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Thread: Toyota 2H vs 12H-T or any other engine option

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    Default Toyota 2H vs 12H-T or any other engine option

    I have HJ60 1986 commonly known as BJ60 with 2H engine and need to travel long distances on road and also offroad in tough soft ground terrain including driving uphill and rock crawling as well with temperatures in Sindh and Baluchistan reaching in 45s to 50C. I also carry huge loads of goods and its packed to full during offroading

    I need advice if i should rebuild 2H engine and whether if i should add turbo to it? Or should i opt for 12Ht engine but have been hearing it has issues with turbo and heating during extreme summers. I am getting engine of 12HT but its turbo is faulty but my mechanic says they provide gerrit turbo with modification on it

    I have also been hearing about 2F and 3F petrol engines and even Chevy small block V-8 engines.

    i am confused and need to know which engine to opt for

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    ^^
    The 2H is a great engine to begine with and a good rebuild should take care of anything you throw at it. Turboing a 2H will be limited by its high compression ratio and lack of turbo centric internals i.e. pistons, wrist pins, rods, lack of piston skirt cooling etc etc. You could run a turbo on it, say a CT26 with some mods to liven it up at speeds, but you will only be limited to say 7-9 psi of boost if you want your engine to last a while. Also, over heating should be more of a concern with a homegrown 2H turbo since you will be permanently dumping more fuel because of the lack of boost compensation, to cope with more air(due to the turbo), resulting in a hotter explosion.

    With the 12H-T, kabuli or not, you should consider that the engine you buy will be atleast 24 years old. So you should rebuild it to high standards and not just worry about the tubro not working anyway. Once you are done with that, you have your pump tuned for injection by a dial gauge, you injector nozzles in order in accordance with the factory manual and the boost compensation set right, with no smoke under light-mild loads and a slight puff when you gun it and the turbo spools, you will have a winner at your hands. I'm sorry for getting a little carried away but 12H-T is just tremendous. Hugely reliable, gobbs of pull and gobbs of go! It will only over heat, like any other engine, if it has a bad cooling circuit, or if you have it over fueled.

    Also with a turbo, there is not alot that can go wrong, which you wont even notice being fixed when you get yout whole engine rebuilt. Do the bearings, the oil seal, look for fractures/damage to the turbine blades and housing, make sure it has good fluids supply and that the version of pressure release your system has is working fine.

    How much are you paying for the 12H-T?
    Flat six flattening things out!

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    Oh, and also, I think any half decent diesel guy will tell you that the 12H-T is just tremendous! Also sounds the best by far!
    Flat six flattening things out!

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    @naveedmerchant sir both engines are long life & reliable but if you want more power then don't go with adding turbo to 2H as @HamzahF said Turboing a 2H will be limited by its high compression ratio and lack of turbo centric internals i.e. pistons, wrist pins, rods, lack of piston skirt cooling etc etc. My advice would be go for 12H-T it is way more reliable & tuff & powerful than 2H but a bit thirsty!

    2H is not designed for turbo if you still add a turbo to it, in long term it will bother you..

    The 12HT has longer piston skirts, is direct injected (as opposed to pre-combustion in the 2H), uses pre-heat instead of glow (damn super glow..).

    So i will recommend go 12H-T!
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    i am getting it for 70000 and it was rebuilt few months back by friend of mine who spent around 60000 to 70000 on it.. but says its original turbo is faulty and he is providing me garret kabuli turbo of another engine and will need small modification for installation. I assume this will be oK?

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    Sounds okay to me.
    Keep a cool head and wear seatbelts!

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    ^^
    You should warm the engine up and do a compression test on it, to see how nice a rebuild your friend has done. It will give you a picture of what state the bores, rings and valves are in. Ask him if he put sleeves in it or bored the block. Disconnect all accessories i.e. water pump, alternator, power steering pump and listen to the engine idle. Look in the radiator for head gasket leaks. If all is good, go for it!

    About the turbo, why would you want a Garret? Just Get the Toyota CT26 OEM and go with that, easily available.
    Flat six flattening things out!

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    Just overhaul it's original 2H and no need to go for a 12HT. Even the fuel consumption of 2H is much better than a 12HT. Reliability comes only with originality.

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    Hamzah.. wow thanx a lot

    How much warm should this go upto for the mechanic to perform the compression test? How is this compression test done as i wanted to supervise it.. any compression result numbers that i should look for?

    also wanted to know how do i check in radiotor for head gaskit leaks

    Ok will opt for Toyota CT26 OEM for turbo assume its a direct fit without requiring modification? I assume used one is OK?

    Had been hearing the radiator for 12HT is different/larger to 2H radiator.. should i change radiator? as i would be driving in Sindh amd Baluchistan and its damn hot out there while offorading and going uphill

    Would it make any difference if he has put sleeves in it or bored the block?

    While engine is idling what noise should i watch out for?

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    Noman

    I found 2H engine somewhat sluggish as i carry huge loads together with passenger friends while camping out and it tends heat up ...

    had been hearing on 12HT power so i am tempted towards 12HT

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    12HT engine with a failed turbo is just like an Alto on CNG. Turbo on 12HT contributes half of the engine. Repaired / Kit replaced turbo will not be a reliable solution so if you want that 12HT engine you should get the stock turbo as well though it will not be less than 30-40k.
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    Its difficult to locate original turbo.. however as suggested by Hamzah will Toyota CT26 OEM work on it?

    i have been hearing modified turbo can push out some pretty healthy numbers like 450nm of torque and need advise on this.

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    @naveed,

    It should be up to operating temperature. If the thermostat is still in, fire it up and let it idle for 20-25 minutes, then begin with the cmopression test. The numbers should be easily available on the net, my manuals are on the other laptop which is back home.

    Now for the radiator, you need to have a cold engine. Take the radiator cap off and put a condom/balloon on the opening. With the engine starting from dead cold, there should'nt be any inflation withing the first 3-4 minutes. Thats a reliable enough test for the head gasket, althout leaks will also show on your compression test.

    About the turbo, the CT26 is i'm not wrong is what originally came with the 12H-T. So finding one that bolts on should not be a problem at all. Regarding overhauling one, like i said before, its not as complicated as overhauling your engine and can be done perfectly well. A CT26 at the junkers should be in the 10-15k range i think.

    Go for a 4-core radiator and please do not leave your thermostat out. The cooling efficiency (along with any other kind of efficiency) actually drops when you remove the thermostat. Buy a new one and check it for its operating clearences in your kitchen. For keeping the engine in its healthy temperature range, you also need to give timing and fueling due consideration. Make sure the injection timing is slightly advanced. Advancing the injection timing is really worth while in terms of performance and economy and really helps bringing your exhaust gas temperatures down. You want to find a sweet spot on this too because too much advance and the turbo spool gets delayed. So its a bit of a trail and error game here. While you're at it, bump up the cracking pressure on your nozzles too. All of this done will make it run stronger/faster and burn less fuel. Ofcourse if you're one of the green party and plant trees as a hobby, then you shouldnt be doing this.

    The sounds you should look for are rod knock, piston slap, cam tapping etc etc. Take a stethocope with you and play doctor for the sounds.
    Flat six flattening things out!

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    Quote Originally Posted by naveedmerchant View Post
    Its difficult to locate original turbo.. however as suggested by Hamzah will Toyota CT26 OEM work on it?

    i have been hearing modified turbo can push out some pretty healthy numbers like 450nm of torque and need advise on this.
    For this you could try the high flow CT26 from the supra, see what that does.
    Flat six flattening things out!

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    i think if you try you can find Turbo Rebuilt Kit for most of toyota Turbos.
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    i was unable to locate Toyota CT26 OEM at junkers in Karachi. Do you know any other place from where i can find it?

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    naveedmerchant Bhai,

    You can get CT26 from Shairshah. I am also looking for inline 6 Diesel for FJ40 and I saw 2 x 12H-T, 2 x 1HZ and 1 x HD-T at Shairshah, but price was mind blowing PKR 230K+.
    If you remember HJ also comes with inline 4 Diesel i.e. Toyota 3B, the 3B engine is not very fuel efficient (5Km/l), another variant of 3B comes in Toyota Dyna Trucks similar to 3B (generally called B-new), non Turbo.

    The engine is mix of 4B, 11B and 13B or 14B but excellent mileage i.e 8 Km/l (due to commercial use).Some older variants came in BJ40 as well. Same Toyota Hilux injection pump is used with some modification and parts are easily available.In Shairshah plenty of engines are available and it will match with your 5-speed H55 transmission. The engine is available for Rs. 100K to 125K. I am confident to do the swap (with existing 2F).
    Now, I welcome Criticism and replies.
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    What would be approximate cost to have new sleeves piston in 2H engine, how much its high pressure fuel pump will cost ?

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    Details requested for 2H engines

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    Putting sleeves will not too much (Rs, 1,500/sleeve) but overhauling will cost much higher.
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