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Thread: Suggestion for Engine Replacement or build-up Civic Exi 2000 A/T

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    Default Suggestion for Engine Replacement or build-up Civic Exi 2000 A/T

    Dear Members,
    AOA,

    As mentioned in the subject my car engine has become weak and I need suggestion as to whether I should opt for a buildup or should I go for a swap. The engine in question is the original PK5V with auto transmission.

    Issues:
    1) Got the compression test done today, the results were 110, 110, 110 and 120 which I assume is not a healthy sign.
    2) Heavy on fuel giving me almost 5-6 Km/l with or W/O A/c doesn't make much of a difference
    3) Too much knocking even on Hi-octane (CNG haven't been used since last 6 months)
    4) The engine has lost its charm, no pick and feels heavy to drive .
    5) Transmission gives a slight jerk when shifted to D from N or from N to R but nothing can be felt when the gears change in D mode.

    Activities carried out so far
    Got all the sensors and electrical stuff checked, TPS had some problem, got it replaced. The Head assembly was replaced with Kabli one along with new radiator and hose pipes almost an year ago (reason overheating & blown gaskit) .

    I'm a total noob but tried getting some idea by going thru the threads and realized except for some Gurus, people mostly discuss which engine is faster or has more HPs. I'm not a racing freak rather I am more of an uncle type of driver with light foot and this car is my daily runner. Therefore looking forward to a solution which results in economy along with driving pleasure. Your valuable feedback will be highly appreciated.
    Secondly would also appreciate if someone can provide an estimate of buildup and swap as well.

    Thank You

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    Experts @Xulfiqar, @afnan can you guys suggest the best possible solution.

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    Oops compression results are very low... dry or wet? Lets wait for the experts to comment.

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    bro your fuel consumption is very high .have you checked the black smoke coming from exhaust pipe? i had d15b2 engine with same compression but it used to accelerate very better .... i think fuel consumption is directly related to your ecu (efi computer installed in your car for fuel injection behind the cd player). you must check

    have you installed thermostat. to check this when you start the car your temperature niddle remain at C for 5 minute or remain at C even after 15-20 minute?. as it leads the ecu into rich mode. optimum temperature at which your engine is when your niddle is at centre(68C some car 78C and some car 82 C)...

    you must ensure thermostat is installed in car

    let the expert to show their expertise

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    In my opinion for a swap with the same type engine ...dont change any thing like for going d15 vtec n so on....go for head assembly only ...n what ever parts u can salvage from this motor ...evn till the tappet head cover...n put on that engine swap...i also have 2000 model vti....b4 my cuzn had it blown its engine sky high with a 3rd stage turbo...cracked the block on last drag in peshawar...now i hv the car..had to replace the assembly with d15 vtec...but on head assembly cost around 10k...even tht price it was like a gem of an engine with a bikes engine swap...lolz...but my car is now stock n running greater then ever...only thing engine number which is not an issuse...as long as unr satisfied...spending money on an overhaul...bhai jaan done that to save that engine alot of tym but no use...once it open up....u n even the mechanics can figure out then wat to do...n the money fills up the pit....but output zero....n the car suffer with that n the tension build up...so go for clean swap...change cluch plate pressure plate with all the bearings n timming belt...mountings...n enjoy ur ride...hope that my mistakes would help u not to do urs....thx buddy

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    yeh baat to fact ha k engine overhaul hone k baad kam hi perfect hta ha ...iska credit jta ha mechanics ko... no proper tools n techniques desi totkay b lga dete hain... they dont use torque wrench for specific torque of tension

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    @searchingeyez
    Thanks for the advice bro, Yes the Thermostat Valve is installed and properly working. Fan is also on auto mode
    Don't know exactly if something is wrong with the ECU but I had recently got the car scanned and the only defected thing was TPS which was replaced.

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    Quote Originally Posted by seven View Post
    @searchingeyez
    Thanks for the advice bro, Yes the Thermostat Valve is installed and properly working. Fan is also on auto mode
    Don't know exactly if something is wrong with the ECU but I had recently got the car scanned and the only defected thing was TPS which was replaced.
    in older honda ecu is not so smart. it can not detect as air mixture is rich or lean because they dont have oxygen sensor ... if air fuel is to be checked properly u need to check through gas analyzer a machine . its probe goes into exhaust n detect carbon monoxide ,Co2 n oxygen thus good mechanic can detect whats gng in in air fuel mixture...

    if ur map sensor,ect sensor is not giving proper reading then check ngine will not throen n it can also lead to poor mileage.

    if injectors are leaking thrn it could also be a problem that lead to bad fuel mileage.

    however rich mixture give black smoke or black carbon deposits on spark plug . u can also check them by inspecting spark plugs...

    i hope ur prob will b solved ....

    if u go for engine swap make sure its compression before swapping although our ustaaad mechanic dont want to test it before installing the engine ciz they are v busy to hire another car ....

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    What??? An efi car cannot tell lean or rich mixture??? Why is it even called EFI then if it cannot adjust AFR electronically and automatically?

    Quote Originally Posted by searchingeyez View Post
    in older honda ecu is not so smart. it can not detect as air mixture is rich or lean because they dont have oxygen sensor ... if air fuel is to be checked properly u need to check through gas analyzer a machine . its probe goes into exhaust n detect carbon monoxide ,Co2 n oxygen thus good mechanic can detect whats gng in in air fuel mixture...

    if ur map sensor,ect sensor is not giving proper reading then check ngine will not throen n it can also lead to poor mileage.

    if injectors are leaking thrn it could also be a problem that lead to bad fuel mileage.

    however rich mixture give black smoke or black carbon deposits on spark plug . u can also check them by inspecting spark plugs...

    i hope ur prob will b solved ....

    if u go for engine swap make sure its compression before swapping although our ustaaad mechanic dont want to test it before installing the engine ciz they are v busy to hire another car ....

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    Quote Originally Posted by siraj_7 View Post
    What??? An efi car cannot tell lean or rich mixture??? Why is it even called EFI then if it cannot adjust AFR electronically and automatically?
    check under your hood is there any sensor going to exhaust? if it is your car can detect lean or rich otherwise pakistani older civic comes with the IMA a trim pot which is statically set to some voltage for a air fuel mixture .it can not provide real time data. once IMA is adjusted from gas analyzer the same mixture will run throughout whether climate changes or what happnd btw car have map sensor n iat sensor to judge air temp n air pressure to map fuel in paki older civic

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    Anyways its shocking to learn this....I wouldn't consider a car EFI if it cannot adjust the Air Fuel Ratio realtime according to the surrounding conditions...

    Quote Originally Posted by searchingeyez View Post
    check under your hood is there any sensor going to exhaust? if it is your car can detect lean or rich otherwise pakistani older civic comes with the IMA a trim pot which is statically set to some voltage for a air fuel mixture .it can not provide real time data. once IMA is adjusted from gas analyzer the same mixture will run throughout whether climate changes or what happnd btw car have map sensor n iat sensor to judge air temp n air pressure to map fuel in paki older civic

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    Quote Originally Posted by siraj_7 View Post
    Anyways its shocking to learn this....I wouldn't consider a car EFI if it cannot adjust the Air Fuel Ratio realtime according to the surrounding conditions...
    there are types of fuel injection real time efi like new cars in pakistan is capable of sensing data of air fuel mixture .. like civic reborn ,new xli gli , and many others they r capable of sensing fuel air mixture ratio...however older fuel injection in civic ,city is depend on mapped table in ecu ... fuel injection is mapped through IMA sensor tp sensor ect sensor n iac valve n map sensor(highly important sensor) data

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    Anyways I have seen 100 to 200 dollar worth of gadgets to set AFR to 14.7:1 in a carby car by putting an oxygen sensor in exhaust and then taking reading on a meter, carb is adjusted until the meter gives reading of 14.7:1 on low and high revs, its impossible to set it exactly but somewhat possible to come close to this ratio in carby cars, however in efis, under all conditions, the ECU tweaks everything under its control in real time to maintain this ratio.


    Quote Originally Posted by searchingeyez View Post
    there are types of fuel injection real time efi like new cars in pakistan is capable of sensing data of air fuel mixture .. like civic reborn ,new xli gli , and many others they r capable of sensing fuel air mixture ratio...

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    Quote Originally Posted by siraj_7 View Post
    Anyways I have seen 100 to 200 dollar worth of gadgets to set AFR to 14.7:1 in a carby car by putting an oxygen sensor in exhaust and then taking reading on a meter, carb is adjusted until the meter gives reading of 14.7:1 on low and high revs, its impossible to set it exactly but somewhat possible to come close to this ratio in carby cars, however in efis, under all conditions, the ECU tweaks everything under its control in real time to maintain this ratio.
    yeahhh thats the point . afr is 14.7:1 is ideal... modern car has oxygen sensor that can sense if mixture ia going rich or lean .according to this data ecu then trim or increase fuel injection cycle to make the mixture 14.7:1

    in city n civic 2000 the ima is set to that position at which gas analyzer detect co <= 1%

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    Guys thank you for your input. Got the car checked by 2-3 different mechanics and even after some minor tweaks and all, the final verdict of these mechanics was that the engine is weak, although they said if you want you can drive the car as you are driving till the engine dies out. One of the them suggested me to swap the engine with D15B non vtec as he said it will be bolt on with no alteration even for wiring, the cost of the engine + tranny he quoted was Rs. 55,000 along with my old engine.
    So, is this a good option or should I go to the market myself and try to break a deal with dealers.
    Not to mention that overhaul is still an option. I saw a thread on PW where someone from FSB got his VTI engine overhauled and is quiet satisfied with the performance. So kinda confused what to do.

    I know its kind of irritating, but experts your guidance will be highly appreciated. And if someone can suggest a good trusted mechanic that will be bonus. Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by seven View Post
    Guys thank you for your input. Got the car checked by 2-3 different mechanics and even after some minor tweaks and all, the final verdict of these mechanics was that the engine is weak, although they said if you want you can drive the car as you are driving till the engine dies out. One of the them suggested me to swap the engine with D15B non vtec as he said it will be bolt on with no alteration even for wiring, the cost of the engine + tranny he quoted was Rs. 55,000 along with my old engine.
    So, is this a good option or should I go to the market myself and try to break a deal with dealers.
    Not to mention that overhaul is still an option. I saw a thread on PW where someone from FSB got his VTI engine overhauled and is quiet satisfied with the performance. So kinda confused what to do.

    I know its kind of irritating, but experts your guidance will be highly appreciated. And if someone can suggest a good trusted mechanic that will be bonus. Thanks
    i bought 1.4 engine which price is same as 1.5 but conditon was untouch ... i bought it for 32k .. didnt swapped ecu ..complete engine except compressor and tranny

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