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Thread: 2JZ-GTE Twin Turbos on a 2LT????

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    Default 2JZ-GTE Twin Turbos on a 2LT????

    Let me for once ask a dumb question and expect intelligent answers from the experts

    Is it conceivable to install the sequential twin-turbos off a 2JZ-GTE engine on a poor old 2LT and expect a fuller RPM range turbo performance? My interest in sequential twins set-up leads me to believe that the 2JZ-GTE use two CT20/6s or CT12s depending on models. When coupled with my desire to get rid of the 2LT on my CJ7 this seems to be a great way to try and roast the internals. Death by twin turbos should be a great samurai way to go for the old jap... but who knows the old man may even live to tell the tale!

    Anyhow, my research is hitting a wall after the wikipedia details. Please help and share views on compatibility that you may have.

    "The Mark IV Supra's twin turbos operated in sequential mode instead of the more common parallel mode. The sequential setup featured a pair of CT-12B turbos (for the JDM market, USDM market was CT20/CT20A with variations- some are ceramic- notorious, some are not. For UK market steel blades (CT-20/CT-20A)

    Initially all of the exhaust is routed to the first turbine for reduced lag. This resulted in boost and enhanced torque as early as 1800 rpm. Approaching 3500 rpm, some of the exhaust is routed to the second turbine for a "pre-boost" mode, although none of the compressor output is used by the engine at this point. Approaching 4000 rpm, the second turbo's output is used to augment the first turbo's output. As opposed to the parallel mode, the sequential turbos provides quicker low RPM response and increased high RPM boost."


    2JZ-GTE Twin Turbos on a 2LT???? - 130 0707 16 z1995 toyota supra2jz gte engine intake



    Thanks,
    SK

    "If YOU don't believe in what you're doing it'll never work."

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    Oh SK!!! That made my day. Sounds like a great idea to get rid of the 2LT. Could get just the turbos from the market anyways?

    RKR
    I will miss her, that RKR. She will always be the one that got away.
    But, life goes on. From RKR to MMC. 4x4 Engaged? Team Unimog, Pakistan

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    Quote Originally Posted by SuhaibKiani View Post
    Initially all of the exhaust is routed to the first turbine for reduced lag. This resulted in boost and enhanced torque as early as 1800 rpm. Approaching 3500 rpm, some of the exhaust is routed to the second turbine for a "pre-boost" mode, although none of the compressor output is used by the engine at this point. Approaching 4000 rpm, the second turbo's output is used to augment the first turbo's output. As opposed to the parallel mode, the sequential turbos provides quicker low RPM response and increased high RPM boost."


    Thanks,
    SK
    I have read this paragraph at least 4 times. Its such a beautiful paragraph, the picture one gets in one's mind is bliss.

    RKR
    I will miss her, that RKR. She will always be the one that got away.
    But, life goes on. From RKR to MMC. 4x4 Engaged? Team Unimog, Pakistan

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    Quote Originally Posted by raohamid View Post
    I have read this paragraph at least 4 times. Its such a beautiful paragraph, the picture one gets in one's mind is bliss.

    RKR

    Maharaj kee JaiHo!

    I do believe you can find the turbos around and rather cheap too.... But its gonna be quite a job to do a clean install. Nevertheless, does not seem all that impossible as long as you can make space in the engine bay. Some pics I found:

    2JZ-GTE Twin Turbos on a 2LT???? - Turbos

    2JZ-GTE Twin Turbos on a 2LT???? - jdm 2jzgte twinturbos

    2JZ-GTE Twin Turbos on a 2LT???? - gte partout1
    "If YOU don't believe in what you're doing it'll never work."

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    Its difficult to set it up.. real hard work.. but once done.. if done right that is.. it pays its dividends..

    Good luck with this project!

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    Instaling a turbo on a nonturbo engine is very deficult, because you have to increase your celender bore, other wise it will blow your head off ( not yours ).
    Life is thrill. Live it.

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    why not a compound turbo setup?a smaller one boosting the engine and spooling a bigger one for top end.but i doubt a 2l has that much rev to use the potential.why not simply slap on a 1kz ct12b boost it above 1 bar and call it a day.
    Dazed and confused.

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    @SK

    You probably are really unhappy with that 2LT....to me it looks like you are bent on relieving the old horse of its miseries.....
    Now going laymanish-techno......I guess a 2nd boost past 4000 (while the motor redlines at 4500) would be hard to handle by the infamous 2LT keeping in mind its past track record of busted heads.....rather would be hard for most diesels to sustain that kind of high rev range/abuse as a regular feature....don't you think so???? I'd go for a 1 KZ swap if I was a perfo buff and save up by trading in that 2LT while it still runs!
    MEN DO IT AT DAKAR!!!

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    as far as i know the twin turbo setup is a very complex, on both the exhaust and intake side, by complex i mean there are valves which route the exhaust and air where needed and when needed, all this is controlled by the ecu which in your case wont be there hence it will be near to impossible to get any or significant benifit
    its all about power to weight ratio...

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    If me memory serves me right.I saw a similar setup in a BMW 7 series diesel in a top gear episode.they used a small turbo to spool the bigger turbo.small turbo kicked in as low as 1500 RPM and main turbo kicked in @ around 3000 or 3500 RPM.Result is turbo boost as soon as u hit 1500 RPM and no turbo lag.But how BMW achieved it is another story.
    Found the link
    http://autospeed.com.au/cms/title_BM...4/article.html
    Qaiser Pal,I have not failed.But found 1 of 10,000 ways which doesn't work.....Toyota driver "I couldn't repair my brakes,so i made my horn louder"..When i was born i was so surprised that i didn't talked to one and half year..since light travel faster then sound,people appear bright until you hear them speak..If u can't convince them,confuse them

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    Quote Originally Posted by imtishal View Post
    If me memory serves me right.I saw a similar setup in a BMW 7 series diesel in a top gear episode.they used a small turbo to spool the bigger turbo.small turbo kicked in as low as 1500 RPM and main turbo kicked in @ around 3000 or 3500 RPM.Result is turbo boost as soon as u hit 1500 RPM and no turbo lag.But how BMW achieved it is another story.
    Found the link
    Browser Warning

    budget for the engineers at BMW for R&D: 1,000,000.00 USD

    I'm afraid SK's would be short by a few hundred dollars.

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    Quote Originally Posted by raohamid View Post
    I have read this paragraph at least 4 times. Its such a beautiful paragraph, the picture one gets in one's mind is bliss.

    RKR
    I'm sure you were feeling the turbos spool in your mind, one at 1800RPM and when you approached 4000 RPM you tightened yourself in place

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    Alright...thats good going

    Firstly to clarify, this is loud thinking on perhaps the only conceivable twin turbo panga with an engine that should not cause a major disaster (either emotionally, operationally or financially) if things go wrong. Alternatively, the same panga can be done on the 1KZT which will perhaps be better suited given its larger displacement albeit still 4 cyls vs 6 and much limited flexibility given electronic controls....

    @MitsuMan: I actually really really like my 2LT for a number of reasons and never went for a 1KZT upgrade primarily because in this particular case, I never could foresee a significant enough performance jump to justify the cost. With a mechanical pump its also easy to vary between race and economy settings, which are both quite enjoyable with a little extra boost on the CT20 turbo. I do agree that the 4000rpm second boost is too high and perhaps getting the whole boost pattern shifted down by at least 500rpms would be the most interesting challenge here....

    @Ghuncha: Are you sure that the valves are ecu controlled? From the photos I would have thought that they were mechanical with minimal electronics....

    @imitshal: Yes, I believe the BMW sequential twin-turbos are actually where I originally picked up the basic bug from. The TLC200 (and some LWB 70s) have the twin turbo VD engines and I was surprised to see that the 2JZ has a sequential set-up as reportedly these were sprawled all over our kabaar markets just about a few months back. Thanks for the link!

    @syncview: Actually, I am short by just those few hundred dollars that would be needed for the R&D here As a few friends of mine in college used to jokingly say about a friend from Ratta Amraal (Rawalpindi): "Talent ubhar raha thaa, ghurbat ne ooper se paaon rakh diyaa"

    Some questions, I struggle with at this stage:

    1. How can the JDM and the US market 2JZ-GTE's both have the same RPM ranges using two completely different sets of turbos?

    2. What are the possible ways of lowering the overall RPM band on the 2JZ turbo set-up?

    3. Can the same 2LT boost controller be made to work with the sequential set-up?
    "If YOU don't believe in what you're doing it'll never work."

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    "Talent ubhar raha thaa, ghurbat ne ooper se paaon rakh diyaa"

    hahhaha, excellent quote, loved it

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    Quote Originally Posted by SuhaibKiani View Post

    @Ghuncha: Are you sure that the valves are ecu controlled? From the photos I would have thought that they were mechanical with minimal electronics....
    yes i am pretty sure about the 2jz setup, you dont see any electronics but you see a lot of actuators whcih are electronically controlled, i have attached a picture of vacume diagram found under the bonnet of a supra twin turbo, have a look there are a lot of actuators and all of them are electronically controlled, have the workshop manual of MKIV supra too, in there the operation is explained, its more complex than one could imagine it, there are many modes of the operation of the twins, and its all electronically controlled. because of this complexity the later models of 1jz switched to single turbo setup(i assume)
    2JZ-GTE Twin Turbos on a 2LT???? -128366
    its all about power to weight ratio...

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    2JZ-GTE Twin Turbos on a 2LT???? -128367 2JZ-GTE Twin Turbos on a 2LT???? -128368 2JZ-GTE Twin Turbos on a 2LT???? -128369
    its all about power to weight ratio...

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    2JZ-GTE Twin Turbos on a 2LT???? -128370 2JZ-GTE Twin Turbos on a 2LT???? -128371

    in this ecu pin out you can see at least 4 vsv (vacume control valves, that controls the mechanical actuators) for the twin setup.
    its all about power to weight ratio...

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    i couldnt believe my friend when he said that with 2LT his cj7 starts to stall going uphill untill i saw it myself
    they the engine was thrown out and replaced with a 5L engine which i think was a wise choice. power and economy and speed is fine as well.

    this turbo panga is not worth it i think
    Life is short and very unpredictable just like a Quarter mile .....

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    A CT8 blowing into a CT20 will give you a broader boost range and will start to boost as low as 1000 rpm. External Wastegates with manual adjustments and a blow off valve are needed.

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    @SK

    Well amigo, you'd be adding another dish on the menu list in not so distant future....''ROASTED PISTON" and at phajja's it would be served as......''PISHTUN FRY''!!!!
    MEN DO IT AT DAKAR!!!

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