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Thread: The Phantom Of City Sadar Road

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    Default The Phantom Of City Sadar Road

    When I first started this thread, I had just taken delivery of a stock, recently-auctioned 1984 TLC FJ40.

    Gaari to khareed lee, lekin I had little/no idea of what I was going to end up doing to the vehicle. For a very long time, I planned to give it a "decent" sort of makeover: something involving some nice tyres, a respectable paint-job, comfortable seats, a roll cage, and that's about it. At that time, little did I know what was in store for me...

    Somewhere along the line, this project developed a life of its own. Baaton baaton mein, it metamorphosed from being a quick, run-of-the-mill restoration into something quite ambitious and challenging. Something that was in-your-face, and in-your-guts. Something, the likes of which we had seen chronicled in the pages of Off Roader magazines...but something which we'd never really attempted back home.

    This rebuild is STILL ongoing. It's far from over, just yet. But along the way, it's indeed become something which seems to have a life of its own. Ironically, this as-yet-unfinished vehicle has developed a...character.

    While it may not be the most ego-stroking fact...a lot of people know "The Phantom...jiss ka maalik woh Fouad Hafeez hai"...rather than knowing "Fouad Hafeez...jiss ke paas woh Phantom hai"

    Also, along the way, this vehicle has been instrumental in my making a huge number of friends, acquaintances, and well-wishers alike. Without a doubt, all of these people are gentlemen; sporting enthusiasts, and engine afficianados, and automotive hobbyists...with whom, a common love for the sport, has brought us to common ground. Their support, good wishes, advice, expert opinions, constructive criticism, and attention to detail, has made this hunk of steel slowly emerge into its current shape. I have no doubt that the end product will be a fusion of the ideas and aspirations of all of these friends, acquaintances, and well-wishers. To all of you; my deepest gratitude. It has been (and will be) one helluva ride, so far!

    For now, though, this thread (having picked up over 700 replies) is going to undergo some TLC of its own. A chronicle (in pictures) of all the water that's flown under the bridge, thus far, as we progress towards the desired end state (shown in the last picture of this post). Let the photos begin!

    And...I think it's about time for some of the photos to change here, too.

    The Phantom Of City Sadar Road - RollingChassis035 zps67b9d7d2
    The Phantom Of City Sadar Road - Exploration026 zps20dca66c
    The Phantom Of City Sadar Road - OwnFrameOnChassis002 zps86716bb0
    The Phantom Of City Sadar Road - Phantom4DoorI010 zpse8e4302f
    The Phantom Of City Sadar Road - Phantom4DoorIII004 zpse055a2d0
    The Phantom Of City Sadar Road - 3 3 12001 zps9289e65c
    The Phantom Of City Sadar Road - 10 3 12010 zpsdaaace95
    The Phantom Of City Sadar Road - 24 03 12006 zpsab6f3b06
    The Phantom Of City Sadar Road - DSC00080 zps6c2ea17e
    The Phantom Of City Sadar Road - PhantomGolay001 zps8f934202
    The Phantom Of City Sadar Road - DSC00021 zps79bf4c3a
    The Phantom Of City Sadar Road - DSC00126 zpsc1ca419e
    The Phantom Of City Sadar Road - DSC00153 zpsf2360921
    The Phantom Of City Sadar Road - 2012 08 13172155 zps7be6141c
    The Phantom Of City Sadar Road - 2012 08 19164453 zps145bd85a

    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Always buy cars which your children love. They'll be helpful allies against your wife, later on!

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    The Phantom Of City Sadar Road -354985 The Phantom Of City Sadar Road -354986 The Phantom Of City Sadar Road -354987 The Phantom Of City Sadar Road -354988
    Always buy cars which your children love. They'll be helpful allies against your wife, later on!

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    That's all...for now.

    *whew*
    Always buy cars which your children love. They'll be helpful allies against your wife, later on!

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    Steady progress....................can imagine it coming out to be a true monster!

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    Guruji...kal mein ne dobara Pindi aana hai. Apne saath mein us 1965 Chevrolet Impala ki tasweerein bhi leta aaoonga.

    I was thinking...why not have a 4wd '65 Impala, with the engine, transmission, differentials, steering, and brakes of a series 90 TLC? Amreeka mein ho sakta hai, to Pakistan mein us se BEHTAR ho sakta hai!

    Nahin?
    Always buy cars which your children love. They'll be helpful allies against your wife, later on!

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    Quote Originally Posted by hkhan1 View Post
    Just curious to know what are u gonna make out of this project...Best of luck
    Brother, this actually started off as a pipe-dream. I had thrown out the idea of building a Toyota-Unimog hybrid, whilst going through one of the threads on here (Suhaib Kiani's Concordia rebuild). There was a lot of encouragement that I got from some old and new friends on here, which is what prompted me to embark upon this ambitious (and dare I say, foolhardy) project.

    What am I going to make out of it? Let me attempt to reply.

    I am going to (try to) make this an absolutely beautiful machine. Something that is exquisite to look at. Which incorporates all modern creature comforts. Which is a pleasure to be seated in. Something that is strikingly gorgeous. A one-off wonder of the automotive art.

    At the same time, I want it to be a bad-to-the-bone off-roader. In the truest sense of the word. Something that is supremely capable at taking on the rigors that Mother Nature can throw in its way. I want it to be used for mud-racing. Desert-duelling. Mountain-climbing. Rock-crawling. And I want it to be able to handle all of those situations, with aplomb and gusto.

    Our Ustaads (I ALWAYS use that word for them, because of their abundance of talent) are the most capable builders / fabricators / manufacturers in the World. Bar none. Inclusive everyone. This is also a showcase for their talent. For how they can take a chassis, and a bunch of individual parts, and create sheer poetry in motion. During this rebuild, I'm going to challenge their talents...impose a great deal of stress upon their thought processes...make them think up solutions that may, or may not have occurred to them, before.

    And lastly...WHY am I doing all of this?

    Because it's just SO much FUN!

    Cheers.

    Fouad.
    Always buy cars which your children love. They'll be helpful allies against your wife, later on!

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    Great project BOL

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    Quote Originally Posted by fouadhafeez View Post
    Guruji...kal mein ne dobara Pindi aana hai. Apne saath mein us 1965 Chevrolet Impala ki tasweerein bhi leta aaoonga.

    I was thinking...why not have a 4wd '65 Impala, with the engine, transmission, differentials, steering, and brakes of a series 90 TLC? Amreeka mein ho sakta hai, to Pakistan mein us se BEHTAR ho sakta hai!

    Nahin?
    Thanx for sharing pictures of ur ride with MONSTER tyres
    As far as Impala project is concerned, i must say that U can do it
    All my support is with U
    -It is always Man behind the Machine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aamir567 View Post
    Thanx for sharing pictures of ur ride with MONSTER tyres
    As far as Impala project is concerned, i must say that U can do it
    All my support is with U
    God bless, Guruji. For your friendship, your support, and your faith in my crazy ideas!
    Always buy cars which your children love. They'll be helpful allies against your wife, later on!

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    Excellent work! A true labor of love on this one!

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    Quote Originally Posted by hayzin View Post
    Excellent work! A true labor of love on this one!

    Re: A Labour of Love.

    Taj Mahal banaaney ke baad, Shah Jahan ko paagal declare kar ke, uss ke beton ne ussey kai saal zindaan me daaley rakha.

    I hope this labour of love (paagalpan) doesn't have similar end results for me!
    Always buy cars which your children love. They'll be helpful allies against your wife, later on!

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    I have meaning to ask for sometime, what axles/diffs did you finally end up getting?
    "If YOU don't believe in what you're doing it'll never work."

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    Quote Originally Posted by SuhaibKiani View Post
    I have meaning to ask for sometime, what axles/diffs did you finally end up getting?
    The Series 60 TLC diffs, with front disc and rear drum brakes.

    Actually, the choice was pretty much whittled down for me, by default. I'd seriously bandied about some fancy diffs with diff locks, but was dismayed to discover that the 7/37 guchcha (a technical NECESSITY to drive the wheels) wouldn't fit in the handas of any of the TLC axles I was considering. After much soul-searching, I deemed diff locks were dispensible...but the correct gear ratios simply weren't. Which suggested that I either keep the FJ40 axles, or swap for a Series 60 set. I chose the latter.

    In hindsight, I'm happy with the choice. The axles are 3 inches wider than the FJ40 ones...which widens the stance nicely. Given the fact that the SOA and tire height is lifting the vehicle by about 14 inches, this is a good thing, imho. The 8 inch offset of each of the rims, gives a total widening of about 19 inches. So despite the huge increase in height, the increase in width STILL remains slightly more.

    For comparison, the following figures are applicable thus far:-

    Increase in ride height: 14 inches.
    Increase in stance width: 19 inches.
    Increase in wheelbase: 24 inches.
    Overall increase in length: 30 inches.

    Keeping my fingers crossed on this one!
    Always buy cars which your children love. They'll be helpful allies against your wife, later on!

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    As an addition to the last post, I DO have a set of 2 inch spacers handy, should the need arise. Hopefully, it shouldn't. Since there doesn't appear to be a likelihood of rubbing / brushing.

    Let's see, how that turns out, though.
    Always buy cars which your children love. They'll be helpful allies against your wife, later on!

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    Quote Originally Posted by fouadhafeez View Post
    The Series 60 TLC diffs, with front disc and rear drum brakes.

    Actually, the choice was pretty much whittled down for me, by default. I'd seriously bandied about some fancy diffs with diff locks, but was dismayed to discover that the 7/37 guchcha (a technical NECESSITY to drive the wheels) wouldn't fit in the handas of any of the TLC axles I was considering. After much soul-searching, I deemed diff locks were dispensible...but the correct gear ratios simply weren't. Which suggested that I either keep the FJ40 axles, or swap for a Series 60 set. I chose the latter.

    In hindsight, I'm happy with the choice. The axles are 3 inches wider than the FJ40 ones...which widens the stance nicely. Given the fact that the SOA and tire height is lifting the vehicle by about 14 inches, this is a good thing, imho. The 8 inch offset of each of the rims, gives a total widening of about 19 inches. So despite the huge increase in height, the increase in width STILL remains slightly more.

    For comparison, the following figures are applicable thus far:-

    Increase in ride height: 14 inches.
    Increase in stance width: 19 inches.
    Increase in wheelbase: 24 inches.
    Overall increase in length: 30 inches.

    Keeping my fingers crossed on this one!
    Thanks! So those are TLC 60 diffs sitting on the standard FJ40 leaf spring mounts or have the spring mounts been outboarded (moved outwards a couple of inches) to match the 60 series spring perches? Also you mentioned a shackle reversal debate, how did that play out?
    "If YOU don't believe in what you're doing it'll never work."

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    Quote Originally Posted by SuhaibKiani View Post
    Thanks! So those are TLC 60 diffs sitting on the standard FJ40 leaf spring mounts or have the spring mounts been outboarded (moved outwards a couple of inches) to match the 60 series spring perches? Also you mentioned a shackle reversal debate, how did that play out?
    Your latter question first. After some heated debate between the Frame Wallah Ustaad (Nikku) and the Denter Ustaad (Jamil), we've put the shackle reversal on hold, temporarily. Jamil's point was that the shackle mounted rearwards, would leave insufficient space for the wheels vis a vis the mudguards, since the tyres are big, ugly mothers, who occupy a great deal of space in the wheel-well, already. From my reading up on the subject, I (and Nikku, coincidentally) are of the view that shackle reversal is pretty much the way to go (since pushing, is always easier than pulling). So whilst the shackle reversal MAY be on temp hold...it's still very much on the cards...even if custom-built mudguards need to be fabricated to accommodate it.

    Thus far, in the SOA department, we've done nothing but switch the springs over the axles. We haven't widened the spring mounts, and in fact, other than simply add longer raqaabs we have done precious little else. I'd also mentioned earlier that we're using Series 60 leaf springs (a terrific set of them, which I got virtually brand new). The fit seems perfect. And it might be my untrained eye, but the springs themselves, seem to lend a little more height to the entire setup. Of course, it might just be my imagination running away with me, in thinking these springs look MUCH more curved than the flat FJ40 ones. A thing, which I'm going to have to check, when I next visit the place. Bottom line; I'm led to believe that the spring width for FJ40 leaf springs and Series 60 leaf springs is identical. Of course, I may be entirely wrong. Anyone who's done a similar conversion of Series 60 axles on an FJ40? Comments, please?
    Always buy cars which your children love. They'll be helpful allies against your wife, later on!

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    Quote Originally Posted by fouadhafeez View Post
    Your latter question first. After some heated debate between the Frame Wallah Ustaad (Nikku) and the Denter Ustaad (Jamil), we've put the shackle reversal on hold, temporarily. Jamil's point was that the shackle mounted rearwards, would leave insufficient space for the wheels vis a vis the mudguards, since the tyres are big, ugly mothers, who occupy a great deal of space in the wheel-well, already. From my reading up on the subject, I (and Nikku, coincidentally) are of the view that shackle reversal is pretty much the way to go (since pushing, is always easier than pulling). So whilst the shackle reversal MAY be on temp hold...it's still very much on the cards...even if custom-built mudguards need to be fabricated to accommodate it.

    Thus far, in the SOA department, we've done nothing but switch the springs over the axles. We haven't widened the spring mounts, and in fact, other than simply add longer raqaabs we have done precious little else. I'd also mentioned earlier that we're using Series 60 leaf springs (a terrific set of them, which I got virtually brand new). The fit seems perfect. And it might be my untrained eye, but the springs themselves, seem to lend a little more height to the entire setup. Of course, it might just be my imagination running away with me, in thinking these springs look MUCH more curved than the flat FJ40 ones. A thing, which I'm going to have to check, when I next visit the place. Bottom line; I'm led to believe that the spring width for FJ40 leaf springs and Series 60 leaf springs is identical. Of course, I may be entirely wrong. Anyone who's done a similar conversion of Series 60 axles on an FJ40? Comments, please?
    Later part first too The spring width is the same, the spring length is different and the centre pin is placed differently between the two. I will try and dig out the exact differences but I think its 46 inches eye to eye vs 42 inches. However my understanding was that the springs need to be outboarded to align the FJ40 chassis mounts with the FJ60 spring perches.... anyways I guess I should go down and check things out for myself

    As far as the shackle reversal is concerned, Jamil Ustaad is right that you will have to cut up the front fender with shackle reversal as you will also flip the FJ40 spring to fit the shorter side up front thereby moving the tire forward by 3 inches. However with FJ60 springs the tire moves forward by around 2 to 3 inches anyways as the FJ60 spring is centered whereas the FJ40 spring centre pin is a offset by around 1.5 inches. So in all likelihood the fender has to go anyways

    I would urge you to look into shackle reversal (SR) conversions in greater depth as from what I understand the jury is still out as to whether SOA is worth the effort (and money) or not. There are people who swear by it and people who don't recommend it and on the whole I have never come across a conclusive view particularly with FJ40s. From what I understand, there are probably some benefits on a road/rally/trail vehicle where the bumps are less pronounced with tire moving back, but for offroading/rock crawling, there are also benefits of the tire pushing forward against an obstacle.....
    "If YOU don't believe in what you're doing it'll never work."

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    Quote Originally Posted by SuhaibKiani View Post
    Later part first too The spring width is the same, the spring length is different and the centre pin is placed differently between the two. I will try and dig out the exact differences but I think its 46 inches eye to eye vs 42 inches. However my understanding was that the springs need to be outboarded to align the FJ40 chassis mounts with the FJ60 spring perches.... anyways I guess I should go down and check things out for myself

    As far as the shackle reversal is concerned, Jamil Ustaad is right that you will have to cut up the front fender with shackle reversal as you will also flip the FJ40 spring to fit the shorter side up front thereby moving the tire forward by 3 inches. However with FJ60 springs the tire moves forward by around 2 to 3 inches anyways as the FJ60 spring is centered whereas the FJ40 spring centre pin is a offset by around 1.5 inches. So in all likelihood the fender has to go anyways

    I would urge you to look into shackle reversal (SR) conversions in greater depth as from what I understand the jury is still out as to whether SOA is worth the effort (and money) or not. There are people who swear by it and people who don't recommend it and on the whole I have never come across a conclusive view particularly with FJ40s. From what I understand, there are probably some benefits on a road/rally/trail vehicle where the bumps are less pronounced with tire moving back, but for offroading/rock crawling, there are also benefits of the tire pushing forward against an obstacle.....
    Spot on about the differences in spring length. The 60 springs are 4 inches longer than the FJ40 springs. I was in a rush to leave the workshop, when the rolling chassis was being prepared (had to leave for Kharian), but the springs SEEMED to fit alright, in the FJ40 mounts.

    LOL. I knew it. Iss Taj Mahal ke baad, mujhe zindaan mein hee rakha jaayega! On a more serious note, now that these wheels have been decided upon, and the build is centred around them, I'm not averse to doing whatever it takes to make sure they remain the focal point of the build. Not a good idea to switch TOO many horses, midstream...so if the fender has to go...well, the fender has to go, I suppose.

    The SR is on hold. However, since the primary purpose IS offroading (with these wheels it'd be inconceivable to aim for flat-out, in-a-straight-line speed)...it IS likely to be beneficial, after all. Theoretically, at least.
    Always buy cars which your children love. They'll be helpful allies against your wife, later on!

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    Bohat Aala

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    Quick Update

    Kiani Saab, you are right as always. The final fitting of the Series 60 front axles DID require moving them outwards by 1.5 inches each. As always, your knowledge on these matters continues to impress me.

    A hugely exciting development is that over this weekend, the body will be "loose bolted" to the frame! So we'll finally start to get a rough, physical, visual idea of WHAT Phantom is going to look like! I'm (understandably) tickled pink by this development. Expect a HUGE amount of photos of the experiment after the weekend!

    Cheers.

    Fouad.
    Always buy cars which your children love. They'll be helpful allies against your wife, later on!

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    monster in making...
    '73 Corona MarkII...

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