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Thread: Corolla 2.0D Saloon Engine and Transmission problem.

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    Default Corolla 2.0D Saloon Engine and Transmission problem.

    AOA members,

    i have a corolla 2.0D saloon, 2003 which has started to create problems when i took it to Pakistan tour in January 2015, before that engine had no issue whatsoever and used to start normally in single glow time and single self.

    few things to notice before i mention the problems are, CSD is operational and pump and nozzles are calibrated from Cummins PK and it is timed with dial gauge, fans are auto, valve clearances as per manual i.e. 0.28-0.30mm.

    Engine problems:

    1 - Cold Starting problem with missing, knocking and white smoke - [SOLVED post#25] - does not start when engine is cold and if push started it produces a lot of white smoke and knocking, before the tour i changed its glow plugs as old plugs were taking about 8,9 seconds to fully glow up while new ones were glowing in 6 seconds, cold start issue was initially because of a weak wire from battery to glow plugs, after changing the wire problem was slightly resolved and engine used to start after 3 glow timers but later on it totally refused to start irrespective of the glow timers.

    my electrician took out the glow plugs for checking purpose and found oil on the 1st and 3rd glow plug from the pulley, i also feel that knocking sound i also from the 3rd cylinder or somewhere near it.

    yesterday i checked the resistance of glow plugs and it was found to be 0.4-0.5 ohm of all four plugs so i again installed old glow plugs whose resistance was varying from 0.9-1.8 ohm and today morning i gave 3 glow timers and it started with 4,5 self and knocking was there but much reduced on old glow plugs.

    2 - Starter motor - [SOLVED post#11] - Mechanics say that the starter motor is taking load and not rotating the engine at the speed it should to start it that's why the engine does not start in cold, i do agree with them to the extent that starter motor is somehow slow but it was starting the engine without any knocking n missing and still it starts the hot engine perfectly, now even if i push start it, engine misses and knocks on cold.


    Gear problem:

    - while i was on the tour, car's 5th gear suddenly came to the position between reverse and 5th just as i left accelerator, when engaged it again into 5th and left clutch there was some sound from the gear it again came between 5th and reverse so without taking any risk i drove it in 4th gear all the way to Karachi. now showed it to a gear mechanic n he said 'faag kat gai hai isski' and if i forcefully keep it in 5th while leaving clutch it'll work fine and the same happened, now i have to hold the gear while leaving clutch in 5th gear.


    -speedometer sensor is installed in gear and its not working properly because original 'garari' of #32-27 is not available. when i cold start it the speedometer doesn't work, after a drive of around 5-7kms speedometer slowly starts working but does not show accurate speed like if i am driving on 60 speedometer will show 50 and if i keep the accelerator pressed speed needle stays constant on wrong speed while if i leave the accelerator the needle starts dancing between 10-20 when actual speed is 30, between 50-60 when actual speed is 70, etc

    -gear gets hard if the ambient temperature is high or if driven with ac or the car is continuously driven on high rpm like when 5th gear wasn't being engaged so while driving on 4th gear rpm was above 3000 rpm n gear got hard, and it is not only hard it gets extremely hard to shift it, however its perfect when cold or driven without ac or on low rpm.

    last year i thought that my car had starting issue when its hot because the starter acted as if battery is down when starting on engine's optimum temperature but i was wrong and found that if i start the car with clutch pressed the starter would act normal so it means the hard gear also makes the starter motor work slow.

    -considering the above problems shall i replace the gear or get it repaired ? and idea of its cost ?


    @Xulfiqar bhai and other senior members kindly help.


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    1. It Sounds,engine needs overhauling,however get its compression test done prior going for overhaul.
    2. Transmission case also need to be repaired.
    3. Replace clutch fluid and bleed out the air.
    Never loose hope in life,every step gives u something.

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    thanks for ur response.

    i am searching for diesel engine compression tester from a long time but no success yet.

    i have also got the transmission repaired some time back, problem was of synchronizer, nearly 7K was spent but again another problem arise now that's why i am more willing to replace the complete transmission for approx 20K rather then repairing it again with no assurance of problem being completely solved as mechanics r not professionally trained.

    although clutch has no problem but still i will surely check the oil and bleed out the air.

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    for the very 1st time a thread starter have given complete data of trouble and measures taken earlier. ! am sure you can work your way around rebuild, Diesel pump can be calibrated at CUMMINS Diesel at Shahrae Faisal during engine rebuilt work.

    however I'd suggest transmission swap, check from Quetta for the 2C transmission. You may check from motor dealers scrap yards (coming from hyd to khi on down track left side after bundu khan flyover ) for 'KANCHA' piece of 2C ka double top (5 speed ) with VSS in place and price will be under 20000 for sure.
    - www.crackwheels.com - A skilled Dictator is much more beneficial to Country......than a Democracy of Ignorant people

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    @Salman922 please read the pages here for diesel motors in Pakistan
    - www.crackwheels.com - A skilled Dictator is much more beneficial to Country......than a Democracy of Ignorant people

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    Quote Originally Posted by capsat View Post
    for the very 1st time a thread starter have given complete data of trouble and measures taken earlier. ! am sure you can work your way around rebuild, Diesel pump can be calibrated at CUMMINS Diesel at Shahrae Faisal during engine rebuilt work.

    however I'd suggest transmission swap, check from Quetta for the 2C transmission. You may check from motor dealers scrap yards (coming from hyd to khi on down track left side after bundu khan flyover ) for 'KANCHA' piece of 2C ka double top (5 speed ) with VSS in place and price will be under 20000 for sure.
    thanks for the appreciation i have still retained some information regarding this car to avoid over information, and i forgot to mention (updating on main post now) that almost 11 months back i got the pump and nozzles calibrated from Cummins PK, valve clearances adjusted as per manual and all other things done as per Sir Zulfiqar's guidance.

    more information is that i have got the car from last 8 years approx and in those 8 years engine was overhauled twice, once when we were getting it so previous owner got it overhauled by Khan motors defence and then last time engine was overhauled about 4 years back when i had no knowledge about diesel engines and was misguided by the mechanic and after overhaul car is driven less then 100,000 kms approx so i don't think it needs rebuilt again.

    for oil on glow plugs and cold start on too many selfs mechanics say that it needs valve seals and the problem will be solved but before getting it done i need to get @Xulfiqar bhai's opinion.

    for transmission i don't have any contacts in Quetta. the bundu khan flyover which u mentioned can u please pin point it on google maps ? i was thinking to go to shershah for the transmission but still don't know any reliable n honest person there.


    Quote Originally Posted by capsat View Post
    @Salman922 please read the pages here for diesel motors in Pakistan

    i have already gone through these pages, u can see my posts on initial few pages. i have also made a word document of Zulfiqar bhai's posts on diesel engines of about 20 pages and continuous research on PW for about four months to tune my engine according to the guidance of Zulfiqar bhai which was successfully done last year

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    the syncro rings repair done usually in Pakistan is with used parts - bad idea, get new syncros - and then set the shaft float correctly so you dont overload the gears when they spin up. The syncro rings also require correct measurement and smooth operation when installed.

    For oil on glow plugs, it usually means its not working, make sure your cylinder head has a good grounding lug on it, in total the glows suck 40 amps of juice when working. A bad ground will cause the glow plug not to fully heat up and cause nailing till the engine warms up the combustion chamber that was cold started.

    the test was correct - you test the glows with buss bar removed and test each resistance to ground (not to battery but to cylinder head). it should be about 1 ohm at max for a 11V glow plug - 0.4 ohms are low voltage (higher amp) plugs which were wired through a resistor that is screwed into the intake manifold. (not present in Pakistani model diesel corolla)

    changing valve seals on this engine is very very easy with head in place if you can build a valve depressing crane tool, remove the camshaft, rotate engine to TDC1 and change both seals of cyl1 and cyl4 - once you remove the cam and follower, use the crane to press the valve spring, remove valve collets - release spring, the valve will now rest on the piston face and will not fall - replace seals with new - install valve spring back. Repeat on cyl 4

    rotate engine 180 degrees and do it on cyl 2 and 3

    Note:

    You can also couple the tappet adjustment with this job too - just measure the clerances of the tappets before removing the cam, replace the shims as necessary when you replace the lifters.

    pack the engine up - check timing with dial gauge again if you loosened the belt tensioner.
    ZRS - Zulfiqar Racing Systems ..... - professionals at work - at crackwheels.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xulfiqar View Post
    the syncro rings repair done usually in Pakistan is with used parts - bad idea, get new syncros - and then set the shaft float correctly so you dont overload the gears when they spin up. The syncro rings also require correct measurement and smooth operation when installed.
    i don't expect any gear mechanic to do it over here so replacing transmission as last resort.

    For oil on glow plugs, it usually means its not working, make sure your cylinder head has a good grounding lug on it, in total the glows suck 40 amps of juice when working. A bad ground will cause the glow plug not to fully heat up and cause nailing till the engine warms up the combustion chamber that was cold started.
    i didn't get what u mean by grounding lug ? like what should i ask electrician or mechanic to check and do ? and what if ground is okay, what next is to be done for the oil on glow plugs ?

    this was the condition of glow plugs which were taken out, they are kept with respect to cylinder from which they are taken out i.e. 1st left one is from 1st cylinder from the pulley. u can see the oil on 1st and 3rd glow plug.

    Corolla 20D Saloon Engine and Transmission problem -1549610


    the test was correct - you test the glows with buss bar removed and test each resistance to ground (not to battery but to cylinder head). it should be about 1 ohm at max for a 11V glow plug - 0.4 ohms are low voltage (higher amp) plugs which were wired through a resistor that is screwed into the intake manifold. (not present in Pakistani model diesel corolla)
    what about the glow plug which is showing more then 1 ohm ?


    changing valve seals on this engine is very very easy with head in place if you can build a valve depressing crane tool, remove the camshaft, rotate engine to TDC1 and change both seals of cyl1 and cyl4 - once you remove the cam and follower, use the crane to press the valve spring, remove valve collets - release spring, the valve will now rest on the piston face and will not fall - replace seals with new - install valve spring back. Repeat on cyl 4

    rotate engine 180 degrees and do it on cyl 2 and 3

    Note:

    You can also couple the tappet adjustment with this job too - just measure the clerances of the tappets before removing the cam, replace the shims as necessary when you replace the lifters.

    pack the engine up - check timing with dial gauge again if you loosened the belt tensioner.
    luckily, with the help of @raftechs901 , i have found a mechanic who change the valve seals as per your suggested method BUT first i need to make sure that valve seal replacement is really needed or not ?? kindly confirm about it.

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    the no.3 plug is clean on the heating element, the oil on the threaded shaft is because of seepage from its seat, mechanic overtorqued them or the seat is carboned up.

    Clean it out with with a reamer bit twisting by hand gently.

    p.s. - please get rid of this extremely poor battery terminal and find a correct battery, you need the left side battery type not the right side type.
    ZRS - Zulfiqar Racing Systems ..... - professionals at work - at crackwheels.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xulfiqar View Post
    the no.3 plug is clean on the heating element, the oil on the threaded shaft is because of seepage from its seat, mechanic overtorqued them or the seat is carboned up.

    Clean it out with with a reamer bit twisting by hand gently.

    p.s. - please get rid of this extremely poor battery terminal and find a correct battery, you need the left side battery type not the right side type.

    Corolla 20D Saloon Engine and Transmission problem -1549619

    i am talking about the oil on encircled portion, it was cleaned and installed for the first time when i got to know about oil on it, then for checking purpose i drove approx 50kms and it again had this oil, heating element is clean probably because it was preheated atleast 8 times while i was trying to start engine but it did not start.


    okay i will replace the terminal and will also take care of battery being left side while replacing it next time.


    Sir kindly tell me about valve seals too, shall i get them changed ?

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    little update:

    yesterday i got the starter motor replaced with the one of hilux, now starting issue of hot or cold is solved as starter rotates the engine at a high speed and it starts even without glow timer. However, the missing and knocking issue on cold start with white smoke is still there and on cold start it seems like engine wants the starter motor to run it near to idle rpm to start it or u can say engine wants to start but not being able to, like lambay sulf pe start horahi hai. (m unable to explain).

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    I am going to get the gear replaced in a day or two. Got the lowest estimate of 15,000 for gear and approx 3000 labour. Didn't check shershah for it but I think there won't be much difference in the prices as a person who quoted 15,000 his shop was in plaza but his brother's shop is in shershah and he said prices r nearly same.

    Now the question is how to make sure that the gear I am buying is in really good condition, what to check and test ? Seller is saying that it is 'Japanese, behtreen condition etc' but I don't want to rely totally on him.

    @Xulfiqar bhai please guide.

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    ensure that you change the transmission oil before it is connected to car / engine
    - www.crackwheels.com - A skilled Dictator is much more beneficial to Country......than a Democracy of Ignorant people

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    Quote Originally Posted by capsat View Post
    ensure that you change the transmission oil before it is connected to car / engine
    Will surely do that, it takes 75w90 as per manual (as far as i remember).

    But i don't know about it's quantity and every mechanic gives his own figure, some 3L some say 2L. How to make sure that gear oil is full and not overfilled ?

    Btw will caltex delo gold be suitable for this transmission as Sir @Xulfiqar suggests it for other honda transmissions ?

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    if your engine takes that long to start then I believe the injection timing is bad - you also complain of nailing. Are you setting the timing by disabling the cold start?

    The transmission takes 75W85 gear oil, you cannot overfill it as its fill bolt is also the level check, once oil comes upto the fill bolt level it will start to drain the oil out from it, Its full at that point.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xulfiqar View Post
    if your engine takes that long to start then I believe the injection timing is bad - you also complain of nailing. Are you setting the timing by disabling the cold start?

    The transmission takes 75W85 gear oil, you cannot overfill it as its fill bolt is also the level check, once oil comes upto the fill bolt level it will start to drain the oil out from it, Its full at that point.

    Its not very long but yes lil longer then single touch start.

    Timing was done almost 8-10months back, CSD was not disabled because engine was already hot. But the problem of nailing started last month in freezing temperature in northern areas (as discussed earlier).

    Yesterday i started the car in afternoon when ambient temperature was near 30C and car nailed for just a few seconds and became normal while this is not the case if i start in morning.

    Caltex 75w85 will be fine for gear oil ? Any other tip to check transmission before and after installation ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Salman922 View Post
    Its not very long but yes lil longer then single touch start.

    Timing was done almost 8-10months back, CSD was not disabled because engine was already hot. But the problem of nailing started last month in freezing temperature in northern areas (as discussed earlier).

    Yesterday i started the car in afternoon when ambient temperature was near 30C and car nailed for just a few seconds and became normal while this is not the case if i start in morning.

    Caltex 75w85 will be fine for gear oil ? Any other tip to check transmission before and after installation ?


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line-height:115%; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-fareast; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;} </style> <![endif]--> A high quality used transmission is one that has no fluid buildup around the gasket edges and has a clean and damage-free appearance. Use the shifter linkage to manipulate the transmission through its gears. Feel for gaps in the shifting and make sure you can shift through all the gears.


    There is a risk you will take when you buy a used transmission. The person selling the part may not even know if it works or not. Remember to get any warranty you can, and get the work done before the warranty runs out to avoid spending money on a used transmission that does not work.





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    Quote Originally Posted by argtr65 View Post

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line-height:115%; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-fareast; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;} </style> <![endif]--> A high quality used transmission is one that has no fluid buildup around the gasket edges and has a clean and damage-free appearance. Use the shifter linkage to manipulate the transmission through its gears. Feel for gaps in the shifting and make sure you can shift through all the gears.


    There is a risk you will take when you buy a used transmission. The person selling the part may not even know if it works or not. Remember to get any warranty you can, and get the work done before the warranty runs out to avoid spending money on a used transmission that does not work.


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    sorry for a little late update as i was busy in exam.

    sir can u kindly further elaborate 'feel for gaps' ?

    i was searching for the transmission with warranty and luckily my mechanic has promised to arrange transmission for 15K and he'll provide 15 days checking warranty. i think this is the best deal as it saves me from khuwari and risks of plaza and shershah and his workshop is very near to my home so i can easily catch him if any problem occurs .

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xulfiqar View Post
    if your engine takes that long to start then I believe the injection timing is bad - you also complain of nailing. Are you setting the timing by disabling the cold start?

    on 31st March (4 days back), Rameez bhai - @raftechs901 checked its timing with dial gauge and it was considerably retard as compared to what is suggested by you, @raftechs901 will quote exact figures.

    now the problem is that how did the timing of pump automatically changed as 10 months back it was also set by dial gauge and after that NO ONE touched the timing of pump as i never leave the car unattended with mechanics. now i feel that engine sound is slightly increased and clattery even after being on optimum temperature, pick up also seems to be slightly increased.

    coming to the starting issue, it is same as before even after re-timing the engine. every mechanic with whom i have discussed the problem says 'head ka kaam hai' and even now i too think that when i have played around with timing and glow plugs and no solution so now i may have to leave my car on mechanic's rehem o karam !

    one more thing that i noticed was, when i went for timing, engine was on optimum temperature, after the work was done and packed i switched on and the heat needle showed almost 25% of the gauge, now when i started it then too engine nailed but much softer as compared to when it is dead cold. nailing pattern was also little different, like it nailed for few seconds then became normal for a second, then again nailing and then being normal and then coming in normal idling state gradually.


    now a latest cold start issue which happened today on dead cold start was engine was taking self and heavy jerks - as if engine was about to start and i stopped cranking it. and then finally it started after a very very long self and huge cloud of black smoke !

  20. #20
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    Default

    Before timing 5.5 mm at TDC
    after timing 8.5 mm at TDC

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