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Thread: Civic Reborn ATF change Help Required

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    Default Civic Reborn ATF change Help Required

    Dear All,
    I would be grateful if you can give me advice/suggestions on the following problem
    I have a 2010 civic reborn with a mileage of 100k, the car has been regularly maintained from Honda with all the fluids changed on time. With its age my car has developed one very annoying little problem, it vibrates on light throttle between the speed of 20-40, the amount of vibration varies randomly. I had the car checked at Honda City Sales and they diagnosed it to be a fault with the transmission and recommended a transmission overhaul. I had the ATF changed 15,000 kms ago but I changed it again and the problem was solved for a few weeks.
    After about 2 weeks, the same problem has re emerged, although the amount of vibration has decreased but it is still there and can be felt.
    I discussed the problem with another Honda technician and also read the blogs of 8th gen civic. Apparently this problem is fairly common in this model and the problem occurs when solenoids are clogged and are not able to distribute the ATF evenly at low throttle.
    According to the forum and the 2nd Honda technician the problem can be resolved by changing the transmission oil 3-4 times after short intervals which would effectively clean the transmission. Honda does not recommend a transmission flush so the frequent oil changes would effectively clean it.

    To perform this procedure I need clarifications:
    1) Which ATF should I use? I have heard that AMSOIL ATF is better but the problem is my car currently has Honda ATF in it and as I cannot flush the previous ATF, so in order to use AMSOIL I would effectively be mixing it with the Honda ATF in the transmission, will that be safe for my transmission?
    2) I also read somewhere Honda has a transmission filter and changing ATF without the filter can be useless, therefore should I change the filter, as Honda terms it as a non replaceable part. If I should change the filter can anyone please recommend a workshop where it can be done and from where can the filter be bought?
    3) The last but the most important, by doing ether or both of the above can be problem be solved?

    I know it is very long query but I wanted to describe the situation as best as I could, I would be grateful for inputs in this matter.

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    is the ATF level correct?
    ZRS - Zulfiqar Racing Systems ..... - professionals at work - at crackwheels.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xulfiqar View Post
    is the ATF level correct?
    @Xulfiqar

    Yes atf level is correct. Why all these things happen that I told you in previous post? What is the root cause of such problems?
    Engineer + Car's Passion = Enthusiastic Personality.

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    transmission needs to be pressure tested, The reason that I asked for ATF level was because that it sounds like low ATF, It maybe due to blocked ATF filter too (which is a very stupid job on this transmission)

    The dragging at low temperature is mostly attributed to worn out ATF but the shift jerk is mostly due to a lack of ATF flow.
    ZRS - Zulfiqar Racing Systems ..... - professionals at work - at crackwheels.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by galant1 View Post
    @Xulfiqar

    Okay what I have observed that there is slight jerk or you can say that something is pushing back at 2nd gear and 3rd gear change at 3.5k rpm or something between 3-3.5k rpm I think so. Some time I have press the gas paddle too much to reach at 3k rpm to move to 3rd gear. Why is it so? Why jerk or why it fells like some thing pushing back when reaching at 2nd and 3rd gear?

    Also i am observing that when I put the car in R, car is very slight/little move or sometime not move and I have to press the gas paddle for moving the car in reverse. This issue arises when car is at hot and when I cold start, car is moving in Reverse (R) easily without pressing the gas paddle. Why is it so? Whereas in D4, car is moving fine.
    Don't know about the above situation

    But when cold car rpm is high thus moves without peddle

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xulfiqar View Post
    transmission needs to be pressure tested, The reason that I asked for ATF level was because that it sounds like low ATF, It maybe due to blocked ATF filter too (which is a very stupid job on this transmission)

    The dragging at low temperature is mostly attributed to worn out ATF but the shift jerk is mostly due to a lack of ATF flow.
    @Xulfiqar

    ATF level is fine checked it today. Also I observed the rpm at which gear shifting occurred.

    Gear shifting from 1st to 2nd gear is in between 2.6k and 2.7k.

    Gear shifting from 2nd to 3rd gear is at almost 3k rpm and rpm drops down to almost 1.5k rpm after shifting to 3rd gear.

    Shifting from 3rd gear to 4th gear is not observed due to rainy weather and irregular traffic situation.

    Now from above described situation, please tell me that shifting occurred at right rpm or not?
    Engineer + Car's Passion = Enthusiastic Personality.

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    shift rpm is dependant on engine load and throttle pressure cable adjustment.

    you say that your rpm drops from 3000 to 1500 rpm when shifting from 2nd to 3rd.. ???? - that is quite hard to believe unless

    1 - its shifting from 2nd to 4th and bypassing 3rd
    2 - you are completely unloading the accelerator pedal which is causing it to coast - hence you are not able to judge shift.

    you can test it by shifting to D3 - it will only shift 1~2~3 (sprag removed)
    ZRS - Zulfiqar Racing Systems ..... - professionals at work - at crackwheels.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xulfiqar View Post
    shift rpm is dependant on engine load and throttle pressure cable adjustment.

    you say that your rpm drops from 3000 to 1500 rpm when shifting from 2nd to 3rd.. ???? - that is quite hard to believe unless

    1 - its shifting from 2nd to 4th and bypassing 3rd
    2 - you are completely unloading the accelerator pedal which is causing it to coast - hence you are not able to judge shift.

    you can test it by shifting to D3 - it will only shift 1~2~3 (sprag removed)
    @Xulfiqar

    I will check it also in d3 and update you. The engine load was at that time was heater on, music on and max times windscreen wiper on.

    Yes after shifting to 3rd gear, rpm drop down to 1.5k rpm.

    What do you think about shifting of gears at described rpm in previous post? Are gears shifting at right rpm?
    Engineer + Car's Passion = Enthusiastic Personality.

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    when you do the next test, do take note of accelerator position and vehicle speed also. by engine load I meant how far was the accelerator pushed (you - the driver are demanding the engine to work - aka engine load)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xulfiqar View Post
    when you do the next test, do take note of accelerator position and vehicle speed also. by engine load I meant how far was the accelerator pushed (you - the driver are demanding the engine to work - aka engine load)
    @Xulfiqar

    Okay, I am not harsh driver-not pressing too much gas paddle. Only pressed the paddle in steady way and I think I pressed the paddle to max 50% sometimes whereas many times I pressed the paddle to 30-35%

    What do you meant by accelerator position either you meant in terms of rpm or how much I pressed the gas paddle?

    What about this result:

    Gear shifting from 1st to 2nd gear is in between 2.6k and 2.7k.

    Gear shifting from 2nd to 3rd gear is at almost 3k rpm.
    Engineer + Car's Passion = Enthusiastic Personality.

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    Quote Originally Posted by galant1 View Post
    @Xulfiqar
    The matter is Z1 or DW1 is equivalent to dexron 3? the transmission model no in manual is "M4RA"
    Seriously?? 99 civic manual says this? Plz share pic of this manual , i would like to see this

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    accelerator pedal position input, vehicle speed in km/h and engine speed in rpm.

    these 3 items are used to measure transmission behaviour. at half throttle load the shifting occurs near 3000 rpm engine speed - you can also test the the transmission by going full power.

    on full accelerator position (100% press) the engine should rev to redline before the transmission shifts into the next ratio - it should shift strong and powerful with no flaring.

    The speeds would be pretty high.

    get someone to adjust the pressure cable on the transmission, it changes the shift points quite a lot, too loose and it will shift too early, too tight and it will shift too late.
    ZRS - Zulfiqar Racing Systems ..... - professionals at work - at crackwheels.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xulfiqar View Post
    accelerator pedal position input, vehicle speed in km/h and engine speed in rpm.

    these 3 items are used to measure transmission behaviour. at half throttle load the shifting occurs near 3000 rpm engine speed - you can also test the the transmission by going full power.

    on full accelerator position (100% press) the engine should rev to redline before the transmission shifts into the next ratio - it should shift strong and powerful with no flaring.

    The speeds would be pretty high.

    get someone to adjust the pressure cable on the transmission, it changes the shift points quite a lot, too loose and it will shift too early, too tight and it will shift too late.
    @Xulfiqar

    Okay when I will perform test, I will note these three parameters and surely update you. Let me confirm me that I have to check/note these three parameters at the time of shifting at each gear shifting?

    How can I check that pressure cable position is right? And how to adjust the pressure cable to default position?
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    @Xulfiqar

    Okay when I will perform test, I will note these three parameters and surely update you. Let me confirm me that I have to check/note these three parameters at the time of shifting at each gear shifting?

    How can I check that pressure cable position is right? And how to adjust the pressure cable to default position?
    Engineer + Car's Passion = Enthusiastic Personality.

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    @Xulfiqar

    Okay when I will perform test, I will note these three parameters and surely update you. Let me confirm me that I have to check/note these three parameters at the time of shifting at each gear shifting?

    How can I check that pressure cable position is right? And how to adjust the pressure cable to default position?
    Engineer + Car's Passion = Enthusiastic Personality.

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    @Xulfiqar

    Okay when I will perform test, I will note these three parameters and surely update you. Let me confirm me that I have to check/note these three parameters at the time of shifting at each gear shifting?

    How can I check that pressure cable position is right? And how to adjust the pressure cable to default position?
    Engineer + Car's Passion = Enthusiastic Personality.

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    Quote Originally Posted by galant1 View Post
    @Xulfiqar

    Okay when I will perform test, I will note these three parameters and surely update you. Let me confirm me that I have to check/note these three parameters at the time of shifting at each gear shifting?

    How can I check that pressure cable position is right? And how to adjust the pressure cable to default position?
    I recall its about 4mm or nearabouts play in the lever (not the cable) - best adjusted by driving.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xulfiqar View Post
    I recall its about 4mm or nearabouts play in the lever (not the cable) - best adjusted by driving.
    @Xulfiqar

    I can't understand fully, please tell me in detail, how to check and adjust the cable to default position and how can be adjusted by driving?
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    the pressure cable lever on the transmission is vertical operated and has a soft spring in it too, the play is tested from the lever taking up the slack, not the cable.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xulfiqar View Post
    the pressure cable lever on the transmission is vertical operated and has a soft spring in it too, the play is tested from the lever taking up the slack, not the cable.
    @Xulfiqar

    It is better to understand from pic for adjustment.
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    @Xulfiqar

    Today I perform test as per your suggestion. The speed values w.r.t rpm are:

    1st to 2nd gear shifting: Speed at shifting to 2nd gear is nearly 17-18 km/h at rpm nearly 2200-2300.

    2nd to 3rd gear shifting: Speed at shifting to 3rd gear is exactly 40km/h at rpm 2500 exactly.

    3rd to 4rth gear shifting: Speed at shifting to 4rth gear is exactly 45 km/h at rpm nearly 2200.

    These are the values that are taken after multiple times. Now what do you think about transmission behavior? Is this right behavior?
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