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Thread: Civic Reborn ATF change Help Required

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    Default Civic Reborn ATF change Help Required

    Dear All,
    I would be grateful if you can give me advice/suggestions on the following problem
    I have a 2010 civic reborn with a mileage of 100k, the car has been regularly maintained from Honda with all the fluids changed on time. With its age my car has developed one very annoying little problem, it vibrates on light throttle between the speed of 20-40, the amount of vibration varies randomly. I had the car checked at Honda City Sales and they diagnosed it to be a fault with the transmission and recommended a transmission overhaul. I had the ATF changed 15,000 kms ago but I changed it again and the problem was solved for a few weeks.
    After about 2 weeks, the same problem has re emerged, although the amount of vibration has decreased but it is still there and can be felt.
    I discussed the problem with another Honda technician and also read the blogs of 8th gen civic. Apparently this problem is fairly common in this model and the problem occurs when solenoids are clogged and are not able to distribute the ATF evenly at low throttle.
    According to the forum and the 2nd Honda technician the problem can be resolved by changing the transmission oil 3-4 times after short intervals which would effectively clean the transmission. Honda does not recommend a transmission flush so the frequent oil changes would effectively clean it.

    To perform this procedure I need clarifications:
    1) Which ATF should I use? I have heard that AMSOIL ATF is better but the problem is my car currently has Honda ATF in it and as I cannot flush the previous ATF, so in order to use AMSOIL I would effectively be mixing it with the Honda ATF in the transmission, will that be safe for my transmission?
    2) I also read somewhere Honda has a transmission filter and changing ATF without the filter can be useless, therefore should I change the filter, as Honda terms it as a non replaceable part. If I should change the filter can anyone please recommend a workshop where it can be done and from where can the filter be bought?
    3) The last but the most important, by doing ether or both of the above can be problem be solved?

    I know it is very long query but I wanted to describe the situation as best as I could, I would be grateful for inputs in this matter.

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    @Xulfiqar

    Ok one more thing during flushing either car is at Park (P) or in Drive (D4) mode?

    Also I am still in confusion in choosing the right atf- either I opt out ZIC DEX V1 Hi Tech Lubricants Limited or ZIC Dexron iii Hi Tech Lubricants Limited

    Please help me out for choosing right atf. Again Thanks
    Engineer + Car's Passion = Enthusiastic Personality.

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    do it with engine idling in P.

    use the ZIC-III ATF.

    I wonder why ZIC are selling the Dex VI ATF in Pakistan when there are no GM cars in Pakistan.
    ZRS - Zulfiqar Racing Systems ..... - professionals at work - at crackwheels.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xulfiqar View Post
    do it with engine idling in P.

    use the ZIC-III ATF.

    I wonder why ZIC are selling the Dex VI ATF in Pakistan when there are no GM cars in Pakistan.
    @Xulfiqar

    Very expensive flushing technique but has worth.

    Is it necessary to clean shift solenoids? What is the importance of cleaning of shift solenoid ?
    Engineer + Car's Passion = Enthusiastic Personality.

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    expensive?

    Its plain regular dexron III ATF..

    your car does not have shifting solenoids. The later ones do, to clean them just unbolt them and clean out their little screens.
    ZRS - Zulfiqar Racing Systems ..... - professionals at work - at crackwheels.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xulfiqar View Post
    expensive?

    Its plain regular dexron III ATF..

    your car does not have shifting solenoids. The later ones do, to clean them just unbolt them and clean out their little screens.
    @Xulfiqar

    I have seen two 2 solenoids on transmission connected to engine wiring which is connected to ecu as I remember.

    What is main function and purpose of these solenoids?

    Is there any need of cleaning them?
    Engineer + Car's Passion = Enthusiastic Personality.

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    they are the lockup solenoids, they dont get dirty unless you were running mud in the transmission
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xulfiqar View Post
    they are the lockup solenoids, they dont get dirty unless you were running mud in the transmission
    @Xulfiqar

    Okay its mean that these 2 solenoids are not shifting solenoids.

    1. What are these lockup solenoids?

    2. What are the functions of these lockup solenoids?

    3. Why these lockup solenoids connected to ecu via engine wiring?
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    they control the torque converter clutch lockup. Controlling them from the ECU is best for smoothness of engagement.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xulfiqar View Post
    they control the torque converter clutch lockup. Controlling them from the ECU is best for smoothness of engagement.
    @Xulfiqar

    What "they control the torque converter clutch lockup. Controlling them from the ECU is best for smoothness of engagement"?

    But you said transmission in my car is hydrolic type not electronic controlled?

    Now you said look up soleniods is controlled by ecu? How?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xulfiqar View Post
    buy 7 liters and change out all the ATF from the cooler line, the new civic uses dw1 as it provides extreme slushy shifts (its programmed to use it) Z-1 has a bit more "friction" meaning it catches faster than DW1.

    The 2.4 or 3 litres that you remove from the drain bolt is the residual in in the case, the other half of it is stuck in the torque converter and accumulator pistons. Cooler line pumping removes all nearly all ATF

    Do you think DW1 gives slushy shifts at the cost of clutch wear in longer run due to more slippage as compared with ATF with "more friction"?

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    Quote Originally Posted by galant1 View Post
    @Xulfiqar

    What "they control the torque converter clutch lockup. Controlling them from the ECU is best for smoothness of engagement"?

    But you said transmission in my car is hydrolic type not electronic controlled?

    Now you said look up soleniods is controlled by ecu? How?

    The lockup only happens after the last ratio of the transmission has achieved and the engine applied load lowers, To save fuel the torque converter turbine and impeller will lock to rotate as one piece.. It cannot apply suddenly as the transmission will jerk hard doing that. It has to be done in 2 stages. Thats where the two solenoids come into play. To smoothly apply the torque converter clutch.

    Your transmission does its three shifts solely on the speed governor opening up the shift gates for each ratio and fighting the kickdown cable pressure to target the apply/exhaust of each ratio.

    Yes - your transmission still is called hydraulic controlled. The honda electric shift transmission is called "prosmatec" in Pakistan. It has no kickdown cable and no speed governor either and uses 2 on/off solenoids working as a pair to apply ratios
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shoaibm View Post
    Do you think DW1 gives slushy shifts at the cost of clutch wear in longer run due to more slippage as compared with ATF with "more friction"?
    by rule of thumb - yes, but clutch materials have changed overtime too. Some factors of cooling capacity and ATF reserve also come into play (they are pretty hopeless for honda automatics though)

    The clutches dont wear per se from the slip - the unit heats up due to that slipping. That heat is what gets you, throw in non serviceable filter and low reserve ATF.. The picture becomes pretty gloomy.
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    @Xulfiqar

    Okay what I have observed that there is slight jerk or you can say that something is pushing backward at 2nd gear and 3rd gear change at 3.5k or something between 3-3.5k rpm I think so. Some time I have press the gas paddle too much to reach at 3k rpm to move to 3rd gear. Why is it so?

    Also i am observing that when I put the car in R, car is very slight/little move or sometime not move and I have to press the gas paddle for moving the car in reverse. This issue arises when car is at hot and when I cold start, car is moving in Reverse (R) easily without pressing the gas paddle. Why is it so? Whereas in D4, car is moving fine.
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    Quote Originally Posted by galant1 View Post
    @Xulfiqar

    Okay what I have observed that there is slight jerk or you can say that something is pushing backward at 2nd gear and 3rd gear change at 3.5k or something between 3-3.5k rpm I think so. Some time I have press the gas paddle too much to reach at 3k rpm to move to 3rd gear. Why is it so?

    Also i am observing that when I put the car in R, car is very slight/little move or sometime not move and I have to press the gas paddle for moving the car in reverse. This issue arises when car is at hot and when I cold start, car is moving in Reverse (R) easily without pressing the gas paddle. Why is it so? Whereas in D4, car is moving fine.
    Auto choke , raised rpm on cold start

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    Quote Originally Posted by hornblower View Post
    Auto choke , raised rpm on cold start
    What do you mean by auto choke?

    rpm is fine and increased round about 1500 during cold start automatically and after some time as engine is going to achieve optimum temp, rpm come around 750-800 rpm. Also TB is clean recently with tps sensor adjustment to 0.5V at full TB Closed position.
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    @Xulfiqar

    Okay what I have observed that there is slight jerk or you can say that something is pushing back at 2nd gear and 3rd gear change at 3.5k rpm or something between 3-3.5k rpm I think so. Some time I have press the gas paddle too much to reach at 3k rpm to move to 3rd gear. Why is it so? Why jerk or why it fells like some thing pushing back when reaching at 2nd and 3rd gear?

    Also i am observing that when I put the car in R, car is very slight/little move or sometime not move and I have to press the gas paddle for moving the car in reverse. This issue arises when car is at hot and when I cold start, car is moving in Reverse (R) easily without pressing the gas paddle. Why is it so? Whereas in D4, car is moving fine.
    Engineer + Car's Passion = Enthusiastic Personality.

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    your post doesnt quite make sense.

    you say that you get drag behaviour on cold transmission at low rpm

    at the same time you say that you need to push the pedal further to shift to 3rd ratio - that is backwards, pushing the pedal further will induce kickdown and hold ratio longer - your trans wont shift till engine reaches a higher rpm.

    No creep in R when hot but good in D


    its quite vague honestly - but have you checked for binding brakes?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xulfiqar View Post
    your post doesnt quite make sense.

    you say that you get drag behaviour on cold transmission at low rpm

    at the same time you say that you need to push the pedal further to shift to 3rd ratio - that is backwards, pushing the pedal further will induce kickdown and hold ratio longer - your trans wont shift till engine reaches a higher rpm.

    No creep in R when hot but good in D


    its quite vague honestly - but have you checked for binding brakes?
    Once same happened to me in 2005 Civic Auto the car refused to shift in higher gears & engine revs to redline.
    It happened to be faulty engine Coils.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xulfiqar View Post
    your post doesnt quite make sense.

    you say that you get drag behaviour on cold transmission at low rpm

    at the same time you say that you need to push the pedal further to shift to 3rd ratio - that is backwards, pushing the pedal further will induce kickdown and hold ratio longer - your trans wont shift till engine reaches a higher rpm.

    No creep in R when hot but good in D


    its quite vague honestly - but have you checked for binding brakes?
    @Xulfiqar

    Ok now I can explain in simple way.

    1. Yes this is right that there is drag behavior on cold transmission at low rpm but its true for cold transmission only. But after reaching the temp, opposite thing happens-little slow and press the gas paddle to move on.

    2. Also there is little jerk when shifting to 2nd gear and to 3rd gear. Sometimes I have to press gas paddle to reach at 3rd gear because after 2nd gear its too sluggish to reach 3rd gear and hence need to press the gas paddle to reach 3rd gear. Why is it so? Why there is jerk?

    I hope now you understand my concern. Please help me on both points.
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    @Xulfiqar

    Ok now I can explain in simple way.

    1. Yes this is right that there is drag behavior on cold transmission at low rpm but its true for cold transmission only. But after reaching the temp, opposite thing happens-little slow and press the gas paddle to move on.

    2. Also there is little jerk when shifting to 2nd gear and to 3rd gear. Many times I have to press gas paddle to reach at 3rd gear because after 2nd gear its too sluggish to reach 3rd gear and hence need to press the gas paddle to reach 3rd gear. Why is it so-sluggish response to reach 3rd gear? Why there is jerk?

    I hope now you understand my concern. Please help me on both points.
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