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Thread: Help: Car not starting civic 05 MT

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    Default Help: Car not starting civic 05 MT

    Last night i came from rawalpindi to islamabad. I stopped at a market to buy some groceries. When i came back, the car just wont start. I tried both on petrol and cng but to no avail. The CEL also came up after couple of cranking attempts and i could hear a poof (sputter) like sound coming out of silencer once or twice while cranking. I also removed the battery and plugged again but same results.

    The car was on slope so i put it in gear and slightly moved the car with clutch engaged. Then again tried to crank the car, it started for a second or two and then again died. Afterwards same issue as above.

    I then let it catch a little speed on incline and started the car through gear. The engine started but even with full accelerator, the rpm wont go above 1700. The engine sound was weak and clearly had no power at all. I slowly drove it to a nearby mechanic in first/second gear (5mins distance) and when we opened the hood the exhaust manifold was glowing red (not too bright though). He told me there is some electrical problem so we called an electrician from adjacent shop (ustaad g was out so a shagird came).

    He removed battery and shorted car positive and negative wire. I told him this will delete the error code so first read through scanner but you know how our mechanics are. Anyway the battery was plugged back in and we took the car for a test drive, it all seemed fine (we drove it for 15mins).

    When we came back, ustad g also had arrived so i explained him the situation, he too scolded the other guy for resetting the ecu codes. I insisted we had to find the reason for it so it wont happen again, he started the car and attached his snap-on scanner. There were no unusual readings (according to him, i don't know what are the normal readings e.g timing advance % or pressure etc).

    While the car was running, he moved the wiring near advancer and MAP and the car idle would go rough. He unplugged the MAP sensor connector and soon same situation was achieved. The error showing on scanner was something manifold air pressure circuit. He deduced that emulator is confusing the ecu (even though that part was advancer). He cut the wires (blue and yellow) coming from advancer and connected the blue and yellow directly. He said it is all fine now i have connected MAP directly to ECU so emulator cannot confuse the ECU with its own signals. If it was connected directly, shouldn't be the wire same coloured?

    He took a test drive and car seems fine, he told me that its fine now and you can go home there will be no issues on mileage or power of car, he also said no need to change emulator (mind you it was advancer wiring which caused engine to tremble). When i was driving the car, i could clearly feel that the power has reduced.

    When i reached home, i was obviously not satisfied because he could not give me a good reason to what had happened and his fix also did not seem satisfactory to me. I assumed that the wiring was loose because even after his fix, when i moved the harness from advancer the engine trembled again. So i decided to restore the wiring as it was before. I also removed both emulator and advancer connectors, blew air on em (to rule out dirty connections) and connected everything back in. Gave ecu a reset and fired up the engine. The engine fired up perfectly and there seemed no issues at all, while engine running i moved all sensor harnesses and connectors from emulator and advance but engine kept idling good. I kept it running for 20mins to observe but it was all normal. I was happy and took a good sleep

    Today in the morning, i started the car. Engine started smoothly and idled for like 3mins and soon after that the engine started trembling periodically for 2 3 times and then it died. I cranked it up for couple of times and same sputter from silencer could be heard. The engine just wont start. CEL came once but it did not stayed there and did not come up on next couple of cranks.

    What exactly is the issue, advancer has started malfunctioning? MAP sensor gone bad or what? The car is sitting there in garage and i cant even take it to a mechanic unless i call recovery truck :/ and after all this, i don't even know which mechanic to visit for such problem....
    Please go through the post and see what might be the problem and what are the possible solutions?
    @Xulfiqar and others

    Edit: Some more info:
    - 127k driven
    - Plugs were cleaned but mechanic said they require changing. He also said that spark plug seals are going bad so change at next tappets adjustment service.
    - Radiator was fully serviced some time ago with new coolant. The temperature needle was at usual position when exhaust was glowing red.
    - Exhaust is not blocked.
    - Car is giving good mileage
    - Fuel filter never been replaced


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    Looks like injector or coil malfunction. One i was in similar situation. Car trembled like heck n loss of power. Culprit was coil which i replaced. No CEL appeared though!


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    Quote Originally Posted by MrUnknown View Post
    Looks like injector or coil malfunction. One i was in similar situation. Car trembled like heck n loss of power. Culprit was coil which i replaced. No CEL appeared though!


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    but injectors are not even working while on cng, the problem happens on cng too
    And last night it worked fine for like 15mins and this morning the problem appeared again

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    Default Help: Car not starting civic 05 MT

    Quote Originally Posted by HellsGuardian View Post
    but injectors are not even working while on cng, the problem happens on cng too
    And last night it worked fine for like 15mins and this morning the problem appeared again
    Oh my bad! Strange issue. Check with reputable mechanic. Better call mechanic home instead of towing it. Yes it might cost u more but it is worth it rather then towing the vehicle.
    One more thing that if u fiddle with map sensor or its connection with start car that would definitly shake/stall/viberate car. Bad map sensor would straight away throw CEL .


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    your mechanic basically made a code for you, as soon as you disconnect the map sensor on a running engine, the ECU will record a fault code. The idea of the fault code is to record it with everything connected.

    What he did was this - you drink hot tea while a thermometer is in your mouth and then your doctor says you have fever.

    If you are getting problems in your CNG advancer then check the TPS connection too - the advancer would be wired to the TPS and MAP. look at the wires closely. Mind you they are both sensors (meaning they can only sense). In other words - if your engine spark timing is messing up the MAP sensor will show low vacuum and you may assume its a bad MAP.

    so better to check the wiring to the MAP sensor for breaking - if your engine has been a victim of "deezal isspray sarviss" the wires would be cooked hard by now.
    ZRS - Zulfiqar Racing Systems ..... - professionals at work - at crackwheels.com

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    recovery truck ?
    yar even a mehran can tow your car to workshop
    do not short the wires and do a quick fix
    the diagnosis should be done on as it is basis
    Life is short and very unpredictable just like a Quarter mile .....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xulfiqar View Post
    your mechanic basically made a code for you, as soon as you disconnect the map sensor on a running engine, the ECU will record a fault code. The idea of the fault code is to record it with everything connected.

    What he did was this - you drink hot tea while a thermometer is in your mouth and then your doctor says you have fever.

    If you are getting problems in your CNG advancer then check the TPS connection too - the advancer would be wired to the TPS and MAP. look at the wires closely. Mind you they are both sensors (meaning they can only sense). In other words - if your engine spark timing is messing up the MAP sensor will show low vacuum and you may assume its a bad MAP.

    so better to check the wiring to the MAP sensor for breaking - if your engine has been a victim of "deezal isspray sarviss" the wires would be cooked hard by now.
    Yes i realized his fix is useless as evident later. I kept asking questions but he could never give solid explanation...
    I will check the TPS wiring. I did check the MAP wiring, it seemed fine, apart from the cuts cng mechanic made :/
    If spark timing is messed up, it means the problem is with advancer right?
    No i have never got diesel sprayed anywhere. Though i get the engine bay washed but never faced any issue.

    So an update is that when i reached home tonight, i started the car (on petrol) and it started easily. I turned on AC gave accelerator couple of times but no issues at all. as if nothing happened. I switched to cng and even then the car switched and worked on cng perfectly. Then i switched to petrol again and kept it running. Now i assume(because car kept running for like 7-8mins) that as soon as car was warmed up the engine gave up and died. I cranked it up but it wont start now... CEL did not came up btw this time. But i guess it will if i do what i did last night (first post)

    Shall i disconnect the cng wiring completely and see what happens on petrol? I mean disconnect advancer and emulator and connect factory wirings? I have never done it before but i am sure with a little search over PW and internet i can do it. Or should i ask some electrician to visit my home for this?

    Oh and why would exhaust manifold glow red?
    Quote Originally Posted by hash4u View Post
    recovery truck ?
    yar even a mehran can tow your car to workshop
    do not short the wires and do a quick fix
    the diagnosis should be done on as it is basis
    Hasham bhai wo to thek hai par jaun ks k pas? koi kam ka mechanic nahi, har koi bas kam chalany wali bat karta hai. Can you suggest some good place to diagnose this issue? Yes i even asked that guy not to remove battery as it will delete the code yet he did it :@

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    which sector/area is nearest to you ?
    Life is short and very unpredictable just like a Quarter mile .....

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    I am in G-9/1. I can go anywhere (either towing or recovery) in ISB provided the work done is satisfactory. If cng is really the issue, i am having a thought to get rid of it all together. Main thing is to diagnose what exactly is the problem which is why i posted here

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    Quote Originally Posted by HellsGuardian View Post
    I am in G-9/1. I can go anywhere (either towing or recovery) in ISB provided the work done is satisfactory. If cng is really the issue, i am having a thought to get rid of it all together. Main thing is to diagnose what exactly is the problem which is why i posted here
    Cng works fine with this car. Anyway hash4u can help u as he helped me with the throtle issue. I also have 0 idea bout mechanics nd stuff nd he introduced me to a guy who works in honda classic nd runs his private shop after honda hours. My issue was resolved in 10 minutes by that guy when all so called reputable mechanics failed.


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    Quote Originally Posted by MrUnknown View Post
    Cng works fine with this car. Anyway hash4u can help u as he helped me with the throtle issue. I also have 0 idea bout mechanics nd stuff nd he introduced me to a guy who works in honda classic nd runs his private shop after honda hours. My issue was resolved in 10 minutes by that guy when all so called reputable mechanics failed.


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    What is his name? Aqash?

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    Quote Originally Posted by HellsGuardian View Post
    What is his name? Aqash?
    Yes bro.


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    i guess coils or injectors are the issue! go to nazir electrician! get cng removed. once electrical problem appears in honda, it makes u mad! someone plz tell him the address of nazir electrician

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    If it is injector problem then why it is happening on CNG too? The car starts up fines, idles fine, takes accelerator fine as long as it is cold but once engine warms up it dies and cannot be started again.

    I removed all cng wirings myself. Removed all bypasses from emulator and connected coil connectors directly to rails. I also removed advancer wirings i.e connected MAP directly, connected TPS directly. The car still won't start. The engine fires up for a moment and then it dies. There is no CEL as of now and if you keep trying to give it self, the engine cranks, does not fires up and as soon as you let go off the key, a poof/sputter is heard from silencer and i can also see black soot on garage floor below silencer.

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    Talked to aqash. He suspects one of the timing sensor gone bad. I will visit him this evening. Really getting tired of problems popping up every 3 months :/ In 2016 alone i have spent some 30k on it (apart from oil changes etc) and now more expected sigh :/

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    Quote Originally Posted by HellsGuardian View Post
    Talked to aqash. He suspects one of the timing sensor gone bad. I will visit him this evening. Really getting tired of problems popping up every 3 months :/ In 2016 alone i have spent some 30k on it (apart from oil changes etc) and now more expected sigh :/
    If it have nvr had engine job (head faced) or over heating. Nd mentainance is done timely then. Cng is wats killing ur car. Talkin from personal experience.


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    Default Help: Car not starting civic 05 MT

    Quote Originally Posted by MrUnknown View Post
    If it have nvr had engine job (head faced) or over heating. Nd mentainance is done timely then. Cng is wats killing ur car. Talkin from personal experience.


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    + sensors aint that expensive. :p

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrUnknown View Post
    + sensors aint that expensive. :p

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    The genuine TDC sensor costs 5k+ and crank position sensor costs 7k+

    Any way went to Aqash last evening. He read error code (without scanner) and said its the TDC sensor error. He replaced the sensor and car is running fine now. But how can we be sure that sensor itself was faulty and something else did not cause the sensor to go haywire? I mean if TDC is reporting something, then we have to dig down not just simply replace it? So how to deduce if it is a false positive by sensor or actually a bigger problem?

    Total cost 6k
    2.5k for recovery truck (yes no taxi wala or even suzuki wala was willing to go from G9 to I0 lol) The friend who lived near by was also gone to his gaon and I did not feel nice to ask for favour from those who are not living near by.
    1.2k labour
    2.5k kabli sensor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrUnknown View Post
    If it have nvr had engine job (head faced) or over heating. Nd mentainance is done timely then. Cng is wats killing ur car. Talkin from personal experience.


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    No the car is with me since day one. Bought it through bank zero meter. It has no heating problems and never had any engine job done apart from tappets adjustments etc.
    I have been doing routine maintenance on time (fuel pump never changed though) gear oil/ brake service/radiator flush/timing belt pretty much everything time to time has been done still car has started giving me tough time. May be it is 11 years old now so its bound to happen?
    I have been using Honda genuine oil 10w30 from start. This time i used Castrol magnatec 10w40, For 3000kms the oil level was fine but last night i checked the oil has started to decrease (4000km since oil change) I intend to change it at 5k interval.

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    Glad to know car got fixed
    Hope it serves u trouble free now
    Life is short and very unpredictable just like a Quarter mile .....

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