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Thread: Rough Idling Problem with CNG on Honda Civic 2001

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    Default Rough Idling Problem with CNG on Honda Civic 2001

    First I thought to post it in the thread started by @ diesel_boy, but this topic is a bit different so started a new thread. This what was said earlier;

    @ Mr. Logas,

    A friends CNG civic 2001 model also has a Rough Idling Problem.

    And my search of internet tells me that the Venturi is the main problem.

    In that civic the Venturi is installed inside the airfilter box. Can you kindly tell me if Genuine/Original venturi designed for the Civic engines are available in Pakistan? and what is the cost? ........because when I look at the venturi it seems like a desi stuff!!

    Can you also guide us towards the permanent solution of rough idling on Civics?....The problem is more significant when the engine is Cold!

    Thanks for your consideration


    Mr. Logas replied as:
    @Wheels...........

    If you are a regular visitor of PW, you must hv readmy several posts that the most and common problem is the type, size and placement of mixer (ventury), if you use an imported gold plated mixer.... of wrong size, type and place it in the airfilter box, it will give you the same troubles.

    So if by looking at the material and craftmanship is poor and the size, type and placement is correct, it will do the best job.

    Ask your installer to place it as near as possible to the throtle body neck. Hope the same will give you some difference, then ask him to change the size and try to adjust it.
    Live & Let Live

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    We decided to post some pictures of that particular vehicle for reference to better understand the problem and evaluate the position of gas mixer.
    Rough Idling Problem with CNG on Honda Civic 2001 -733041


    Rough Idling Problem with CNG on Honda Civic 2001 -733042


    Rough Idling Problem with CNG on Honda Civic 2001 -733043


    Rough Idling Problem with CNG on Honda Civic 2001 -733044


    Rough Idling Problem with CNG on Honda Civic 2001 -733045
    Live & Let Live

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    Default

    a couple more
    Rough Idling Problem with CNG on Honda Civic 2001 -733046


    Rough Idling Problem with CNG on Honda Civic 2001 -733047
    Live & Let Live

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    Default

    @ Mr. Logas,

    Kindly shed some light!

    Thanks
    Live & Let Live

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    @Wheels1........

    So it prooved by your pictures that installer did a messup here, the type, size placement are all wrong, and on top of that he pushed the gas pipe of mixer (ventury) too much, so there is no enough passage for the air, you need a good air / fuel ratio by useing the mixer (ventury). Just insert the gas into the engine is not called a conversion.

    If you study a carburator, the nerrowest point of the airpassage inside the carburetor is called ventury, where the maximum pressure build and at the same time and same point fuel introduced for the proper mixture of air / fuel.

    If some one pay a little attention to understand basic fuel system, its very easy to understand to use an alternate fuel for EFI or a carburetor car.
    Economy With Security And Durability.

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    @ Mr. Logas Thankyou for the reply!

    Now the issue of solving the problem!

    1) What are the things needed to correct the situation i-e
    Bigger/Smaller size ventury
    2) New Pipe

    3) Will there be a need to replace the airfilter box?

    5) If we redo the the gas mixer fitting again will it create
    any further problem .......meaning to say as you have
    seen that the mixer is fitted with some kind of glue....
    if it is redone will there be more mess?

    4) Kindly give a rough estimates of cost?

    5) Do I have to come to Lahore to solve the whole
    problem?

    6) After correcting the situation will the morning startup
    (cold start) be smooth? and also the idling?

    Your expert advice needed.

    Thanks for your consideration.
    Live & Let Live

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    @Wheels1............

    LOLzzzzzz, are you kidding or you serious? For this little job you want to come to Lahore???......

    Go to Automax, call Mr. Rizwan (Kkoool) 0321 956 2277, I told him about you, after rectifications, all will be fine, you need not to worry.
    Economy With Security And Durability.

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    @ Mr. Logas,

    Thanks for the help and making it a simple.

    I thought it was a major problem

    Appreciate your comments!
    Live & Let Live

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    @Wheels1.........

    You welcome, give me a feed back when you done with it.
    Economy With Security And Durability.

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    @Logas
    "If you study a carburator, the nerrowest point of the airpassage inside the carburetor is called ventury, where the maximum pressure build and at the same time and same point fuel introduced for the proper mixture of air / fuel.
    "
    Isnt the narrowest point in ventury is lowest pressure?

    @wheeels1
    The size,placement and restriction come only into play at higher RPM range. It idle, the gas is not being sucked into system due to ventury effect. At this poing its only due to idle mixture setting screw on the cng kit itself. A brass screw on the kit send a metered amount of gas which is fixed. i think its running lean, it could be rich aswell but due to the symptom that the problem is more on cold engine i think its lean.

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    @BigBoss.........

    You are right, I am an illiterate person, thanks for telling that ventury n pressure n vaccume thing. Measure and read some stuff before starting arguments, which will not run your car smooth.....

    Should I start sending the querries from Pindi/ISB/Pwr to you now onward? .....
    Economy With Security And Durability.

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    @LOGAS
    No. please keep you querries to yourself and my best wishes to those who ask you.

    For the time being please stick to the techinical issue in question here because other ppl may get more confused.

    Is the narrowest part of ventury max pressure or lowest pressure point? I still maintain (despite of your surcastic reply above) that its lowest pressure point unlike how you explained it.

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    Hello,
    Below please find an illustration of how a venturi works.

    Also a quote from wikipedia that
    "The venturi raises the air velocity, and this high speed and thus low pressure sucks fuel into the airstream through a nozzle or nozzles located in the center of the venturi"
    Rough Idling Problem with CNG on Honda Civic 2001 -733164

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    @BigBoss..............

    I was telling the difference between mixer and ventury, what are you trying to prove here? what you are showing here is supportive my statement above, and I am not teaching physics here.

    If you know that much, why dont you start your own threads for these stuff. You know a lot better than me.
    Economy With Security And Durability.

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    @Bigboss & @Logas,

    Very interesting and thought provoking!

    Coming to my problem...........well true that the rough idling is usually on a cold engine however when coming to a stop sign/signal and the moment the RPM drops below 1000..........it suddenly goes really low meaning around 500RPM and thus causing the whole vehicle to shake!

    But during regular high RPM commute meaning anything above 1000RPM there is no hint of a problem! Car is A/T

    so @ Bigboss what would you say? and looking forward to Mr. Logas to complete the healthy debate.

    Thanks
    Live & Let Live

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    @Bigboss

    I am sure you have seen the above pictures, what is your view about the size, installation and proximity of the gas mixer?

    thanks
    Live & Let Live

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    @Wheels1......

    I hv recommended Mr. Rizwan, now plz dont go there, take the car to Mr. BigBoss, Hope he will be more helpful.

    And when you end up and if.....again.....IF...problem (Allah na Karay) still be there......Go to Khattak CNG mechanic......this will tell you the difference.
    Economy With Security And Durability.

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    Well,
    Before trying to fiddle with the mixer intallation you should look into other possibilities like

    1. The idle gas control valve setting on the CNG regulator. Its a brass hand adjustable screw on the side of kit.

    2. In a EFI car, the idle is self adjusted by ECU by a idle adjust valve on the side of throttle body. it is supposed to work even in CNG mode. Its purpose is to adjust the air flow to engine during the idle. you can test it by switching to petrol mode and turning on the A/C. If the RPM adjusts itself then it means that valve is working ok. In this case just adjust the CNG idle valve.
    If not, try to get it repaired first.

    3. same proble may occure if there is vaccum leak in the inlet mainifold. Try to figure it out if every thing above fails.

    4. The size, location and installation of mixer should be your last priority in this specific problem. It is a possibility but remote.

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    is it working now?
    Live & Let Live

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    @ Mr. Logas,

    I have respects for you and Mr. Rizwan.

    You solve problems of people who have CNG related troubles which is help to us all!

    Mr. Rizwan is an expert in his field so no contention there.

    However I think it is the beauty of pakwheels that it allows us all to have a healthy and informative/educative discussions! which is great for car enthusiasts!

    PS: Who is and from where this Khattak CNG mechanic dropped in?

    Thanks
    Live & Let Live

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