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Thread: Pakistan 4x4 Rally Thread - Discussion

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    Quote Originally Posted by yaserag View Post
    Qasim, just saw the videos of the VTC... it looks quite potent
    It is,, thats why I purchased it. Had a drag with the same Nissan last year,,, VTC killed my manual Evo in every gear. VTC Nissan has a top speed of 220 on motorway, evo dies at 180.

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    Quote Originally Posted by saidhi View Post
    It is,, thats why I purchased it. Had a drag with the same Nissan last year,,, VTC killed my manual Evo in every gear. VTC Nissan has a top speed of 220 on motorway, evo dies at 180.
    btw, you'd mentioned you were running some Thai shocks on the evo, are these Profenders or some other make... how are they performance wise? also would like to drop in sometime and check the mods youve done to the A arms and shock mounts to house these and the Kings....
    More Power!!! More power....

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    Quote Originally Posted by yaserag View Post
    btw, you'd mentioned you were running some Thai shocks on the evo, are these Profenders or some other make... how are they performance wise? also would like to drop in sometime and check the mods youve done to the A arms and shock mounts to house these and the Kings....
    I am using Hot Bits and Kings on Evo, my VTC has Proflex

    Rally wali Evo is parked at my parents, we will have to go to Iqbal Town to check it and since parents sleep early, it has to be either before 9 pm on a working day or during day on Sunday

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    Quote Originally Posted by yaserag View Post
    btw, you'd mentioned you were running some Thai shocks on the evo, are these Profenders or some other make... how are they performance wise? also would like to drop in sometime and check the mods youve done to the A arms and shock mounts to house these and the Kings....
    Profender is sort of a budget brand and I have not seen any real performance reviews of them though they seem tohave a good product line. Not fully sure about Hotbits but King and Proflex are in a professional league along with Reiger....
    "If YOU don't believe in what you're doing it'll never work."

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    Quote Originally Posted by yaserag View Post
    on the subject of jugars, are cv axles found on most of our 4x4s hollow or solid? either way has anyone attempted to lengthen them to increase track width with any success?
    Not really well versed with IFS/IRS but I would think CV axles are solid.

    On lengthening, nahin aisa koi panga yahan nahin hota. Axles probably cannot be lengthened though I understand new ones can be casted/crafted though reliability remains an issue (on locally done solid axles) primarily owing to materials used. Axles you could possibly swap with a wider track vehicle but the control arms is where the real art lies with managing the caster/camber issues to material quality and welding.

    Nevertheless, if there is a long travel kit in front of you, replicating it would be worth a shot
    "If YOU don't believe in what you're doing it'll never work."

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    Quote Originally Posted by SuhaibKiani View Post
    Not really well versed with IFS/IRS but I would think CV axles are solid.

    On lengthening, nahin aisa koi panga yahan nahin hota. Axles probably cannot be lengthened though I understand new ones can be casted/crafted though reliability remains an issue (on locally done solid axles) primarily owing to materials used. Axles you could possibly swap with a wider track vehicle but the control arms is where the real art lies with managing the caster/camber issues to material quality and welding.

    Nevertheless, if there is a long travel kit in front of you, replicating it would be worth a shot
    ive actually heard that most of them are hollow since tubes perform better under twisting forces...guess i need to subject one to some destructive testing to find out... i am researching longer axles but there isnt a lot of material available on cv swaps... T100 axles are required for the total chaos kit on the hilux... will have to see if one could put LC200 cvs on the hilux... personally having locally developed spares for a living when i was with ICI if the cv shafts are hollow it might be worth a shot to lengthen them... reliability would be the main concern. interestingly control arms arent that difficult to fabricate if you study the science behind them...heres a shot of the lotus 7 replica chassis that i put together from scratch...the control arms have been fabricated by moi ... as is the frame...

    and sk, youre reading my mind.... im thinking reverse engineering big time

    Ultimate 4x4 Rally Threadrally database  rally discussion -413472
    More Power!!! More power....

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    Quote Originally Posted by SuhaibKiani View Post
    Profender is sort of a budget brand and I have not seen any real performance reviews of them though they seem tohave a good product line. Not fully sure about Hotbits but King and Proflex are in a professional league along with Reiger....
    did some research turns out hotbits are actually malaysian... the funny thing is all these other brands are slightly cheaper than kings and fox... i wouldnt mind bringing them in but the real bummer is our customs... i got a couple of bilsteins for my lotus replica a while ago... needless to say shiny new shocks got their attention and i had to pay through my nose to get em out...
    More Power!!! More power....

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    Quote Originally Posted by yaserag View Post
    ive actually heard that most of them are hollow since tubes perform better under twisting forces...guess i need to subject one to some destructive testing to find out... i am researching longer axles but there isnt a lot of material available on cv swaps... T100 axles are required for the total chaos kit on the hilux... will have to see if one could put LC200 cvs on the hilux... personally having locally developed spares for a living when i was with ICI if the cv shafts are hollow it might be worth a shot to lengthen them... reliability would be the main concern. interestingly control arms arent that difficult to fabricate if you study the science behind them...heres a shot of the lotus 7 replica chassis that i put together from scratch...the control arms have been fabricated by moi ... as is the frame...

    and sk, youre reading my mind.... im thinking reverse engineering big time

    Pakistan 4x4 Rally Thread -  Discussion - 413472
    Ummm, hmmmmm, OK! How much of this "Lotus" frame did you actually do yourself? More pics needed can't see the control arms!

    On the local IFS Jugar, yes the control arms are probably doable if you have time and are have some metallurgy and welding experience. You probably know some CNC and CAD guys around which would help as well if your really going about it the right way. Ideally these should be made out of chromoly... I would look into using TLC 100 front CV axles or get Tundra/T100 axles from Dubai and not bother about lengthening axles, its doable but it just won't last unless you go aeronautical with it and it starts becoming cheaper to get US aftermarket stuff.....

    Just though you'd like the photo, as its probably something close to what your aiming for! Anyways good to see that you took my advice literally of having figured out the long term plan before you start off with a stock car and then build (read destroy) it bit by bit!

    Ultimate 4x4 Rally Threadrally database  rally discussion -413537
    "If YOU don't believe in what you're doing it'll never work."

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    Quote Originally Posted by SuhaibKiani View Post
    Ummm, hmmmmm, OK! How much of this "Lotus" frame did you actually do yourself? More pics needed can't see the control arms!

    On the local IFS Jugar, yes the control arms are probably doable if you have time and are have some metallurgy and welding experience. You probably know some CNC and CAD guys around which would help as well if your really going about it the right way. Ideally these should be made out of chromoly... I would look into using TLC 100 front CV axles or get Tundra/T100 axles from Dubai and not bother about lengthening axles, its doable but it just won't last unless you go aeronautical with it and it starts becoming cheaper to get US aftermarket stuff.....

    Just though you'd like the photo, as its probably something close to what your aiming for! Anyways good to see that you took my advice literally of having figured out the long term plan before you start off with a stock car and then build (read destroy) it bit by bit!

    Pakistan 4x4 Rally Thread -  Discussion - 413537
    firstly, The lotus: the plan for the chassis based on mkii escort running gear is widely available on the net... i had to extend it a little at the front to fit a 12R corona engine that id fit in earlier.. the 4age came in later once the frame was put through the motions... as for how much fabrication (read welding) ive done on it... well mostly the tack welds just to make sure the dimensions on the things were right... got a proper welder to weld it up once it was finished ... and yes i have a small welding plant at home...along with some other goodies .. the triangular a arms are simply 3/4" carbon steel rods with a reinforced 4mm web in between.. dont have a closeup at the moment.

    chrome moly is THE option if you want to stay light... if you want to do it paki style you have to go boxed... as strong if not stronger but definitely heavier... ive attached an illustration of boxed arms along with the post...

    agree with you on the CV axles... extension is doable but TLC or tundra axles would just make more sense...

    lastly my "tanga " as qasim likes to put it ... well all the fun is in the hacking/ tinkering/ destroying bit ... putting up a good show in a rally would just be the proverbial cherry on top...interesting 4runner...dont see springs upfront which means hes prob running the stock torsion bars setup albeit with aftermarket bars... it would be interesting to see the steering setup as theres some serious fabrication on the underside of this thing... on another note sk, when do we put another 10" of wheelbase on the concordia? maybe an lc80 front axle, longer variable rate springs etc etc.... i can be your consultant on it... i work pro bono on such things Ultimate 4x4 Rally Threadrally database  rally discussion -413591

    Ultimate 4x4 Rally Threadrally database  rally discussion -413592

    Ultimate 4x4 Rally Threadrally database  rally discussion -413593
    More Power!!! More power....

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    Quote Originally Posted by yaserag View Post
    ... on another note sk, when do we put another 10" of wheelbase on the concordia? maybe an lc80 front axle, longer variable rate springs etc etc.... i can be your consultant on it... i work pro bono on such things
    Well looking at those lotus control arms, I think I will take up that pro bono consultancy offer As to the "when", I quite frankly am not sure at this stage as I have ended up thinking we're better off fine tuning things and driving the wheels off this first before we subject it to the welder's gun again! I guess it sounds like age catching up with me but I do feel that as things stand we have a pretty outstanding vehicle for what it is and we haven't been able to do justice to it as yet . And its at heart essentially a "rock rig" like our partner 4405 which does not stand to win much in pure desert races outside its class....

    So I am trying to restrict myself to better shocks and bushings, fine tuning of springs/shackle angles, steering mods and maybe a custom fabricated stabilizer bar for the rear... I think thats cleans out my wallet until Cholistan 2013

    Nevertheless since Toyota says "our minds are always racing", if I do win a lottery, I would not rule out acquiring a fresh chassis and reverting to the original plan to slowly make this into a rock buggy like our partner rig with linked coilovers and solid axles. Something like BellyDoc's rig from Pirate4x4:
    Ultimate 4x4 Rally Threadrally database  rally discussion -413827

    Or the even more radical wild thoughts like turning things around into a rear engined IFS truggy like Shannon Campbell's KOH winner :
    Ultimate 4x4 Rally Threadrally database  rally discussion -413828 <!-- attachments -->
    "If YOU don't believe in what you're doing it'll never work."

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    But then again if I ever get to start off with a fresh chassis, I don't think I would be able to give up on first love

    Pakistan 4x4 Rally Thread -  Discussion - 0802or 14 zmonster truck jammin nationals grand prix in desertwiley moe racing 2wd jeep cherokee
    "If YOU don't believe in what you're doing it'll never work."

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    Default H&NR: Head and Neck Restraint System

    Did I mention anywhere that safety equipment is gonna help big time in that wallet cleaning program for next year? Anyways, there was an interview with Burcu Centinkaya at Jhal where she took ages hooking her restrainst harness while ranting FIA spec this and that. Recently I figured she was putting the harness over the H&NR system.
    Pakistan 4x4 Rally Thread -  Discussion - Team issuePakistan 4x4 Rally Thread -  Discussion - HutchensIIPakistan 4x4 Rally Thread -  Discussion - 300px Issacdevice

    A number of options, none are cheap, and here is one place I don't want to test desi engineering. Some useful resources below for the serious racers:

    Head and Neck Restraints - Trackpedia

    Which Head and Neck Restraint do you use?
    "If YOU don't believe in what you're doing it'll never work."

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    Quote Originally Posted by SuhaibKiani View Post
    Did I mention anywhere that safety equipment is gonna help big time in that wallet cleaning program for next year? Anyways, there was an interview with Burcu Centinkaya at Jhal where she took ages hooking her restrainst harness while ranting FIA spec this and that. Recently I figured she was putting the harness over the H&NR system.
    Pakistan 4x4 Rally Thread -  Discussion - Team issuePakistan 4x4 Rally Thread -  Discussion - HutchensIIPakistan 4x4 Rally Thread -  Discussion - 300px Issacdevice

    A number of options, none are cheap, and here is one place I don't want to test desi engineering. Some useful resources below for the serious racers:

    Head and Neck Restraints - Trackpedia

    Which Head and Neck Restraint do you use?
    too hifi for me mate... plan on using a simple 25$ helmet support

    Ultimate 4x4 Rally Threadrally database  rally discussion -415255
    More Power!!! More power....

  15. #34
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    nice stuff

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    Speaking of helmets... Qasim, your helmet looks like its from the Bell catalogue... did you get it in Dubai? what was the cost? btw whats the accessories store on sheikh zayed you mentioned in one of the posts... might be going to dubai in a few days...will check it out. Suhaib, what helmet are you using?
    More Power!!! More power....

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    ...on another note...hows this for motivation... 4link and coilovers Ultimate 4x4 Rally Threadrally database  rally discussion -415309
    More Power!!! More power....

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    Quote Originally Posted by yaserag View Post
    Speaking of helmets... Qasim, your helmet looks like its from the Bell catalogue... did you get it in Dubai? what was the cost? btw whats the accessories store on sheikh zayed you mentioned in one of the posts... might be going to dubai in a few days...will check it out. Suhaib, what helmet are you using?
    Do not know about Bell, mine are OMP, its an Italian company. This was the best non FIA approved helmet available at the concerned shop in Dubai, cant remember the the exact price but probably it was around 500 dirhams. FIA approved helmets started from 2500 dirhams and upwards.

    Will try locating the visiting card of the shop tonight and send the details

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    Quote Originally Posted by yaserag View Post
    Speaking of helmets... Qasim, your helmet looks like its from the Bell catalogue... did you get it in Dubai? what was the cost? btw whats the accessories store on sheikh zayed you mentioned in one of the posts... might be going to dubai in a few days...will check it out. Suhaib, what helmet are you using?
    One of my helmets bought at a local motorbike shop for 12k, says "Tanked". The other much better one was bought cheap from a friend says something like "WTF" or maybe its "WYC". Both are full faced helmets......
    "If YOU don't believe in what you're doing it'll never work."

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    Quote Originally Posted by yaserag View Post
    ...on another note...hows this for motivation... 4link and coilovers
    I see it, I see it.... nice big tires, big spacers and big steering wheel! Cool rig! And yes, coilovers and links is what I plan to do when I grow up or grow old, whicever comes first At least thats what the original plan was inspired by the TLC Icon rigs:
    Pakistan 4x4 Rally Thread -  Discussion - icon baja preview3Pakistan 4x4 Rally Thread -  Discussion - icon
    "If YOU don't believe in what you're doing it'll never work."

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    Guess we're getting there, slowly
    Pakistan 4x4 Rally Thread -  Discussion - 416944 353047571394725 100000684547120 1156459 468784875 n
    "If YOU don't believe in what you're doing it'll never work."

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