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Thread: Bang my head: call to all experts, Corolla

  1. #1
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    Default Bang my head: call to all experts, Corolla

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    Guys, I want to bang my head with Wall. Have you ever lost your keys, what do you do, find it everywhere, look at it again and again at same place or nearby. Same is the issue with me ????

    9th generation corolla Xli, 2007 model, 135000 km on clock, with engine 2nz-fe 1nz-fe is neither vvt or vvt-i is a plain engine without O2 sensor but has variable resistor so I have no help from internet except www.toyodiy.com website which gives exact engine details, components attached along with part numbers once you insert frame no of your car on site.


    (
    03/2007 TOYOTA COROLLA (NZE120R-GEMDKP) )

    OBD test on this vehicle does not provides information related to Long Term Fuel Trim LTFT and Short term fuel trim STFT cross checked on my OBD device and that?s from Toyata Rawal Motors, Toyata GT motors so how do I determine the air to fuel mixture of this EFI car as they say that computer they have from company does not shows LTFT,STFT on this vehicle.


    PROBLEM TAG:


    Car starts well on cold start up on petrol, but stalls if we press accelerator in morning while engine is cold while on petrol. Anyway once switched to CNG then flies but after 5 minutes once temperature has reached its optimum temperature then car runs well even on petrol.


    PROBLEM TAG:

    Vehicle stumbles on cold startup if accelerated but no problem while idling.

    PROBLEM TAG:

    Car stalls on petrol once accelerated from cold startup but becomes ok once attained proper operating temperature.

    Problem is a year old problem, guess what I have tried and done numbers of times

    Fuel Pump:
    Changed with denso original

    Fuel Filter:
    Changed twice with Toyata genuine fuel filter twice in last 15000km.

    Fuel Pressure Regulator:
    changed twice in last 15000 km.

    Fuel Pressure Test:
    Nobody had fuel gauge so had to buy my own. Fuel pressure is 42PSI once clicked and does not drops below 36psi even after 5 minutes. Mechanic says that let is try to install kabli and let?s see and I am sick and tired of everyone guessing, spending my money and still no results.

    Injectors ultrasonic cleaning:
    done from Nazir autos some 7000km back, injectors were fine but were cleaned again. Since then I regulator disconnect the injectors and keep on cleaning with carburetor cleaner at times and again expecting a magic to take place. I have disconnected individual injectors several time once car is idling and it stalls indicating that fuel injectors are firing properly.

    Ignition Coils:
    although, car runs perfectly well on CNG but ignition coils were disconnected while car was idling. It stalled and showed all of them to be ok both on petrol and CNG.

    Spark Plugs:
    sick and tired of changing them, adjusting the clearance and cleaning it after every 500km. this has became a joke.

    Tappet settings and valve clearance:
    Checked before twice and again checked today. Verified to be ok and within specs.

    Trouble Codes:
    car does not gives any trouble code.

    Throttle body wash:
    throttle body cleaned, idle control valve adjusted and it seems to work fine as once its position is changed then either idle rpm increase or decreases. Throttle position sensor works ok as obd test reveals that it is changing its position once we hit accelerator.

    MAF sensor:
    it gives flow of air and also provides intake air temperature. I have bought a second hand from scrap yard, switched its position but data on both the sensors matches 100%. Toyata motors have also tried to install a new one as a smart mechanic highlighted a problem with his blind fate, changed it but problem was intact so he took it back declaring the original to be ok.

    Intake Manifold:
    recently, I started suspecting that intake manifold maybe blocked but once it was removed then it seemed clear, slightly dirty but nothing such that can block the air passage. Cleaned and was installed back but problem is intact.

    Coolant Temperature Sensor:
    suspecting that it may be a problem so I looked at its reading on EML327 once car is started. It starts from 20 C and goes all the way to 92 C and now that I look at it every time once car starts. Although, I can change this but will I keep on spending money as results looks ok.

    Intake Temperature Sensor:
    this reading varies from 55 F to 70 F depending upon the temperature and sensor comes within the MAF sensor. It has been replaced with other MAF sensor I have but OBD shows same consistent readings on both the sensors so have attached it back.

    Air Filter and Housing blockage:
    it has no blockage like people do it on CNG cars. Clear air passage, no obstructing in between. Seems fine to me , as I take it off and put it back every time. Clean it as well.

    PCV valve:
    You know this is for Engine ventilation, removed and cleaned, seems ok as air passes one way and installed back. No improvement.

    Knock Sensor:
    Today, I got it opened, although did not had any trouble code from ECU. It seemed perfectly clean from inside so got it installed again without disturbing anything.

    Variable Resistor:
    this controls the air to fuel mixture, increases supply of petrol and has a specific procedure for increasing or decreasing the petrol. But you know what, I visited toyata GT motors, Toyata motors as they did not had the specific equipment to test and adjust it. So blindly said that problem is not with this part. Manual says that it not be disturbed or adjusted without measuring the CO2 content from exhaust.

    Fuel Tank inspection:
    fuel tank opened, checked and seems ok and crystal clear.

    Engine Condition: throws water droplets out on cold startup in morning from exhaust, mechanic says that its a sign that engine is in good condition, oil changes after every 5k, diary maintained, no signs of sludge so far. rocks on cng.

    I don?t know, I have got nut, Every mechanic wants to repeat older steps, once satisfied that they are ok, then says ?I don?t know?. Even toyata mechanic says ? temporarily tries to satisfy me, charges and next day problem is back. Don?t have so much time that I keep running around a shitty reason, they keep charging me and problems remains intact.

    Kindly help me solve the puzzle as I keep on repeating previous steps. If problem is known, I can repair it but here I don?t know what is an issue.
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  2. #2
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    I think you should install the EC-1 device and see the magic happen. Or not.

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    ^^
    thats for next level problems boss


    and throttle body and icv serviced?(quiet certaing as u have done to many other things)which emulator r u using?
    ever tried to disconnect emulator wirring completely

    anyways next week is last week of cng in punjab anyways
    Life is short and very unpredictable just like a Quarter mile .....

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    Its not a problem.
    Just try this when you park your car switch it to petrol let it idle for a minute then switch it off. Next morning start the car you will not face any of the said problem.

    I dont know real reason but it happens like this...

    your car is switched off on CNG when in morning(being efi cng kit) Car starts on petrol but there is Still veryless Cng in the car which is first burned then petrol starts flowing
    RIP

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    Quote Originally Posted by hash4u View Post
    ^^
    thats for next level problems boss


    and throttle body and icv serviced?(quiet certaing as u have done to many other things)which emulator r u using?
    ever tried to disconnect emulator wirring completely

    anyways next week is last week of cng in punjab anyways
    He needs to go to a shop that has - and know how to use - an exhaust gas analyzer.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by hash4u View Post
    ^^
    thats for next level problems boss


    and throttle body and icv serviced?(quiet certaing as u have done to many other things)which emulator r u using?
    ever tried to disconnect emulator wirring completely

    anyways next week is last week of cng in punjab anyways
    yes, serviced them multiples times, if a wiring is removed while car is idling then it throws the error code immediately.

    rest i am using EML327 Interface, which supports all OBD2 protocols and toyata motor guys says the same thing as car does not shows LTFT, STFT.

    that what worries me, no cng after 1st.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VCheng View Post
    I think you should install the EC-1 device and see the magic happen. Or not.
    dont know what is EC1 device.

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    Quote Originally Posted by qwertypoiu View Post
    Its not a problem.
    Just try this when you park your car switch it to petrol let it idle for a minute then switch it off. Next morning start the car you will not face any of the said problem.

    I dont know real reason but it happens like this...

    your car is switched off on CNG when in morning(being efi cng kit) Car starts on petrol but there is Still veryless Cng in the car which is first burned then petrol starts flowing
    nice TIP: will also try this next time. but if car idles for 10 seconds on petrol then dont you think remaining gas should be burnt and after 10 sec it should fly. problem remains their for next 2-3 min.
    on later part of the day, switching between different fuels does not creates any problems.

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    Quote Originally Posted by talhawaleed View Post
    dont know what is EC1 device.
    I am sure you will soon find out!

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    To tell you something. I have the same Corolla as you do, but its problem free. It developed problems on CNG a while back but was fine on petrol.

    The problem with your car is gonna be really tiny, because my City does the same. EXACTLY the same thing. You start it up in the morning, it will stall, shudder, sputter like anything. But once the Engine temp indicator goes off, its fine! Runs all day long flawlessly!

    It needs throttle body service, tappet adjustment and an ECU reprogram though. After which I expect this problem to go away.

    However, after reading your thread, I have pretty much lost the belief. Which spark plugs are you using? Are you sure the injector/ignition coil wiring harness is okay and is not leaking any current?

    To me, if you ask, it seems as if there is something wrong with the current supplied to the engine, due to which it bogs when cold.

    P.S: My city bogs both on petrol and CNG.
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    Quote Originally Posted by VCheng View Post
    I am sure you will soon find out!
    ic, EC1 scam you are referring to

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    Quote Originally Posted by RollOnBigMaMa View Post
    To tell you something. I have the same Corolla as you do, but its problem free. It developed problems on CNG a while back but was fine on petrol.

    The problem with your car is gonna be really tiny, because my City does the same. EXACTLY the same thing. You start it up in the morning, it will stall, shudder, sputter like anything. But once the Engine temp indicator goes off, its fine! Runs all day long flawlessly!

    It needs throttle body service, tappet adjustment and an ECU reprogram though. After which I expect this problem to go away.

    However, after reading your thread, I have pretty much lost the belief. Which spark plugs are you using? Are you sure the injector/ignition coil wiring harness is okay and is not leaking any current?

    To me, if you ask, it seems as if there is something wrong with the current supplied to the engine, due to which it bogs when cold.

    P.S: My city bogs both on petrol and CNG.
    Throttle body, I have cleaned it yesterday and second time within this month and adjusted all the parameters like if you change the position of idle control valve then either idle rpm is adjusted.

    Idling is not an issue either on cng or petrol. Car runs well on CNG, normally if ignition coils are bad then it should create problems on both cng, petrol but here problem is petrol only.

    Ignition coils wiring removed while car is idling and it stalls which indicates that it doing its job.
    Something is wrong with any sensor which I am unable to catch.

    Normally stumbling issues related to bad coolant temperature sensor or intake temperature sensor. I look at both the readings daily and seems ok.

    I am using NGK plugs normally available at every workshop and every one mostly installs it.

    i know its a small shitty problem but i am unable to trace it as ECM does not provides any hint.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VCheng View Post
    He needs to go to a shop that has - and know how to use - an exhaust gas analyzer.
    we have no shop here, which has a exhaust gas analyzer. what do you expect, toyata workshops does not have it so you are expecting anyone else to have that equipment.

    also this vehicle has no sensor attached with exhaust.

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    try showing it to mushtaq in gawal mandi
    -

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    Quote Originally Posted by qwertypoiu View Post
    Its not a problem.
    Just try this when you park your car switch it to petrol let it idle for a minute then switch it off. Next morning start the car you will not face any of the said problem.

    I dont know real reason but it happens like this...

    your car is switched off on CNG when in morning(being efi cng kit) Car starts on petrol but there is Still veryless Cng in the car which is first burned then petrol starts flowing
    Shouldn't it happen ALL the time then? I mean switch it off, start up again and bog?
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    Quote Originally Posted by RollOnBigMaMa View Post
    To tell you something. I have the same Corolla as you do, but its problem free. It developed problems on CNG a while back but was fine on petrol.

    The problem with your car is gonna be really tiny, because my City does the same. EXACTLY the same thing. You start it up in the morning, it will stall, shudder, sputter like anything. But once the Engine temp indicator goes off, its fine! Runs all day long flawlessly!

    It needs throttle body service, tappet adjustment and an ECU reprogram though. After which I expect this problem to go away.

    However, after reading your thread, I have pretty much lost the belief. Which spark plugs are you using? Are you sure the injector/ignition coil wiring harness is okay and is not leaking any current?

    To me, if you ask, it seems as if there is something wrong with the current supplied to the engine, due to which it bogs when cold.

    P.S: My city bogs both on petrol and CNG.
    problem on city is very simple as it shows LTFT and STFT. also look at coolant temperature sensor and intake temperature sensor values. very easy since we have an access to LTFT, STFT which can tell if car is running rich or lean on start.

    this car corolla is equipped with most shitty diagnostic tools which even does not tells you if car is running lean or rich so that we may reach a conclusion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by talhawaleed View Post
    we have no shop here, which has a exhaust gas analyzer. what do you expect, toyata workshops does not have it so you are expecting anyone else to have that equipment.

    also this vehicle has no sensor attached with exhaust.
    I think there is at least one in Lahore that was posted on PW a while ago. I am sure there are others too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RollOnBigMaMa View Post
    Shouldn't it happen ALL the time then? I mean switch it off, start up again and bog?

    no, rest of the day, it does not creates an issue. like if you start the car after two hours then its fine even on petrol. until unless engine becomes very cold like it happens very quickly in winters.

    but one thing, spark plugs becomes dirty very quickly and has to be cleaned afte maximum 200 km driven on petrol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by talhawaleed View Post
    problem on city is very simple as it shows LTFT and STFT. also look at coolant temperature sensor and intake temperature sensor values. very easy since we have an access to LTFT, STFT which can tell if car is running rich or lean on start.

    this car corolla is equipped with most shitty diagnostic tools which even does not tells you if car is running lean or rich so that we may reach a conclusion.
    What do I do if its either of the both? Lean or rich? For your issue, I think I know someone who fixed the same issue in a SE Saloon, it has a different motor than yours though, but might work. Tracing him.
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    Quote Originally Posted by talhawaleed View Post
    no, rest of the day, it does not creates an issue. like if you start the car after two hours then its fine even on petrol. until unless engine becomes very cold like it happens very quickly in winters.

    but one thing, spark plugs becomes dirty very quickly and has to be cleaned afte maximum 200 km driven on petrol.
    After you clean them, does the issue go away? Even for sometime?
    Agar chy bu'tt' hain Jama'at ki Aasteenon main - Mujhay Hai Hukm-e-Aazaan LA ILA HA ILL ALLAH...!

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