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Thread: Gear oil for civic vti manual 2005

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    Default Gear oil for civic vti manual 2005

    Dear Pakwheelers,

    I am planning to get my civic's transmission oil changed. The onwer's manual says to purchase the oil from honda only known as mtf. This oil costs around 1210 per litre. And I believe that my car is going to need 2 litres. On the other hand, the owner's manual also states that a premium motor oil sae 10w30 or 10w40 can also be used as a substitute. What do experts recommend here????


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    Quote Originally Posted by hassaaniqbal92 View Post
    gear oil changed today. I tried to test the knowledge of spare parts wala. I asked him about the oil to be poured in my manual civic vti's transmission, and his reply was " yaar yeh manual vti hai, iss me zic ff ya shell spiralex best rhengay, yeh top class k gear oils hain" I was shocked and told him that my owners manual says to use either honda mtf or any motor oil with 10w40 or 10w30 viscosity and he again replied "Beta honda mtf zic ff hi hota hai, aankh band kar k daal lo" I was thanking Allah and praising all the PW members else I would have followed his recommendation and screwed my transmission. So I had poured in zic m api sj 15w40 and my gear shifting seems very soft and smooth.
    Bro whether you like it or not, your mechanic was right, regardless he knows the logic behind this or not and most of the pakwheels scholars are wrong here.
    Never use motor oil in place of gear oil...they are both have completely different formulation..
    Gear oils contain anti shear and Extreme Pressure additives while engine oil contains Anti wear additives as gear and engine are subjected to different type of stresses.
    From Suzuki to Audi almost every manufacturer use roughly same viscosity 75W90 gear oils for manual transmission. Additives are different offcourse...Even Honda MTF has viscosity of 75W80.
    Point you have missed is that gear oil and motor oils have different nomenclature for viscosities. 75W90 gear oil's viscosity is roughly equal to 10W40 motor oil's. Just take 5 mins off from here and spend them googling, sometimes google is better than here...attached pic would give you some idea about comparing viscosities.....
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    NiGhT ShAdE>>~

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    Btw here is the picture of Civic's manual where it is clearly mentioned that 10W30/40 motor oil could be used temporarily in case MTF is not available, continuous use will permanently damage the transmission
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    NiGhT ShAdE>>~

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    Quote Originally Posted by NiGhTShAdE View Post
    Btw here is the picture of Civic's manual where it is clearly mentioned that 10W30/40 motor oil could be used temporarily in case MTF is not available, continuous use will permanently damage the transmission
    mine manual only says to use suitable engine oil. thats it..
    the problem is not our govt... its the people..

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    Quote Originally Posted by nfssaad View Post
    mine manual only says to use suitable engine oil. thats it..
    Can u post a pic?

    Sent using Curiosity's onboard communications sytem.
    Death is not the greatest loss in life. The greatest loss is what dies inside us while we live.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NiGhTShAdE View Post
    Bro whether you like it or not, your mechanic was right, regardless he knows the logic behind this or not and most of the pakwheels scholars are wrong here.
    Never use motor oil in place of gear oil...they are both have completely different formulation..
    Gear oils contain anti shear and Extreme Pressure additives while engine oil contains Anti wear additives as gear and engine are subjected to different type of stresses.
    From Suzuki to Audi almost every manufacturer use roughly same viscosity 75W90 gear oils for manual transmission. Additives are different offcourse...Even Honda MTF has viscosity of 75W80.
    Point you have missed is that gear oil and motor oils have different nomenclature for viscosities. 75W90 gear oil's viscosity is roughly equal to 10W40 motor oil's. Just take 5 mins off from here and spend them googling, sometimes google is better than here...attached pic would give you some idea about comparing viscosities.....
    If it would have been the same then Honda would have said to use a suitable gl4 75w85 gear oil. Ppl on this forum have been complaining that using a gear oil in honda has led to stiffer shifting. Btw, I am the second owner and when I got the previous transmission oil drained, it was nothing like a gear oil. It was less viscous, no smell of gear oil, and black in colour. It wss quite similar to engine oil

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    Default My turn?

    I am posting screen shots of many Honda's owner manuals. It should cover all Honda made engine/transmission variety.
    Now see if you can spot a pattern there.


    93 Honda Del Sol
    B and D series engines

    Gear oil for civic vti manual 2005 -1531751


    95 Accord
    F series engines

    Gear oil for civic vti manual 2005 -1531755
    96 Accord.
    Same car, same engine.

    Gear oil for civic vti manual 2005 -1531754


    95 Prelude
    H, F Series engines

    Gear oil for civic vti manual 2005 -1531756
    96 Prelude
    Same car, same engine.

    Gear oil for civic vti manual 2005 -1531757



    95 Civic
    D series engines

    Gear oil for civic vti manual 2005 -1531753
    96 Civic
    Different car, same engines

    Gear oil for civic vti manual 2005 -1531752

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    Quote Originally Posted by uiv View Post
    I am posting screen shots of many Honda's owner manuals. It should cover all Honda made engine/transmission variety.
    Now see if you can spot a pattern there.
    Simple patterm.
    After 95 Honda no longer recommends Motor oil for transmission rather MTF due to different additives of MTF and Motor Oil, though motor oil option is not discarded in case MTF is not available but wants it to get it replaced with proper MTF ASAP....
    NiGhT ShAdE>>~

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    You can see that all Honda transmissions- be it the D,B,H,F series- were designed to use motor oils, not ordinary MTF else they'd have advised for that in the owner manual, just like they did for ATF.

    Now, what happened in 96? All the cars, engine/transmission remained that same but Honda suddenly started to advertise for their MTF. It's because before 1996 they didn't have an MTF, ordinary SF,SG,SH motor oil was good enough back then. But with the introduction of newer grades with lower zinc and lower phosphorus additives, ordinary motor oil was becoming lesser and lesser suitable to be used in their transmission. Hence they had to come up with their own MTF.

    Today we're not advised to pour motor oil coz newer oils lack in vital additives, especially zinc compounds; those are absolutely necessary to work under extreme stress condition. But thank fully diesel oils haven't changed much and are still suitable for the job.

    And if you're not sure, and only want to go for some MTF, what's wrong with OEM at first place?

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    Quote Originally Posted by NiGhTShAdE View Post
    Simple patterm.
    After 95 Honda no longer recommends Motor oil for transmission rather MTF due to different additives of MTF and Motor Oil, though motor oil option is not discarded in case MTF is not available but wants it to get it replaced with proper MTF ASAP....
    Not proper MTF, Honda MTF.

    See, Honda manuals say that 'if Honda MTF is not available, use motor oils etc etc. They didn't say go for this or that grade MTF off the shelf, they suggested your rather went for motor oil.

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    Gear oils don't use Zinc....they use Sulfur and Phosphorus compounds as additives execpt for bronze or brass gears which have completely different type of specialized additives....
    NiGhT ShAdE>>~

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    Quote Originally Posted by uiv View Post
    Not proper MTF, Honda MTF.

    See, Honda manuals say that 'if Honda MTF is not available, use motor oils etc etc. They didn't say go for this or that grade MTF off the shelf, they suggested your rather went for motor oil.
    Honda MTF is nothing special....its an ordinary MTF infact even lower in quality than many....go through Honda's technical forums on web and you'll get all the specs you want....
    NiGhT ShAdE>>~

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    Quote Originally Posted by NiGhTShAdE View Post
    Gear oils don't use Zinc....they use Sulfur and Phosphorus compounds as additives execpt for bronze or brass gears which have completely different type of specialized additives....
    Do you smell sulphur in Honda MTF?
    For some reason- probably the use of brass synchros- they preffered ZDDP over sulphur as EP additive.


    Quote Originally Posted by NiGhTShAdE View Post
    Honda MTF is nothing special....its an ordinary MTF infact even lower in quality than many....go through Honda's technical forums on web and you'll get all the specs you want....
    Honda MTF is the best you can buy for your Honda, at least in Pakistan.
    Have you tried ZIC FF in a Honda? I've seen many funny Honda transmission cases with off the shelf MTF.

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    @uiv is right

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    Woah. So much technicalities

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    Quote Originally Posted by NiGhTShAdE View Post
    Honda MTF is nothing special....its an ordinary MTF infact even lower in quality than many....go through Honda's technical forums on web and you'll get all the specs you want....
    U mean to say that honda mtf and any other mtf are same??????

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    Quote Originally Posted by ayan_cdkey View Post
    U mean to say that honda mtf and any other mtf are same??????
    Obviously additives vary but base remains constant. Many compounds are even patented and many are even trade secrets but without EPs gear oils are useless and EPs are absent normal Motor Oils....
    Rest what you want to accept you may and what you don't want don't accept....I am out of this discussion....
    NiGhT ShAdE>>~

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    Quote Originally Posted by NiGhTShAdE View Post
    Bro whether you like it or not, your mechanic was right, regardless he knows the logic behind this or not and most of the pakwheels scholars are wrong here.
    Never use motor oil in place of gear oil...they are both have completely different formulation..
    Gear oils contain anti shear and Extreme Pressure additives while engine oil contains Anti wear additives as gear and engine are subjected to different type of stresses.
    From Suzuki to Audi almost every manufacturer use roughly same viscosity 75W90 gear oils for manual transmission. Additives are different offcourse...Even Honda MTF has viscosity of 75W80.
    Point you have missed is that gear oil and motor oils have different nomenclature for viscosities. 75W90 gear oil's viscosity is roughly equal to 10W40 motor oil's. Just take 5 mins off from here and spend them googling, sometimes google is better than here...attached pic would give you some idea about comparing viscosities.....
    Hahahahaha. What are you talking about bhai????? Do u have any idea about the difference between the mechanism of a honda manual transmission and any other xyz brand vehicle manual transmission????

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    Quote Originally Posted by hassaaniqbal92 View Post
    Hahahahaha. What are you talking about bhai????? Do u have any idea about the difference between the mechanism of a honda manual transmission and any other xyz brand vehicle manual transmission????
    Though didn't wanted to be back in discussion but you sound interesting so thought why not to grab a chance to get some knowledge. Please enlighten me with the differences in working mechanism that you talked about? I would love to know them.....also kindly elborate what is the extra ordinary differece in Metal properties of common honda manual gear boxes and also shed some light preferably pointwise comparing MANUAL TRASMISSIONS of Common Honda Cars with others like Toyota and almost every other brand that recommend Gear Oils over coventional Motor oils for gear boxes....? Would also appreciate if you could provide few references confirming completely different nature of Honda Manual Transmissions. Coz as per my limited knowledge other than high performing transmission there are not considerable differences in manual transmissions unlike ATs that differ considerably from brand to brand....
    Seriously I would love to know some scientific and logical explanation that could increase my limited knowledge......
    NiGhT ShAdE>>~

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    Quote Originally Posted by NiGhTShAdE View Post
    Though didn't wanted to be back in discussion but you sound interesting so thought why not to grab a chance to get some knowledge. Please enlighten me with the differences in working mechanism that you talked about? I would love to know them.....also kindly elborate what is the extra ordinary differece in Metal properties of common honda manual gear boxes and also shed some light preferably pointwise comparing MANUAL TRASMISSIONS of Common Honda Cars with others like Toyota and almost every other brand that recommend Gear Oils over coventional Motor oils for gear boxes....? Would also appreciate if you could provide few references confirming completely different nature of Honda Manual Transmissions. Coz as per my limited knowledge other than high performing transmission there are not considerable differences in manual transmissions unlike ATs that differ considerably from brand to brand....
    Seriously I would love to know some scientific and logical explanation that could increase my limited knowledge......
    well i would've helped you if u owned a honda urself!!!!!! you got guts to argue, try reasoning with @Xulfiqar . furthermore @uiv is a senior member than you are, then why dont you provide me with some references instead or in depth knowledge of urs than convinces me to drop down the instructions of far more senior members and opt for yours. btw you seem interesting too, recommending for something which you have absolutely no experience with. If u owned a honda and used a gL oil in it then probably you would have never quoted this, cause u would have undergone a stiffer shifting but ALAS, you have no experience with it. In your whole AFSAANWEEEE KAHAANI, I did not find the statement "I USED TO POUR GL OIL IN MY CIVIC AND IT WORKED FINE" instead you are challenging the technicians who formulated the owners manual. kudos to u

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    Quote Originally Posted by NiGhTShAdE View Post
    Though didn't wanted to be back in discussion but you sound interesting so thought why not to grab a chance to get some knowledge. Please enlighten me with the differences in working mechanism that you talked about? I would love to know them.....also kindly elborate what is the extra ordinary differece in Metal properties of common honda manual gear boxes and also shed some light preferably pointwise comparing MANUAL TRASMISSIONS of Common Honda Cars with others like Toyota and almost every other brand that recommend Gear Oils over coventional Motor oils for gear boxes....? Would also appreciate if you could provide few references confirming completely different nature of Honda Manual Transmissions. Coz as per my limited knowledge other than high performing transmission there are not considerable differences in manual transmissions unlike ATs that differ considerably from brand to brand....
    Seriously I would love to know some scientific and logical explanation that could increase my limited knowledge......
    so what you're saying is that Honda doesn't know that 'gear oils' gl-4/5 are better for their manual transmissions as compared to engine oils they recommend?
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