Survey by Qualaroo
+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 34
Like Tree7Likes

Thread: Help! Black smoke coming from Cultus'06 Model and Absence of water vapours in exhaust

  1. #1
    PakWheeler Follow
    winsomeharis86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Faisalabad
    Age
    29
    Posts
    219
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Problems Posted
    0
    Problems Solved
    0
    Best Answers
    0
    Good Answers
    0

    Default Help! Black smoke coming from Cultus'06 Model and Absence of water vapours in exhaust

    Aoa dear Pakwheelers and experts,

    Well there's a strange problem in Cultus 2006 which i am stuck nowadays and need expert opinions. Mine Cultus 2006 model has completed 106000 kms on odometer and radiator fan is automatic with Thermostat valve installed. Few days back, when CNG supply was banned here in Faisalabad, we converted to Petrol (though, we used to drive a day or two in a week on petrol when CNG was available) and did the necessary adjustments required by the car to run on petrol such as setting RPM, removing the air blockage. Thereafter converting to petrol, the car started giving black smoke and fuel consumption was severely disturbed. Also there were not any water vapors or water coming out in such a cold weather.

    Being a silent Pakwheeler, I visit this website regularly and have gained a lot in understanding car engine's basic functionality. So I searched forums here pertaining to black smoke problems and came with following suggestions posted on other threads by experts:

    ---> stuck choke plate
    ---> Proper mixing and adjustment of air/fuel ratio
    ---> Carburetor service
    ---> Butterfly problem in venturi
    ---> Petrol fuel filter cleaning
    ---> Plugs service
    ---> Float level height in carb can be high



    So I went to the mechanic yesterday and told him the problem and he said carburetor requires service as it has never ever been serviced since we bought the car in 2006. So he serviced the carburetor and changed the butterfly in carburetor. He adjusted mixture ratio and also checked choke and plugs. All fine according to him. He started the car, rev up the car and black smoke problem was still there with no water or vapours coming out. I asked him whether the float level in the carburetor was according to the desire level and whether jets within carburetor need further cleaning. He said no problem in float height and jet servicing. So right now I am puzzled what could be the problem. The car runs perfect MashAllah. Pick is awesome after carburetor service. If everything is fine according to mechanic and according to my understanding, then why car is giving black smoke throughout driving even when the engine is warm and why water or vapours are not present in such cold weather when ideally it should give vapours out.

    Dear Pakwheeler and experts, I leave it to you. What could be the possible problem and what could be the remedies possible. Waiting for you replies.

    Thanks.



    Update (1-1-2014):

    The real culprits were bad air-to-fuel ratio and ignition timing. So adjusted the A/F ratio to correct settings and ignition timing set to 10 deg BTDC on petrol. Before, it was 15 deg BTDC for CNG purpose. Moreover, following things were also done:

    1. Carburetor service
    2. Replacement of carb butterfly with Qabli one
    3. Spark Plug service

    Now the car runs fine MashAllah and giving water droplets as well in the start. Thank you guys for your valuable inputs.
    LaSallian, Ravian, NUSTian

  2. #2
    Senior PakWheeler Follow
    talhabinomar's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Lahore
    Age
    26
    Posts
    2,469
    Follows
    2
    Following
    0
    Mentioned
    38 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Problems Posted
    0
    Problems Solved
    1
    Best Answers
    1
    Good Answers
    3

    Default

    What about the Rings ?

  3. #3
    PakWheeler Follow
    ali454's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Lahore
    Age
    28
    Posts
    958
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Mentioned
    16 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Problems Posted
    1
    Problems Solved
    0
    Best Answers
    0
    Good Answers
    0

    Default

    it is 100% the carburetor as i had faced the exact problem in my cultus..( black smoke plus bad average)
    sadly the problem cudnt be diagnosed by many mechanics..until i came to know about Universal Autos in lahore..it took one full day for the job and charged me 6k...so now m getting 13kmpl without smoke so in my opinion do not waste ur time like i did by going to different mechanics..
    FOCAL /// PIONEER /// AUDISON /// KICKER /// JVC /// PHOENIX GOLD.

  4. #4
    Senior PakWheeler Follow
    shamail_haider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Sialkot
    Age
    30
    Posts
    2,128
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Problems Posted
    0
    Problems Solved
    0
    Best Answers
    0
    Good Answers
    0

    Default

    I had same problem with my 2006 cultus both on CNG and Petrol. But my car was throwing water from the exhaust tip even during the hot weather. So I went to my mechanic yesterday. He serviced the carburetor, cleaned the plugs and brought the car back to "Retart" from advance. Then he replaced a vaccume pipe as well. Now there is no black smoke and the Car sounds good as well.

    Sent from my A60 using PW Forums mobile app
    I Luv Jet Engines.......I Luv Cars.

    Its My Passion,i'm ready to go for it behind the Bars.

    Sialkot ROCKS.......

  5. #5
    PakWheeler Follow
    winsomeharis86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Faisalabad
    Age
    29
    Posts
    219
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Problems Posted
    0
    Problems Solved
    0
    Best Answers
    0
    Good Answers
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by talhabinomar View Post
    What about the Rings ?
    Dear Talha,

    New Piston rings were inserted about 3 months back.
    LaSallian, Ravian, NUSTian

  6. #6
    PakWheeler Follow
    winsomeharis86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Faisalabad
    Age
    29
    Posts
    219
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Problems Posted
    0
    Problems Solved
    0
    Best Answers
    0
    Good Answers
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ali454 View Post
    it is 100% the carburetor as i had faced the exact problem in my cultus..( black smoke plus bad average)
    sadly the problem cudnt be diagnosed by many mechanics..until i came to know about Universal Autos in lahore..it took one full day for the job and charged me 6k...so now m getting 13kmpl without smoke so in my opinion do not waste ur time like i did by going to different mechanics..
    Dear ali454,

    So what diagnosis exactly did the Universal Autos came up with ?
    LaSallian, Ravian, NUSTian

  7. #7
    PakWheeler Follow
    winsomeharis86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Faisalabad
    Age
    29
    Posts
    219
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Problems Posted
    0
    Problems Solved
    0
    Best Answers
    0
    Good Answers
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by shamail_haider View Post
    I had same problem with my 2006 cultus both on CNG and Petrol. But my car was throwing water from the exhaust tip even during the hot weather. So I went to my mechanic yesterday. He serviced the carburetor, cleaned the plugs and brought the car back to "Retart" from advance. Then he replaced a vaccume pipe as well. Now there is no black smoke and the Car sounds good as well.

    Sent from my A60 using PW Forums mobile app
    Dear Shamail,

    I guess car has been set to advance level on CNG and when driving on petrol it should be retarded. Could you please enhance my knowledge regarding retarding and advancing of timinigs?
    LaSallian, Ravian, NUSTian

  8. #8
    Senior PakWheeler Follow
    umarkhan1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Sargodha
    Posts
    2,308
    Follows
    6
    Following
    8
    Mentioned
    51 Post(s)
    Tagged
    4 Thread(s)
    Problems Posted
    0
    Problems Solved
    0
    Best Answers
    0
    Good Answers
    2

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by winsomeharis86 View Post
    Dear ali454,

    So what diagnosis exactly did the Universal Autos came up with ?

    probably the carb is running rich causing black smoke and high fuel consuption.
    also set the ignition timing to 12 deg btdc(with vacuum advance removed and bypassed stap 00b)
    Just Do It Your Self!!!!!

  9. #9
    Senior PakWheeler Follow
    shamail_haider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Sialkot
    Age
    30
    Posts
    2,128
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Problems Posted
    0
    Problems Solved
    0
    Best Answers
    0
    Good Answers
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by winsomeharis86 View Post
    Dear Shamail,

    I guess car has been set to advance level on CNG and when driving on petrol it should be retarded. Could you please enhance my knowledge regarding retarding and advancing of timinigs?
    Yes, you are right. He advanced the timing on CNG because the RPM were getting stuck at 3k and I was unable to push the car on highways. I told my mechanic and he said he will advance the timings and believe me, the car started accelerating like it accelerates on Petrol. But now we are facing CNG closure so I went to the mechanic again for some checkup and Carburetor cleaning and he retarded the timing back to the factory settings. "Advance" is the opposite for "Retard" so obviously if you advance the timings, your car's acceleration improves with no hindrance in the throttle response and when you bring it back to the "Retard", it behaves less powered. The acceleration of my car is less but the car is behaving more fuel efficient and I'm expecting to have above 17km/ltr on highway now.

    P.S. I went to the mechanic today for a casual checkup after Jumma Prayer and he smelled the exhaust tip and said the car is excellent on burning fuel and you will get an impressive mileage on long drive.


    Sent from my A60 using PW Forums mobile app
    I Luv Jet Engines.......I Luv Cars.

    Its My Passion,i'm ready to go for it behind the Bars.

    Sialkot ROCKS.......

  10. #10
    PakWheeler Follow
    ali454's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Lahore
    Age
    28
    Posts
    958
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Mentioned
    16 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Problems Posted
    1
    Problems Solved
    0
    Best Answers
    0
    Good Answers
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by winsomeharis86 View Post
    Dear ali454,

    So what diagnosis exactly did the Universal Autos came up with ?
    the butterfly,a few valves dun knw the correct term..were messed up...as i had got it serviced from Suzuki 3s workshop and they had messed up pretty much everything...plus the thermostat was out so the car didnt warm up quickly leading to running on auto choke for long durations...
    P.S these guys are professional and they know what they are doing.
    FOCAL /// PIONEER /// AUDISON /// KICKER /// JVC /// PHOENIX GOLD.

  11. #11
    PakWheeler Follow
    winsomeharis86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Faisalabad
    Age
    29
    Posts
    219
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Problems Posted
    0
    Problems Solved
    0
    Best Answers
    0
    Good Answers
    0

    Default

    Culprit caught!!! Turns out to be bad air to fuel ratio and ignition timing settings. Now my mechanic has adjusted the correct settings for A/F ratio and ignition timing set back to 10 deg BTDC on petrol. It was on 15 deg BTDC on CNG. I would like to say that before doing these adjustments, following things were done:

    1. Carburetor service
    2. Replacement of carb butterfly with Qabli one
    3. Spark Plug service

    Now the car runs fine MashAllah and giving water vapour droplets as well.Thank you guys for your valuable inputs.
    LaSallian, Ravian, NUSTian

  12. #12
    Senior PakWheeler Follow
    shereabdullah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Lala musa
    Age
    21
    Posts
    1,624
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Mentioned
    31 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Problems Posted
    0
    Problems Solved
    0
    Best Answers
    0
    Good Answers
    0

    Default

    gud to know ur prblm solved,, i think this problem is contagious,,as m also suffering from it,,plz tell me for how much u bought butterfly??
    every man sleeps 1/3 part of a day,, if he makes ABLUTION before sleeping, 1/3rd of his life will be counted as virtue

  13. #13
    PakWheeler Follow
    winsomeharis86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Faisalabad
    Age
    29
    Posts
    219
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Problems Posted
    0
    Problems Solved
    0
    Best Answers
    0
    Good Answers
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by shereabdullah View Post
    gud to know ur prblm solved,, i think this problem is contagious,,as m also suffering from it,,plz tell me for how much u bought butterfly??
    well butterfly was replaced during carburator service. Rs. 2500/= was charged for carb service as it is a sensitive and difficult job.
    LaSallian, Ravian, NUSTian

  14. #14
    PakWheeler Follow
    usman_haider84's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    98
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Problems Posted
    0
    Problems Solved
    0
    Best Answers
    0
    Good Answers
    0

    Default

    @winsomeharis86 :dear friend , i am also facing the little bit same issue.need your guidance .
    when i cold start the car it gives black smoke ,not much but it could be felt.later on when it warms up ,there should be steam in this cold weather but still it is continuously giving black smoke which is noticeable if u examine closely.
    water is droping from silencer but its not as much as it was before .now very little water and that too is totally black.
    water droping from silencer on floor is totally black water.
    what could be the problem?

  15. #15
    PakWheeler Follow
    usman_haider84's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    98
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Problems Posted
    0
    Problems Solved
    0
    Best Answers
    0
    Good Answers
    0

    Default

    and when i rev it hard it also gives black smoke in the end which is very thick black smoke easily visible

  16. 02-01-2014, 11:50 PM

    PakWheeler


  17. 02-01-2014, 11:55 PM

    PakWheeler


  18. #16
    PakWheeler Follow
    winsomeharis86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Faisalabad
    Age
    29
    Posts
    219
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Problems Posted
    0
    Problems Solved
    0
    Best Answers
    0
    Good Answers
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by usman_haider84 View Post
    @winsomeharis86 :dear friend , i am also facing the little bit same issue.need your guidance .
    when i cold start the car it gives black smoke ,not much but it could be felt.later on when it warms up ,there should be steam in this cold weather but still it is continuously giving black smoke which is noticeable if u examine closely.
    water is droping from silencer but its not as much as it was before .now very little water and that too is totally black.
    water droping from silencer on floor is totally black water.
    what could be the problem?
    @usman_haider84

    Dear usman bhai,

    Probably your car is running rich on fuel. The carb or injector is throwing more fuel as compared to what is required for proper burning. Which car do you have? Before taking my car to mechanic, it was giving black smoke and on revving hard, used to give dense black smoke. So he cleaned the spark plugs, serviced the whole carburetor, replaced butterfly in venturi with qabli one and inspected choke. All set. Car was still giving black smoke but pick was improved as a result of above process. Then it turns to be bad air-to-fuel ratio and ignition timing. So he adjusted the A/F mixture ratio and set the ignition timing back to 10 deg BTDC on petrol. On CNG, the timing is advanced in the range of 13-17 deg BTDC. Now car runs fine and black smoke vanished like Dirtu...

    Also check air filter, choke and set your radiator fan to auto with thermostat valve installed during winter. This helps in optimizing your car engine temperature, which otherwise is not possible with direct fan.
    LaSallian, Ravian, NUSTian

  19. #17
    PakWheeler Follow
    usman_haider84's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    98
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Problems Posted
    0
    Problems Solved
    0
    Best Answers
    0
    Good Answers
    0

    Default

    thermostat is installed wd auto fan.car is same as yours.cultus 2006.
    and i am getting the average of 17km/litre on highway.so i dont think so that it is running rich on fuel.
    so i think i should check only air to fuel mixture ratio?am i right?
    and why it is throwing black water ?
    before it was pure water with no contamination.
    Quote Originally Posted by winsomeharis86 View Post
    @usman_haider84

    Dear usman bhai,

    Probably your car is running rich on fuel. The carb or injector is throwing more fuel as compared to standard one in the cylinder. Which car do you have? Before taking my car to mechanic, it was giving black smoke and on revving hard, used to give dense black smoke. So he cleaned the spark plugs, serviced the whole carburetor, replaced butterfly in venturi with qabli one and inspected choke. All set. Car was still giving black smoke but pick was improved as a result of above process. Then it turns to be bad air-to-fuel ratio and ignition timing. So he adjusted the A/F mixture ratio and set the ignition timing back to 10 deg BTDC on petrol. On CNG, the timing is advanced in the range of 13-17 deg BTDC. Now car runs fine and black smoke vanished like Dirtu...

    Also check air filter, choke and set your radiator fan to auto with thermostat valve installed during winter. This helps in optimizing your car engine temperature, which otherwise is not possible with direct fan.

  20. #18
    PakWheeler Follow
    winsomeharis86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Faisalabad
    Age
    29
    Posts
    219
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Problems Posted
    0
    Problems Solved
    0
    Best Answers
    0
    Good Answers
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by usman_haider84 View Post
    thermostat is installed wd auto fan.car is same as yours.cultus 2006.
    and i am getting the average of 17km/litre on highway.so i dont think so that it is running rich on fuel.
    so i think i should check only air to fuel mixture ratio?am i right?
    and why it is throwing black water ?
    before it was pure water with no contamination.
    Yeah check the A/F mixture ratio... And regarding black water i think your silencer or exhaust is filled with soot which combines with steam to give black water in condensed form....But again that presence of black soot is an indicative of unburnt fuel being thrown out from the cylinder....Also check your ignition timing....More advanced or more retarded timing also affects the combustion process leading to unburnt fuel thrown out....so check A/F ratio and ignition timing....

    Thats my two cents....Other experts are more welcome to give their feedback...
    LaSallian, Ravian, NUSTian

  21. #19
    PakWheeler Follow
    usman_haider84's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    98
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Problems Posted
    0
    Problems Solved
    0
    Best Answers
    0
    Good Answers
    0

    Default

    ok friend
    tomorrow i will check these two things .
    Quote Originally Posted by winsomeharis86 View Post
    Yeah check the A/F mixture ratio... And regarding black water i think your silencer or exhaust is filled with soot which combines with steam to give black water in condensed form....But again that presence of black soot is an indicative of unburnt fuel being thrown out from the cylinder....Also check your ignition timing....More advanced or more retarded timing also affects the combustion process leading to unburnt fuel thrown out....so check A/F ratio and ignition timing....

    Thats my two cents....Other experts are more welcome to give their feedback...

  22. #20
    Senior PakWheeler Follow
    umarkhan1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Sargodha
    Posts
    2,308
    Follows
    6
    Following
    8
    Mentioned
    51 Post(s)
    Tagged
    4 Thread(s)
    Problems Posted
    0
    Problems Solved
    0
    Best Answers
    0
    Good Answers
    2

    Default

    @winsomeharis86
    how did you adjusted ignition timing??
    from stap 00b or from distributor??
    if you have done it from distributor,then your car wont run on CNG
    Just Do It Your Self!!!!!

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

User Tag List

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •