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Thread: -Formula 1 - Season 2010 -

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    Default -Formula 1 - Season 2010 -

    Thread closed as next season thread is opened. Link


    F1 FANS!!!!

    Welcome to the 2010 Season thread!


    -Formula 1  - Season 2010 - -615561


    Season Schedule


    -Formula 1  - Season 2010 - -615562


    -Formula 1  - Season 2010 - -615563

    Previous Season's Discussion Archives






    Some Formula 1 related WebSites








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    Enjoy Posting



    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    M Saad Umar-



    "Fear is part of people's life. Some of them don't know how to face it, others — where I include myself — learn coexisting with it or face it, not as a negative thing, but like a autoprotection sensation."

    -- Ayrton Senna

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    @UK
    What are you saying Andretti has reinstated to 3rd after 3 drivers have found to pass him under yellows. The reason IRL is better at and F1 lacks is the rules of IRL are more clearer then F1's rules which at worst are the catacombs of Catalunya and at best as straight as Jalaibee.

    @m_waqas
    Vettel is not only feeling the pressure it is the team itself feeling the pressure to justifies there huge investment in RedBull's Young Drivers programme and Vettel is the key for justification. So imagine it yourself what if Webber wins the title, what it really means to the team that their huge investment was for nothing and an old school driver could beat their best talent in an equal machinery.
    M Saad Umar-



    "Fear is part of people's life. Some of them don't know how to face it, others — where I include myself — learn coexisting with it or face it, not as a negative thing, but like a autoprotection sensation."

    -- Ayrton Senna

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    hmm...interesting..why should any team must have a father figure to cope with these sort of situations?...why can't drivers be controlled?...

    i mean if i have an F1 team (ahh..will only remain a wish).. and i m the boss...why can't i tell my drivers to cool off and and that too in strict manner?...drivers are paid by team, they too r employees of the team, they're not doing any favors to the team they're getting paid for it and rather handsomely i would say...
    Allow me to narrate a story. 2003 French GP, Williams-BMW had unlocked the true potential of their car. They had appointed a young man, Sam Michaels, as their chief race engineer. Ralf Schumacher was leading team mate Montoya, who thought Ralf had been favoured by the team during pitstops. It lead to a shouting match over the radio during the closing laps of the race. Montoya, not one to hold back used a pretty colourful language and Sam Michaels returned the favour. Two weeks later, Montoya had signed for Mclaren without informing Williams or even his own manager. Williams lost their star driver, in that one moment when Montoya heard things on the radio, it changed everything for Williams. An experienced person would have handled that situation very differently than what Sam Michaels did.

    The following year they had Webber and Heidfeld as their drivers. From the sublime to the ridiculous. It eventually lead to BMW parting ways with Williams because they saw no future with Webber and Heidfeld. See where Williams are today.

    Coming to your scenario, you own Red Bull and you have his millions. Allow me to to paint this picture for you. Treat your drivers the way you said you would, i would take Vettel from you and put him in a Mercedes. Kubica in a Ferrari with Alonso. All you are left with are the Massas of this world. Good luck fighting the likes of Ferrari, Mclaren and Mercedes with Massa and Webber They are employees of the team, but the most important ones. There is a reason why in 60 years of F1, something like only 32 odd drivers have won the world championship. They are special.
    Come back, Luca Badoer, all is forgiven.

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    So is Vettel the favoured son at Red Bull?

    Last year after the race at the Nurburgring, I went into the Red Bull motorhome to congratulate Mark Webber on his first Formula 1 victory.
    There was no sign of Webber, but team principal Christian Horner and Dr Helmut Marko were deep in conversation next to the bar. Both looked pretty serious. Webber had won the race while Vettel had finished second, largely due to being rather tentative in qualifying, where he ended up fourth. I watched him very closely that weekend and spoke to him several times and I felt that he was really feeling the pressure of a home Grand Prix where you are expected to win.
    Come back, Luca Badoer, all is forgiven.

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    thanks for explanation UK...so its OK to be blackmailed by your drivers...hey but i got your gist ...what montoya did was right...but even if they had some 'father figure' around those days and it was the policy of williams to favor li'l schumi then what would that figure have done?...i bet montoya would still have switched...

    mclaren had father figure (Ron - as u mentioned him in your father fig. list ) when alonso and hamilton were together but it was mclarens 'policy' to favor hamilton so alonso switched in the presence of father figure....i hope u got my point ...

    anyway i don't wanna get into this too much...

    and @steve
    absolutly...thats also what our steve here said...drivers development program is to blame..by the way its superb article -Formula 1  - Season 2010 - - icon14 ...

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    @m_waqas
    If you want my opinion, I like this kind of stuff because such things motivate drivers to perform a bit more then they are doing which led to a bit more mistakes. Webber and Vettel have history after Webber has criticise Vettel in Fuji 2007 crash in a colourful language.

    As for driver developement programme, tell me you have invested in such a programme then don't you want exceptional results just to prove that this programme is workable. I know I would because I have invested for fruit if I don't get that then what's the purpose of such a programme.

    It is the same story as bringing a driver with a huge salary to gain the extraordinary results but if that driver does not perform to the expected level, what you would do certainly throws him out and bring another driver. Right???
    M Saad Umar-



    "Fear is part of people's life. Some of them don't know how to face it, others — where I include myself — learn coexisting with it or face it, not as a negative thing, but like a autoprotection sensation."

    -- Ayrton Senna

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    Webber seeks to clear air with Vettel<!-- end title -->
    Mark Webber plans to sit down with Sebastian Vettel for clear-the-air talks before the next race in Canada in a bid to ensure they can move on from their Turkish Grand Prix crash.

    Button hopes to benefit from RBR rift<!-- end title -->
    World champion Jenson Button is hoping the rift between Red Bull drivers Sebastian Vettel and Mark Webber will benefit him.

    Renault sets sights on Mercedes<!-- end title -->
    Renault boss Eric Boullier says he is 'eager' to see what kind of progress Renault can make in the next few races - as he sets his team's sights on overhauling Mercedes GP.

    Webber urges Red Bull to be united<!-- end title -->
    Mark Webber has urged Red Bull Racing to pull itself together and act as a united force as he and the team bid to recover from their Turkish Grand Prix nightmare.

    Lotus granted indemnity in Aerolab case<!-- end title -->
    Lotus Racing has been granted full indemnity from Aerolab/Fondtech in the aerodynamic design company's ongoing court action with the Force India team.

    Red Bull accepts Webber not to blame<!-- end title -->
    Red Bull Racing has conceded that it was wrong to pin the blame on Mark Webber for the clash with team-mate Sebastian Vettel in Turkey last weekend - with the team now believing their coming-together was simply an 'unnecessary' racing accident.

    Ferrari won't give up on 2010 car
    Ferrari is not prepared to give up on its 2010 car, despite falling dramatically off the pace at last weekend's Turkish Grand Prix.

    Moss backs Tilke to design Austin track
    Sir Stirling Moss has backed the decision to appoint Hermann Tilke as the circuit designer for the next US Grand Prix in Austin.
    M Saad Umar-



    "Fear is part of people's life. Some of them don't know how to face it, others — where I include myself — learn coexisting with it or face it, not as a negative thing, but like a autoprotection sensation."

    -- Ayrton Senna

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    Drivers cannot be manufactured. Maybe one out of a thousand will come up to expectations if a team is lucky and even then, there is no guarantee that he will not face someone like Fangio, Clark, Prost, Senna, Schumacher, Stewart and a few others.

    Hamilton is one of those exceptions and even with all that money poured into his career, groomed from the start, he still has weaknesses. He is far from being the finished article, and yet he is an exception. Teams like Ferrari, started their own driver development programs recently but who is to say Jules Bianchi will develop into a driver Ferrari want at the end of the day. Why not pay and get the best you can, a proven driver. Why pay for someone for so many years and hope he develops into some one special and end up paying him millions more to drive for you.

    Red Bull paid for Vettel, but how long will Vettel serve them, one or two years more? And what will Red Bull have to show for that investment once he leaves. I am thinking, not much.

    @m_waqas

    Doubt Juan Pablo would have left had there been an experienced man at the other end and not Sam Michaels. Mclaren sucked big time, Newey had gone crazy in those days. A small look at what Mclaren were doing in 2003, `04 is enough.

    Ron Dennis mis-handled the situation, yes. But over all, though he had a habit of getting attached to one of his drivers, he handled things quite okay, no? Even the hungaroring fiasco was handled better than what Red Bull have done with the last GP. Yes, they have changed their stance yet again Must be the tenth U-turn they have made in two odd days.
    No substitute for experience.
    Come back, Luca Badoer, all is forgiven.

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    Williams confirms new wings for Canada<!-- end title -->
    The Williams team has confirmed that it will use the next evolution of its front wing in the Canadian Grand Prix.

    @UK
    Federer has lost.
    M Saad Umar-



    "Fear is part of people's life. Some of them don't know how to face it, others — where I include myself — learn coexisting with it or face it, not as a negative thing, but like a autoprotection sensation."

    -- Ayrton Senna

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    @UK
    Federer has lost.
    thats sad...lost to whom? Nadal??...Nadal is passionate..

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    @steve about drivers' rivalry...
    ya from outsider's point of view its good fun to watch drivers of same team battling out on race track...but team suffers due to this...but in case of redBull i don't care cause i don't care about this team...so i m with u..i want this to happen to redbull ...

    divide and conquer...thats what exactly i m hoping for,...

    webber is being generous...or he needs to be??...

    thats ambitious and very good...

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    thats sad...lost to whom? Nadal??...Nadal is passionate..
    Lost to Robin Soderling.
    @genius83

    Yeah, pretty ironic that he lost to the guy, he beat in last year's final. Last year Soderling took out Nadal, this year he has done a number on Federer
    It will be the first time in six something years that the semi finals of a grand slam will be competed without Roger Federer.
    Come back, Luca Badoer, all is forgiven.

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    Red Bull facing a civil war

    By Martin Brundle
    BBC F1 analyst

    From seven straight pole positions they could and should have won every race but only have three victories on the scoreboard.
    Their car is immensely fast, if a little fragile, and there have been a few glitches in strategy calls and pit-stop procedures.

    Examining The Webber v Vettel Potential

    The longer Sunday's post-race press conference went on, the easier it became to imagine Webber questioning his future with Red Bull. Webber might have been subsequently soothed, but tension and suspicion remain rife in the transcript.

    Examining The Webber v Vettel Problem

    Formula One has been here many times before. It's not a stretch to claim that the seasons without a high-profile team-mate 'war' are rarer than those featuring some sort of civil strife. But Red Bull haven't been here before. And neither have either of their drivers.
    Come back, Luca Badoer, all is forgiven.

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    ^ oh..this is getting serious...

    after reading this article (Red Bull facing a civil war ) some questions have appeared in my mind once more...

    there are two drivers in every team with separate garages for each driver having certain number of crew members..right?..
    1 - does the members of both crews get inter-changed for every race or after specific number of races?..or the crew for both drivers remains same for whole season?..

    2- who chooses which crew member to serve which driver?...is driver involved in it?..
    3- when we talk about nepotism in the team, is it possible to have a rift between members of both crew because of it?...or its just driver specific..and that crews play a neutral role?...

    what i m trying to understand is that at what level in team hierarchy driver starts to loose support?..

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    Force India: Lotus legal action 'serious'<!-- end title -->
    Force India has said it is treating its legal action against Lotus Racing, Mike Gascoyne and Aerolab over a breach of intellectual property as a 'very serious' matter.

    Whitmarsh: McLaren influence still felt<!-- end title -->
    McLaren team boss Martin Whitmarsh has paid tribute to the company's founder Bruce McLaren on the 40th anniversary of the Kiwi's death.

    Horner: Webber asked Vettel to back off<!-- end title -->
    Red Bull Racing boss Christian Horner has revealed that Mark Webber asked for Sebastian Vettel to 'back off' from him the lap before their collision in the Turkish Grand Prix.

    Smith joins Lotus as technical director<!-- end title -->
    Lotus has announced that it has recruited Force India design director Mark Smith to become its technical director.

    Manager not ruling out F1 switch for Raikkonen
    Kimi Raikkonen's manager has refused to rule out the prospect of the 2007 world champion returning to Formula One.

    @m_waqas
    Pit crews change through out the season so they are not the same for either driver for a longer period of time. I have read somewhere that apart from the senior personnel and team engineers all other members will gets a vacation or two during the season where other pitcrew members will take their places.

    So, lets take example of RedBull team apart from Christian Horner, Adrian Newey, both drivers engineers and some other higher level personnel will be present at every race but other pitcrew members will change every now and then.

    The heirarchy of favouritism starts from the top and not from the bottom so it is more of a ordered approach rather then like and dislike. As team mechanics are continuously changing then they certainly can't develop a like or dislike towards any particular driver.

    You really has not understand what I am saying about the inter team rivalary, I only don't want RedBull drivers to have this but also want this in McLaren, Ferrari, Mercedes too. I know why you don't like RedBull, you also treat them just like many others as a team which have gain a surprising advantage because of rule changes and they would go back as soon as others catch them up.

    @UK
    This news piece about Webber asking for Vettel to back off is stupidity at best because it was not Vettel's fault that Webber has to drive in fuel safe mode. Why Vettel pays the price if Webber has used more fuel because of Hamilton's pressure early on.

    These British journalists are really trying to build a mountain out of mole hill, don't you think??? Calling this a civil war is just plain stupidity. Yes, I have said that this would goes to show a bitterness in both drivers relations but this for now is only a single incident and we don't know what will happen in the future races.

    I was just amazed to read about Federer's lost because I was expecting him and Nadal again in the Final.
    M Saad Umar-



    "Fear is part of people's life. Some of them don't know how to face it, others — where I include myself — learn coexisting with it or face it, not as a negative thing, but like a autoprotection sensation."

    -- Ayrton Senna

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    1 - does the members of both crews get inter-changed for every race or after specific number of races?..or the crew for both drivers remains same for whole season?..
    No, not really. Maybe a very small number might move from one side to the other but the main people don't change. They not only remain same for the entire year, but in some cases for the entire duration of a particular drivers stay with the team. The crew as in people who change tires etc are pretty much the same or might rotate for what ever reason but not the important folk.

    2- who chooses which crew member to serve which driver?...is driver involved in it?..
    The team decides not the driver. For example at Ferrari, Alonso has inherited the crew that looked after Raikkonen, including his race engineer, Andrea Stela. At Mercedes, they decided to keep Jock Clear away from Schumacher, although he is the senior guy there but there is a history between the two. Jock Clear was Jacques Villeneuve's engineer at Williams. We know what happened between Villeneuve and Schumacher in `97. There are Videos of Jock Clear on Youtube, using quite a colourful language when talking about Schumacher. So the team management decided it was best to keep the two away. Jock Clear is Nico Rosberg's race engineer as a result. Once settled in, the driver if he is a successful one and a big name, he may ask for someone to be changed but we are talking about drivers of the stature of Senna or Schumacher.

    3- when we talk about nepotism in the team, is it possible to have a rift between members of both crew because of it?...or its just driver specific..and that crews play a neutral role?...
    That varies from situation to situation. In 2007, the famous Alonso-Hamilton/Dennis saga, His crew ( Alonso) stayed loyal to him through out the season and there was animosity between his crew and Hamilton's side of the garage.

    In some cases its the opposite. Some drivers are let's say very paranoid about these things. There are many instances, the most famous F1 rivalry, Senna-Prost, had reached a level where not only the team, team boss, but Honda got involved too and clearly favoured Senna. Ron Dennis goes around saying how he handled Senna and Prost, but from what one reads, it's only in his head. He was handled by Senna, who made the team his own. So much so-that anyone old enough to have watched those years will forever associate Mclaren as Ayrton Senna's team.

    @genius83

    The British press lives on that kind of stuff. What i like about the situation, and i wrote that in one of the previous replies, is that the team everyone expected to have massive problems doesn't seem to be having any despite the pass into the pitlane in China. The press was waiting and even predicting days and weeks when it would happen. As it turns out, It's happened at all the other three teams except the one people expected it to happen.

    Things are not good at Red Bull, yes the media is playing it up but there is so much happening. Like for instance, this latest interview by Horner. Would it not have been better to just shut up and move on? No, he feels like he needs to talk to the media for some odd reason. Sights like last week were a common occurrence at Williams during Montoya-Ralf years but they went about it in a professional manner.

    True, Vettel should not be penalized for Webber being in fuel save mode but then he, Vettel, should remember that and not expect anything from Webber at the end of the season, should he need Webber's help. It's as simple as that. Plus, he put or tried to put a pass on Webber, he should be prepared for the consequences too. He made a mistake and he is the one who gets out of the car gesticulating that Webber is crazy? In today's F1, with millions being spent on teams and drivers, once they get into a 1-2 formation after their last stops ( which is only one pitstop these days) they more or less hold station and bring the car home.

    Things will not be fixed at Red Bull anytime soon, if at all. There was no realistic pressure from Hamilton around that time. I think James Allen wrote on his blog-that the gap between Vettel and Hamilton was very steady in the five or seven laps before the incident between Webber and Vettel. Quite honestly, Horner needs to shut up. They are a joke, having changed their stance a dozen times already.
    Come back, Luca Badoer, all is forgiven.

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    @UK
    The only reason why the much wanted team is not in the media is they forget to update their car, the way all other teams have update theirs. When a question is asked one have to answer and thats what Horner did, plus we knows that Webber was in a fuel saving mode so why the hell he asks for such a favour.

    Hamilton was furious about Button's move and I must say Button was about to pin Hamilton in the barrier in turn 1 as he tries to move left going into the corner before backing off. Hamilton was also told that slow down and change into the fuel saving mode as Button is also in the fuel saving mode and then came the move.

    I could assure you that all these British press guns are towards RedBull to avoid the situation at McLaren which also is not good either. The ego of both champions are taking over them, I would not be amazed to see them crashing into each other in either of the races this season.
    M Saad Umar-



    "Fear is part of people's life. Some of them don't know how to face it, others — where I include myself — learn coexisting with it or face it, not as a negative thing, but like a autoprotection sensation."

    -- Ayrton Senna

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    @genius83

    There is a simpler explanation for that team not being in the news. Media did try to play up the China pitlane episode but nothing came off it. Nothing will happen in the future either when they upgrade their car. Massa, in the middle of contract negotiations has probably realized what he had been warned about- it was not going to be the same as handling Raikkonen. He has found a very different beast, and that guy is not at Ferrari to become best friends with Massa. Maybe Massa has accepted the reality and is content to just drive for Ferrari.

    Again, like i said in the previous post, Webber perhaps should not have asked for it. Let's hope this " definition " is applied every where. Webber should not have asked for this favour because he was in fuel saving mode and Vettel should not expect him to move over later in the season if Webber is leading a race and Vettel needs the points because why should Webber be penalized, right? It won't be his fault that Vettel is whatever number of points behind in the championship at that late stage and needs a " favour " from Webber, or he is leading the race, in fuel saving mode, and is attacked by Webber for the lead.
    Come back, Luca Badoer, all is forgiven.

  19. #1378
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    UncleKracker's Avatar
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    The Webber/Vettel crash explained

    In Turkey last weekend, Red Bull Racing's Christian Horner found himself in the position every team principal dreads. When nightmare scenarios like a collision between team-mates happen, there's rarely time to plan a clever PR strategy or come up with a party line.
    These guys are human after all, and thus Christian, the two drivers and Red Bull motorsport supremo Helmut Marko all said what they thought. It was a tricky situation for the team, but for the rest of us it was great stuff – real drama in a sport whose key protagonists are so often criticised for being bland.

    The Inconvenience of Webber's speed

    The great thing, we said at the start of the season, is four competitive teams all with competitive drivers. We rubbed our hands in anticipation. Might all get a bit combustible, this...
    The favoured venue for aggravation had to be Ferrari – a couple of Latins in the red cars, one of whom, throughout his career, has been distinctly unimpressed whenever a team-mate got the better of him. On the surface, Red Bull looked as if it was on a more even keel. Fernando and Felipe have had a couple of minor spats but, in Turkey, war proper broke out at Red Bull.

    Is Fernando worth it?


    The best driver in the field, a flawed genius, a spoilt, over-rated prima donna - opinions are divided about Fernando Alonso, but is the Spaniard really worth the mega-bucks Ferrari is paying him..?

    He might have blamed Ferrari's lack of performance for his failure to do any better than eighth place in last weekend's Turkish Grand Prix – dealing a blow to his world championship chances – but others are starting to question whether the errors and inconsistencies that have blighted Fernando Alonso's F1 2010 challenge so far are really all down to the car and not the driver.

    Come back, Luca Badoer, all is forgiven.

  20. #1379
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    alright thanks guys...

    @steve...
    ok i got your point about drivers' rivalry...

    I could assure you that all these British press guns are towards RedBull to avoid the situation at McLaren which also is not good either. The ego of both champions are taking over them, I would not be amazed to see them crashing into each other in either of the races this season.
    very well said steve...u r steve for this exact reason...thoughtful analysis ...

    ferrari is safe from this drama situation because massa hasn't been able to perform well yet...if he starts matching alonso then we'll have same situation in ferrari as well...

    here we go again...how would vettel react if it happens?...kimi won't be amiable/helpful to vettel...

  21. #1380
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    Yeah ... Come On Kimi ... Come Back And Show These Guys How To Drive The Wheels Of An F1 car
    Life Begins At The End Of Your Comfort Zone - Neale Donald Walsch -

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