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    Default -Formula 1 - Season 2010 -

    Thread closed as next season thread is opened. Link


    F1 FANS!!!!

    Welcome to the 2010 Season thread!


    -Formula 1  - Season 2010 - -615561


    Season Schedule


    -Formula 1  - Season 2010 - -615562


    -Formula 1  - Season 2010 - -615563

    Previous Season's Discussion Archives






    Some Formula 1 related WebSites








    Live Streaming


    Live Timing




    Enjoy Posting



    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    M Saad Umar-



    "Fear is part of people's life. Some of them don't know how to face it, others — where I include myself — learn coexisting with it or face it, not as a negative thing, but like a autoprotection sensation."

    -- Ayrton Senna

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    I feel further clarification is needed about the incident at Suzuka in 1990.

    Firstly, it was the culmination of almost two years of animosity between Senna and Prost. To have a better understanding one must see what happened in 1989. The in car footage from Prost's car as he turns right two-three times before collecting Senna. If Prost had continued with the line he claimed to be taking, he would have put all four wheels over the curbs and straight lined the chicane. The in-car footage from Prost's car is pretty decisive.

    Initially, the FIA said, Senna had been disqualified for taking outside assistance. But later he was disqualified for missing the chicane. Again one must look at the footage. There was no way he could take the chicane after the impact with Prost. Senna was disqualified and Prost became world champion. The more telling factor at that time was the role of Jean Marie Balestre. His relationship with Senna was never good, again footage is available on youtube, where it's clear for all to see. Balestre a Frenchman, and Prost being one too, Senna considered it a conspiracy. Never one to hold back, he described it as such and his super license was duly suspended untill there was an apology from Senna. The apology was not forthcoming and took months and when it did, it was not in the words that was expected. Senna eventually got his super license back some where in February, if my memory serves me right.

    Fast forward to 1990, Suzuka. This is the important bit. Pole position at Suzuka in those days used to be on the wrong side, the dirty side of the grid which was a disadvantage to the pole sitter. Senna was going to be on pole, there was little doubt about that. Before qualifying-they, the Mclaren people and FISA met with track officials. Jean Marie Balestre along with track officials agreed that pole position will be moved to the outside, the cleaner side of the grid after qualifying was over and the information was passed onto teams and drivers. As expected, Senna took pole from Prost. FISA came out with a statement after qualifying- saying " we do not change pole position for anyone " This after agreeing to do that before qualifying. That's when Senna gave the famous interview, before the race saying, " Prost, if he is ahead at the start, better not turn infront of me because if he does that-he won't make the corner, he will not turn into the first corner ahead of me "

    True to his word, as they charged down to turn one, there is a little glimpse of Prost leaving the door open for a second and Senna being Senna went for it, Prost was never going to make it into turn one ahead of him even without that invitation.

    Just wanted to give a little back ground to that incident. Senna was a classy driver. He did not lie nor pretend it was something other than it was. He declared what he was going to do if Prost got a better start. The comparison between that incident and Schumacher doing what he did in Australia or Jerez is often made. I for one feel there is no comparison to be made. One guy, Senna, being promised one thing before qualifying and then FISA going back on their word, declaring in advance what he was going to do, and a second guy, Schumacher, who fell off the road in Australia, damaged his car, got back on track and clinically took out his only rival. Nothing was done to Schumacher either, a small inquiry and thats it.

    For 1997, he tried the same move and it didn't come off. The Italian news papers had this to say about 1997;

    From around the world the press are unanimously critical of Schumacher's move. And the strongest condemnation seems to be coming from the Italian press:

    "To see a world title vanish after waiting 18 years is sad enough. But to see it go up in smoke by that 'prank' from Michael Schumacher is...unfortunately much worse. It's shameful," La Repubblica newspaper said.

    Even La Stampa newspaper, owned by the Agnelli family, which also controls Ferrari, said Schumacher was at fault. "(Schumacher's) image as a champion was shattered, like a glass hit by a stone," the paper said in a front page article.

    "For Ferrari, after 18 years, it would have been a title to hide," Gazzetta dello Sport added.

    "Villeneuve...son of the adored Gilles, emerges in a magnificent light as a man who knows how to fight and as a champion who knows how to win," Gazzetta said.

    The funniest comment was made by Damon Hill.


    Damon Hill, who is a true gentleman and has always shown remarkable restraint when discussing his '94 collision involving Schumacher, had this to say, "He showed his true colours today and he got what he deserved. I said before the race I didn't think that he'd try anything like that again because it would spoil his image. But I was wrong. At least he is consistent."

    I feel as if the Schumacher week should be turned into Schumacher year
    Come back, Luca Badoer, all is forgiven.

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    @m_waqas
    Privately, he threatened to lay down on the grid in front of Schumacher’s car, if the FIA didn’t punish the German, to symbolise that Schumacher runs over the other drivers.

    really??.. i didn't know that...
    Yeah. You can read the entire article Here There is the usual British bias in some parts of the article. They can't help add some " masala " to anything Alonso does.

    Keeping the Schumacher celebrations going, here is Juan Pablo Montoya praising Schumacher Press conference at Imola, 2004.

    Come back, Luca Badoer, all is forgiven.

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    @UK
    Michal and Senna both have shown their passion for winning and its only upto FIA to decide whether their actions are illegal or not. FIA allowed once to both drivers and not allowed the second time for Michal and I think it was a fair call. If you want to count some other things of 94' Michal was penalised for an excessive damage to the wooden plank and got banned for 2 races even when Benetton clarifies that such damage was caused because of Michal going over the curbs, an appeal was made and then the ban was overturned which means that ban was wrong in the first place.

    Certainly everyone is entitled to his own opinion so if you think there is no comparision then we shall agree to disagree.
    M Saad Umar-



    "Fear is part of people's life. Some of them don't know how to face it, others — where I include myself — learn coexisting with it or face it, not as a negative thing, but like a autoprotection sensation."

    -- Ayrton Senna

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    Yeah. You can read the entire article Here There is the usual British bias in some parts of the article. They can't help add some " masala " to anything Alonso does.
    hmm..article is pretty recent one...and great source of F1 articles..thanks.

    I feel further clarification is needed about the incident at Suzuka in 1990.
    man u guys are old...since when u've been following F1?...


    and one thing more... before the start of the season there was a talk of 'a point for fastest lap in the race'; whatever happened to that??...

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    @genius83

    Yes bro, on this thing we will agree to disagree For me, there can never be any comparison between Schumacher and the great Ayrton Senna. It's like chalk and cheese.
    If we go by your argument-that it's up to the FIA to decide, then FIA appointed stewards decided that Hamilton has not broken any rule. We should accept those as fair too.

    There is a legal saying that, " Justice should not only be done, but should manifestly and undoubtedly be seen to be done "

    Merely the FIA saying does not make it right. Just to clear one thing, the under-sized plank on Schumacher's car was found at Spa. While leading, Schumacher spun, for no reason, but kept the car on track and doing a 360, continued on his way. He never went off, but the team said the plank had been damaged during the spin. It was not the minimum width required. How someone damages the wooden plank which is not supposed to touch the track, and the reason it was put there was to stop teams from running the cars lower to the ground, i will never know.

    Schumacher was not given the two race ban for that incident. He had been racing under appeal, ever since the German GP, for things done early in the season, like the Silverstone incident, overtaking Damon Hill twice on the warm up lap and then refusing to come in when he was black flagged. That was the reason for the two race ban. It was nothing to do with Spa or the under-sized wooden plank.

    @m_waqas

    Yes, he does write interesting stuff, James Allen that is. He has a thing for Hamilton, so you have to keep that in mind when you read anything he writes

    LOL! Old, yes. I'd say ancient is a better word I vaguely remember the `86 season and remember things from `87 onwards.

    I think teams didn't agree on the fastest lap idea, not sure though. Maybe it was not put forward for voting by the FIA.
    Come back, Luca Badoer, all is forgiven.

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    Key hopes to unlock Sauber potential
    Sauber may be experiencing its worst start to a season since it entered Formula 1, but new technical director James Key is optimistic that the team has what it needs to recover the lost ground.

    Williams increases share in hybrid arm
    The Williams Formula 1 team has announced that it has increased its share in Williams Hybrid Power from 40 per cent to a majority stake of 78 per cent.

    Hamilton's driving will be under scrutiny - Alonso
    Lewis Hamilton could be penalised if he does not tidy up his driving, according to Fernando Alonso.


    Mercedes and Ferrari aim to refine F-ducts for Spain
    Mercedes and Ferrari are working hard to get fully working F-duct systems on their cars in time for the Spanish Grand Prix.

    @UK
    FIA have put new rule after Schumacher's second attempt of delibrate crashing. Second if you think Hamilton has done something similar to what Michal have done then please pointout. As far as I know, Hamilton's incidents are all under the rules with heavy penalty. If you compare Hamilton's errors, mistakes and blunders with Michal then I think you are also doing unjustice with Michal as whatever Michal have did results a clarification of rules by FIA, while Hamilton have violated those clarified rules. As I said to The_Hulk that FIA not awarding penalty is because of a fear in their mind that this could change into a racist act on their behalf which they don't want at all.

    His Nurburgring incident, demands a similar disqualification as to what they have did to Senna at Suzuka 89'. It was a clear case of outside help, there are more incidents where without outside help driver have to retire. Christian Albers in 2005 or 2006 retires because he was released from the pits with fuel hose attached to the car and he crosses the pitlane so no team member can go near the car to retrieve the hose. Neither any race marshal was allowed to take that hose out as FIA's rule clearly says no one other then team member or authorise person could come close to the car.

    Hamilton takes a reverse direction to enter the pitlane and while Michal and Kimi both misses the pitlane entry and complete a full lap to come into the pits. If you think what Hamilton did was right then from next season every driver should enter the pitlane at Melbourne after coming on the start/finish straight.

    Running in the back of stationary car is the highest level stupidity and still no ban was imposed. While F1 fans demands Kimi to be banned for loosing the car under braking at Monaco during the race.

    @m_waqas
    If I tell how I start following F1, I think you would not believe that. I start following F1 from radio and not TV back in 90's. I starts listening radio just after 92' cricket worldcup at a mere age of 8. The reason my father use to listen BBC to get some updates on the city's situation as PTV and radio Pakstan gives info what government wants to tell.

    Just after 10 pm news from radio Pakistan, there was a sports related program Sports Roundup which was presented by Azeem Sarwar nowadays writing columns in Jang newspaper. They give all kinds of news from around the world whether it is related to any genre of sports. So they give a good summary of F1 races too in that and thats how I start following F1. I have seen news related to Senna's death at my Nanni's house On PTV's 7 pm english news which was presented by Shaista Zaid but the complete details of the incident from radio that night on both radio Pakistan and BBC.
    M Saad Umar-



    "Fear is part of people's life. Some of them don't know how to face it, others — where I include myself — learn coexisting with it or face it, not as a negative thing, but like a autoprotection sensation."

    -- Ayrton Senna

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    @genius83

    You are saying more or less what i said in my previous post- that every penalty given or not given is not right. If a driver is not penalized for something wrong he does, then it should not necessarily mean the FIA was right. That was my argument.

    Rules have changed over the years. A driver can get outside help if he is deemed to be in a dangerous position on track. It was Nurbergring, 2003 probably when Montoya put a pass on the outside of Schumacher, resulting in Schumacher spinning and his rear tires were in the gravel. He eventually got a push from the marshals and got going.

    Most of the incidents you mention-that involve Hamilton should have resulted in a penalty. Driving into stationary cars in the pitlane etc should never go unpunished.
    There are double standards in F1, they have almost always been there. For example, imagine if it was not Raikkonen who dove into the back of Force India at Monaco, but the other way round. If Raikkonen had been taken out by a Force India car, they would have been slapped with a penalty. Similarly, if the car behind Hamilton was not the Renault of Petrov, and say it was a Ferrari or a Mercedes driver, you think he would have escaped punishment? I suspect not. Having said that, i am okay with what the race stewards did in Malaysia.

    The pitlane stuff regarding Schumacher and Raikkonen you talk about is slightly different. I think both entered the pitlane, both slid out and didn't have a chance to enter the pitlane again so they had to do another lap as a result.

    I remember sports round up I used to tune into that too and then there used to be one from BBC radio at 10:45....ahh the care free good old days -Formula 1  - Season 2010 - -1017492-Formula 1  - Season 2010 - - 68640
    Come back, Luca Badoer, all is forgiven.

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    Williams favours early KERS return
    Williams technical director Sam Michael says his team is now in favour of Kinetic Energy Recovery Systems returning to Formula 1 as early as 2011 having been convinced that the devices are now cost-effective.

    Button: McLaren success yet to sink
    Jenson Button says he doubts the significance of winning races with McLaren will sink in properly until he retires from racing.

    No big Williams update until Monaco
    Williams has warned that it could be the Monaco Grand Prix before it makes significant gains, as it will not be introducing as major an upgrade for Spain as many of its rivals are expected to.

    @UK
    I have defended Hamilton for his action at Malaysia because there is no way you could penalise a driver who tries to stop another driver from taking advantage of his car's tow. But I must say I will criticise him if it was a blocking move if Petrov decides to overtake and Hamilton kept doing that.

    I would be amazed if they have penalise any one for loosing his car underbraking whether it was Kimi, Michal, Alonso, Senna or any other driver from a midfield team because such errors are part of racing. Heidfeld looses his car underbraking at Austria 2002 and goes backward in Sato's Jordan Honda. Sato was taken out on stretcher as he was unconsicious but had not suffer any serious injuries. No penalty for Heidfeld as it was a racing incident. In previous race, Liuzzi lost his car underbraking and collected 2 other cars on the first lap of the race no penalty was awarded. Senna runs into the back of a Minardi in 93', I guess and no penalty was awarded to him either.

    Outside assistance was only provided to Hamilton and not to the other six drivers who were present just alongside Hamilton in the gravel in Nurburgring 2007 is what annoys me.

    Yes, good old days those were when there was quality in reporting especially in sports related news.
    M Saad Umar-



    "Fear is part of people's life. Some of them don't know how to face it, others — where I include myself — learn coexisting with it or face it, not as a negative thing, but like a autoprotection sensation."

    -- Ayrton Senna

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    nice conversation, the only best decent conversation and the best thread on pakwheels. if this thread removes from pakwheels there is no pakwheels.com.

    im too big time formula 1 fan....a big time....

    btw what happend to the_hulk why he was banned? he didnt say any thing foolish or bad.me parh raha tha uske comments kafi valid points maare the, jubi wo banned hogaya hahahah.....i think he loves lewis too much....or kuch sunna nai chahta lewis k bare m bura.

    waise i like lewis too...im very disappoint from schumi's performance in his comeback season...

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    [QUOTE
    Here is the video of that incident

    [/QUOTE]


    how is this any different then shumi crashing into hill or vellinuve for that matter.

    just because senna died while racing, ppl make him sound like racing god, im sure ppl wud have hated him as much as they hate shumi if he was racing in newer tighter rules

    @ hulk
    hamilton is wanna-bee shumi,
    Alpha Romeo 156

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    Genius And Uncle You Started Following F1 before i was born lol Thats Awsome Really Good thing to Hear ..One Thing I want to ask you is that was there any load shedding back then ? because i hate this load shedding at the race time ...And I Hate All the race organisers too because ever race is at the load shedding time
    Life Begins At The End Of Your Comfort Zone - Neale Donald Walsch -

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    @RedBull_ar
    Bro, as I said that there was a time when cheating was part of racing, if you look into the history you find many such incidents where there is clear evidence of cheating but no action was taken as it was part of racing.

    Also you have almost said the same thing that I have thought for a long time and I am a fan of both Senna and Schumacher. Senna most likely forgive for his actions because of his death while Schumacher is alive and so he is good case for criticism and even those incidents are blame to be his fault where his team was involved. If that is the way to blame an excellent driver then I think Alonso have been part of 3 continuous years of controversy with respect to team as Mass Damper issue 2006, In team battle at McLaren and the Spy-gate scandal 2007, Race fixing scandal in 2008. But no one criticise Alonso for that as in all those incidents teams are the guilty party and not the driver.

    @Blackeye117
    First of all as I start my liking towards F1 with the help of radio so loadshedding is not a problem for me in that regards. Secondly, yes there was loadshedding in those years but it was limited to summer and rain, I don't remember we have any loadshedding in winter or pleasant weather.

    As for your hate towards Race organisers, I think it is a bit of nonsense as they don't have loadshedding in those countries where the races are held so how could they knows the problems face by us F1 fans in Pakistan. Loadshedding is our problem and we have to solve it on our own, this is the kind problem which you can't blame to any other country but to your own beuracracy and political leaders who don't have the courage to take hard decisions.
    M Saad Umar-



    "Fear is part of people's life. Some of them don't know how to face it, others — where I include myself — learn coexisting with it or face it, not as a negative thing, but like a autoprotection sensation."

    -- Ayrton Senna

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    @ genius and UK..
    man i can't believe what i m reading ... u guys are grand grand daddys of F1... i mean u've watched generation upon generation of racing drivers come in and move out... i should start calling u both 'walking talking encyclopedia'??... ya .. and yes u guys r ancient..only vampires can live that long...

    following since radio times? genius u kidding??... bechara Blackeyes wasn't even born then...and u still remember names of the presenters ...man u've got some extra size harddisk in your head...

    One Thing I want to ask you is that was there any load shedding back then ?
    haha... good question ...

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    here we go...alonso should refrain from this..

    Button: McLaren success yet to sink
    Jenson Button says he doubts the significance of winning races with McLaren will sink in properly until he retires from racing.
    thats bit too much...

    @Me.vs.100
    welcome buddy...pleasure to have u here...its all because of the efforts of grand dady of F1..genuis83...
    ya i too missing Hulk's one sided palaver for hamilton...he's such a fanatic..shouldn't have been banned...


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    Genius I was Making It up Nothing Serious against them
    Life Begins At The End Of Your Comfort Zone - Neale Donald Walsch -

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    i should start calling u both 'walking talking encyclopedia'??... ya .. and yes u guys r ancient..only vampires can live that long...

    following since radio times? genius u kidding??... bechara Blackeyes wasn't even born then...and u still remember names of the presenters ...man u've got some extra size harddisk in your head...
    Anything but walking talking encyclopedia, maybe we can call genius that? Yes, he does have an extra size hard disk and probably quite a few not just one. That's why he is a genius

    @Blackeye117

    Yes, there was load shedding even back in those days but like genius83 said, it was for a limited time and mostly in summers. It's been there as long as i can remember and it's not going away anytime soon. The way things are going, one day, when you have kids-they will ask you if we ever had electricity

    @genius83

    Out of curiosity, have you not read anything about spy-gate, or the Renault saga? Or did you by any chance miss Massa's famous statement about Alonso-that he must have known about the crash gate? I am sure you read a lot of F1 forums, are you suggesting that you have not seen threads upon threads calling Alonso a cheat? Sorry but no, cheating was never considered part of the sport, it was never accepted. Bending the rules to the maximum, yes. Exploiting every loophole and trying to get an advantage, yes, but never was there a time that cheating was considered right.
    Come back, Luca Badoer, all is forgiven.

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    Quote Originally Posted by genius83 View Post
    @RedBull_ar
    Bro, as I said that there was a time when cheating was part of racing, if you look into the history you find many such incidents where there is clear evidence of cheating but no action was taken as it was part of racing.
    exactly, as racers, senna shumacher etc, all are the same, greddy selfish animals.

    some ppl are blind in sennas love
    Alpha Romeo 156

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    F1 narrows tyre choice to Michelin, Avon
    Formula 1 teams are set to decide between Michelin and Cooper Avon as the sport's tyre supplier from next year, according to Williams technical director Sam Michael.

    Silverstone unveils new Arena layout
    Silverstone officially opened its new Arena Grand Prix circuit on Thursday with the promise of a great venue for spectators and a big challenge for drivers.

    Webber: Arena layout good for Red Bull
    Jenson Button and Lewis Hamilton have been warned not to expect any home boost because of the new Silverstone layout, with Mark Webber confident it will play to the strengths of Red Bull Racing.

    Sauber: No regrets over saving team
    Peter Sauber says he has no regrets about having taken control of the team he founded despite a difficult start to the 2010 season.

    Silverstone eyes '11 for new pit complex
    Silverstone's managing director Richard Phillips is confident the new pit complex will be ready in time for next year's British Grand Prix.

    Coulthard gives Arena the thumbs-up
    David Coulthard gave the new Silverstone layout the thumbs-up after becoming the first driver to complete a lap of it with Formula 1 machinery.

    Ferrari accused of pushing subliminal tobacco message
    A report in the Times said doctors have called for an investigation into what they describe as subliminal tobacco advertising on Ferrari's Formula One cars.

    @m_waqas
    At that time I was only 8 years old, and this is not even back in 80's I am talking about but early 90's. As for remembering the name of presenters bro, both the names that I mentioned are quite respectable names, I think when you listen to every day the same name you can memorize it without problem.

    @UK
    I have read many topics regarding both scandals but my question was and still is do you accuse Alonso for whatever happens during those scandals or not because I will not accuse Alonso for those scandals but when I asked for punishing the team then he was part of the team and should be penalised as a team member.

    So you are forgetting that one driver have to stop his race in the middle to give his car to another driver who was leading the championship. It is a kind of cheating too. Imagine this thing nowadays is not possible.

    Its a humble request please delete your last para.

    @RedBull_ar
    Bro, no is blind in any drivers love here, that I can assure you. The only reason Michal is being discussed more in such scenarios of cheating is during his 16 years of F1 career no driver can come and give him a hard time for a longer period of time, one year one driver was running alongside him for title, the next year another is in the hunt and as no one gives him serious fight he is a no match for anybody of his generation and then you only have to revert back to a generation old drivers to compare his records versus them.

    @m_waqas and Me_vs_100
    You both are looks like a bit amazed that why The_Hulk is banned, i think the only reason he is banned is because he has posted a reply with only a smiley and as its against the rules of professional section of Pakwheels so he is banned.
    M Saad Umar-



    "Fear is part of people's life. Some of them don't know how to face it, others — where I include myself — learn coexisting with it or face it, not as a negative thing, but like a autoprotection sensation."

    -- Ayrton Senna

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    @genius83

    Yes, i think he took part in the 2007 spy-gate scandal, just like most of the Mclaren team. Even if he didn't, i have said this on previous threads-that he and Hamilton, both should have been stripped of all points in 2007. You can't say that the car that's being driven is illegal but the points scored by that car's drivers is okay. Alonso and Hamilton got information from Pedro, and both tried things based on that information, in the Mclaren simulator.

    There are circumstances when the driver is unaware of things. Like Brazil `95, Benetton and Williams drivers didn't have a clue about the fuel. But when you have launch control on your car, when it's banned, you can't argue that you didn't know about it because as a driver how can you not know.
    Come back, Luca Badoer, all is forgiven.

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