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Thread: Pakistan 4x4 Rally Thread - Discussion

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    Quote Originally Posted by SuhaibKiani View Post
    ............................................. playing by rally rules in that the car in front should let me go if I had caught up after a 3 lap chase.......................................

    Rally rules...................on Go kart 15 foot wide asphalt track!!!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by nn View Post
    Rally rules...................on Go kart 15 foot wide asphalt track!!!!!!
    Well, at least we got NN talking again It was just a suggestion or maybe my wish to have gotten more GoPro screen time Was an amazing run actually, throughly enjoyable and I think the GoPro adds even more color to it! Should be even better in high res! Thanks again for the video NN!
    "If YOU don't believe in what you're doing it'll never work."

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    Quote Originally Posted by yaserag View Post
    whats IJC's plans for Mithi? am seriously thinking on the lines of a recce of this one...
    Got Roll Cage ????? Disengaged ABS????

    I can't participate for sure! Asad is going from IJC Team though the schedule change has messed up his work leave! NN I believe is still undecided at this stage! Will see if I can make it to shoot some video and photos! Otherwise, you know ke koi khaas coverage ka maza shayad nahin aayey ga
    "If YOU don't believe in what you're doing it'll never work."

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    Quote Originally Posted by SuhaibKiani View Post
    Got Roll Cage ????? Disengaged ABS????

    I can't participate for sure! Asad is going from IJC Team though the schedule change has messed up his work leave! NN I believe is still undecided at this stage! Will see if I can make it to shoot some video and photos! Otherwise, you know ke koi khaas coverage ka maza shayad nahin aayey ga
    Roll cage, not yet... did put pen to paper and came up with some sketches on how i want to go about it.... dont want to mess the interior up too much. Am looking to utilize the mounts of the front and rear seats to have a full bolt on cage. Did some tweaking on the chip, have decided on a optimal setting (dont want the engine to die on me either). Dont want to mess with the electrics, so the ABS stays. Haven't come across anything substantial on the net that would lead me to do away with the ABS. Do you know something that i dont? 4 point harnesses have arrived as well. Will be ready with the safety equip in the next few weeks.. the real bummer is the shocks... as much as i want to invest in a good set of 2.5" shockers, my finances are really messed up . Ambition bohot hai lekin jaib khali hai! looking to the end of the year for things to improve...

    Btw NN, i remember you ran your stock 100 series in cholistan a couple of years ago, how did the suspension hold up then? if things dont work out i might be running it with the stock shockers.

    suhaib, whats the status on Paulinas younger sister... really interested in how that rig turns out
    More Power!!! More power....

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    Unclip the electric wires of ABS right next to ABS Unit, when you return to tarmac, just clip them back and ABS will be back to normal.

    You will not be able to brake in sand or dust with ABS, kindly do not try it as well because I rolled my Surf in Cholistan 2008 just because i could not brake on sand.

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    Quote Originally Posted by yaserag View Post
    Roll cage, not yet... did put pen to paper and came up with some sketches on how i want to go about it.... dont want to mess the interior up too much. Am looking to utilize the mounts of the front and rear seats to have a full bolt on cage. Did some tweaking on the chip, have decided on a optimal setting (dont want the engine to die on me either). Dont want to mess with the electrics, so the ABS stays. Haven't come across anything substantial on the net that would lead me to do away with the ABS. Do you know something that i dont? 4 point harnesses have arrived as well. Will be ready with the safety equip in the next few weeks.. the real bummer is the shocks... as much as i want to invest in a good set of 2.5" shockers, my finances are really messed up . Ambition bohot hai lekin jaib khali hai! looking to the end of the year for things to improve...

    Btw NN, i remember you ran your stock 100 series in cholistan a couple of years ago, how did the suspension hold up then? if things dont work out i might be running it with the stock shockers.

    suhaib, whats the status on Paulinas younger sister... really interested in how that rig turns out
    I have heard that ABS causes problems in the sand in the sense that the brakes don't grip, though not too sure how far that holds true. Mounting roll cage to seat bolts..... works I guess! Personally I am not a fan of the Surf stock shocks which are on the soft side and probably better suited for trail riding. Do you know what are the shock lengths? The twin turbo Paulina II is now done with mechanicals and next phase of electricals and roll cage stuff should be started soon! Yeah, it should drive the wheels off everything else I guess
    "If YOU don't believe in what you're doing it'll never work."

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    Quote Originally Posted by SuhaibKiani View Post
    .........................Thanks again for the video NN!
    Welcome, me tooo pleased with GoPro!

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    Quote Originally Posted by yaserag View Post
    ............................................Dont want to mess with the electrics, so the ABS stays. Haven't come across anything substantial on the net that would lead me to do away with the ABS. Do you know something that i dont?.............................

    Btw NN, i remember you ran your stock 100 series in cholistan a couple of years ago, how did the suspension hold up then? if things dont work out i might be running it with the stock shockers.

    @ Yaser, I was all set to go to Mithi, until they changed the date to a week later, I have to be in ISB on 18th.

    The ABS should be switched off for better braking in Gravel, Sand and snow, otherwise you just roll on top of the loose stuff rather then the tyres digging in and collecting gravel / sand / snow causing a sort of wedge in front of the wheels to slow down quickly. Also during fast travel on uneven surfaces the abs will gets confused and stopping distance is invariably increased. Disconnect the wire as Qasim said, or sometime there is a separate fuse for it. Also disengage the airbags if any, you don't want them deploying in your face on a sudden hard jump landing.

    Finally my TLC coped ok with cholistan 2010. But than I was only driving it at 70% or so, Only in qualifying we tried maybe 90% or so. Firstly it was my first rally, 2ndly it was our travelling vehicle from ISB to Cholistan n back, and it was absolutely stock. We only put on a roll cage, because it was made mandatory in cholistan 2010, before that only open top vehicles had to have it, hardtop's rollcage were optional. Only weight reduction we attempted was removal of 2nd spare tyre (it come with two spare tyres). we didn't even remove the rear seats! Used our AC 20% of the time, hit an indicated 148kmph max on a straight stretch. I lifted off the accelerator on most of the bumps n jumps to try n save for remaining rally and the return jouney. The shocks were ok after 228km rally. The rear ones were possibly a bit soft, more noticible with 5-6+ people on board or maybe it was all in the mind. So changed the rear shocks eventually. The front has torsion bars, and wheel travel is relatively limited so shock survived ok!

    However I would suggest to get double shocks all round. Get proper mounts (adday) made, you can later on use them for better auxillary shock. I think properly made Adday / mounts will be no more than 15000Rs and just get 4 KYB or tokico shocks which will again be approx 15000rs. Good Luck!

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    Quote Originally Posted by nn View Post
    Welcome, me tooo pleased with GoPro!
    Which one are you using? what mode were u running during the kart videos?
    More Power!!! More power....

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    Quote Originally Posted by nn View Post
    @ Yaser, I was all set to go to Mithi, until they changed the date to a week later, I have to be in ISB on 18th.

    The ABS should be switched off for better braking in Gravel, Sand and snow, otherwise you just roll on top of the loose stuff rather then the tyres digging in and collecting gravel / sand / snow causing a sort of wedge in front of the wheels to slow down quickly. Also during fast travel on uneven surfaces the abs will gets confused and stopping distance is invariably increased. Disconnect the wire as Qasim said, or sometime there is a separate fuse for it. Also disengage the airbags if any, you don't want them deploying in your face on a sudden hard jump landing.

    Finally my TLC coped ok with cholistan 2010. But than I was only driving it at 70% or so, Only in qualifying we tried maybe 90% or so. Firstly it was my first rally, 2ndly it was our travelling vehicle from ISB to Cholistan n back, and it was absolutely stock. We only put on a roll cage, because it was made mandatory in cholistan 2010, before that only open top vehicles had to have it, hardtop's rollcage were optional. Only weight reduction we attempted was removal of 2nd spare tyre (it come with two spare tyres). we didn't even remove the rear seats! Used our AC 20% of the time, hit an indicated 148kmph max on a straight stretch. I lifted off the accelerator on most of the bumps n jumps to try n save for remaining rally and the return jouney. The shocks were ok after 228km rally. The rear ones were possibly a bit soft, more noticible with 5-6+ people on board or maybe it was all in the mind. So changed the rear shocks eventually. The front has torsion bars, and wheel travel is relatively limited so shock survived ok!

    However I would suggest to get double shocks all round. Get proper mounts (adday) made, you can later on use them for better auxillary shock. I think properly made Adday / mounts will be no more than 15000Rs and just get 4 KYB or tokico shocks which will again be approx 15000rs. Good Luck!
    Yeah the timing on Mithi is the killer, Us nokri waalas are struggling with it, begining or end of the month suits me better..

    I can understand locked wheels creating a sand/gravel wedge which will aid braking vs just rolling over the stuff... the ABS getting confused? im not so sure... the sensor just picks up whether the wheel is jammed which happens if you slam on the brakes hard regardless of the surface... i would think locked wheels on gravel would be worse for braking as it would be akin to skating on ball bearings... might behave better in sand tho... i'll just go with what you experienced guys are saying and just disengage the stuff... experimenting with both the ABS on and off is def on the list for testing ... Airbags will be disengaged for the rally... def a no-brainer

    I'm sold on resis... the difference is between 2" bilsteins and Radflos which will be an economical solution (relatively) and going full monty on a set 2.5" Fox or radflos which are the real deal for racing... problem with the latter is i just cant dish out the cash for them right now... the difference is almost double without figuring in duties etc. ... am thinking about going in with the former solution as i have decided to eventually go for a purpose built rig (money pit) for rallying (the mrs. doesnt know as yet)... and the surf will serve as the expedition/toeing rig for the rally vehicle .. the 2" shockers should be able to take 200 odd kms of the rally quite comfortably...

    Thanks for the tips Doc...
    More Power!!! More power....

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    Quote Originally Posted by SuhaibKiani View Post
    I have heard that ABS causes problems in the sand in the sense that the brakes don't grip, though not too sure how far that holds true. Mounting roll cage to seat bolts..... works I guess! Personally I am not a fan of the Surf stock shocks which are on the soft side and probably better suited for trail riding. Do you know what are the shock lengths? The twin turbo Paulina II is now done with mechanicals and next phase of electricals and roll cage stuff should be started soon! Yeah, it should drive the wheels off everything else I guess
    Yeah the surf is def a mall cruiser with the stock shocks which are Tokicos btw... they have to go before cholistan... which should be manageable. The surf doesnt get the radical rally makeover as it will become a trail/expedition rig... the rally hilux will be born Eventually!
    More Power!!! More power....

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    Quote Originally Posted by yaserag View Post
    Which one are you using? what mode were u running during the kart videos?
    Its a Hero2, mounted on helmet with simple suction cup, later on clamped on steering wheel for Asad's run. Used simplist vdo recording mode with smallest file size i.e wvga @ 50fps. Even with that our 16 minute run was 1GB file size. For bigger file sizes will need to buy a new computer for editing purpose! Full HD creates over three times the file size. And so rally at lowest setting would be a minimum of 9-10GB! And even that is just fine for watching but getting out clips for uploading will be ...............................!

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    Quote Originally Posted by yaserag View Post
    I can understand locked wheels creating a sand/gravel wedge which will aid braking vs just rolling over the stuff... the ABS getting confused? im not so sure... the sensor just picks up whether the wheel is jammed which happens if you slam on the brakes hard regardless of the surface... i would think locked wheels on gravel would be worse for braking as it would be akin to skating on ball bearings... might behave better in sand tho...........................
    If you are assuming there is absolutely hard flat surface under the single / thin layer of gravel stone? Only than you will get ball bearing effect! Otherwise the vehicle always digs and slows down better than even on proper road. The ball bearing effect is actually more with ABS as you are rolling on top which causes gravel stones to roll as well! Also going fast on uneven surface also has opposite effect from ABS, logic behind that is that if its quite uneven and if you are travelling fast more often than not wheels will be coming off the road / tarmac / ground and when in air very little force is required to lock the wheel, so it reduces the piston pressure a lot more and hence distance is invaribly increased if only slightly.

    In my experience (not an expert, but 20+ years using ABS equipped vehicles) the ABS only ever helps in wet road in reducing the braking distance, while steeribilty is improved on dryroad, wet road and black ice. The rest is quite variable.

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    Does one really need brakes in Cholistan
    "If YOU don't believe in what you're doing it'll never work."

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    Quote Originally Posted by SuhaibKiani View Post
    Does one really need brakes in Cholistan
    interesting point.... i would think only when youve messed up royally and have to save yourself from the inevitable DNF... which you might end up getting anyway
    More Power!!! More power....

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    Quote Originally Posted by nn View Post
    Its a Hero2, mounted on helmet with simple suction cup, later on clamped on steering wheel for Asad's run. Used simplist vdo recording mode with smallest file size i.e wvga @ 50fps. Even with that our 16 minute run was 1GB file size. For bigger file sizes will need to buy a new computer for editing purpose! Full HD creates over three times the file size. And so rally at lowest setting would be a minimum of 9-10GB! And even that is just fine for watching but getting out clips for uploading will be ...............................!
    They just launched the the Hero3 series... entry level at $199 thinking of picking one up meself...
    More Power!!! More power....

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    Quote Originally Posted by yaserag View Post
    They just launched the the Hero3 series... entry level at $199 thinking of picking one up meself...
    Mine arrived just 10 days ago...................so going thru mixed feelings

    Hero3 has 200$, 300$ and 400$ variety. Apart from smaller size and builtin wifi (which is an option for Hero2) the specs generally are same for 200$ edition as the original Hero, The 300$ is same as Hero 2. And 400USD one is state of art and if you are gonna buy it, might as well go full monty with 400USD black edition with top quality etc etc!

    Hero3 has smaller size and better resolution. The smaller size means battery is smaller and hence battery life is reduced, (less than 70% compared to before, according to two initial reviews I read). Note GoPro haven't mentioned battery life on their website for Hero3. I guess they are heading same direction as mobile phones, before one could wait for 2-3 days before charging the phones, and now the phone can do lots more at the expence of battery life some friend need to charge almost twice a day to be on the safe side! Also due to extreme resolutions available beyond ordinary HD, file sizes are gonna be ginormous, It does offers pro-level vdo n still capture, but I am currently not in the mood of buying new PC and lots of extra hard drives! Also mounting hardware such as helmet mounts or suction cups are no longer included and are optional extras!

    Sour Grapes........maybe......maybe not!

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    Quote Originally Posted by nn View Post
    Mine arrived just 10 days ago...................so going thru mixed feelings

    Hero3 has 200$, 300$ and 400$ variety. Apart from smaller size and builtin wifi (which is an option for Hero2) the specs generally are same for 200$ edition as the original Hero, The 300$ is same as Hero 2. And 400USD one is state of art and if you are gonna buy it, might as well go full monty with 400USD black edition with top quality etc etc!

    Hero3 has smaller size and better resolution. The smaller size means battery is smaller and hence battery life is reduced, (less than 70% compared to before, according to two initial reviews I read). Note GoPro haven't mentioned battery life on their website for Hero3, but they used to boast about it with hero2. I guess they are heading same direction as mobile phones, before one could wait for 2-3 days before charging the phones, and now the phone can do lots more at the expence of battery life some friend need to charge almost twice a day to be on the safe side! Also due to extreme resolutions available beyond ordinary HD, file sizes are gonna be ginormous, It does offers pro-level vdo n still capture, but I am currently not in the mood of buying new PC and lots of extra hard drives! Also mounting hardware such as helmet mounts or suction cups are no longer included and are optional extras!

    Sour Grapes........maybe......maybe not!
    Guys rally thread ahhhm!!!!????
    "If YOU don't believe in what you're doing it'll never work."

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    Quote Originally Posted by SuhaibKiani View Post
    Guys rally thread ahhhm!!!!????
    Bhai, rally kay liya hee khareeda hai!

    Baqaul aap kay, rally tau hotee rahay gee, coverage achee honi chahiya!

    BTW few days before the delay in rally was announced, got hold of Tyres similar to my TLC for NPP, Used the 16X8JJ steelies I had already to run them on NPP. They were put on for better drive on sand with lower pressures! ALAS!

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    Quote Originally Posted by nn View Post
    Bhai, rally kay liya hee khareeda hai!

    Baqaul aap kay, rally tau hotee rahay gee, coverage achee honi chahiya!

    BTW few days before the delay in rally was announced, got hold of Tyres similar to my TLC for NPP, Used the 16X8JJ steelies I had already to run them on NPP. They were put on for better drive on sand with lower pressures! ALAS!
    brand and model of tyres please?
    its all about power to weight ratio...

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