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Thread: Please suggest hilux 3L diesel speed enhancing upgrades

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    Default Please suggest hilux 3L diesel speed enhancing upgrades

    Hello all,

    As the title suggests I need suggestions from experts here to make my 1992 hilux double cabin go faster. Its 3L diesel engine is all good, albeit its rated 70 hp which might be the problem. I could go 5VZ the 3.4 petrol 6 cylinder engine but I need diesel for offroading and a pesky petrol can't handle water. The diesel fuel injector is also good. Engine temperatures remain obedient. The "hissays" are 10 / 43 IIRC. Everything is stock. Its 4x4 power is extraordinary as I tracted a big russian tractor with its large ploughs in the ground with it to make it move and start it. So the press + clutch plates are good too (which i changed last year).

    The problem is on highways where it doesn't go to 140 km/h any more like it used to. Reaching beyond 100 km/h takes a lot of time which is unusual. There is no problem with the engine's head. Mileage is nearly 11 km / liter.

    I could get another more powerful engine but I want to stay on diesel. So, are there any tweaks or cheap add ons that I could use to make it go faster?

    Thanks in advance.

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    NA or turbo 3L, and if you feel power has been lost, when was the last time you actually checked the engine in its entirety for correct tune, which include

    compression pressure
    valve clearances
    Injection nozzle break pressure and pattern
    Injection pump timing with dial gauge
    injection pump delivery pressure and internal running pressure
    oil pressure
    ZRS - Zulfiqar Racing Systems ..... - professionals at work - at crackwheels.com

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    Those were checked and fixed last year in Peshawar brother. They opened the engine, "faced" the head, replaced parts of the injection pump, but the difference didn't last long. What is "NA" by the way? I didn't know there is a turbo version of 3L by Toyota. I live near Lahore, Pakistan so I'm not sure what upgrades or add ons (if any) I can get and from where. And if they're going to cost me a fortune then I should simply buy a more powerful engine I think. I also don't think 3L is really up to taking the abuse it some time has to take. But it might change with, say, an exhaust or air inlet custom turbo, or a modified transmission?

    Sorry I'm not very familiar to such things. And thats what brings me here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Vader View Post
    Those were checked and fixed last year in Peshawar brother. They opened the engine, "faced" the head, replaced parts of the injection pump, but the difference didn't last long. What is "NA" by the way? I didn't know there is a turbo version of 3L by Toyota. I live near Lahore, Pakistan so I'm not sure what upgrades or add ons (if any) I can get and from where. And if they're going to cost me a fortune then I should simply buy a more powerful engine I think. I also don't think 3L is really up to taking the abuse it some time has to take. But it might change with, say, an exhaust or air inlet custom turbo, or a modified transmission?

    Sorry I'm not very familiar to such things. And thats what brings me here.
    NA stands for naturally aspirated (means non turbo in simple) To keep your life simple i will suggest you to go for installing 1KZ or 1KD in your ride you will really love your machine driving afterwards but before swap make sure you geta good engine with orignal turbo pump and complete uncut wiring and ECU .
    1KZ is cheap and easy to find but a bit heavy on Diesel.
    1KD is D4D a bit costly but more powerfull and ecnomicle as compare to 1KZ but its nozzles issue is still a myth specially in Bad diesel.

    Best of luck
    Old is Gold
    Sulfide by Nature ....Trained & Tuned @ Toyota,,,,,,

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    Thanks, joinami. I think the 1KZ-T engine is exactly what I was looking for.

    I hope its turbo can handle dust, or I'll just get a nice big and tall snorkel.

    (Sorry, I forgot to mention that I don't want electronics/ECU/engine sensors in my ride either (along with no petrol engine and its spark plugs). Bad for (real) offroading, bad for me. So the 1KZ-TE electronic version is out of that equation, along with the petrol 3RZ and 5VZ engines the mechanic was recommending to me.)

    Now to check its price. Thanks again brother.

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    according to your statements, opening the engine and simply facing the head with no checks whatsoever to me equals to money wasted, The injection pump and nozzles need to be calibrated properly - this is not achievable by the 90% of ustaad diesel labs in Pakistan, only someone who actually knows how to tune the pump and calibrate and check nozzles can do it correctly. Then starts the timing part, which is not just aligning the belt, its more than that. you need to align it with a dial gauge and preset the plunger stroke.

    the 5VZ and 3RZ are very electricky too even more than the 1KZ-TE

    The 1KZ-TE is very robust itself, the ECU wiring is very simple if you find someone who actually understands how to do it. The basic mechanical 1KZ is very hard to find and requires finesse to setup so the pump actually increases fuelling with boost. There are some basic rules of maintenance to follow, what I see is that mechanics try to be oversmart by using thick washers under stetched head bolts thinking it will take up the clamp - no it does not. It needs new head bolts if they are stretched.

    For any sort of turbo engine, a very good air filter and proper sequence of startup and shutdown are required - like no load driving for about 4 minutes before the end of the journey, no revving before shutdown etc. this is done to slow down the turbo. Otherwise you will be looking for secondhand turbos as the new ones cost HUGE MONEY.

    p.s. If you dont like this post - then report abuse or tell me I will remove it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xulfiqar View Post

    For any sort of turbo engine, a very good air filter and proper sequence of startup and shutdown are required - like no load driving for about 4 minutes before the end of the journey, no revving before shutdown etc. this is done to slow down the turbo. Otherwise you will be looking for secondhand turbos as the new ones cost HUGE MONEY.
    Words of Wisdom! In our environment, a with significant heat and dust, turbo engines (particularly the earlier ones) need a fair bit of TLC to keep them happy and healthy....

    On the topic, I would personally not be too much in favor of a turbo on 3L unless, one knows what he wants and has someone to help who knows what he is doing. Nevertheless, a turboed 3L would at best be only slightly better off than a good 2LT. The 1KZs owing to the notorious mileage (especially on conversions) are an option mainly where you have a hobby car and not a daily driver or expedition rig.

    The 5VZ is a good option and if you get a good piece with the full wiring harness attached, the electronics should be manageable given what local electricians have managed to learn by trial and error. Yes, the electronics are quite a few, but the good thing is that the ECU error codes by now are well understood and generally quite accurate and helpful. Once you have the wiring done up well and have a snorkel, petrol water issues should be workable....
    "If YOU don't believe in what you're doing it'll never work."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Vader View Post
    Thanks, joinami. I think the 1KZ-T engine is exactly what I was looking for.

    I hope its turbo can handle dust, or I'll just get a nice big and tall snorkel.

    (Sorry, I forgot to mention that I don't want electronics/ECU/engine sensors in my ride either (along with no petrol engine and its spark plugs). Bad for (real) offroading, bad for me. So the 1KZ-TE electronic version is out of that equation, along with the petrol 3RZ and 5VZ engines the mechanic was recommending to me.)

    Now to check its price. Thanks again brother.
    I have hilux 3.0 1kd tiger auto (ect-i) 2003, i hav been almost every where on, off and on road, and it is the perfect engine by far. the stock power said on wiki is around 170bhp and the stock turbo boost is 1 bar... without altering and being totally genuine 1kd offers u enough power and high torque at around 1800 rpm... i dont recall torque on the engine but its enough to pull anything and reach any height. All you have to do is take care of fuel (not difficult to do), carry your extra fuel to remote places (where there might be dirty fuel), and above all love ur engine. dont forget toyota diesel engines are meant to last long, so dont worry and enjoy 1kd. u can always ride my car to check the engine.
    Far back as I can remember, I always wanted to be a gangster - Goodfellas

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    Quote Originally Posted by SuhaibKiani View Post
    Words of Wisdom! In our environment, a with significant heat and dust, turbo engines (particularly the earlier ones) need a fair bit of TLC to keep them happy and healthy....

    On the topic, I would personally not be too much in favor of a turbo on 3L unless, one knows what he wants and has someone to help who knows what he is doing. Nevertheless, a turboed 3L would at best be only slightly better off than a good 2LT. The 1KZs owing to the notorious mileage (especially on conversions) are an option mainly where you have a hobby car and not a daily driver or expedition rig.

    The 5VZ is a good option and if you get a good piece with the full wiring harness attached, the electronics should be manageable given what local electricians have managed to learn by trial and error. Yes, the electronics are quite a few, but the good thing is that the ECU error codes by now are well understood and generally quite accurate and helpful. Once you have the wiring done up well and have a snorkel, petrol water issues should be workable....

    you can even extract error codes from 1KZ-TE and 2L-TE. Nearly all such swaps I saw were that the scrap dealer slapped a simple NA pump on it and started the engine - removed the air intake pipe and showed the turbo was spinning. Apparently this means that the engine is perfect to sell. Sadly the mechanics dont know any better.

    Just look at the small petrol engine swap threads on the tech forums - you will see that electricians cannot even wire up a dead simple as chips with salt setup like a toyota 5AFE - expecting them to wire up a V6 completely with everything included and running is a very vague idea. And an improper wired up system with no fail safes can result in very dangerous situations if your truck gets damaged.

    mind you these electricians are the same "trial and error" ones.
    ZRS - Zulfiqar Racing Systems ..... - professionals at work - at crackwheels.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xulfiqar View Post
    you can even extract error codes from 1KZ-TE and 2L-TE. Nearly all such swaps I saw were that the scrap dealer slapped a simple NA pump on it and started the engine - removed the air intake pipe and showed the turbo was spinning. Apparently this means that the engine is perfect to sell. Sadly the mechanics dont know any better.

    Just look at the small petrol engine swap threads on the tech forums - you will see that electricians cannot even wire up a dead simple as chips with salt setup like a toyota 5AFE - expecting them to wire up a V6 completely with everything included and running is a very vague idea. And an improper wired up system with no fail safes can result in very dangerous situations if your truck gets damaged.

    mind you these electricians are the same "trial and error" ones.
    Well I can't speak for every local electrician and there are obviously flaws in the way the best of them go about stuff, but in my experience Toyota electronics are not really rocket science and quite standard across models. Connecting all the sensors to the right ECU ports and counting bleeps on the check light to figure out what sensor is malfunctioning is mostly all there is to it. Beyond that if something is broke on the first instance, either you replace it or you live with it until further notice....

    So coming back to it, if the wiring harness is fully intact on the engine side and you have the right wiring diagram/pinouts (which by now all these pathans do), getting these petrol engine to perform at 100% is basically a lot simpler than achieving a turbo diesel tuned to @xulfiqar standards

    Other than that obviously its a matter of getting the right parts, working with the right people and making sure they don't take any desi shortcuts or make silly mistakes. I speak after having gotten my v8 across the finish line of two tough desert races (touch wood) with zero electrical problems, despite severe dust and a gigantic water splash at one point! Yes, I double checked everything myself, got a lot of help and there were teething issues, but in hindsight everything was actually done (and done quite well) by local electricians with me learning the ropes and occasionally kicking some butt while at it....
    "If YOU don't believe in what you're doing it'll never work."

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    lol - xulfiqar standard turbo diesel, hahaha - nice one...

    Surely wiring up old Toyota EFI are simple and have analogue testing sequence, but there is far more than just pinout diagram and connecting the sensors.

    Getting 100% out of fuel injected petrol engines have 100% more headache than a simple diesel, Testing fuel pressure, fuel temperature, spray, ignition timing, signal input, trim feedback.. It takes nearly a whole day just to gather data and then decide what to do with it. These would not show up as errors in old Toyota self diagnosis. But Im sure you will get to solving these soon.

    When I come to Pakistan and up north I would like to meet you guys..
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    Thanks for your great insights guys. I enjoyed reading every word.

    Indeed, the problem of careless or ignorant mechanics being all over around here is significant. However, luckily I know a couple of those rare 10% who know what they're doing. I will try to find a non-electronic 1KZ or a NA diesel. Sensors, ECUs and spark plugs are just not my thing. I have had to cross a river a couple of times. Once I had to drive through a street with the adjacent houses full of rain water. I can't imagine a petrol and those sensors survive through that when you're driving with the cabin flooded. From my experience, sensors are just a headache and outside a city if your sensor screws up then consider yourself screwed as well. I've made a HHO kit myself and I know I don't want the sensors and the ECU. Because then I'll have to spend time building another circuit that fools the wide band oxygen sensor which can otherwise detect increased oxygen levels and that results in a proportionally increased fuel consumption. ECUs are hard coded to keep the mixture as rich as possible. The fuel economy in electronically driven engines is rather because of innovative designs and features of engine accessories like the fuel pump or dual ignition etc etc. Don't get me wrong. I love electronics and in fact I'm fond of and have made several electronic projects. But when it comes to cars I prefer them to be mechanical and accessible by those 90% of illiterate mechanics who don't even have any means to communicate with the ECU. Such is reality.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Vader View Post
    Thanks for your great insights guys. I enjoyed reading every word.

    Indeed, the problem of careless or ignorant mechanics being all over around here is significant. However, luckily I know a couple of those rare 10% who know what they're doing. I will try to find a non-electronic 1KZ or a NA diesel. Sensors, ECUs and spark plugs are just not my thing. I have had to cross a river a couple of times. Once I had to drive through a street with the adjacent houses full of rain water. I can't imagine a petrol and those sensors survive through that when you're driving with the cabin flooded. From my experience, sensors are just a headache and outside a city if your sensor screws up then consider yourself screwed as well. I've made a HHO kit myself and I know I don't want the sensors and the ECU. Because then I'll have to spend time building another circuit that fools the wide band oxygen sensor which can otherwise detect increased oxygen levels and that results in a proportionally increased fuel consumption. ECUs are hard coded to keep the mixture as rich as possible. The fuel economy in electronically driven engines is rather because of innovative designs and features of engine accessories like the fuel pump or dual ignition etc etc. Don't get me wrong. I love electronics and in fact I'm fond of and have made several electronic projects. But when it comes to cars I prefer them to be mechanical and accessible by those 90% of illiterate mechanics who don't even have any means to communicate with the ECU. Such is reality.
    Would also recommend looking into the 5L option as these are probably more readily available and have heard only good words about them....
    "If YOU don't believe in what you're doing it'll never work."

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    Suhaib bhai, is 5L an EFI engine or simple one? And does it have the same weight like 3L or more?

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    xulfiqar check your PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by noman8ff View Post
    Suhaib bhai, is 5L an EFI engine or simple one? And does it have the same weight like 3L or more?
    I think its available in both versions. Weight should be similar to a 3L....
    Theoretically, the performance numbers are similar to the 3L but reportedly its a much more powerful engine though personally I don't understand how or why that would be so Anyways seemed like a good match for this thread short of mechanizing a 1KZ-TE....
    "If YOU don't believe in what you're doing it'll never work."

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    If I may add my two cents here. Toyota 5L engines are pretty hard to come by these days, at least in decent shape, and even the ones that you do find are the EFI versions (5L-E). Like all EFI engines they have their share of drawbacks for offroading, specially when you factor in the that your swap will be done by a desi mistri. Morever they are quite expensive. Here in a Karachi, a Kabuli 5L-E costs around 175k-250k depending on the condition, and brand new one (dabba packed, supposedy auctioned by Indus Motors Ltd), will cost at least 350k.

    Having said that there is a much cheaper and in my view, a better alternative than buying a 5L-E.

    If you have access to a competent machinist and mechanic, get your 3L block over bored beyond the 5L piston size and then have it sleeved, using salvaged cylinder liners from a Volvo or some other diesel engine. The outside diameter of the liners should be more than the inner dia of your overbored block and the inner dia of the liners should be less than the dia of your 5L pistons. Gte your machinist to turn these liners of his lathe to reduce their outside dia and expnad their inner dia and then press them inot the 3L block and hone them.

    I recommend this to you because the 3l and the 5L share the same block and the same stroke and same crankshaft, whereas the 2L has a slightly different block and cranshaft because of its shorter stroke.

    Another upgrade I wiuld advise is swapping in a 10mm rotorhead on your injection pump instead of the stock 9mm one. While the increased displacement and the bigger rotor will cause a slight increase in fuel consupmtion, they will also result in a more powerful enine.

    (I suggest you do these upgrades one by one so that you can personally notice the increased power and possibly increased fuel consumption).

    Finally, if you have access to a pyrometer and a donor 2L turbo engine, you might want to even turbo charge your upgraded 5L engine. Dont try to turbocharge it if you dont have pyrometer to measure the EGTs at varying RPMs, lest your exhaust temperatures get so high that they cause serious damage to your engine.

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    just swapping out the rotor head doesnt cut it unless one is planning to run high boost levels, If the engine is to remain NA then a good setup of the pump is all that is required. But it wont be pulling trees out of the ground. For that you have to add a snail.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xulfiqar View Post
    just swapping out the rotor head doesnt cut it unless one is planning to run high boost levels, If the engine is to remain NA then a good setup of the pump is all that is required. But it wont be pulling trees out of the ground. For that you have to add a snail.
    With all due respect Xulfiqar sir, I fear lesser mortal like myself do not come up to your exacting standards, but for whatver its worth, I have swapped out rotor heads on both NA and turbocharged engines, and with my brother, have also tweaked the turbo timing on my 2LT, and in all three cases, the effort was well worth it. Though I didnt have a dyno, to measure the results, my vehicles seemed to accelerate faster, an have more low end torque, and are not anemic towards the top end either.

    Perhaps some of the more experienced bros here can also shed some light on this topic and share their experiences and experiments.

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    ^^ please dont use such diction.. Im also a mortal, a pretty fizool one as most people on PW would say, anyway - yes the pump head swap does work but working with the internals of the pump like changing the cam plate to a high lift one, ensuring correct advance and working with the metering sleeve spill timing - yields better result.

    But its quite a nervous experience and you would need more gauges than an aircraft to monitor the engine..

    BUT - ALL THE BEST, something is better than nothing.
    ZRS - Zulfiqar Racing Systems ..... - professionals at work - at crackwheels.com

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