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Thread: Engine differences: Corolla, Civic, Sunny, Lancer.

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    Default Engine differences: Corolla, Civic, Sunny, Lancer.

    Dear Fellows,

    I am using Nissan Sunny 2005. I just wanted to know what kind of ‘differences’ are there among the ‘engine technologies’ of Corolla, Civic, Sunny and Lancer (please take into account all the latest models present on the roads of Pakistan only). Also, what advantages/disadvantages do we get in these cars only 'engine-wise' when we consider the following factors;

    1. Pick or Acceleration (which will go faster).
    2. Technology (which one is advanced/obsolete)
    3. Fuel economy.
    4. Which car can be declared as is ‘simply the best’ (only engine-wise).

    Please don’t compare the whole cars… I just want to know about engine and their mechanism.

    Moreover, I know that there are a number of ‘intellectuals’ who have extraordinary knowledge about vehicles and can respond to my query.

    I thank you all in anticipation and anticipate to get articulate replies from the Pakwheelers.


    Regards,

    S. Nasir Raza Zaidi

    Drive slowly and attentively! It's the only solution to avoid severe on-road accidents.

  2. #21
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    The VVT and V-TEC in operation in the real world

    The Toyota engines seem to run slightly more aggressive cams than the Honda's, and so at lower revs they seem to (anecdotal evidence here ...) be a bit more pleasant to drive and make a little more power. There's also less of a transition when the cam shifting systems operate, but this is obvious due to the Honda system swapping over to a much more 'racy' cam profile. I think that the Honda's may seem to be a little 'flat' at lower revs because of this relatively large contrast, but I'd have to drive one and see a dyno chart to make verify this.
    Pro's - Both systems allow you to have an engine that's quite a lot more powerful and yet still driveable than a 'conventional' engine would otherwise possibly be. The V-TEC is the obvious choice for outright power, and the Honda's certainly seem to rev a heck of a lot more than the Toyota's do. (The S2000 red lines at a stratospheric 9,000rpm - stock!)
    Con's - You are pretty much stuck with limited modifications to the engine, eg, air filters, extractors, etc, to get more power. The reason for this is the very system that give the engine all that extra power - The cams & VVT/V-TEC. You can of course use larger cams to get more power, but this defeats the purpose of having the VVT/V-TEC in the first place. You'll most likely lose power at low revs, and not gain a great deal at high revs. (The VVT will gain proportionally more than the V-TEC, however, as the V-TEC head is optimised - well, compromised - for the 'big' cam & 'small' cam and so using a larger cam may not help much at all)
    So, if you want an engine with power like a racing engine, then you're better off building a straight race engine right from the start. Or maybe a turbo engine ...
    The other concern I have is the longevity of these sorts of engines. I believe that the VVT system would be largely trouble free for the life of the engine provided that you keep the oil clean and change it regularly. Even more so with the V-TEC, as with all it's little bits & pieces in close formation in the head I'd hate to think what would happen if some of those little locking pins didn't engage properly at 6000rpm+. All that being said though, I have it on reliable advice that Honda have never had a warrantee claim for any V-TEC engine in the area of the head and/or valve gear. Quite impressive.
    I think that perhaps the best long term solution to getting large amounts of power from a relatively small engine is still by using a turbo, but if you like to hear the engine scream at high revs then one of these two systems is the way to go.
    ,,, unless you know the track, you're not good enough to sit behind the wheel." K T

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    More on the Honda V-TEC S2000 engine

    I know that this page is intended to be a comparison between the Toyota VVT and the Honda V-TEC, but I've got a few more pictures of the Honda engine
    Engine differences Corolla Civic Sunny Lancer -629377
    ,,, unless you know the track, you're not good enough to sit behind the wheel." K T

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    If you have a good look at the above picture, you can see a relatively conventional alloy block. There's a few plugs that bolt in to the side that I assume allow for the casting of the internal structure of the water passages, and also for some localised expansion. The interesting bit is the lower part that bolts onto the bottom of the block - It incorporates the main bearing caps, and so makes them extremely rigid. This is one of the factors that let the engine run to 9000rpm. You can also see that there are some nice, thick dowel pins to locate the lower casting, so that the main cap bolts are simply used for keeping the main caps on, and not to accurately locate the caps as well.
    ,,, unless you know the track, you're not good enough to sit behind the wheel." K T

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    Engine differences Corolla Civic Sunny Lancer -629379

    In the above picture you can see a number of interesting details -
    - Coil-over-plug ignition. Each sparkplug has it's own coil, thus letting each of those coils fully saturate (electrically & magnetically) before firing.
    - The cams are driven by a 'morse hy-vo' chain. This takes slightly more power to drive than a belt drive, but it usually more accurate. (and slightly noisier)
    - The cams are driven by a central idler gear, and so spin in opposite directions.
    - The cam wheels are made from two pieces so that the rear piece can be turned a small amount to eliminate any back-lash.
    - The oil pump is driven by a small chain, going down into the sump. Not sure why they've done this, as the more common 'pump sitting around the crank' type pump would seem to be more efficient and reliable.
    - 4-2-1 extractors. Gives a better spread of power than the 4-1 type.
    - The water pump is driven at crank speed. (the water pump pulley is the middle one of the right hand column of three.) A lot of engines have the water pump driven faster than engine speed when they don't need to, thus wasting power.
    - Tiny little springs to keep the inner 'high power' cam followers working on the cam lobe when not engaged, and I guess to make the effective spring pressure and rate higher when V-TEC is working to allow very high revs.
    ,,, unless you know the track, you're not good enough to sit behind the wheel." K T

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    Toyota VVTL-i Variable Valve Timing & Lift - Intelligent
    The latest Toyota system, VVTL-i, ends up working in much the same fashion as the Honda V-Tec in that it uses a mechanical device to swap over between a 'small' cam for low & medium revs and a 'big' cam for high revs.
    Since the effects of a system like this are well described in the previous pages, I won't go over that again, but I will talk briefly about how it works, and it will be a brief talk as it's a very simple device.
    ,,, unless you know the track, you're not good enough to sit behind the wheel." K T

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    Engine differences Corolla Civic Sunny Lancer -629381

    This is the VVTL-i in the low/medium rev setting. The small cam lobe runs on a small follower which itself is a part of a 'U' shaped device that operates both valves. The big cam runs on its own follower, but that follower has nothing to work against .... at the moment.
    ,,, unless you know the track, you're not good enough to sit behind the wheel." K T

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    Engine differences Corolla Civic Sunny Lancer -629382

    The device has now swapped over to high rev operation, and if you look at the right hand diagram you can see how hydraulic pressure has moved a small pin under the big cam's follower, thus making the connection and so making the valves follow the big cam's profile.
    ,,, unless you know the track, you're not good enough to sit behind the wheel." K T

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    This system is fitted to the latest 1ZZ-FE & 2ZZ-GE engines, which make just over 100hp per litre.


    Engine differences Corolla Civic Sunny Lancer -629383
    ,,, unless you know the track, you're not good enough to sit behind the wheel." K T

  10. #29
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    yaar levin can u tell me that can we change the camshaft of honda civics with modified ones?? how much wod they cost and approximately how much hp wod they increase
    knowledge is horsepower

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    Here's the system, as installed in the engine. It actually shifts both cam's timing & duration by changing lobes, as shown below
    Engine differences Corolla Civic Sunny Lancer -629391
    ,,, unless you know the track, you're not good enough to sit behind the wheel." K T

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    The VVT-i controller is on the inlet cam side, and on the inlet it works just like the 'old' VVT system, to alter the cam timing. The increased lift and second lobe itself is activated by the rest of the hydraulic system.

    Engine differences Corolla Civic Sunny Lancer -629393
    ,,, unless you know the track, you're not good enough to sit behind the wheel." K T

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    n20: 50k plus approx for cam,, hp varies on other things apart from changing cams
    ,,, unless you know the track, you're not good enough to sit behind the wheel." K T

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    And above is how the hydraulic system works to control the oil flow. It seems to have oil pressure available all the time, but only when the 'oil control valve' shuts off the oil drain-back does the oil pressure work to make the VVTL-i system go to the high rev position. When the valve is open, the oil flows under low pressure but high speed through the system
    Engine differences Corolla Civic Sunny Lancer -629394
    ,,, unless you know the track, you're not good enough to sit behind the wheel." K T

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    exhaust:
    open bbdc low rpm 34degree
    high rpm 56degree
    close atdc low rpm 14deg
    high rpm 40deg
    duration low rpm 228deg high rpm 276deg
    lobe centre:low 110 deg high 108
    lifr low rpm 7.6
    high rpm 10
    ,,, unless you know the track, you're not good enough to sit behind the wheel." K T

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    inlet:
    open btdc low rpm 10to 33
    high rpm 15 to 58
    close abdc low rpm 15 to 58
    high rpm 97 to 54
    duration: low rpm 228 and high 292
    lobe centre 124deg to 81deg low rpm
    and high rpm is 131 to 88
    lift 7.6 low rpm and 11.2 at high rpm
    ,,, unless you know the track, you're not good enough to sit behind the wheel." K T

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    Gosh what an info

    @Admins

    can we mak a section here at Pakwheels in which users can ask direct questions to online technical exprts. u see here is a lot of material lying here like a dump. rather we can make a simple section in which these type of informations can be stored????
    -

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    Good info levin!
    WW3 the star studded extravaganza is coming to countries near you....book your weapons now!

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    hello!
    levin bhai good work....but as we talk about HOnda Civic Vti Current model with Vtec...so we can find that valve lifting system on one cam is pretty much difficult on a Single cam...as Toyota and Nissan got them on DOHC(Double Over head Cam)making it quiet simple and easy.....as DOHC engines are always for high end performance and engine cooling is far better than SOHC ones..what makes honda engines much powerful is increased vol and high compression...
    as ali asked about baleno and city engines so here are those also
    1st Honda City...
    newer one comes also with 1.5L VTec which is not available in earlier version....the 1.3L I-dsi and 1.5L Vtec engines are different platforms....
    1.5L is same as you see in Civic Exi 1.5L...difference is all about that this 1.5L includes Vtec and 7 mode Steermatic...i-dsi engine uses 2 plugs per cyl for better fuel consumption and it can't let a single vapour of fuel to left from exhaust without burned...so its bit advanced engine but its 8V SOHC making it sounds like some mid 80's engine...
    1.3L I-dsi=78hp
    1.5L VTEC=108hp
    coming towards baleno....so simple engine with 16V SOHC..nothing special...all models comes with same engine producing around 84bhp....
    1.3L G13B B=84hp.....
    baleno hp are little much than city but 1.5L VTEC has to be the great in performance....
    Thanxxx
    TOYOTA Sprinter 86- AE80 DOHC 20v'D TOYOTA Corolla 98- AE101 4AFE 16v

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    @ Levin,

    Brother, I really appreciate the information given by your goodself.

    Thanks once again for such efforts.

    Regards,

    S. Nasir Raza Zaidi
    Drive slowly and attentively! It's the only solution to avoid severe on-road accidents.

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    hello!
    its much Bill Sherwood effort rather than Levin Bhai ...don't mind but its all from www.billzilla.org...i know this bcz he put that 4A-GE 16V in its KP61...from that i know this...but nice info to post...always remember to mention the cortesy...
    Thanxxx
    TOYOTA Sprinter 86- AE80 DOHC 20v'D TOYOTA Corolla 98- AE101 4AFE 16v

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