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Thread: Civic Reborn ATF change Help Required

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    Default Civic Reborn ATF change Help Required

    Dear All,
    I would be grateful if you can give me advice/suggestions on the following problem
    I have a 2010 civic reborn with a mileage of 100k, the car has been regularly maintained from Honda with all the fluids changed on time. With its age my car has developed one very annoying little problem, it vibrates on light throttle between the speed of 20-40, the amount of vibration varies randomly. I had the car checked at Honda City Sales and they diagnosed it to be a fault with the transmission and recommended a transmission overhaul. I had the ATF changed 15,000 kms ago but I changed it again and the problem was solved for a few weeks.
    After about 2 weeks, the same problem has re emerged, although the amount of vibration has decreased but it is still there and can be felt.
    I discussed the problem with another Honda technician and also read the blogs of 8th gen civic. Apparently this problem is fairly common in this model and the problem occurs when solenoids are clogged and are not able to distribute the ATF evenly at low throttle.
    According to the forum and the 2nd Honda technician the problem can be resolved by changing the transmission oil 3-4 times after short intervals which would effectively clean the transmission. Honda does not recommend a transmission flush so the frequent oil changes would effectively clean it.

    To perform this procedure I need clarifications:
    1) Which ATF should I use? I have heard that AMSOIL ATF is better but the problem is my car currently has Honda ATF in it and as I cannot flush the previous ATF, so in order to use AMSOIL I would effectively be mixing it with the Honda ATF in the transmission, will that be safe for my transmission?
    2) I also read somewhere Honda has a transmission filter and changing ATF without the filter can be useless, therefore should I change the filter, as Honda terms it as a non replaceable part. If I should change the filter can anyone please recommend a workshop where it can be done and from where can the filter be bought?
    3) The last but the most important, by doing ether or both of the above can be problem be solved?

    I know it is very long query but I wanted to describe the situation as best as I could, I would be grateful for inputs in this matter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by galant1 View Post
    @Xulfiqar

    I have civic 99 vti oriel automatic and I put ATF-Z1. On the next atf change can I consider ATF-DW1? Which is better DW1 or Z1?

    Also please mention the complete procedure for taking out/flushing all old fluid completely from tranny -considering my car model.

    dont use Z1 or DW1 in that car, that transmission (pk model civic 99) uses an oldschool unit that takes ATF dexron 3 or similar. Same cooler line flush technique can also be used on that gearbox.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xulfiqar View Post
    dont use Z1 or DW1 in that car, that transmission (pk model civic 99) uses an oldschool unit that takes ATF dexron 3 or similar. Same cooler line flush technique can also be used on that gearbox.
    @Xulfiqar

    But manual of my car recommend Z1 or DW1 but you said don't use why-any reason of not using z1 or dw1?

    And tell me complete procedure how to flush the atf from cooler line and from tranny completely and how much atf required to fill after complete flush?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xulfiqar View Post
    where was that written,

    I said to use ATF DW1 and change out all the 6 or 7 litres of ATF in the gearbox.
    Im sure by new civic u meant the 9th gen civic while the op has the 8th gen civic..honda dealerships put atf z-1 in 8th gen civic usually..but dw-1 is surely better than z-1..
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    Quote Originally Posted by galant1 View Post
    @Xulfiqar

    But manual of my car recommend Z1 or DW1 but you said don't use why-any reason of not using z1 or dw1?

    And tell me complete procedure how to flush the atf from cooler line and from tranny completely and how much atf required to fill after complete flush?
    your transmission is hydraulic type not the electronic type (aka Honda prosmatec), ATF Z1 was specified to be used in the electronic type transmission. The old ones were and still use oldschool General Motors Dexron III ATF.

    The Z-1 and DW1 are called highly friction modified ATF, they have carefully formulated stiction properties which allow for more slip but quicker stall (bite) - the transmission control unit (ecu) applies the clutches and works the engine timing accordingly - meaning the ATF is actually a part that is required for such transmission to smoothly work.

    If you use an HFM ATF in the old gearboxes you can overheat the clutch packs (excess slip) in some cases and in some cases you can also hurt hard parts as the gearbox bites more harder at full power (seen in big nissans and toyotas etc)

    btw - look up the manual you have - what transmission model no. does it specify?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ziyad.ahmad.391 View Post
    Im sure by new civic u meant the 9th gen civic while the op has the 8th gen civic..honda dealerships put atf z-1 in 8th gen civic usually..but dw-1 is surely better than z-1..
    8th gen also used the DW1.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xulfiqar View Post
    your transmission is hydraulic type not the electronic type (aka Honda prosmatec), ATF Z1 was specified to be used in the electronic type transmission. The old ones were and still use oldschool General Motors Dexron III ATF.

    The Z-1 and DW1 are called highly friction modified ATF, they have carefully formulated stiction properties which allow for more slip but quicker stall (bite) - the transmission control unit (ecu) applies the clutches and works the engine timing accordingly - meaning the ATF is actually a part that is required for such transmission to smoothly work.

    If you use an HFM ATF in the old gearboxes you can overheat the clutch packs (excess slip) in some cases and in some cases you can also hurt hard parts as the gearbox bites more harder at full power (seen in big nissans and toyotas etc)

    btw - look up the manual you have - what transmission model no. does it specify?
    @Xulfiqar
    The matter is Z1 or DW1 is equivalent to dexron 3? the transmission model no in manual is "M4RA"
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    Quote Originally Posted by galant1 View Post
    @Xulfiqar
    The matter is Z1 or DW1 is equivalent to dexron 3? the transmission model no in manual is "M4RA"
    its not equal Dexron 3 stiction properties are different to Honda DW1.

    M4RA --- your car has an electric shift gearbox? - I dont think so.

    your car has a governor type hydraulic gearbox. - the first electric shift gearbox introduced by Atlas Honda cars was the 7th generation civic and were so excited about it that they even pasted a sticker on the back which said "prosmatec"

    the rest of the world saw that electric gearbox in the older civics - but not in Pakistan.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xulfiqar View Post
    its not equal Dexron 3 stiction properties are different to Honda DW1.

    M4RA --- your car has an electric shift gearbox? - I dont think so.

    your car has a governor type hydraulic gearbox. - the first electric shift gearbox introduced by Atlas Honda cars was the 7th generation civic and were so excited about it that they even pasted a sticker on the back which said "prosmatec"

    the rest of the world saw that electric gearbox in the older civics - but not in Pakistan.
    @Xulfiqar

    Yes I know that but I never said that my car has electronic control gearbox what I said manual said.

    Okay then which atf can be used in my car considering smooth shifting, high performance and in last no harm to transmission?
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    Quote Originally Posted by galant1 View Post
    @Xulfiqar

    Yes I know that but I never said that my car has electronic control gearbox what I said manual said.

    Okay then which atf can be used in my car considering smooth shifting, high performance and in last no harm to transmission?
    Your owner manual is incorrect perhaps.

    Use any Dexron-III clone, like caltex, Emarat, FUCHS, Shell etc.. used to sell.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xulfiqar View Post
    Your owner manual is incorrect perhaps.

    Use any Dexron-III clone, like caltex, Emarat, FUCHS, Shell etc.. used to sell.
    Okay. What about Zic ATF? How they are?

    Can I use ZIC DEXTRON VI? On their website their is written that it is backward compatible and can be used where dexron 3 is recommended.

    Link for reference-ZIC DEXTRON VI is Hi Tech Lubricants Limited
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    dex VI is a bit thinner with more stout base oil. I find its best to use the specified lubricant, e.g. I would use dex VI if I could not find any Dex III clone at all.

    the ZIC ATF III is a dexron III clone.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xulfiqar View Post
    dex VI is a bit thinner with more stout base oil. I find its best to use the specified lubricant, e.g. I would use dex VI if I could not find any Dex III clone at all.

    the ZIC ATF III is a dexron III clone.
    @Xulfiqar

    What is meant by stout base oil?

    What would happen if I use DEX V1 which is fully backward compatible in my car?

    What about Liqui Moly atf-which series can be used in my car?

    In last, In your point of view and experience which atf- best brand is best for my car in all aspects?

    And don't forget to mention 100% complete procedure of flushing the atf from trans and from cooler line?
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    stout base oil - means its a stronger base oil, good viscosity index and better heat transfer properties. Caltex used to sell their ATF in Pakistan which was really good product. Never had problems while using it.

    For cooler line flush, you need to put the return line from the radiator into a bucket, start engine and pump out 2 litres, shut it off, pour in 2 litres, start again and repeat for the whole 6 litres.

    leave a bit short to correct the ATF level. Do not overfill the gearbox as it can cause damage.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xulfiqar View Post
    stout base oil - means its a stronger base oil, good viscosity index and better heat transfer properties. Caltex used to sell their ATF in Pakistan which was really good product. Never had problems while using it.

    For cooler line flush, you need to put the return line from the radiator into a bucket, start engine and pump out 2 litres, shut it off, pour in 2 litres, start again and repeat for the whole 6 litres.

    leave a bit short to correct the ATF level. Do not overfill the gearbox as it can cause damage.
    @Xulfiqar

    Correct me if I am wrong. First I will drain out atf from trans by opening the nut and after this I will take out the atf from cooler line. This is correct procedure or not?

    Please update with us complete procedure step by step in detail because most of them here are not aware of flushing the complete old atf from trans and cooler lines.

    Also what will be total amount of atf that i should buy for whole process for my car? The gear box take atf 2.7 liters.
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    @Xulfiqar

    Correct me if I am wrong. First I will drain out atf from trans by opening the nut and after this I will take out the atf from cooler line. This is correct procedure or not?

    Please update with us complete procedure step by step in detail because most of them here are not aware of flushing the complete old atf from trans and cooler lines.

    Also what will be total amount of atf that i should buy for whole process for my car? The gear box take atf 2.7 liters.
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    The gearbox takes about 7 litres of ATF, the 2.5 litres of ATF that comes out from the drain nut is just the reserve in the sump that is cast into the case. About 3.5 litres is in the torque converter and about a litre is trapped in the valve body etc.

    To take it out easily from the cooler line - find a clear container and mark it in litres.

    remove dipstick from transmission case

    remove both lines from transmission cooler in radiator (start engine and find out which one pumps ATF) - put that in the container.

    start engine and let it drain ATF into the container to 2 litres and stop engine

    fill 2 litres ATF in the transmission from the dipstick

    start engine and drain ATF into container again to 2 litres and stop engine

    fill 2 litres of ATF in the transmission from dipstick

    start engine and drain ATF in container once again to 2 litres and stop engine

    fill 2 litres of ATF.

    you will now be seeing clean ATF being pumped into the drain container, this means that all the old ATF in the torque converter is now replaced with clean ATF.

    connect the cooler line back to the radiator and check ATF level - make sure its at lower cool level with engine idling in Park.

    Drive the car and test all ratios - drive again for 30 minutes and test ATF level once again when warm.


    you have to do this drain procedure on a hot transmission (driven for about 30 minutes at speed to fully warm up the ATF)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xulfiqar View Post
    The gearbox takes about 7 litres of ATF, the 2.5 litres of ATF that comes out from the drain nut is just the reserve in the sump that is cast into the case. About 3.5 litres is in the torque converter and about a litre is trapped in the valve body etc.

    To take it out easily from the cooler line - find a clear container and mark it in litres.

    remove dipstick from transmission case

    remove both lines from transmission cooler in radiator (start engine and find out which one pumps ATF) - put that in the container.

    start engine and let it drain ATF into the container to 2 litres and stop engine

    fill 2 litres ATF in the transmission from the dipstick

    start engine and drain ATF into container again to 2 litres and stop engine

    fill 2 litres of ATF in the transmission from dipstick

    start engine and drain ATF in container once again to 2 litres and stop engine

    fill 2 litres of ATF.

    you will now be seeing clean ATF being pumped into the drain container, this means that all the old ATF in the torque converter is now replaced with clean ATF.

    connect the cooler line back to the radiator and check ATF level - make sure its at lower cool level with engine idling in Park.

    Drive the car and test all ratios - drive again for 30 minutes and test ATF level once again when warm.


    you have to do this drain procedure on a hot transmission (driven for about 30 minutes at speed to fully warm up the ATF)
    @Xulfiqar

    Thank you very much for details.

    Is this flush is recommended at every atf change?
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    @Xulfiqar

    Can it be fine that first drain atf from trans by opening the trans nut and add required atf to trans and then drain the atf from cooler lines and then add atf until fresh atf can be seen in bucket and in last, level the atf according to mark. Is this method is fine?
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    Quote Originally Posted by galant1 View Post
    @Xulfiqar

    Can it be fine that first drain atf from trans by opening the trans nut and add required atf to trans and then drain the atf from cooler lines and then add atf until fresh atf can be seen in bucket and in last, level the atf according to mark. Is this method is fine?
    yes that also is good, I wrote you the 2 litre way because its your first attempt at it. Better be safe.
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    Quote Originally Posted by galant1 View Post
    @Xulfiqar

    Thank you very much for details.

    Is this flush is recommended at every atf change?
    Thats the way I usually do it. It gets all the worn out ATF.
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