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Thread: Bought Split AC from MBBS

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    Default Bought Split AC from MBBS

    Hi fellows.

    just wanted to share my experience with you, i bought a samsung split AC from MBBS (another pakwheeler) and he confirmed that it was a brand new box pack unit.

    However upon installation it was revealed that it was a used AC.

    I have asked for an explanation from MBBS (Talha Dar) and havent got any and i have asked for a refund too.

    This is just to let you all know for your information.

    Regards,

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    @engr.naveed
    the other guy offering 35 lived far so neither he could come to my home nor i could go

    2015-05-07 16:11:12 in +923335120067 THINKING Aoa. You are selling samsung split. What is the reason for selling ? Can we have a deal at 25k?


    2015-05-07 16:33:34 out +923335120067 MBBS Where r u from?. I have spare unit thats why selling.
    2015-05-07 16:345 in +923335120067 THINKING Isb
    2015-05-07 16:34:22 in +923335120067 THINKING Does it has warranty?
    2015-05-07 16:36:31 out +923335120067 MBBS OK. Yes warranty by the vendor in I-8
    2015-05-07 16:37:17 in +923335120067 THINKING How much warranty? Where in isb are u? 25k is ok?
    2015-05-07 16:503 out +923335120067 MBBS 1 year. Its brand new and warranty covered by Rizwan & Brothers I-8
    Islamabad. Actually I live in wah cantt and often come to Isb. If you are interested to buy then I can bring unit to Isb on my car. Or you can also visit wah cantt


    2015-05-07 16:574 in +923335120067 THINKING It's ok. We need to lock and agree on the price. If 25k is ok with you, I will
    confirm than you can bring the AC to ISB


    2015-05-07 16:58:10 out +923335120067 MBBS 25 k is too low. Last I will give you in 30k
    2015-05-07 16:592 in +923335120067 THINKING My range is 25
    2015-05-07 16:59:42 out +923335120067 MBBS You can check market rate as well. Believe you me in market its of 45k as its imported unit.


    2015-05-07 170:21 in +923335120067 THINKING I know but no one buy samsung in market. It's the issue.
    2015-05-07 170:49 in +923335120067 THINKING Make it 25 and let me know wen will u come to isb?
    2015-05-07 171:55 out +923335120067 MBBS Get a negotiated quote. We can have a deal. Its with warranty. Samsung is a brand and local ones don't match in performance to it


    2015-05-07 172:13 in +923335120067 THINKING Just.out of curiosity how did u get an extra unit?
    2015-05-07 17:103 out +923335120067 MBBS I bought two unit for house I.e one 1.5 ton and other 1 ton but rooms are bigger and it is left lying unused.


    2015-05-07 17:10:56 in +923335120067 THINKING Ok
    2015-05-07 17:11:10 in +923335120067 THINKING Wen will u.Come to isb?
    2015-05-07 17:14:35 out +923335120067 MBBS I can come after 20th may. Its season now. 30k is last. Believe you its loss to me as I am already offering in discount.


    2015-05-07 17:157 in +923335120067 THINKING Ok will let u know
    2015-05-07 17:17:45 out +923335120067 MBBS Your good name
    2015-05-07 17:18:30 in +923335120067 THINKING Hasnain
    2015-05-07 17:33:44 in +923335120067 THINKING Your?
    2015-05-07 17:35:46 out +923335120067 MBBS Talha Dar
    2015-05-07 22:267 in +923335120067 THINKING Bro I have checked. max I can manage is 27k. If it's ok let me know. Than u will have to deliver the air conditioner along with warranty


    card and everything in b12. My colleague will bring it to isb. I am assuming that ac is box pack brand new.


    2015-05-07 22:34:39 in +923335120067 THINKING B17 sorry for typo.
    2015-05-07 23:37:11 out +923335120067 MBBS If you have checked then you will also have checked price. Not possible less than 30


    2015-05-07 23:37:52 in +923335120067 THINKING Ok . Probably no deal than.
    2015-05-07 23:39:22 out +923335120067 MBBS May Allah bless us all
    2015-05-07 23:39:41 in +923335120067 THINKING Ameen
    2015-05-08 007:29 in +923335120067 THINKING Bro my offer stands. Do re consider if possible.
    2015-05-08 15:29:31 in +923335120067 THINKING Any consideration? Can you PleAse share the serial.number and warranty date details?


    2015-05-08 16:24:49 out +923335120067 MBBS Less than 30 not possible bro. I got another call offering 35.
    2015-05-08 16:25:53 in +923335120067 THINKING Ok
    2015-05-08 16:296 out +923335120067 MBBS Serial is mentioned on picture in ad
    2015-05-08 16:29:45 in +923335120067 THINKING Ok thanks
    2015-05-09 21:59:42 in +923335120067 THINKING Plz check shoprex.com samsung asg12 energy saver is available for 38k.
    2015-05-09 22:49:13 out +923335120067 MBBS Ok . what should I check?
    2015-05-10 12:37:16 in +923335120067 THINKING Aoa.What are the dates of warranty validity?Also share the contact details of Rizwan and brother i8 plz.


    2015-05-10 12:49:40 out +923335120067 MBBS If you are interested to buy then contact me or take it fro. Market. Its a brand new Ac in low price


    2015-05-10 17:54:35 in +923335120067 THINKING Will call u tomorrow morning around 12

  3. #62
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    Samsung units don't come with Installation Pipes. I bought one last year and Pipes were purchased separately.
    May be the Pipes given to buyer were of another unit and used but AC itself is new.

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    seems that buyer is playing quite smart. pushing seller for a refund, merely on his accusations which he can't proved till now if not disproved by seller. If seller can be generous enough to return the sold unit with same sale consideration, why can't the buyer pay at least some for wrong handling of the transaction and usage for some time, in the form that he uninstall it and return it back.

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    Quote Originally Posted by babarhyd View Post
    @Thinking Do u have proof of the shipment and any pictures where it's shown that the item sold is USED? @MBBS Do you proof, if the item sold is brand new and untouched? @Thinking at this point, what I think is you are trying to defame the guy just to get something out of it because some of your taya ka bete k dost ke chachoo nay mashwara diya hai k iski qeemet 15K sai ziada nahin thing. And asking for refund without returning the product is like dadagiri? Parhay likhay jahil kiyoon bantay ho bhai? He shipped u the item at ISB on his own expense. Now pay the shipment and return the product and get refund. Though you have installed it and gas leakage? Bhaijaan during installation some of the gas is leaked to remove the air. Please be reasonable. Either end it here with no grudges or return the product along with shipment and take your refund.

    That is entirely wrong - the system is vacuumed out with a vacuum pump before opening the block valves in the condensing unit. No gas is lost to "remove air"

    The system is then tested for superheat and subcooling to finalize the install for good performance.

    If someone tries to purge air from the lineset by your method - the refrigerant will be poisoned with air and will cause bad performance, e.g. it may show reasonable subcooling but the system may freeze up as the gas charge is actually low (guages will show high due to air being part of the charge - imagine it being "milawat")
    ZRS - Zulfiqar Racing Systems ..... - professionals at work - at crackwheels.com

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    If the unit is working good - check pressures and temperatures to confirm - then keep it, you saved a bit of money compared to market.

    If you just want the comfort of "naya itum" then you should have made sure it is actually naya. In this threads case - you can pump the system down, remove it - pack it up and return it to the seller and get a refund while handing it over.
    ZRS - Zulfiqar Racing Systems ..... - professionals at work - at crackwheels.com

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    well i didn't open this thread with an intention of refund.

    another 8 or 10K wouldn't make me a billionaire. since the unit was intended to be delivered as a gift it caused me severe embaracment once revealed that it was used.

    i know that there are 2 sides to every perspective.

    but now i know for sure that it was a used unit since Mr MBBS has not denied it once instead what he is defending is a refund case instead of admitting to a fraud and a lie.

    i am not sure how to go about it however if MBBS can live with a fraud so be it. i dont have any issues.

    probably a refund would have saved him personal guilt, which i think is already not there (common evolving issue in our society - we lie as an obligation, a habit and as a trait).

    no worries. lesson learnt is probably worth more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xulfiqar View Post
    That is entirely wrong - the system is vacuumed out with a vacuum pump before opening the block valves in the condensing unit. No gas is lost to "remove air"

    The system is then tested for superheat and subcooling to finalize the install for good performance.

    If someone tries to purge air from the lineset by your method - the refrigerant will be poisoned with air and will cause bad performance, e.g. it may show reasonable subcooling but the system may freeze up as the gas charge is actually low (guages will show high due to air being part of the charge - imagine it being "milawat")
    sir kuch asan alfaz main bhi smjha dain. couldnt get the procedure, how to check and verify the gas and functioning of the unit?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xulfiqar View Post
    That is entirely wrong - the system is vacuumed out with a vacuum pump before opening the block valves in the condensing unit. No gas is lost to "remove air"

    The system is then tested for superheat and subcooling to finalize the install for good performance.

    If someone tries to purge air from the lineset by your method - the refrigerant will be poisoned with air and will cause bad performance, e.g. it may show reasonable subcooling but the system may freeze up as the gas charge is actually low (guages will show high due to air being part of the charge - imagine it being "milawat")
    True we need a vacuum pump to take out the air and humidity mixture. BUT I doubt any installer personal in Pakistan uses pump. After connecting the refrigerant pipes they open up the hose with compressor on for 10 seconds to release air and humidity. In fact many split AC User Manuals have this method. Some of them are orient and Kenwood as I have myself read and installed these ACs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by babarhyd View Post
    True we need a vacuum pump to take out the air and humidity mixture. BUT I doubt any installer personal in Pakistan uses pump. After connecting the refrigerant pipes they open up the hose with compressor on for 10 seconds to release air and humidity. In fact many split AC User Manuals have this method. Some of them are orient and Kenwood as I have myself read and installed these ACs.
    I doubt these manuals were written by the original brand name holders. It is mandatory to vacuum out the lineset and inner unit to be 100% at control specification.

    lets take your case.

    if I simply open up the block valves and kick the compressor on with the liquid line removed to purge - what is the compressor going to suck in from the vapour line - My guess is the air in the line - which is perfect for poisoning the refrigerant.

    I too have installed such split ACs in my house and used to add a dryer to the liquid side and vacuumed out the unit, Usual consumers complain that "after service - the performance is not good - new pack ac performance is better.

    I find it hard to believe that they do not account for the "hawa ki milawat" in their pricey refrigerant - which completely messes up your readings on the manifold gauge set.

    every time your mechanic does a pump down and does this purge method - you will add some more air to the refrigerant.
    ZRS - Zulfiqar Racing Systems ..... - professionals at work - at crackwheels.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thinking View Post
    sir kuch asan alfaz main bhi smjha dain. couldnt get the procedure, how to check and verify the gas and functioning of the unit?
    the mechanic installing the lineset and condensing and evaporating units needs to pull a vacuum from a vacuum pump or at least an old fridge compressor to make sure there is absolutely nothing to compromise the refrigerant.

    Once the vacuum is applied - the gas block valves can be opened and the system checked for run pressure on both liquid and vapour side. If your AC has a TXV on the inner air handler the superheat is already managed, you need to set the subcooling.

    subcooling means the difference of the actual liquid line temperature and the saturation temperature according to the refrigerant being used. e.g. liquid line pressure after condenser at 278 psi means that the saturation temperature is 51C on the liquid line, We now measure the actual temperature of the liquid line with a thermocouple. We should be seeing about 47 C - that shows that the condenser removed 6C heat from the refrigerant.

    AC installation does not simply mean - laga ke thok do - gess daalo - paisay pakro aur faraar hojao.




    Please bear in mind - if the refrigerant has been exposed to an install like that in the past and then it was pumped down again to enable removal of the unit - the refrigerant is adulterated. You can somewhat verify this from measuring the run pressure vs temperature. If that is the case, you need to evacuate the charge and fill fresh refrigerant in there after vacuuming it out.

    I did fix such issues in Karachi in my aunt's house - its been a long time now but that AC still performs like a champ.
    ZRS - Zulfiqar Racing Systems ..... - professionals at work - at crackwheels.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xulfiqar View Post
    I doubt these manuals were written by the original brand name holders. It is mandatory to vacuum out the lineset and inner unit to be 100% at control specification.

    lets take your case.

    if I simply open up the block valves and kick the compressor on with the liquid line removed to purge - what is the compressor going to suck in from the vapour line - My guess is the air in the line - which is perfect for poisoning the refrigerant.

    I too have installed such split ACs in my house and used to add a dryer to the liquid side and vacuumed out the unit, Usual consumers complain that "after service - the performance is not good - new pack ac performance is better.

    I find it hard to believe that they do not account for the "hawa ki milawat" in their pricey refrigerant - which completely messes up your readings on the manifold gauge set.

    every time your mechanic does a pump down and does this purge method - you will add some more air to the refrigerant.
    can we assume that the new unit doesnt have this issue and doesnt require this whole procedure considering that the GAS is filled by the manufacturer presumably after vacumming the internals?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thinking View Post
    can we assume that the new unit doesnt have this issue and doesnt require this whole procedure considering that the GAS is filled by the manufacturer presumably after vacumming the internals?
    the gas is stored in the outdoor. The indoor has air, this air needs to be evacuated before releasing the gas
    haters gonna hate, potatoes gonna potate

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    as margallar said - the outer unit was vacuumed when the manufacturer added the refrigerant charge. The problem is the lineset and the inner handler (evaporator) that your mechanic installed. There is air (atmosphere) in both of them.
    ZRS - Zulfiqar Racing Systems ..... - professionals at work - at crackwheels.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by babarhyd View Post
    True we need a vacuum pump to take out the air and humidity mixture. BUT I doubt any installer personal in Pakistan uses pump. After connecting the refrigerant pipes they open up the hose with compressor on for 10 seconds to release air and humidity. In fact many split AC User Manuals have this method. Some of them are orient and Kenwood as I have myself read and installed these ACs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xulfiqar View Post
    I doubt these manuals were written by the original brand name holders. It is mandatory to vacuum out the lineset and inner unit to be 100% at control specification.

    lets take your case.

    if I simply open up the block valves and kick the compressor on with the liquid line removed to purge - what is the compressor going to suck in from the vapour line - My guess is the air in the line - which is perfect for poisoning the refrigerant.

    I too have installed such split ACs in my house and used to add a dryer to the liquid side and vacuumed out the unit, Usual consumers complain that "after service - the performance is not good - new pack ac performance is better.

    I find it hard to believe that they do not account for the "hawa ki milawat" in their pricey refrigerant - which completely messes up your readings on the manifold gauge set.

    every time your mechanic does a pump down and does this purge method - you will add some more air to the refrigerant.
    Yes I can vouch for what baberhyd said.. orients manual says nothing about vacume pump.
    RIP

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    Quote Originally Posted by qwertypoiu View Post
    Yes I can vouch for what baberhyd said.. orients manual says nothing about vacume pump.
    those manuals are best use for kindling then
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xulfiqar View Post
    those manuals are best use for kindling then
    After your comment, I went on to read more about installation of split ac's. Seems like purging air from pipes is old school method and was being used during 60s and 70s. After that vacuum pump is being used. Now SALUTE to KENWOOD and ORIENT manuals mentioning the decades old purging method for air and humidity. In fact the use of vacuum pump in modern split ac's is extremely easy.

    Will soon be buying vacuum pump now for installation of split ac's when needed.

    Thank You

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    From MBBS u can take medical prescriptions not AC
    I couldn't repair my breaks, so I made my horn louder...

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    I hate when it happens to someone during online sales....i remember long time ago i bought 3GS on kijiji and that was defective as it shuts down but i was like its my mistake and he took money with fraud as he definitely knew the fault.....so i will ask him on day of judgement ....so guys relax as this might be decided in world hereafter by Almighty that who is right and who is wrong....but one thing is sure....no action like that will go unnoticed so we better think of day when we die and stand in front of Allah.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by tjcivilian View Post
    From MBBS u can take medical prescriptions not AC
    true

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thinking View Post
    true
    tough i am not sure about dignosis in that case even.

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