, on the other hand h22's arent as risky as 23's are on such revving range. broken rods? spun bearings? the question has the answer itself, i had been running bone stock h22's block with stock pistons and rods and stock bearings till 275whp on a turbo'd setup, stock rods are good till 300ish whp mate.
    ''Peace is an unstable equilibrium,that can only be preserved by acknowledged supremacy and...equal power.'' ''We give up the fort when there is not a man left to defend it.''

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    Quote Originally Posted by ahmedraja1996 View Post
    The F20B is less common, so you can be "different"... however, it looks like an H22A to most people, and to people that know nothing about these cars. The F20B has a higher redline, so you get the fun of revving it to the moon.It ONLY comes in OBD2... therefore, you will need either a full OBD2 conversion to your car (not happening), a fully tuned ECU, or an H22's P13 (which won't run it properly, but good enough not to damage it.) The OBD2 swaps are a little more complicated than the OBD1 H22A swaps as well. Not bad, but an extra step or two. It shares many things in common with the H22A, so some parts are easy to find. The F20B comes in two varieties... a 200hp manual version, and a 180hp automatic version. You really can't tell them apart (I believe the difference is in the cams... the manual version has H22A Type S cams, and the auto version has regular H22A cams.) So you'll have to trust whatever importer you buy from, or risk getting the lower powered one. Honestly, performance-wise they're very VERY similar. The H22A is more well-rounded and more supported.
    Lol,you read CB7tuner.com alot i guess (above paragraph is the copy of deevergote if i remember correctly) i appreciate the info you tried to convey though ive been through this practically ages ago.
    see, f20b's got higher redline? i agree they rev quicker but H22's rev all the way till 7.8k (obd2 p5m). i had my setup on OBD2 aswell.i had been running all the way till 8.6k all day long over stock bearings.
    again i'd say, if you want fun, f20b's are good as i said in first post, if you want the power to compete then they aren't your cup of tea imo.
    yes f20b manual has P5P cams, and they can be easily identified if you really know how they look like.
    pro's of f20b's are: 1)quicker rev. 2)iron sleeves.
    con's of f20b's are: 1)less torquey 3)lower potential (because of lower disp, lesser aftermarket support etc)

    cons of H22: 1)FRM sleeves. (for that you can get high comp frm friendly pistons or frm friendly low comp pistons for turbo application)
    pros of h22:1) torquemonster 2)bone stock shortblock can be taken all the way till 250whp (N.A) (with just a built head) and 350whp turbo, 3)you can make a poor man's stroker motor 4)potential is way much more than f20b's.

    see, f20b's were introduced when honda had no <2L motor to compete, they destroked H22's, provided better sleeves, slapped in typeS cams and gave you the best they could, so f20b's were already maxed out right out of the box.
    see records, nobody even bothers to run F20b's out there on drag tracks, all they got is H2B stroked motors.
    Though, for a daily driven fun car,f20b is good, h22 would meet the purpose too without any flaw.
    ''Peace is an unstable equilibrium,that can only be preserved by acknowledged supremacy and...equal power.'' ''We give up the fort when there is not a man left to defend it.''

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    Come On Man..Give This Guy A GO...Let Him Do What He Want's.....At The End Of The Day.......Its All About Priorities......!!!

    There Are So Many F20B's Running Here Also Quiet Peacefully...And Surely A Good Motor With Strong Compressions Always Over Beaten Over High Cost Motor .....H22A In MINT Is Not A Cheap Find Either
    TOYOTA Sprinter 86- AE80 DOHC 20v'D TOYOTA Corolla 98- AE101 4AFE 16v

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    Quote Originally Posted by SER_GTR View Post
    Come On Man..Give This Guy A GO...Let Him Do What He Want's.....At The End Of The Day.......Its All About Priorities......!!!

    There Are So Many F20B's Running Here Also Quiet Peacefully...And Surely A Good Motor With Strong Compressions Always Over Beaten Over High Cost Motor .....H22A In MINT Is Not A Cheap Find Either
    lol i dunno why everyone is taking my opinion kinda offensive, i said earlier f20b's are good daily motors, just had an argument over potential and power stuff later on with uiv, i wish goodluck to the OP for his particular project
    ''Peace is an unstable equilibrium,that can only be preserved by acknowledged supremacy and...equal power.'' ''We give up the fort when there is not a man left to defend it.''

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    Quote Originally Posted by immad100 View Post
    Lol,you read CB7tuner.com alot i guess (above paragraph is the copy of deevergote if i remember correctly) i appreciate the info you tried to convey though ive been through this practically ages ago.
    see, f20b's got higher redline? i agree they rev quicker but H22's rev all the way till 7.8k (obd2 p5m). i had my setup on OBD2 aswell.i had been running all the way till 8.6k all day long over stock bearings.
    again i'd say, if you want fun, f20b's are good as i said in first post, if you want the power to compete then they aren't your cup of tea imo.
    yes f20b manual has P5P cams, and they can be easily identified if you really know how they look like.
    pro's of f20b's are: 1)quicker rev. 2)iron sleeves.
    con's of f20b's are: 1)less torquey 3)lower potential (because of lower disp, lesser aftermarket support etc)

    cons of H22: 1)FRM sleeves. (for that you can get high comp frm friendly pistons or frm friendly low comp pistons for turbo application)
    pros of h22:1) torquemonster 2)bone stock shortblock can be taken all the way till 250whp (N.A) (with just a built head) and 350whp turbo, 3)you can make a poor man's stroker motor 4)potential is way much more than f20b's.

    see, f20b's were introduced when honda had no <2L motor to compete, they destroked H22's, provided better sleeves, slapped in typeS cams and gave you the best they could, so f20b's were already maxed out right out of the box.
    see records, nobody even bothers to run F20b's out there on drag tracks, all they got is H2B stroked motors.
    Though, for a daily driven fun car,f20b is good, h22 would meet the purpose too without any flaw.
    obv hahaha...!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ahmedraja1996 View Post
    obv hahaha...!!
    hahaha, best of luck
    ''Peace is an unstable equilibrium,that can only be preserved by acknowledged supremacy and...equal power.'' ''We give up the fort when there is not a man left to defend it.''

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    Quote Originally Posted by immad100 View Post
    Lol,you read CB7tuner.com alot i guess (above paragraph is the copy of deevergote if i remember correctly) i appreciate the info you tried to convey though ive been through this practically ages ago.
    see, f20b's got higher redline? i agree they rev quicker but H22's rev all the way till 7.8k (obd2 p5m). i had my setup on OBD2 aswell.i had been running all the way till 8.6k all day long over stock bearings.
    again i'd say, if you want fun, f20b's are good as i said in first post, if you want the power to compete then they aren't your cup of tea imo.
    yes f20b manual has P5P cams, and they can be easily identified if you really know how they look like.
    pro's of f20b's are: 1)quicker rev. 2)iron sleeves.
    con's of f20b's are: 1)less torquey 3)lower potential (because of lower disp, lesser aftermarket support etc)

    cons of H22: 1)FRM sleeves. (for that you can get high comp frm friendly pistons or frm friendly low comp pistons for turbo application)
    pros of h22:1) torquemonster 2)bone stock shortblock can be taken all the way till 250whp (N.A) (with just a built head) and 350whp turbo, 3)you can make a poor man's stroker motor 4)potential is way much more than f20b's.

    see, f20b's were introduced when honda had no <2L motor to compete, they destroked H22's, provided better sleeves, slapped in typeS cams and gave you the best they could, so f20b's were already maxed out right out of the box.
    see records, nobody even bothers to run F20b's out there on drag tracks, all they got is H2B stroked motors.
    Though, for a daily driven fun car,f20b is good, h22 would meet the purpose too without any flaw.

    yea bro im not much in H F or B, but my very close friend had F20B manual T2T4 and he won from H22 obd 1 which was i guess 190hp version. but this is not always the thing and a nice tuned F20B can make me smile.

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    First i had plan to put in B16B but couldn't find one so F20B was a decent option with healthy compression.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ahmedraja1996 View Post
    yea bro im not much in H F or B, but my very close friend had F20B manual T2T4 and he won from H22 obd 1 which was i guess 190hp version. but this is not always the thing and a nice tuned F20B can make me smile.
    see bro, exceptions are everywhere, i myself used to beat h22's f20's b20's etc from my ex b16 (that was built).
    but yeah, for daily you're going to enjoy this f20
    ''Peace is an unstable equilibrium,that can only be preserved by acknowledged supremacy and...equal power.'' ''We give up the fort when there is not a man left to defend it.''

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    Quote Originally Posted by immad100 View Post
    see bro, exceptions are everywhere, i myself used to beat h22's f20's b20's etc from my ex b16 (that was built).
    but yeah, for daily you're going to enjoy this f20
    Atleast it can make 4AGE BT or 2ZZ owners cry hehehehe

    some tips for the swap bro and some improvements i should make in suspension exhaust clutch kits fuel pressure etc

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    hahaha yes, i hate 20v's they are over rated, 2zz's are great btw.
    Get the swap done, there is alot more you can do on this motor.
    03207101027 are my digits, feel free to ask anytime.
    thumbs up!
    ''Peace is an unstable equilibrium,that can only be preserved by acknowledged supremacy and...equal power.'' ''We give up the fort when there is not a man left to defend it.''

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    Quote Originally Posted by immad100 View Post
    h23's reving 8.5k arent making power uptil there at all, and they dont rev it 8.5k all day long, on the other hand h22's arent as risky as 23's are on such revving range. broken rods? spun bearings? the question has the answer itself, i had been running bone stock h22's block with stock pistons and rods and stock bearings till 275whp on a turbo'd setup, stock rods are good till 300ish whp mate.
    you have some serious knowledge in Honda swaps that is great btw

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    thanks for the kindwords mate!
    ''Peace is an unstable equilibrium,that can only be preserved by acknowledged supremacy and...equal power.'' ''We give up the fort when there is not a man left to defend it.''

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    Quote Originally Posted by immad100 View Post
    lol i dunno why everyone is taking my opinion kinda offensive, i said earlier f20b's are good daily motors, just had an argument over potential and power stuff later on with uiv, i wish goodluck to the OP for his particular project
    Nothing is offensive here mate- exchanging information is a cheaper way to learn then getting it all done for real. That's what Forums are for.
    Waise b argument k baghir baat ka kya maza?


    Quote Originally Posted by immad100 View Post
    h23's reving 8.5k arent making power uptil there at all, and they dont rev it 8.5k all day long, on the other hand h22's arent as risky as 23's are on such revving range. broken rods? spun bearings? the question has the answer itself, i had been running bone stock h22's block with stock pistons and rods and stock bearings till 275whp on a turbo'd setup, stock rods are good till 300ish whp mate.
    I never meant stock H23 revving to 8.5k, why'd one do that, there's no power after 7k there. But yes, a built H23 motor- with better cams, springs, retainers, oil squirters, and perhaps a balancing job- can rev upto 8500 all day long. That's what I said; and also that H22 should rev better, being better balanced.

    But I can bet any Pakistani currency coin that H23 would give H22 run for its money in similar and stock conditions.

    Then again, I laid my argument on stock motors at first place by acknowledging that every thing you said is true, but for a track or serious business car. For a daily driven vehicle with every thing in stock, up to the fuel pump- choices can vary according to one's taste, i.e. I'd always prefer an H22/23 for an Accord or Prelude- but in a Civic I'd go for F20b over an H.

    Quote Originally Posted by immad100 View Post
    f20b's were introduced when honda had no <2L motor to compete, they destroked H22's, provided better sleeves, slapped in typeS cams and gave you the best they could, so f20b's were already maxed out right out of the box.
    see records, nobody even bothers to run F20b's out there on drag tracks, all they got is H2B stroked motors.
    Though, for a daily driven fun car,f20b is good, h22 would meet the purpose too without any flaw.
    See, there's my point: if you want a bigger motor on a budget, want to run it stock in a lighter car- why'd you not get the one that's maxed out by the factory over the one that was deliberately kept low on power for mid torque, and could've been better if it had a little 'S' letter hanging around with it?
    They both produce similarish HP. Yeah F20 is a bit low on torque but it'd feel more alive coz of higher revs and better balancing.

    Let me put it this way: given a choice of these motors in an EK Civic, would you go for H22 or a B18C ? See, how H motors pull with no drama, and B motors bark without going anywhere. Combine both and you get an F20b. It's in the mid way, best of both worlds, so why not that? And it comes at half the price of H22, and a lot lot less than B18C.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ahmedraja1996 View Post
    The F20B is less common, so you can be "different"... however, it looks like an H22A to most people, and to people that know nothing about these cars. The F20B has a higher redline, so you get the fun of revving it to the moon.It ONLY comes in OBD2... therefore, you will need either a full OBD2 conversion to your car (not happening), a fully tuned ECU, or an H22's P13 (which won't run it properly, but good enough not to damage it.) The OBD2 swaps are a little more complicated than the OBD1 H22A swaps as well. Not bad, but an extra step or two. It shares many things in common with the H22A, so some parts are easy to find. The F20B comes in two varieties... a 200hp manual version, and a 180hp automatic version. You really can't tell them apart (I believe the difference is in the cams... the manual version has H22A Type S cams, and the auto version has regular H22A cams.) So you'll have to trust whatever importer you buy from, or risk getting the lower powered one. Honestly, performance-wise they're very VERY similar. The H22A is more well-rounded and more supported.
    Google much bro?
    Anyhow, you CAN tell between MT and AT F20b if you know what you're looking at. Cams are different, throttle size is different, wiring is a give away if there is any, etc.

    Your car is already OBD2. Keep it that way, it'd save you a lot of trouble. Why is OBD2 difficult again?

    For OBD1 conversion with P13, you'd need to get injectors and resistor box, and get an adapter plate for IACV. Some may tell you that your dizzy won't work, but trust me it will, I have done it myself. Same goes with the EGR, OBD1 used 3 wire, solenoid operated vacuum controlled one, OBD2 uses 5 wire electric. I had made that work as well, though with a block off plate just to shut CEL up, not properly operating.
    It's simple to run OBD2 H22/23 on OBD1, not sure about F20b though. It has higher compression, timing could pose a problem, perhaps immad100 can shed some light on it.


    IMO, save yourself, keep OBD2.

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    Quote Originally Posted by uiv View Post
    Nothing is offensive here mate- exchanging information is a cheaper way to learn then getting it all done for real. That's what Forums are for.
    Waise b argument k baghir baat ka kya maza?




    I never meant stock H23 revving to 8.5k, why'd one do that, there's no power after 7k there. But yes, a built H23 motor- with better cams, springs, retainers, oil squirters, and perhaps a balancing job- can rev upto 8500 all day long. That's what I said; and also that H22 should rev better, being better balanced.

    But I can bet any Pakistani currency coin that H23 would give H22 run for its money in similar and stock conditions.

    Then again, I laid my argument on stock motors at first place by acknowledging that every thing you said is true, but for a track or serious business car. For a daily driven vehicle with every thing in stock, up to the fuel pump- choices can vary according to one's taste, i.e. I'd always prefer an H22/23 for an Accord or Prelude- but in a Civic I'd go for F20b over an H.



    See, there's my point: if you want a bigger motor on a budget, want to run it stock in a lighter car- why'd you not get the one that's maxed out by the factory over the one that was deliberately kept low on power for mid torque, and could've been better if it had a little 'S' letter hanging around with it?
    They both produce similarish HP. Yeah F20 is a bit low on torque but it'd feel more alive coz of higher revs and better balancing.

    Let me put it this way: given a choice of these motors in an EK Civic, would you go for H22 or a B18C ? See, how H motors pull with no drama, and B motors bark without going anywhere. Combine both and you get an F20b. It's in the mid way, best of both worlds, so why not that? And it comes at half the price of H22, and a lot lot less than B18C.
    Well, that's how you think over different perspectives. f20b's are already maxed out and when you try to juice further, its kinda more difficult, H's do better in that case and realize every bit of $ spent over. i repeat ive seen bone stock short block H22's with bone stock pistons rods crank bearings etc pulling out 250-260whp on a built head, people have come to know now that FRM sleeves are better than the regular ones over many issues. so yes, if one isnt into power building and has a view to drive a lil more powerful car than a stockish one, f20b is a good option (i term f20b's pretty well when turbo'd on stock blocks) but if someone is into building power, H series anyday anytime hands down imo.
    ps:healthy argument is always fun

    @OBD-I or OBD-II
    yes, stock setups are heck free on OBD2, less heck, more sensitive. but when you're in urge of getting more power, for tuning purposes you're supposed to shift on OBD1 to avail the goodness of hondata stuff, in my case i had been on OBD2 (p5m ecu, best obd2 ecu ive ever been through i'd say) i ran, shaved + pnp'd head, and all boltons despite cams on that setup, later when i got it all built i did shift at hondata (in a p28).
    ''Peace is an unstable equilibrium,that can only be preserved by acknowledged supremacy and...equal power.'' ''We give up the fort when there is not a man left to defend it.''

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    the biggest gripe I have seen with H22 is that the more you rev - the more you consume oil as fuel too - due to the coated sleeves. Its not unheard of to top up about the same quantity of oil as the sump holds - when it comes to oil change time.
    ZRS - Zulfiqar Racing Systems ..... - professionals at work - at crackwheels.com

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