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Thread: Honda's are not reliable?

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    Default Honda's are not reliable?

    Well only in Pakistan we hear more complains .....
    This odo is of a very good friends car in canada
    2002 civic. Sealed engine. Still going strong

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    Life is short and very unpredictable just like a Quarter mile .....

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    I'd say they are just not enough lakar hazam and tikao and cheap to maintain as compared to a Mehran and a xli.

    They are a bit more technical as compared to other simpler cars avaliable in market.

    Just like vario city failed. But everyone is drooling over cvt corolla and turbo civic.
    Get over the fact that Xli lacks power windows, Its an Xli because it lacks thoose features or else it would be a Gli or an Altis if had all the goodies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xulfiqar View Post
    have you seen american built hondas personally on a broken down level?
    No i haven't. I was not specifically talking about American cars but yes the imported cars we are getting here in Pakistan from different parts of the world are far more superior in built quality and that's one of the prime reason why people attracted towards them.....from every single screw and door panel clip to the major parts like suspension they are better than Pakistani manufactured cars.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zish79 View Post
    No i haven't. I was not specifically talking about American cars but yes the imported cars we are getting here in Pakistan from different parts of the world are far more superior in built quality and that's one of the prime reason why people attracted towards them.....from every single screw and door panel clip to the major parts like suspension they are better than Pakistani manufactured cars.....
    Only Japanese cars are better built. Other Asian cars coming from Thailand Indonesia are more or less of similar quality
    Get over the fact that Xli lacks power windows, Its an Xli because it lacks thoose features or else it would be a Gli or an Altis if had all the goodies.

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    @chinyotiAgreed. I'm driving a Pakistani reborn 2012 and same shaped Japanese Hybrid on alternate basis. I must say there is a world of difference between the quality of these two variants. Japanese level of finishing and comfort is far too superior in every respect.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zish79 View Post
    No i haven't. I was not specifically talking about American cars but yes the imported cars we are getting here in Pakistan from different parts of the world are far more superior in built quality and that's one of the prime reason why people attracted towards them.....from every single screw and door panel clip to the major parts like suspension they are better than Pakistani manufactured cars.....

    The Pakistani and Japanese Hondas use better plastics, the thailand ones are rattly like the british ones, the north american versions feel like recycled melamine dinner plates, they warp, crack and rattle and chip off when being removed. Those cars are not even painted correctly either.

    the reason you see higher mileage cars being run globally except Pakistan is the "sastaa aur mayaari" mindset that people have, they would use extremely poor engine oil and run the car dead cold for centuries along with oil leaks, water for coolant, nitto taped wirings and cut screw fasteners because its "sastaa" and "chalti ka naam gaari"

    e.g. in USA a mechanic wont do less than quality work as he has to give a work warranty - so no used parts are allowed anything bad or worn is replaced at customer expense - lets take axle work from Shah-jee axle in Karachi compared to work from joe shmoe shop in USA.

    shahjee axles will sell you a cobbled together axle with mash potato grease and junk rubber boot which will cause early death of 2 years at max and you pay again. same job in USA/Canada will mean a proper rebuilder has extruded the axle cup and installed a new spider cage along with new balls, filled with CVJ grease and using the correct boot - this axle is not cheap, the mechanic will not repair your car if you bring your own junkyard axle or home built axle, as he cannot warrant his work.

    ^^ Proper repairs last longer

    lets take case of checking headgasket - people just open the radiator cap and see some bubbles and for them it automatically means - headgasket gai kaam se - and then the usual stupid "head phase" - which is actually called head facing is done with super rough stone cut, that too multiple times and then the head is tightened down with "haath ka andaaza" torque wrench.

    ^^ - this repair does not last and eventually junks the engine, then you line up at "assembly swap" line from babloo ustaad - so your civic may never cross 200,000 kms.. let alone double that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xulfiqar View Post
    The Pakistani and Japanese Hondas use better plastics, the thailand ones are rattly like the british ones, the north american versions feel like recycled melamine dinner plates, they warp, crack and rattle and chip off when being removed. Those cars are not even painted correctly either.

    the reason you see higher mileage cars being run globally except Pakistan is the "sastaa aur mayaari" mindset that people have, they would use extremely poor engine oil and run the car dead cold for centuries along with oil leaks, water for coolant, nitto taped wirings and cut screw fasteners because its "sastaa" and "chalti ka naam gaari"

    e.g. in USA a mechanic wont do less than quality work as he has to give a work warranty - so no used parts are allowed anything bad or worn is replaced at customer expense - lets take axle work from Shah-jee axle in Karachi compared to work from joe shmoe shop in USA.

    shahjee axles will sell you a cobbled together axle with mash potato grease and junk rubber boot which will cause early death of 2 years at max and you pay again. same job in USA/Canada will mean a proper rebuilder has extruded the axle cup and installed a new spider cage along with new balls, filled with CVJ grease and using the correct boot - this axle is not cheap, the mechanic will not repair your car if you bring your own junkyard axle or home built axle, as he cannot warrant his work.

    ^^ Proper repairs last longer

    lets take case of checking headgasket - people just open the radiator cap and see some bubbles and for them it automatically means - headgasket gai kaam se - and then the usual stupid "head phase" - which is actually called head facing is done with super rough stone cut, that too multiple times and then the head is tightened down with "haath ka andaaza" torque wrench.

    ^^ - this repair does not last and eventually junks the engine, then you line up at "assembly swap" line from babloo ustaad - so your civic may never cross 200,000 kms.. let alone double that.
    Pakistani plastics are better......really??....i have heard it from someone for the very first time....Auto parts built quality decreases globally and unfortunately this happens badly in Pakistan, understanding this isnt require anybody to be so technical...everybody can see it very easily....lets look at the attached below picture here..this is 2012 Civic reborn with only 34K km done (genuine) that also very carefully...nothing had been hit nor abused whatsoever and these two crack emerges from nowhere....this is my car...i am sharing this here because i have seen so many other Reborns in which same pattern of cracks found on DVD consoles and all of them like " we dont know where they come from"....why is that so??.....poor quality as a result of what??...." COST CUTTING" and there are so may other similar kind of examples around us....

    I have used 1999 and 2004 civics previously.....just compare even their dashboard quality and u could realize what i am trying to say....the quality of 2004 civics dashboard is far more good in quality than Reborn plastic one....why??....." COST CUTTING".......

    Rest all u said about mechanics is totally a different story.....my point is related to manufacturing not the maintenance...and for maintenance u r right like i said proper maintenance is necessary to keep ur vehicle upto par.......Hondas are not reliable? -1703754Hondas are not reliable? -1703755

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    every advancement and development is done for cutting down cost - even to the last penny and even for a saving a few seconds on the assembly line.

    now for plastic comparison - made easy for you.

    in USA models the plastics on 1999 model was as bad as new 2015 civic in Pakistan - You can imagine what quality it would be now. Its not just Honda, its literally all american cars - even cadillacs
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xulfiqar View Post
    every advancement and development is done for cutting down cost - even to the last penny and even for a saving a few seconds on the assembly line.

    now for plastic comparison - made easy for you.

    in USA models the plastics on 1999 model was as bad as new 2015 civic in Pakistan - You can imagine what quality it would be now. Its not just Honda, its literally all american cars - even cadillacs
    Very True....cost cutting for advancement and development but not putting your quality on sake....unfortunately here in Pakistan manufacturers are striving not for quality but for more and more profit as a result of which costumers are not getting what they are paying of.....each year they increases the price of their new cars by decreasing the quality...imagine the new model of Civic is now 30 lac and i have already seen a thread of this new civic assembly faults (i think here on PW)...

    I dont know about America coz i havn't dealt with USA made cars...if they are doing so they are also wrong...but atleast Japan is doing fair with its customers....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zish79 View Post
    Very True....cost cutting for advancement and development but not putting your quality on sake....unfortunately here in Pakistan manufacturers are striving not for quality but for more and more profit as a result of which costumers are not getting what they are paying of.....each year they increases the price of their new cars by decreasing the quality...imagine the new model of Civic is now 30 lac and i have already seen a thread of this new civic assembly faults (i think here on PW)...

    I dont know about America coz i havn't dealt with USA made cars...if they are doing so they are also wrong...but atleast Japan is doing fair with its customers....
    selling cars is a "for profit" business - and planned obsolescence is a concept that is very much hallowed now, a manufacturer can only survive if there are lots and lots of sales, in other words the manufacturer wants you to buy their new car every 4 years, thats how they will make profits.

    If you want a longer lasting vehicle then you have to look at the more expensive brand names as their build quality and parts supply system is great and is made for such customer who wants a longer lasting vehicle - the 90% of the customer base is the usual, buy - drive and throw away lineup.

    You are assuming Japan is doing far with customers, and you are mistaken because they are the core of the buy, dispose, buy type business.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xulfiqar View Post
    selling cars is a "for profit" business - and planned obsolescence is a concept that is very much hallowed now, a manufacturer can only survive if there are lots and lots of sales, in other words the manufacturer wants you to buy their new car every 4 years, thats how they will make profits.

    If you want a longer lasting vehicle then you have to look at the more expensive brand names as their build quality and parts supply system is great and is made for such customer who wants a longer lasting vehicle - the 90% of the customer base is the usual, buy - drive and throw away lineup.

    You are assuming Japan is doing far with customers, and you are mistaken because they are the core of the buy, dispose, buy type business.
    Very true!

    We often confuse the notions of durability and reliability.

    While reliabilty is not getting stranded on the road; durability is what makes the car outlast you yourself!

    German cars are durable while Japaneses are reliable in the short run.


    \\\AMG

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xulfiqar View Post
    selling cars is a "for profit" business - and planned obsolescence is a concept that is very much hallowed now, a manufacturer can only survive if there are lots and lots of sales, in other words the manufacturer wants you to buy their new car every 4 years, thats how they will make profits.

    If you want a longer lasting vehicle then you have to look at the more expensive brand names as their build quality and parts supply system is great and is made for such customer who wants a longer lasting vehicle - the 90% of the customer base is the usual, buy - drive and throw away lineup.

    You are assuming Japan is doing far with customers, and you are mistaken because they are the core of the buy, dispose, buy type business.
    Bhai my debate is not for long lasting cars...the problem is that these days customers are not getting what they are paying of and more of that customers dont know the worth of their money...who in the world agreed to pay 30 lac for only 4 years???.....people are still paying more than 11 lac for third class cultus....the window handle knob of cultus is more pathetic than a material used in children toys...in less than a year you start hearing the rattling of whole cabin inside....Japan is doing fair with customers doesnt mean that they are making cars of 20 years...u understood that very wrong....my point is they are giving a worthy product to the customer weather it lasts for a year or 20 its equivalent to the money they are getting....thats what not happening here in Pakistan....

    Imagine Japanese disposed off cars aged 4 years are still better than Pakistani 4 years cars......

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zish79 View Post
    Bhai my debate is not for long lasting cars...the problem is that these days customers are not getting what they are paying of and more of that customers dont know the worth of their money...who in the world agreed to pay 30 lac for only 4 years???.....people are still paying more than 11 lac for third class cultus....the window handle knob of cultus is more pathetic than a material used in children toys...in less than a year you start hearing the rattling of whole cabin inside....Japan is doing fair with customers doesnt mean that they are making cars of 20 years...u understood that very wrong....my point is they are giving a worthy product to the customer weather it lasts for a year or 20 its equivalent to the money they are getting....thats what not happening here in Pakistan....

    Imagine Japanese disposed off cars aged 4 years are still better than Pakistani 4 years cars......
    you are now pulling in inflation and monetary value issues - the problem is that the Pakistan rupee is garbage and the cars you are buying are traded in JPY or USD and Pakistan still treats cars like luxuries because the customs tarrif are still stuck in pre-partition times of the raj, where these extreme high duties were applied to prevent everything other than British machinery to be imported (Britain was local kheti at that time)

    you are complaining that your roti is getting smaller while forgetting that the exchange value of the currency with which to buy that roti is very low now.

    to remedy this - you can either build a completely Pakistani origin car - that way you can make its price stable OR revise the customs tarrifs.

    Do not compare used japanese auction cars to new cars in Pakistan. If you do that then I can show you S class benz for less than 1/3rd their original price and only 4 years old, and they have a build quality 100 times better than your average japanese ecobox car, when those cars land at KPT, Shahnawaz Ltd are hired to value it and they apply whatever price they want (because Pakistan mein laal wale quaid-e-azam ka raaj hai). So no matter if I buy it for 20K USD, they will value it at 70K USD and I would have to pay duties on 70K USD..


    KAISA?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Xulfiqar View Post
    you are now pulling in inflation and monetary value issues - the problem is that the Pakistan rupee is garbage and the cars you are buying are traded in JPY or USD and Pakistan still treats cars like luxuries because the customs tarrif are still stuck in pre-partition times of the raj, where these extreme high duties were applied to prevent everything other than British machinery to be imported (Britain was local kheti at that time)

    you are complaining that your roti is getting smaller while forgetting that the exchange value of the currency with which to buy that roti is very low now.

    to remedy this - you can either build a completely Pakistani origin car - that way you can make its price stable OR revise the customs tarrifs.

    Do not compare used japanese auction cars to new cars in Pakistan. If you do that then I can show you S class benz for less than 1/3rd their original price and only 4 years old, and they have a build quality 100 times better than your average japanese ecobox car, when those cars land at KPT, Shahnawaz Ltd are hired to value it and they apply whatever price they want (because Pakistan mein laal wale quaid-e-azam ka raaj hai). So no matter if I buy it for 20K USD, they will value it at 70K USD and I would have to pay duties on 70K USD..


    KAISA?


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    More like Pakistan se zinda bhaag!


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    Quote Originally Posted by Xulfiqar View Post
    you are now pulling in inflation and monetary value issues - the problem is that the Pakistan rupee is garbage and the cars you are buying are traded in JPY or USD and Pakistan still treats cars like luxuries because the customs tarrif are still stuck in pre-partition times of the raj, where these extreme high duties were applied to prevent everything other than British machinery to be imported (Britain was local kheti at that time)

    you are complaining that your roti is getting smaller while forgetting that the exchange value of the currency with which to buy that roti is very low now.

    to remedy this - you can either build a completely Pakistani origin car - that way you can make its price stable OR revise the customs tarrifs.

    Do not compare used japanese auction cars to new cars in Pakistan. If you do that then I can show you S class benz for less than 1/3rd their original price and only 4 years old, and they have a build quality 100 times better than your average japanese ecobox car, when those cars land at KPT, Shahnawaz Ltd are hired to value it and they apply whatever price they want (because Pakistan mein laal wale quaid-e-azam ka raaj hai). So no matter if I buy it for 20K USD, they will value it at 70K USD and I would have to pay duties on 70K USD..


    KAISA?


    andher nagri aur chaupat raaj - Pakistan zindabad.
    Pulling it now??.....please read my posts again..from the very first post of mine I stick to my point of view that Pakistani Auto mobile industry is not doing justice with the customers...showed and discuss the examples too but still if you think em wrong then its your point of view not mine...i still believe what i am saying is correct...you live with your opinion and and me with mine....no offence....signing off now...just chill...

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    I have a Mehran 2005 model. I'm using Shell HX5 10w-40 from Day 1. I've driven my car to 3 lakh kilometer and my car's engine is still sealed and silencer and spark plugs are as brown as a Efi car. My mechanics says that your car's engine will last 10 more years easily. Engine is still soundless like a 2016 Mehran. Main reason behind this is... I always change Engine oil at 3000km although HX5 recommends 4000km
    Don't take life too seriously, you'll never get out of it alive.

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    I had a accord 1999 4cyl having 680k kms on odometer in canada. Yet still dry compression values of all 4 cylinders were 170psi. No major replacements except usual water pump, radiator, brake rotors and ac compressor.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Xulfiqar View Post
    every advancement and development is done for cutting down cost - even to the last penny and even for a saving a few seconds on the assembly line.

    now for plastic comparison - made easy for you.

    in USA models the plastics on 1999 model was as bad as new 2015 civic in Pakistan - You can imagine what quality it would be now. Its not just Honda, its literally all american cars - even cadillacs
    not true at all !!!!
    I live here and see a hell of difference in even plastic.
    I have honda in pak, honda here as well. as described above in some' ones post. hell of difference. not same at all by any means.
    PLUS

    Here, many honda's have not seen a mechanic at all in all their age.

    What you say now ???

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    Sorry, not agreed at all.
    Coz in pakistan, my civic breaks down even with using new parts,
    In canada, honda hardly goes to mechanic.

    max pakistanic VTI suspension goes 40k km, and here it smoothly runs for over 300k without having to change any suspension part.

    So many honda's here have not seen a mechanic at all in their ages. ( except for oil change and tyre change etc).

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    Surprised Not to see any single post about the poor quality of petrol in the market as one major (in my opinion....all you experts may differ) factor that reduces the life of engine and ultimately life of any car in Pakistan. I hope you all know that Pakistan is one of the only 10 countries in the whole world which allows the poor quality of petrol we get here and guess what, no one bothers about it and we are talking quality of plastics and all. Just my 2 cents.

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    Quote Originally Posted by buozier View Post
    not true at all !!!!
    I live here and see a hell of difference in even plastic.
    I have honda in pak, honda here as well. as described above in some' ones post. hell of difference. not same at all by any means.
    PLUS

    Here, many honda's have not seen a mechanic at all in all their age.

    What you say now ???
    Quote Originally Posted by buozier View Post
    Sorry, not agreed at all.
    Coz in pakistan, my civic breaks down even with using new parts,
    In canada, honda hardly goes to mechanic.

    max pakistanic VTI suspension goes 40k km, and here it smoothly runs for over 300k without having to change any suspension part.

    So many honda's here have not seen a mechanic at all in their ages. ( except for oil change and tyre change etc).

    I wrote after I personally took them apart for repairs - yes they do break down and most reason they dont go to mechanics is because most civics and accords are owned by students or people who can only afford them on financing. Meaning - they only do breakdown maintenance or when the inspection station makes the car illegal to be driven on the road. The so many hondas that dont see mechanics in their life are the same ones that go from owner to scrapyard in one straight shot. Lots of them loaded in pick and pulls and crushing yards everyday.

    It doesnt mean that those cars are awesome, if thats the case then the old 2 stroke suzuki pickups in Pakistan are 50 times better than these hondas.

    The reason your honda doesnt break down in USA or Canada with new parts is because the mechanic has to do a good job to provide a warranty for his work - he/she has to follow best practices to achieve that. In Pakistan there is no warranty - so the mechanic cannot be even held responsible for leaving out a few bolts. Then you get the line-up at spraying the suspension and engine with used engine oil or diesel fuel.. further destroying it to oblivion and then "onda nazuk gaddi aye"

    think of it - Subarus are tough as volcanic rock - yet they failed in Pakistan.. - its a different chapter.


    back to plastics - do open up a civic in USA remove its dashboard and pillar trims and then do that in Pakistan (I have done both) - the difference is pretty obvious if you have been doing this a lot.
    ZRS - Zulfiqar Racing Systems ..... - professionals at work - at crackwheels.com

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