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Thread: Neead Help (Mitsu, TLC, Kia Sportage, Nissan)

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    Default Neead Help (Mitsu, TLC, Kia Sportage, Nissan)

    Assalam-o-Alaikum All,
    I am planning to buy an Offroader with the following requirements:

    Comfort:
    By comfort i do not mean luxury. All i want to say that i would be traveling with my family so i need a vehicle which is a bit more comfortable than FJ40.

    Travel:
    I would be traveling to, lets say
    Hilly Areas (Once in a year): Naran, Skardu, Hunza, Chitral, Kelash, Panjpir, Sardhai, Sakesar, Nathiagali,
    Motorway/GT Road/Highway (Twice a year): Lahore, Karachi.
    Daily Commute: 30km max

    Fuel Economy:
    Currently i have Nissan Sunny (1997) Diesel 2000cc. And its giving me around 14km/l. I can afford upto 10-11km/l. But if anyone of you think i should go for petrol engine, as petrol is cheaper than diesel these days, please do mention it.

    Maintenance:
    I know maintaining a diesel engine is quite a hassle. It needs love. . So again if any of you think that i should go for a petrol engine, than please do mention it.

    Resale:
    Its not that a big issue for me.

    Budget:
    I million PKR (MAX)

    Parts Availability & Cost:
    Now i know Mitsu parts are expensive (i do not know abt the availability) but at the same time its purchase cost is also less. TLC parts are available (I do not know if they are cheaper than Mitsu's) but at the same time TLC's purchasing cost is high.


    Currently, vehicles that i am looking into are:
    • Mitsubishi Pajero (3 door)
    • Toyota Land Cruiser (3 door)
    • Nissan Patrol/Safari (3 door)
    • Kia Sportage 2003

    I am NOT a HARDCORE offroader but ive been to places where my current ride's road clearance, sometimes, becomes an issue and normally people do not take their sedans there. I like to explore new places and push the limits of my vehicle. Please do suggest me a suitable vehicle according to my requirements. Currently im inclined towards Mitsu with petrol engine but then again it has high maintenance and parts cost.


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    A Pajero with a petrol or diesel engine either way does not have high maintenance costs, the routine maintenance costs pretty much the same as the rest of the vehicles you have mentioned. As long as you spend a bit initially and get a good vehicle to start off with, you just need to maintain it and drive it with a little bit of sense and it won't say anything to you. I would recommend you stay away from Sportage, the Mitsu and LC are the top contenders, Patrols are a bit more utilitarian, they feel a bit like driving a truck and are thristy with the 4.2 compared to the 4D56 or the 4M40 Mitsubishi Pajero 3 door typical engines and the 2L, 2LT, 2LTE Toyota LC 3 door typical engines.

    Therefore I would remain in the realm of Pajero or LC. Now within these cars you need to consider the following:

    Pajero 4M40 is thristy but has good performance while the 4D56 is less thirsty but a bit sluggish in comparison. The best model you can get within your 1 million budget would be the 2nd Generation from 1991 to 1995ish in excellent condition, newer models will be perhaps out of your budget or beaten up. Make sure the turbo is working well.

    3 door LC will typically be the Landcruiser II or Landcruiser Prado models, the older boxy ones and the engines will typically be 2L variants such as the 2L itself, 2LT and 2LTE. You might get a PZ or KZ engine but these are pretty thristy, however have excellent torque. In one million you would get something between 1991 and 1993 in decent condition.

    I would go for the Pajero 4M40 for the following reasons:
    Much better and more modern looking than the TLC
    Comes with far more equipment than the equivalent TLC
    All parts are available but yes they are slightly dearer than the LC however you get a much better and slightly newer vehicle to start off with, so provided you drive it like you own it and not like you stole it little will go wrong.
    As said earlier, watch out for the turbo, watch out for the squeaky suspension (can be rectified easily with new parts but will cost you money and should you find a really good car with a squeaky suspension, use it as a bargaining point for negotiate down)
    Also the Pajero will be far better equipped so will really give you better value for money.
    "A car is just a car unless it's my car" - Faraz Arif

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    Default

    @farazarif....Excellently explained brother. I specially logged-in to appreciate your conclusive reply to this very subject that is asked frequently.

    Thumbs up!

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    @farazarif.... sir i must say im impressed the way you addressed my queries. One more thing i met someone today and he told me that:
    • Mitsu's Diesel Engine parts are easily available but Petrol Engine parts are not that easily available.
    • Secondly, if one is going for long high speed route, like motorway, then one must keep varying its speed between 100 and 120 km/h otherwise Mitsu Diesel engine shall stall.


    Are these claims true???

    I have read all other threads related to Mitsubishi Pajero and its comparison with Prado, Surf and Kia Sportage. But when i read the one in which raohamid bought his Mitsu Shogun, i mean thats much newer and stronger beast compared to what im planning to buy, even that was giving him problems on motorway. So, after reading that im confused what to opt.

    4x4 Experts! Your help is required.... LIBRA, MITSU_MAN, RAOHAMID, SAIDHI... where are you?

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    Default

    Seriously? No feedback yet?

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    Thanks for the appreciation guys,
    very kind of you,

    Regarding your queries madcyrus,

    The availability of parts really depends on what part exactly you are talking about, yes true that some of the mitsu petrol engine filters are not that widely available, with the diesel the 4D56 engine is virtually the same that is used in the popular Hyundai Shehzore, so parts are widely available for the engine in general but to be honest I don't really know what you mean by engine parts, please elaborate.

    For petrol Mitsus, the Hyundai Galloper in the middle-east are off shoots of the Pajero so their engine parts etc are very easily available and if you frequent the region you can pick up stuff from Dubai and the likes.

    Your long route stalling query is very funny, no man this is not true, does not even make mechanical sense unless there is something really wrong with your car which can of course be rectified by a mechanic, sounds like a choked air intake system to me.

    Regarding Mr. Rao's Pajero, I don't really know how it was much more powerful or what it was much more powerful than as I am not familiar with his particular Pajero but a single vehicle or experience can not be taken as representative of an entire manufacturing line, has your current Nissan Sunny never gone wrong? and does that mean all Nissan Sunny's are faulty?

    I have owned a number of Mitsubishi, Toyota and Suzuki 4 wheel drives, not one of them was trouble free other than the ones I bought brand new and sold within 3 years.

    When you buy a vehicle that is 15-20 years old you should expect teething problems, you will definately have a leaky hose, little bit oil seeping out, some bits and bobs here and there and therefore before you spend your money on buying a vehicle you need to set aside contingency costs, an old 4X4 is not a purchase it's a relationship,

    You buy the vehicle, you test it and get it to the standard that you want and then you just need to maintain it once you have reached the level of perfection that you desire from or can afford for your vehicle.
    "A car is just a car unless it's my car" - Faraz Arif

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    Quote Originally Posted by farazarif View Post
    Thanks for the appreciation guys,
    very kind of you,

    Regarding your queries madcyrus,

    The availability of parts really depends on what part exactly you are talking about, yes true that some of the mitsu petrol engine filters are not that widely available, with the diesel the 4D56 engine is virtually the same that is used in the popular Hyundai Shehzore, so parts are widely available for the engine in general but to be honest I don't really know what you mean by engine parts, please elaborate.

    For petrol Mitsus, the Hyundai Galloper in the middle-east are off shoots of the Pajero so their engine parts etc are very easily available and if you frequent the region you can pick up stuff from Dubai and the likes.

    Your long route stalling query is very funny, no man this is not true, does not even make mechanical sense unless there is something really wrong with your car which can of course be rectified by a mechanic, sounds like a choked air intake system to me.

    Regarding Mr. Rao's Pajero, I don't really know how it was much more powerful or what it was much more powerful than as I am not familiar with his particular Pajero but a single vehicle or experience can not be taken as representative of an entire manufacturing line, has your current Nissan Sunny never gone wrong? and does that mean all Nissan Sunny's are faulty?

    I have owned a number of Mitsubishi, Toyota and Suzuki 4 wheel drives, not one of them was trouble free other than the ones I bought brand new and sold within 3 years.

    When you buy a vehicle that is 15-20 years old you should expect teething problems, you will definately have a leaky hose, little bit oil seeping out, some bits and bobs here and there and therefore before you spend your money on buying a vehicle you need to set aside contingency costs, an old 4X4 is not a purchase it's a relationship,

    You buy the vehicle, you test it and get it to the standard that you want and then you just need to maintain it once you have reached the level of perfection that you desire from or can afford for your vehicle.
    @farazarif

    You've covered everything very nicely......hardly can add anything to it!

    @madcyrus
    A million (make that 2 or even 3) bucks lighter and maybe one starts to think he has brought an angel down from the milky way......but frankly, she is like one old wh**re who has seen better days with much richer masters who payed good price to part with their virginity! Now this ain't to discourage you from taking the plunge but just to make you wary of the fact that only the steadfast make it through the innumerable pit stops to the workshop ..... sometimes while going to the work or rushing to an urgent meeting clad in a nice suit with a necktie or sometimes with a cursing wife in the passenger seat condemning you to have bought this piece of junk over a rosy new cultus.....believe me most give in....only the real nuts (dumped by girl friends or, more seriously but very very luckily, divorced) stick around!
    If all this doesn't dampen your spirits and you feel you are up for the challenge.....shake some dust off that rusty cheque book and get yourself a man's best friend....a 4x4!
    But if you dig hot (unseduced....zero mileage) chics......the fun starts around TEN MILLION PKR, amigo!
    MEN DO IT AT DAKAR!!!

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    @mitsu man

    your response deserves a place in the "classics". if only you dont drift away (sometimes), you're likely to challange the shakespeare soul. but then only the drifter can be 4x4holic.

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    @mdkn @060270

    Thank you guys!
    MEN DO IT AT DAKAR!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by MITSU_MAN View Post
    @farazarif

    You've covered everything very nicely......hardly can add anything to it!

    @madcyrus
    A million (make that 2 or even 3) bucks lighter and maybe one starts to think he has brought an angel down from the milky way......but frankly, she is like one old wh**re who has seen better days with much richer masters who payed good price to part with their virginity! Now this ain't to discourage you from taking the plunge but just to make you wary of the fact that only the steadfast make it through the innumerable pit stops to the workshop ..... sometimes while going to the work or rushing to an urgent meeting clad in a nice suit with a necktie or sometimes with a cursing wife in the passenger seat condemning you to have bought this piece of junk over a rosy new cultus.....believe me most give in....only the real nuts (dumped by girl friends or, more seriously but very very luckily, divorced) stick around!
    If all this doesn't dampen your spirits and you feel you are up for the challenge.....shake some dust off that rusty cheque book and get yourself a man's best friend....a 4x4!
    But if you dig hot (unseduced....zero mileage) chics......the fun starts around TEN MILLION PKR, amigo!
    @MITSU_MAN
    Your sarcasm is off the charts as always. Just because I have low (its all relative, for me its pushing the limits of my budget, not everyone was born with a silver spoon) budget, doesnt mean that im any less of a 4x4 enthusiast. There is no harm if i want a lil comfort for my wife n kids. I dont like these new shiny toys like Cultus, Reborn, Corolla either, I like em old school. I have a Corolla 77 and and 89 along with Nissan Sunny 97. Ive been to Naran on my Corolla 77 with family. None of these cars has ever betrayed us. Sadly my 77 got severely crashed last saturday but even then the engine was running and we drove it back home. Purpose of mentioning is that i know how to maintain vehicles its been handed down to me from my father. Im not afraid of continuous maintenance. But, if the vehicle betrays me even after spending my hard-earned money and my time then its not the right vehicle for me. Its all abt ROI if im investing more and getting less in return then whats the benefit.

    All i want is a YES/NO answer for the following:
    Does Mitsu engine stalls if its kept at constant speed on motorway?
    Is petrol engine feasible according to my requirements and economy?
    Does petrol engine delivers the similar power as diesel? (I mean, i know, it cannot deliver the same but is it enough to go to the places i ve mentioned in my initial post?)

    I know im an amateur enthusiast with small pocket but a lil compassion wont hurt you but it will definitely helpl me! Thankyou all for your help!

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    Quote Originally Posted by farazarif View Post
    Thanks for the appreciation guys,
    very kind of you,

    Regarding your queries madcyrus,

    The availability of parts really depends on what part exactly you are talking about, yes true that some of the mitsu petrol engine filters are not that widely available, with the diesel the 4D56 engine is virtually the same that is used in the popular Hyundai Shehzore, so parts are widely available for the engine in general but to be honest I don't really know what you mean by engine parts, please elaborate.

    For petrol Mitsus, the Hyundai Galloper in the middle-east are off shoots of the Pajero so their engine parts etc are very easily available and if you frequent the region you can pick up stuff from Dubai and the likes.

    Your long route stalling query is very funny, no man this is not true, does not even make mechanical sense unless there is something really wrong with your car which can of course be rectified by a mechanic, sounds like a choked air intake system to me.

    Regarding Mr. Rao's Pajero, I don't really know how it was much more powerful or what it was much more powerful than as I am not familiar with his particular Pajero but a single vehicle or experience can not be taken as representative of an entire manufacturing line, has your current Nissan Sunny never gone wrong? and does that mean all Nissan Sunny's are faulty?

    I have owned a number of Mitsubishi, Toyota and Suzuki 4 wheel drives, not one of them was trouble free other than the ones I bought brand new and sold within 3 years.

    When you buy a vehicle that is 15-20 years old you should expect teething problems, you will definately have a leaky hose, little bit oil seeping out, some bits and bobs here and there and therefore before you spend your money on buying a vehicle you need to set aside contingency costs, an old 4X4 is not a purchase it's a relationship,

    You buy the vehicle, you test it and get it to the standard that you want and then you just need to maintain it once you have reached the level of perfection that you desire from or can afford for your vehicle.

    @farazarif
    Thankyou Sir! I got your point. And i must appreciate your way of explaining your point of veiw.

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    All i want is a YES/NO answer for the following:
    Does Mitsu engine stalls if its kept at constant speed on motorway?
    Is petrol engine feasible according to my requirements and economy?
    Does petrol engine delivers the similar power as diesel? (I mean, i know, it cannot deliver the same but is it enough to go to the places i ve mentioned in my initial post?)
    Yes! I have also heard similar problem with Mitsubishi's engine, It overheats if u drive it continuously at high speed...
    I have been told that this is the very reason for low resale of Mitsu + its low demand... Its almost a flop SUV for most people. I am also confused why does this happen? The reason i were told is that these were imported from xyz place where the weather is v. cool and these are not designed to work in such hot conditions..?? And theres a engine design flaw in them...
    Lame?? Ya.. i also think so...
    This is a ridiculous reason??
    Im also in search of the right ans ebt this over heating problem of Mitsu...

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    Pajero evolution doesn't has the same problem, as its engine is also not the same. + V6 ones also doesn't have this problem as far as i knw, the problem is with 2.5 ltr and 2.8Ltr Turbo diesel engines..

    One of my uncles kept 2 different Pajeros and now he has shifted to Toyota Surf due to the same problem. The ride is otherwise a real charm 4 daily driving, but dnt kn why its allergic to high speed constant operations?

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    Quote Originally Posted by madCYRUS View Post
    @MITSU_MAN
    Your sarcasm is off the charts as always. Just because I have low (its all relative, for me its pushing the limits of my budget, not everyone was born with a silver spoon) budget, doesnt mean that im any less of a 4x4 enthusiast. There is no harm if i want a lil comfort for my wife n kids. I dont like these new shiny toys like Cultus, Reborn, Corolla either, I like em old school. I have a Corolla 77 and and 89 along with Nissan Sunny 97. Ive been to Naran on my Corolla 77 with family. None of these cars has ever betrayed us. Sadly my 77 got severely crashed last saturday but even then the engine was running and we drove it back home. Purpose of mentioning is that i know how to maintain vehicles its been handed down to me from my father. Im not afraid of continuous maintenance. But, if the vehicle betrays me even after spending my hard-earned money and my time then its not the right vehicle for me. Its all abt ROI if im investing more and getting less in return then whats the benefit.

    All i want is a YES/NO answer for the following:
    Does Mitsu engine stalls if its kept at constant speed on motorway?
    Is petrol engine feasible according to my requirements and economy?
    Does petrol engine delivers the similar power as diesel? (I mean, i know, it cannot deliver the same but is it enough to go to the places i ve mentioned in my initial post?)

    I know im an amateur enthusiast with small pocket but a lil compassion wont hurt you but it will definitely helpl me! Thankyou all for your help!
    @madCYRUS

    Yup buddy you are right on the off the chart thing......I am different and that's why I like Mitsus......Would be driving TOYotas if were run of the mill material!!!
    Perhaps you didn't notice all the smileys and winks in my post......I mean most will laugh or atleast smile on what TRUTH I wrote over having old cars.....at not even one single time YOUR particular budget was in question.....was just a broad statement from my side! Believe me I do have a couple of 4x4s which fall well under that figure and yet I cherish 'em every time I take 'em out for a spin! Moreover, don't have any zero mile horse (even a zebra) in my stables! It's all up there in your gray matter.....if you redo one you are obviously more attached and that's the part I really enjoy......and, luckily or unluckily, am still not divorced so far!!!
    Coming to your Qs.....

    The 2500 motor was never meant for motorways.....its a jeep thing you HAVE to understand.....keep it below 3000 revs and will trot along happily forever....now with a manual tranny thats not gonna happen.....look for an auto GB if you have M2 on the cards!
    2800, 3200 DI-D, 3000 V6, 3500 V6, 3800 V6.... both auto and manual are good to go 120 kms non stop!
    Re power delivery.....varies from 75 to 275 horses depending on the motor and say a million rupee 4M40 (2800) should get 125..... and thats pretty ample!
    Gasoline versions are cheaper to hold on to in the long term but engine parts have to be imported from UAE......for a first timer would suggest a Diesel motor!
    Happy??????
    MEN DO IT AT DAKAR!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Automotorsport_Lover View Post
    Pajero evolution doesn't has the same problem, as its engine is also not the same. + V6 ones also doesn't have this problem as far as i knw, the problem is with 2.5 ltr and 2.8Ltr Turbo diesel engines..

    One of my uncles kept 2 different Pajeros and now he has shifted to Toyota Surf due to the same problem. The ride is otherwise a real charm 4 daily driving, but dnt kn why its allergic to high speed constant operations?
    @automotorsport_lover

    You have a 'firm grip on the obvious' when you talk of the EVO.....it is a class apart!
    But, bhai sahib, apney uncle se kahen @madCYRUS ko 10 lakh mae surf le dein ......get real dear...... the guy ear marked a specific budget and you are showing him the stars if not the moon!
    MEN DO IT AT DAKAR!!!

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    A guy on a Budget should not look for Suv's and especially if he cant easy afford fuel bills.

    I can afford upto 10-11km/l
    No Suv will give you that figures wither petrol or Diesel.

    Highway Travel
    Is quite Slow and bumpy plus dont forget the engine noise if Diesel. cant be compared with a Car(especially when one is looking at older models).


    2800, 3200 DI-D, 3000 V6, 3500 V6, 3800 V6.... both auto and manual are good to go 120 kms non stop!
    If ones lucky he can find a 2800 in under or around 1 million others i dont think so.

    according to budget


    you can get second gen surf, Pajero second gen, Hilux double cabin, 70 series Prado called land Cruiser II.

    i am guessing if all the above will be around 8-12 lacks. considering the budget of 1 million you should get one for 8 and spend 2 lacks on it to make it perfect.
    1) milage around 6 wither diesel or petrol
    2) slow then a car and noisy

    Option of CNG comes here. If you consider that then get a Land cruiser II with already petrol engine converted to CNG
    Sticking with Diesel then the second gen surf.

    About Pajero yes it gives heating problems and other stuff(even Mitsu man agreed ).

    if Mitsu_man has a Pajero to let go then go for it other wise get a TLC or stick to some car.
    RIP

  17. #17
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    Automotorsport_Lover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MITSU_MAN View Post
    @automotorsport_lover

    You have a 'firm grip on the obvious' when you talk of the EVO.....it is a class apart!
    But, bhai sahib, apney uncle se kahen @madCYRUS ko 10 lakh mae surf le dein ......get real dear...... the guy ear marked a specific budget and you are showing him the stars if not the moon!
    Lol bro i never meant to suggest poster to buy a surf, im just telling why people tend to get rid of Pajeros and buy Toyotas..

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by MITSU_MAN View Post
    @madCYRUS

    Yup buddy you are right on the off the chart thing......I am different and that's why I like Mitsus......Would be driving TOYotas if were run of the mill material!!!
    Perhaps you didn't notice all the smileys and winks in my post......I mean most will laugh or atleast smile on what TRUTH I wrote over having old cars.....at not even one single time YOUR particular budget was in question.....was just a broad statement from my side! Believe me I do have a couple of 4x4s which fall well under that figure and yet I cherish 'em every time I take 'em out for a spin! Moreover, don't have any zero mile horse (even a zebra) in my stables! It's all up there in your gray matter.....if you redo one you are obviously more attached and that's the part I really enjoy......and, luckily or unluckily, am still not divorced so far!!!
    Coming to your Qs.....

    The 2500 motor was never meant for motorways.....its a jeep thing you HAVE to understand.....keep it below 3000 revs and will trot along happily forever....now with a manual tranny thats not gonna happen.....look for an auto GB if you have M2 on the cards!
    2800, 3200 DI-D, 3000 V6, 3500 V6, 3800 V6.... both auto and manual are good to go 120 kms non stop!
    Re power delivery.....varies from 75 to 275 horses depending on the motor and say a million rupee 4M40 (2800) should get 125..... and thats pretty ample!
    Gasoline versions are cheaper to hold on to in the long term but engine parts have to be imported from UAE......for a first timer would suggest a Diesel motor!
    Happy??????
    Sorry sir, i forgot to add smileys in my post
    And yeah im much happier and satisfied now... Thankyou!
    I like diesel myself so I will definitely go for diesel.
    Regarding the jeep thing... do you think i will spend 1 mil just to have a sausage fest in the wilderness with charra party? I definitely want more than just a jeep.
    Now as you mentioned that 2500 motor is not meant for motorways but i can go for 2800... how abt this one?

    https://www.pakwheels.com/used-cars/...-lahore-267051

    One more question... what if i want to take it more than 120km/h on motorway? Dont be mad... im just kidding!
    Lots of smileys eh!

  19. #19
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    sajidd's Avatar
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    Do consider this, and basic consumables are easily available.

    https://www.pakwheels.com/used-cars/...karachi-262007
    Pakwatan Explorer

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by qwertypoiu View Post


    if Mitsu_man has a Pajero to let go then go for it other wise get a TLC or stick to some car.
    @qwerty

    That's a compliment, am honoured!!!
    Honestly speaking, there are far more enthusiastic guys who have much nicer Mitsus/other cars and are a source of inspiration to most of us.......and frankly I consider myself nowhere.....but hey amigo, thanks!
    MEN DO IT AT DAKAR!!!

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