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Thread: Thermostat it?

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    Default Thermostat it?

    Gents,
    What do you folks with older model 4x4s do in the winter? Do you put back in your thermostat so that the 4x4 warms up quickly, or do you figure out a way to live with your love while she quivers and shakes and then warms up? (Oooops, that sounds kind of perverse). Islamabad winters can be cold, so do I put in a thermostat or is that not recommended? My buddi is from the late 80s.

    MMC

    I will miss her, that RKR. She will always be the one that got away.
    But, life goes on. From RKR to MMC. 4x4 Engaged? Team Unimog, Pakistan

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    Talking

    ^^+1 @ akifjanjua
    yaar the whole system has 3 to 4 items, why not get them working properly instead of going this far to avoid clearing the lines of your radiator or checking the condition of the water body - they are also parts of the engine and require maintenance

    I would again suggest that keep your foot a little down on accelerator in the morning while call a friend to say good morning before heading out. or call your mum and dad since you have moved out, they would be very happy to hear your voice

    its an old jeep hamid bhai - it will never stop squeaking, rattling and shivering in the morning. I am telling you, even after you have done all, it will still be doing the same thing embrace it and enjoy the feeling
    Bugged for Life....Easily Distracted by Land Rovers

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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Proverbial_Slang View Post
    Rao,

    That sounds like a good ides. I am not familiar with the condition of the motor in your mitsu. I would say you do it in the following order:


    1. Put the thermostat in without modification (This shopuld be good for the winters)
    2. In summers, if there is an issue, remove the jiggle pin (as shown in picture below. Just cut it off)
    3. If the motor still heats up at idle in traffic, drill a tiny hole opposite the jiggle pin hole. Do note that I installed a fan thermostat switch as well as the motor used to run a bit cold sometimes. Also, I installed an electric switch inside the cabin to bypass that electric thermo switch for extreme hot weather.

    Thermostat it? - 165685
    Thanks a lot. I have to say though that I don't think I would ever be able to pull off something like this. So in the summer, expect me to bug you plenty

    You seem like a DIY type of fellow, wish I could be more like that.

    MMC
    I will miss her, that RKR. She will always be the one that got away.
    But, life goes on. From RKR to MMC. 4x4 Engaged? Team Unimog, Pakistan

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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bugzy View Post
    ^^+1
    yaar the whole system has 3 to 4 items, why not get them working properly instead of going this far to avoid clearing the lines of your radiator or checking the condition of the water body - they are also parts of the engine and require maintenance

    I would again suggest that keep your foot a little down on accelerator in the morning while call a friend to say good morning before heading out. or call your mum and dad since you have moved out, they would be very happy to hear your voice

    its an old jeep hamid bhai - it will never stop squeaking, rattling and shivering in the morning. I am telling you, even after you have done all, it will still be doing the same thing embrace it and enjoy the feeling
    Oye Bug. I don't have any issues, but to get the freakin' heater working you need a thermostat if the motor is cold all the time. Sure, I needed you to remind me to call my parents. Bugger.

    Agree, it will never ride as good as new, the damn jeep can shiver all it wants, but I don't want to because of no heat! Ab aaya samajh?

    Had no idea a Bug didn't have a radiator!? Cool.

    MMC
    I will miss her, that RKR. She will always be the one that got away.
    But, life goes on. From RKR to MMC. 4x4 Engaged? Team Unimog, Pakistan

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    Quote Originally Posted by akifjanjua View Post
    Dont temper with the thermostat please

    DO not remove the jiggle pin or drill holes to increase flow.. it will only disturb the flow... i have done it and ruined one thermostat thats still lying somewhere in junk

    If a car is heating up even though it has a new working thermostat.. look else where in the cooling system... why do we always put the blame on the poor thermostat radiator, waterbody fins, fans, airflow etc etc.. they all are part of cooling system
    No Bro, no heat ups, the problem is the other way around right now, want the motor to heat up a bit Agree with you, the stat doesn't have to be the only thing mucked up. Thanks.

    MMC
    I will miss her, that RKR. She will always be the one that got away.
    But, life goes on. From RKR to MMC. 4x4 Engaged? Team Unimog, Pakistan

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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by raohamid View Post
    Oye Bug. I don't have any issues, but to get the freakin' heater working you need a thermostat if the motor is cold all the time. Sure, I needed you to remind me to call my parents. Bugger.

    Agree, it will never ride as good as new, the damn jeep can shiver all it wants, but I don't want to because of no heat! Ab aaya samajh?

    Had no idea a Bug didn't have a radiator!? Cool.

    MMC
    but guess what, it has an electric choke for cold mornings and its always half self start - those germans planned that thing for cold ice ages and heating vents are only in the feet under door panels (though mine dont work and I wear leather gloves and a scarf to drive it in winters but heck thats styling it

    check the parova thread i am uploading pics janj sent, those people are doing some amazing work there - making sand bag homes with two 12x12 rooms sustainable up to 8.2 rector scale shocks
    Bugged for Life....Easily Distracted by Land Rovers

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    @RAOMMC

    This R'n'D on the subject has turned pretty extensive.....you are likely to get rich by writing a book on it!
    Keeping in mind the bit I know about this motor( and in particular yours) I suggest you go by @proverbial_slang's formula....remove the pin and you'll be a happy man both for the summers and winters!
    MEN DO IT AT DAKAR!!!

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    if you guys face issues cooling down your diesels have you checked scale and rust buildup in the cooling jackets is not the culprit.. gents you drive a diesel engine and it needs heat to work efficiently and quietly.

    I had this problematic car given to me because of heatup issues - it was a 1984 5 cylinder mercedes 3 litre turbodiesel that would heat up for no good reason even with a new BEHR radiator.

    my remedy was to refill the fan clutch with the middle grade fluid toyota sells, descale the cooling system with citric acid, install 85 degree thermostat - then filling it with recommended coolant - the car worked perfectly and the fan clutch always caught at 100 degrees never less - it never overheated even on full throttle highway pulls

    another problem usually is the substandard water pumps we see now - the impelllers dont have a backing plate which causes severe cavitation and pump losses - coolant slows down as the liquid is beaten to a foam rather than being pushed as a stream of liquid
    ZRS - Zulfiqar Racing Systems ..... - professionals at work - at crackwheels.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xulfiqar View Post


    my remedy was to refill the fan clutch with the middle grade fluid toyota sells, descale the cooling system with citric acid, install 85 degree thermostat - then filling it with recommended coolant - the car worked perfectly and the fan clutch always caught at 100 degrees never less - it never overheated even on full throttle highway pulls
    interesting , would u kindly elaborate on the citric acid treatment procedure.

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    @laparwah

    Citric acid.....means lots of orange juice in mango jero!
    MEN DO IT AT DAKAR!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by MITSU_MAN View Post
    @laparwah

    Citric acid.....means lots of orange juice in mango jero!
    Hahaha , yah that will make mango jero khatti meethi

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    now tell him where to get that orange juice

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    i have posted this procedure in the fluids forum - anyway - citric acid = tartaree or tartaric acid.
    If you are reallllly skeptical go to any Mercedes benz shahnawaz outlet and ask them for a bottle of citrus flush
    ZRS - Zulfiqar Racing Systems ..... - professionals at work - at crackwheels.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by akifjanjua View Post
    Dont temper with the thermostat please

    DO not remove the jiggle pin or drill holes to increase flow.. it will only disturb the flow... i have done it and ruined one thermostat thats still lying somewhere in junk

    If a car is heating up even though it has a new working thermostat.. look else where in the cooling system... why do we always put the blame on the poor thermostat radiator, waterbody fins, fans, airflow etc etc.. they all are part of cooling system
    Bro, your advice is excellent for newer engines which have never been opened, and I would agree with you 100%.

    My advice however, is for people with older engines. If you go through my post, I mentioned 3 steps in it. those steps are for engines in various conditions.

    Havbing said that, let me tell you the reason why I suggested what I did. Older engines develop "hot spots" and insulated (scaled) in the cooling passages inside the engine. Because of these spots, the coolant or rather the water in the coolants starts making steam (tiny bubbles). Removing the pin gives them a better opportunity to go through the thermostat, hence ensuring better contact of your coolant with the walls of your engine's cooling passages.

    Also, in engines which are even weaker, steam is produced because of micro leakages in the head gasket. That combustion chamber heat is quite enough to creat tiny bubbole in your coolant which results in foaming.

    Removing the pin or drilling another hole will simply make it easier for your engine to cool itself more efficiently.

    Hope that helped
    Death is not the greatest loss in life. The greatest loss is what dies inside us while we live.

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    You guys are no doubt the heat up gurus
    Found myself an 82 degree original thermostat, now I need to find time to install the damn thing. I'll do the pin thing in the summer, right now, I'm craving for the heater to work.

    MMC
    I will miss her, that RKR. She will always be the one that got away.
    But, life goes on. From RKR to MMC. 4x4 Engaged? Team Unimog, Pakistan

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    Default Thermostat : Temp Issue : Performance

    My humble view on cooling system :
    1- Thermostat : Never remove it . Why ? Simply because newer engines post '90 are designed on higher operating temperature. Ever noticed why belt driven fan systems are being first replaced with hydralic assist fan and then with electric fans in original vehicles . Mostly the ideal temp settings are in the range of 80 to 90 deg C and most thermostats are set at 82 Deg c . The basic principle is that a thermostat starts opening up at ~ 82 deg C . Even if the temp does not reduce thru circulation thru the radiator , then the electronic fan starts to cut in ( ideally at 85 deg C ) . even if does not reduce the temp , then you know that you have a problem.
    2- Radiator Cap : It is a very important component of a cooling system . You will notice a pressure rating of 0.5 MPA written on some of the radiator caps . The theory that you mechanic tell you that radiator water should never boil becomes crap in case of a mis fit rating of a radiator cap . The science is that a relitively high pressure in the radiator , will increase the boiling point of water beyond 100 deg C . So a cap which over pressurises the cooling water does two damages :
    a- reduces water over flow to the over flow radiator bottle
    b- your water is under slight more pressure due to heat up and the boiling point increases beyond 100 Deg C . So your vehicle will heat up relatively more than it should and advantage of circulation in the over flow bottle will be negated.
    3- Fuel Consumption : Running engines a lower temp than designed has a negative impact on Specific Fuel Consumption and peak efficiency .
    4- Radiator performance : nature ( natural air draft ) , thermostat and radiator fan are three assistants than helps you keep temp in control . With a direct fan or a removed thermostat , you keep a lid on the two issues that can always creep up:
    a- Radiator heat exchange efficiency
    b- fouled up cooling medium ( water )


    All the above may seems theroatical , But as you ( and me ) start to go shopping for BHPs , Revs, Torque , Fuel Consumption , Turbos etc , please keep in mind that technology improvement comes at a cost of tighter operating parameters . Thermal expansions in engine coupled with viscosity of lube oil ( linked to temperature ) become more important . In a Diesel2 B , or a 1 C diesel the above may not be very valid but as you move towards 3 CT s , 1 KZ or high rev petrol engines which are mostly computerised , ideal operating temp of an engine is like driving a older diesel engine immeditely after an oil change . IT RUNS SMOOTHER .
    tc

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xulfiqar View Post
    i have posted this procedure in the fluids forum - anyway - citric acid = tartaree or tartaric acid.
    If you are reallllly skeptical go to any Mercedes benz shahnawaz outlet and ask them for a bottle of citrus flush
    Thanks for replying , i went through yr posts regarding it , thanks for sharing all the info

    regards

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    @ Proverbial_Slang, HasaanIqbal, Xulfiqar
    Excellent info brothers. Really got educated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HasaanIqbal View Post
    My humble view on cooling system :
    1- Thermostat : Never remove it . Why ? Simply because newer engines post '90 are designed on higher operating temperature. Ever noticed why belt driven fan systems are being first replaced with hydralic assist fan and then with electric fans in original vehicles . Mostly the ideal temp settings are in the range of 80 to 90 deg C and most thermostats are set at 82 Deg c . The basic principle is that a thermostat starts opening up at ~ 82 deg C . Even if the temp does not reduce thru circulation thru the radiator , then the electronic fan starts to cut in ( ideally at 85 deg C ) . even if does not reduce the temp , then you know that you have a problem.
    2- Radiator Cap : It is a very important component of a cooling system . You will notice a pressure rating of 0.5 MPA written on some of the radiator caps . The theory that you mechanic tell you that radiator water should never boil becomes crap in case of a mis fit rating of a radiator cap . The science is that a relitively high pressure in the radiator , will increase the boiling point of water beyond 100 deg C . So a cap which over pressurises the cooling water does two damages :
    a- reduces water over flow to the over flow radiator bottle
    b- your water is under slight more pressure due to heat up and the boiling point increases beyond 100 Deg C . So your vehicle will heat up relatively more than it should and advantage of circulation in the over flow bottle will be negated.
    3- Fuel Consumption : Running engines a lower temp than designed has a negative impact on Specific Fuel Consumption and peak efficiency .
    4- Radiator performance : nature ( natural air draft ) , thermostat and radiator fan are three assistants than helps you keep temp in control . With a direct fan or a removed thermostat , you keep a lid on the two issues that can always creep up:
    a- Radiator heat exchange efficiency
    b- fouled up cooling medium ( water )


    All the above may seems theroatical , But as you ( and me ) start to go shopping for BHPs , Revs, Torque , Fuel Consumption , Turbos etc , please keep in mind that technology improvement comes at a cost of tighter operating parameters . Thermal expansions in engine coupled with viscosity of lube oil ( linked to temperature ) become more important . In a Diesel2 B , or a 1 C diesel the above may not be very valid but as you move towards 3 CT s , 1 KZ or high rev petrol engines which are mostly computerised , ideal operating temp of an engine is like driving a older diesel engine immeditely after an oil change . IT RUNS SMOOTHER .
    tc
    Extremely well put. Thumbs up!

    MMC
    I will miss her, that RKR. She will always be the one that got away.
    But, life goes on. From RKR to MMC. 4x4 Engaged? Team Unimog, Pakistan

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    So, ok, guys, Thermostated it.

    Temperature isn't climbing higher than quarter on the gauge. What could be the issue? The Islamabad cold weather??

    MMC
    I will miss her, that RKR. She will always be the one that got away.
    But, life goes on. From RKR to MMC. 4x4 Engaged? Team Unimog, Pakistan

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    Rao Sahab, Are you getting enough heat from your fan.
    The best way to find is to fit a manual temp gauge. I fitted one to my Prado. For some toyota SUVs, the temp needle is set to not move much within a specific range i.e. stays in the middle even the though the temp might fluctuate between 15-20 degrees. there are resistor mods to make it linear.
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