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Thread: Honda F20B DOHC Compression Test

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    Default Honda F20B DOHC Compression Test

    Me and my brother have bought Honda F20B to swap into EK Civic, the readings we got are Cyl 1: 235 Cyl 2: 225 Cyl 3: 235 Cyl 4: 225
    Are these readings good? It is with T2T4 transmission. @capsat @Xulfiqar
    Actually we had Civic Ek which had D16 in it which was driven about 300k km but it overheated and block cracked so we threw out the D16 and bought F20B. Will swap it in till the car gets ready from body shop.

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    ^^Yes but not upto the extant which does fall in danger, its normally around half quarter after 1500km aprox that too is more prone in older motors,(i never had this issue though in my 3 ex motors as i used to get the oil changed before i used to clock 1200km's) and recommended viscosity for h22's is 10w30. h22's had these coated sleeves which were designed for lesser friction at higher temperatures.
    NSX's (c32b) had these sleeves too, many other legendary motors had these sleeves, so this isnt a con actually unless you're too lazy for regular oil changes or else if you do them at due time you arent supposed to face problems such as too much oil reduction etc.
    ''Peace is an unstable equilibrium,that can only be preserved by acknowledged supremacy and...equal power.'' ''We give up the fort when there is not a man left to defend it.''

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    Quote Originally Posted by immad100 View Post
    Well, that's how you think over different perspectives. f20b's are already maxed out and when you try to juice further, its kinda more difficult, H's do better in that case and realize every bit of $ spent over. i repeat ive seen bone stock short block H22's with bone stock pistons rods crank bearings etc pulling out 250-260whp on a built head, people have come to know now that FRM sleeves are better than the regular ones over many issues. so yes, if one isnt into power building and has a view to drive a lil more powerful car than a stockish one, f20b is a good option (i term f20b's pretty well when turbo'd on stock blocks) but if someone is into building power, H series anyday anytime hands down imo.
    ps:healthy argument is always fun

    @OBD-I or OBD-II
    yes, stock setups are heck free on OBD2, less heck, more sensitive. but when you're in urge of getting more power, for tuning purposes you're supposed to shift on OBD1 to avail the goodness of hondata stuff, in my case i had been on OBD2 (p5m ecu, best obd2 ecu ive ever been through i'd say) i ran, shaved + pnp'd head, and all boltons despite cams on that setup, later when i got it all built i did shift at hondata (in a p28).
    See, it's all upon personal preferences. If I have to get beefy motor for my car in big money- forget a turbo H, forget an all motor K- I'd get myself a J series V6 and keep it stock.
    I'm sure transplanting a V6 J into an old Accord would be lesser a job then building an H or swapping AND building a K, or anything. And it'd be cheaper, more reliable and more fun to drive as well.

    Why'd one get a 40k four banger 2 litre motor; and then go around spending 4 times more than that making it one forth of a bit more powerful? What's wrong with a bigger motor for same sum of money? No replacement for displacement, right? Anyhow, that's how I feel.

    About FRM, of course they are better. They used FRM in NSX and S2000 as well. But back then they thought stock was sufficient and that the dohc vtec is the answer to all the power, economy etc problems caused by the 80s fuel crisis... Alas they never learnt new tricks with the passing time, and they never carried Soichiro's legacy and Senna's passion.
    Look where they are now, exactly no where. No performance cars, no better engines, no place in Formula 1, and all those 'fabulous' fanboys.
    Wait... it wasn't about nostalgia, was it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by immad100 View Post
    ^^Yes but not upto the extant which does fall in danger, its normally around half quarter after 1500km aprox that too is more prone in older motors,(i never had this issue though in my 3 ex motors as i used to get the oil changed before i used to clock 1200km's) and recommended viscosity for h22's is 10w30. h22's had these coated sleeves which were designed for lesser friction at higher temperatures.
    NSX's (c32b) had these sleeves too, many other legendary motors had these sleeves, so this isnt a con actually unless you're too lazy for regular oil changes or else if you do them at due time you arent supposed to face problems such as too much oil reduction etc.
    See, we differ here as well
    I think changing oil at 1200 is a waste- 3 to 5k should be fine depends upon how you drive it. But then again yours were build and mine stock. And the fact that I never raced them, just occasional thrashing around. So...

    And for some reasons, I like to stick to 10w40 in Pakistan. But hey, that's just me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by immad100 View Post
    ^^Yes but not upto the extant which does fall in danger, its normally around half quarter after 1500km aprox that too is more prone in older motors,(i never had this issue though in my 3 ex motors as i used to get the oil changed before i used to clock 1200km's) and recommended viscosity for h22's is 10w30. h22's had these coated sleeves which were designed for lesser friction at higher temperatures.
    NSX's (c32b) had these sleeves too, many other legendary motors had these sleeves, so this isnt a con actually unless you're too lazy for regular oil changes or else if you do them at due time you arent supposed to face problems such as too much oil reduction etc.

    its not related to oil changes either as you think, the oil consumption is a fact in nearly all nicasil lined engines be them from Japan or Germany, The piston rings wear out faster than the liner - lets take a standard 5 litre oil capacity - I have usually seen H22 use up about 1 litre every 2000 kms (high rpm scoot on the highway for extended time) - OCI for this would be near to about 6000 kms - I would have topped up about half the sump capacity.. This in my opninion is not very smart. Now if the H22 would hold an 8 litre sump then I can see it OK (like the germans build it)


    you wrote that you change oil at 1200 kms?? --- what oil was so poor that it was worn out at 1200 kms?
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    Quote Originally Posted by uiv View Post
    See, we differ here as well
    I think changing oil at 1200 is a waste- 3 to 5k should be fine depends upon how you drive it. But then again yours were build and mine stock. And the fact that I never raced them, just occasional thrashing around. So...

    And for some reasons, I like to stick to 10w40 in Pakistan. But hey, that's just me.
    change at 3-5k is an obvious abuse for these motors, they're already too old and i won't recommend driving em more than 2.5k at all.
    ps: i presume lubricants arent expensive and you're not going to change em everyday.
    ''Peace is an unstable equilibrium,that can only be preserved by acknowledged supremacy and...equal power.'' ''We give up the fort when there is not a man left to defend it.''

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    Quote Originally Posted by immad100 View Post
    change at 3-5k is an obvious abuse for these motors, they're already too old and i won't recommend driving em more than 2.5k at all.
    ps: i presume lubricants arent expensive and you're not going to change em everyday.
    Expensive lubes in an doch vtec, especially an H22, is a big NO in my opinion. You'll end up burning it anyway, so why waste?
    But, yeah 3-5k isn't that much. I mean if it's a daily driven you cover that mileage in what, a month or so?

    About being old, what's old about a motor with a healthy compression, clean internals and no deposits? 'Tis still an engine mate, there's no extra chromosome there, so why treat it so differently?
    An oil designed to protect till 5k should be good till at least 3k or something- given H22's design tolerance- but I'd say it again that IMO 1200 is an overkill, especially in an NA motor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xulfiqar View Post
    its not related to oil changes either as you think, the oil consumption is a fact in nearly all nicasil lined engines be them from Japan or Germany, The piston rings wear out faster than the liner - lets take a standard 5 litre oil capacity - I have usually seen H22 use up about 1 litre every 2000 kms (high rpm scoot on the highway for extended time) - OCI for this would be near to about 6000 kms - I would have topped up about half the sump capacity.. This in my opninion is not very smart. Now if the H22 would hold an 8 litre sump then I can see it OK (like the germans build it)


    you wrote that you change oil at 1200 kms?? --- what oil was so poor that it was worn out at 1200 kms?



    1)its not the way i think either, that was a response to the glitch mentioned by you.
    see bro, FRM's are rather stronger, the bad part comes in when people try to use X,Y,Z pistons on FRM's and then they blame sleeves. If this was so as a real problem mentioned by you i'm afraid why high performance machines like prosche's got same sleeves? even S2k's motor has similar sleeves. and i repeat there is not that much amount of oil reduction that you tend to pour too much oil on the top, if you're doing so, there must be some weak end in your motor.


    2)Hold on mate, there's a difference between ''nikasil'' coating and FRM liners, and no H series had nikasil coating. Though yes, BMW's had them often.

    3)Do note pistons used in FRM applications aren't the same used along iron sleeves, they're special coated FRM friendly pistons, and that's how people blame FRM's when they use inappropriate pistons and blame FRM's.

    4) 1 litre after 2k km's? well, you've been through some seriously ill motors imo.

    5) Yes after every 1200km's, just being at extra safe side. do note: my motor had a fully built head and semi built bottom and i used to pop 8.6k rpm all day long with open TB's. so yeah, changing oil at 1200km's was pretty legit for me. no, the oil wasn't poor ever. neither poor, nor eaten up ever.
    ''Peace is an unstable equilibrium,that can only be preserved by acknowledged supremacy and...equal power.'' ''We give up the fort when there is not a man left to defend it.''

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    Quote Originally Posted by uiv View Post
    Expensive lubes in an doch vtec, especially an H22, is a big NO in my opinion. You'll end up burning it anyway, so why waste?
    But, yeah 3-5k isn't that much. I mean if it's a daily driven you cover that mileage in what, a month or so?

    About being old, what's old about a motor with a healthy compression, clean internals and no deposits? 'Tis still an engine mate, there's no extra chromosome there, so why treat it so differently?
    An oil designed to protect till 5k should be good till at least 3k or something- given H22's design tolerance- but I'd say it again that IMO 1200 is an overkill, especially in an NA motor.
    They're old motors mate, they have been passed through serious set of abuses. 3-5k is hell too much. that's what i won't recommend, if you still want to save some $ while taking the risk, sure that's upto you. popping beyond 2.5k isnt recommended at all, no matter how you drive, you're risking you precious motor just because being in pursuit of saving some $ over lubes.
    1200 is an overkill? only if you had experiences with a race built motor, ive seen people changing oil's after 8-10 track runs (that makes it 10 X 400m) not even 4 kilometers mate, so yeah, it depends upon the level of build. my motor wasnt stock, i had mad gearing, mad revving capability, mad compression and 1200km change is what i ''needed''
    ''Peace is an unstable equilibrium,that can only be preserved by acknowledged supremacy and...equal power.'' ''We give up the fort when there is not a man left to defend it.''

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    Good decision in going forward with the F20b.
    its truly an amazing motor.
    the bore x stroke is amazing. everythings maxed out from factory. Honda gave it the best they had at that time.
    just be sure to keep feeding it adequate air if you plan to rev it high.
    yeah, i support the quick oil changes. 3000kms and consider it maxed outt. 2500kms to be safe.

    good luck with your future plans!

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    Quote Originally Posted by asif037 View Post
    yeah, i support the quick oil changes. 3000kms and consider it maxed outt. 2500kms to be safe.
    good luck with your future plans!
    What's wrong with extended intervals? What makes you change the oil prematurely? How'd an oil fail so fast when used inside a higher compression motor?
    If you have an oil with high reserve alkalinity and lots of friction modifier/EP additives/AW additives, why would you want to change it at less than the half of recommended intervals?

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    Quote Originally Posted by immad100 View Post
    They're old motors mate, they have been passed through serious set of abuses. 3-5k is hell too much. that's what i won't recommend, if you still want to save some $ while taking the risk, sure that's upto you. popping beyond 2.5k isnt recommended at all, no matter how you drive, you're risking you precious motor just because being in pursuit of saving some $ over lubes.
    1200 is an overkill? only if you had experiences with a race built motor, ive seen people changing oil's after 8-10 track runs (that makes it 10 X 400m) not even 4 kilometers mate, so yeah, it depends upon the level of build. my motor wasnt stock, i had mad gearing, mad revving capability, mad compression and 1200km change is what i ''needed''

    umm

    I think you are using lubricants blended in the 40s for engines made in the 40s too, 2500 kms is about 1600 miles which is about right for the old oil change intervals found in american cars built in the 40s.

    secondly - you cannot compare a race built engine to a production line engine found in your car specially if its an econobox engine. Race built engines do not have a snobby emmissions nose to sniff their exhaust, they also are built to run at full power and you will see a lot of strange stuff in them, yes they do about 4 kms, but hey - my genny hasnt moved an inch in years - but ive changed its oil about 3 times.
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    Quote Originally Posted by asif037 View Post
    Good decision in going forward with the F20b.
    its truly an amazing motor.
    the bore x stroke is amazing. everythings maxed out from factory. Honda gave it the best they had at that time.
    just be sure to keep feeding it adequate air if you plan to rev it high.
    yeah, i support the quick oil changes. 3000kms and consider it maxed outt. 2500kms to be safe.

    good luck with your future plans!

    Your lube shop owner LOVES you..
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    I used Shell 10W40 in F20B and drained it after 3k, was pretty normal. No reduction or abnormalities. Heard H22 is bit hard on oil. But Hey there is no big deal just use quality lube and drain it after 3 months/ 3000km. Many people here change oil on H22 H23 F20 B16 B18 at 1000-1500km they say "these are high revving motors hence drain it early " But i think 3k is good enough.

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    exactly my point sir.
    these are high revving engines. always best to keep these engines' internals in a clean lubricated state if you intend to run it hard and make sure it lasts.
    otherwise, if we use it for basic commuting, 5000kms no prob. i myself, im running havoline 10w30 4500kms+ (d16z6 vtec) now as im not running the engine hard lately.
    the oil is in good condition, just started getting a little dark 700kms ago. otherwise perfectly, smooth start ups and idles. yet will getting it flushed and renewed in a few days. its been there for quite a while.

    yes, 10w40 gets pretty thick when it reaches its optimum temp. it will keep the engine healthy, as in not let it burn oil until rings are severely worn.
    but if u want to help the engine produce extra kW (only if u feel like), i suggest u use 10w30. its thinner than 10w40 when it warms up. thinner the oil, easier the engine gets to rev up. but if u like the performance its putting out rightnow, then no worries, stick to the 10w40.

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    Quote Originally Posted by asif037 View Post
    exactly my point sir.
    these are high revving engines. always best to keep these engines' internals in a clean lubricated state if you intend to run it hard and make sure it lasts.
    otherwise, if we use it for basic commuting, 5000kms no prob. i myself, im running havoline 10w30 4500kms+ (d16z6 vtec) now as im not running the engine hard lately.
    the oil is in good condition, just started getting a little dark 700kms ago. otherwise perfectly, smooth start ups and idles. yet will getting it flushed and renewed in a few days. its been there for quite a while.

    yes, 10w40 gets pretty thick when it reaches its optimum temp. it will keep the engine healthy, as in not let it burn oil until rings are severely worn.
    but if u want to help the engine produce extra kW (only if u feel like), i suggest u use 10w30. its thinner than 10w40 when it warms up. thinner the oil, easier the engine gets to rev up. but if u like the performance its putting out rightnow, then no worries, stick to the 10w40.
    Well oil plays a role but not that much that it can gain kW. I think my motor is 190ish hp these are rated at 200hp manual has aggressive cams and fuel economy is about 8km/l. Just blew Toyo 3S beams in drag HAHA. Honda rev like crazy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by immad100 View Post
    They're old motors mate, they have been passed through serious set of abuses. 3-5k is hell too much. that's what i won't recommend, if you still want to save some $ while taking the risk, sure that's upto you. popping beyond 2.5k isnt recommended at all, no matter how you drive, you're risking you precious motor just because being in pursuit of saving some $ over lubes.
    1200 is an overkill? only if you had experiences with a race built motor, ive seen people changing oil's after 8-10 track runs (that makes it 10 X 400m) not even 4 kilometers mate, so yeah, it depends upon the level of build. my motor wasnt stock, i had mad gearing, mad revving capability, mad compression and 1200km change is what i ''needed''

    Bro a friend wants to buy K24, he saw a engine and compression was 200 on all four cylinders is this good? Wants to swap in ES

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    [QUOTE=ahmedraja1996;4624450]Me and my brother have bought Honda F20B to swap into EK Civic, the readings we got are Cyl 1: 235 Cyl 2: 225 Cyl 3: 235 Cyl 4: 225


    Bro...can you share or PM me the cost of F20b as i am planning to put one in my 1996 CD3 Accord with auto tranny...TKS

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    [QUOTE=mallic;4752280]
    Quote Originally Posted by ahmedraja1996 View Post
    Me and my brother have bought Honda F20B to swap into EK Civic, the readings we got are Cyl 1: 235 Cyl 2: 225 Cyl 3: 235 Cyl 4: 225


    Bro...can you share or PM me the cost of F20b as i am planning to put one in my 1996 CD3 Accord with auto tranny...TKS
    i hav3 2 f20b for sale fresh elf import .... with auto manual gears both ..what ever you like

    pm for price
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahmedraja1996 View Post
    Bro a friend wants to buy K24, he saw a engine and compression was 200 on all four cylinders is this good? Wants to swap in ES
    there are alot of versions in K24 ... which 1 are you talking about
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    all owners and when you share details do mention your engine usage .. a production made stock motor cnt be compared with a built 1

    1200km change ...was that all km done doing 1/4 mile

    but a engine running with stock air box in city from office to home ...even 4000km for non synthetic fuel is perfect

    if your oil compant suggests 5k then do 4k

    and if you are running with after market chines air filters ..reduce it further 500km as oil will be getting dirty quickly

    and if you are reving hogh n higways and using for performance purpose...just keep an eye on oil ...2500 to 3000 is good time to change
    MOTOR MANIACS ... An automotive service and repair workshop
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