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Thread: Let's buy a car in Pakistan today

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    Lightbulb Let's buy a car in Pakistan today

    Dear all,
    I'm outlining a scenario about Mr. X who is a Pakistani and plans to buy a car in Pakistan after getting out of bed one good morning. He says to himself, "I want to buy a car and let's look at the various options I have today." Here is what he will find out.

    1. Locally manufactured brand-new PKDM (Pakistan Domestic Market): He finds out that the cars are of poor quality with a very high price-tag which keeps on going up because of the falling rupee. He also finds out that these cars have a good resale value.

    2. Used PKDM (Pakistan Domestic Market): Mr. X now explores buying a used PKDM car. He finds out that if the car is low-priced then it is of low quality too; roughly used and not properly looked after and not worth buying. He also comes across some very well looked after cars but finds out that the owner is asking a very high price. He walks out of this option too.

    3. Fraudulent dealer-imported JDM (Japan Domestic Market) Imports: Now he looks at this option. He goes to the market looks at the cars and finds out that all are used, with forged auction sheets, odometers rolled back, damage-repaired and repainted, tsumani water-damaged and subsequently repaired. He calculates that he won't get what he is paying for and decides not to fall prey to the JDM Import Mafia which is dishonest and passing old, abused and damaged cars as almost brand new ones. So he walks out of this option too.

    4. Self-imported, authentic JDM (Japan Domestic Market) car from Japan: After eliminating the above two options, Mr. X explores this third option of importing an authentic JDM picked directly from an auction house in Japan. He sits down on a table and does his math, calculating and adding up the auction price, freight, custom-duty and taxes. After his calculator blips the total, he is amazed at the figure. It is very high. The total keeps him away from this option too. He finds out that although the car is very good, scratchless, grade 5 with A interior with no PKDM (Pakistan Domestic Market) car even able to eat its dust when it comes to quality and reliability, it is way too high in price. He asks himself, "Which part of the total price (auction price, freight, custom duty and taxes) is unfairly high and should have been reasonable?" Mr. X finds out that it is the custom duty and taxes which have not only been recently increased but are charged in dollars. He is told that because the custom-duty is charged in dollars it has increased because of the falling rupee. Mr. X fails to understand why the Pakistani government is charging the custom-duty in dollars when the transaction is done within the boundary of the state of Pakistan. He is further told by the custom clearing agent that the government has increased the taxes too because it has gone broke and very hungry for money and therefore she (the government) has decided to rip off her people. She (the government) is already doing so by indirect taxation, increased fuel and utility bills which has hit her people hard in the shape of traumatic and unbearable inflation. Mr. X walks out of this option because of the high price-tag as the cost of this option is beyond his budget.

    Mr. X's final two options: Mr. X is very worried now and finds out that all of his options are distasteful. He narrows down his option to two, number 1 (brand new PKDM) and number 4 (self-imported good grade JDM bought directly from an auction house in Japan). He looks at the two options very carefully:

    Option number 1: If he goes for option number 1 (brand new PKDM) he gets a relatively less expensive brand-new stuff with a fabulous resale value but a car of very low quality.

    Option number 4: He examines his other option, option number 4 (self-imported, good grade JDM bought directly from an auction house). If he goes for this option, he gets fabulous quality but a car with a very high price-tag and a relatively low resale value. It is beyond his budget too. Price keeps him away from this option.

    Mr. X's final pick: Option number 1 (brand-new PKDM car). He has reluctantly picked this option because the purchase price is low as compared to option number 4 (self-import JDM). Low price has forced him to pick this option.

    My conclusion: The government has allowed the import of good grade, used JDMs from Japan with fabulous quality but has made the price-tag beyond the reach of a common user. She has increased the duty and taxes so much that it is keeping the end-user away from this option. Therefore a common Pakistani is forced to buy low-priced, low quality vehicles made by the local manufacturers. All of this is being done on purpose. I don't know why? Why are we forced to go to the local manufacturers? Why we have to spend our hard-earned money to get low-quality vehicles from the local manufacturers? Why is this local manufacturer Mafia ruling all the way?

    I've written this thread to highlight the various options a car-buyer has today. I've concluded that we the car-buyers don't have any option but to go to the local manufacturers to buy their sub-standard crap which is not at par with the international standard. These local manufacturers are ripping off the car-buyers since 1983 when the first Pakistani manufactured Suzuki SS80FR (800 cc) came into the market. The sad part is that the government is allowing them to do so. Is she (the government) getting any kickbacks? Probably yes!

    Regards.


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    Quote Originally Posted by aqs29 View Post
    What's Mr. X's budget & social circle
    Mohtaram aqs29 Sahib,
    Mr. X is any common Pakistani who is in any respective price bracket dictated by how big a car he wants depending on the engine displacement (cc of the engine). Just do the math for 1000cc, 1300cc, 1600cc and 1800cc.

    Regards.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MGK View Post
    I don't understand if Mr. X is so much money conscious why would he want to own a car? A Car is a luxury item and only the class which holds a luxury life can afford to own it in "recent times" (unfortunately), the old times are gone now when we had even a spare car at home just for bringing school kids and sabzi wagera. Still Pakistan is one of the blessed countries where maintaining a car is 1000 times affordable than countries like uk and usa but that time is also approaching now when this blessing would also be taken away from us.
    do you want to elaborate further on your understanding of why it is difficult to maintain cars in UK? Pakistan has an extremely poor public transport network and where basic road / transport infrastructure is so poor, having your own means of public transport I.e. a car, is NOT a luxury. Owning a car here in London is a luxury because public transport is so good that you don't need a car but you cant say the same about Pakistan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by deel_ee View Post
    do you want to elaborate further on your understanding of why it is difficult to maintain cars in UK? Pakistan has an extremely poor public transport network and where basic road / transport infrastructure is so poor, having your own means of public transport I.e. a car, is NOT a luxury. Owning a car here in London is a luxury because public transport is so good that you don't need a car but you cant say the same about Pakistan.
    How much do you pay for insurance of a used car in uk? That will elaborate!

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    Quote Originally Posted by hamza_xeg View Post
    it's a 06 probox, 4.5 grade, interior is B, the mileage on vehicle was 14500 approx, which I highly doubt.
    Mohtaram Hamza Sahib,
    Thanks for your input. I would like to bring to your kind information that I've outlined an authentic self-imported JDM bought directly from an auction house in Japan with an exterior grade of 5 and interior A. You've said that your car was not imported by you but a dealer and was a 4.5 grade and interior grade B. I'm comparing a brand new PKDM (Pakistan Domestic Market) with a 5 grade JDM and it would not be fair to bring a 4.5 into the comparison.

    Another point; I would like to bring into consideration whether you bought the car from the auction yourself and in your case the implication seems to be otherwise which will bring the element of doubt into the equation as you've yourself put that you highly doubt the odometer reading suspecting a roll-back. Did you verify the auction report yourself before buying the vehicle sir?

    One more thing, I'm highlighting a 2010 model in the scenario when three year old imports are allowed and not a five year old model the import of which was allowed before December 2012. Today's three year old imports are lot more expensive to import than was the case when five year old models were allowed before December 2012 making the number of imported cars coming into Pakistan very low these days as compared to what was going on before that (December 2012).

    Regards.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vajih102 View Post
    Wonderful write up :thumbup:

    Sent from my ST25a using PW Forums mobile app
    Quote Originally Posted by cooldevil View Post
    nicely summed up man! (Y)
    Quote Originally Posted by capsat View Post
    @Supereagle Good & Thank you for sparing time
    Quote Originally Posted by amerhassan View Post
    reat Eye opening stuff..
    My story i same as of MR X
    Thanks a lot for the appreciation.

    Regards.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baleno1300 View Post
    I bought a Lancer 2007 JDM with 110,000 on the odo for 8.50 Lakh last year.

    It is much more comfortable and drives smoother than a new corolla and city.

    I have made more than 4 trips from Khi to Isb with family on it and the mileage it gave me was more than 18 km/l on the highway.
    What more can I ask for in this money.
    Mohtaram Baleno Sahib,
    I'm outlining a scenario in the current situation. Your Lancer is a 2007 and must have been imported when cars upto five years old were allowed and these days one can import cars not more than three years old meaning that today one can import a model not earlier than 2010. When your 2007 Lancer was imported, it was much cheaper to do so. The number of cars imported from Japan today is negligible as compared to when five year old models were allowed because the import price has gone through the roof.

    I've outlined the four options one would face if one wanted to buy a car today. No doubt JDMs have a better quality than PKDM cars as you have put it. I hope you've got my point.

    Regards.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bilalafzaldogar View Post
    Very nice description of very common problem. But what you think if pkdm start to give same quality and features as jdm's where will be the price tag?
    Mohtaram Dogar Sahib,
    Thanks for your input! Well if the local manufacturers bring more features and quality into their cars, the price will certainly go up! It is our government who should reduce duty and taxes on such features to keep the price-tag down and she (the government) is least interested in the matter. The government can't reduce the manufacturing cost of a CKD (completely knocked down car kit) bound for Pakistan when it is shipped from Thailand but it can provide cushioning for the cost factor by acting on its end when it comes to imposing duty and taxes on the imported CKDs from Thailand. The federal government is not even ready to provide cushioning by slashing a Rs. 1 federal tax on a litre of petrol let alone will reduce duty and taxes on CKDs!

    Regards.
    "Science is nothing but trained and organised common sense," Thomas Henry Huxley.

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    Quote Originally Posted by omar_575 View Post
    Well written. My family ended up with 1 and 3 (although the dealer wasn't such a big fraud)
    My experience - both have been good.
    Buying a big family car is always best bought brand new. Even though the '13 civic has minor problems, it's still gives more peace of mind than buying a JDM in that price range. We haven't regretted our buy.
    For a small car, Jdm 660cc's are the best provided you know the dealer well. My experience with that has been awesome.
    You can follow both my threads to read about my experience with an expensive PKDM and a reasonably price 660cc JDM, yes there have been minor glitches but I would still opt for the same vehicles every time.
    My advice is:
    As there are no good local small cars these days, it's best to buy a JDM provided you know the dealer and you get everything thoroughly checked by an OBD scanner. A 8 lacs small car with airbags and ABS is not a bad option. And there are always good dealers out there who are good Muslims and don't want to rip off the other person. But that tension when you buy one and take it to the workshop to ensure its in one piece and getting the oil, sparks, air filter changed in a immediately purchased car is weird.
    For a family car, civic' 13 is still an option. It's brakes work, it's wheels don't fall off and it engine starts every day. So its reliable.
    However, an imported JDM in that budget may give more value for your money but will you really want to spend a huge chunk of your hard earned cash for a car used by someone else. It's too high a risk for a car you intend to keep for 7-10 years .
    I've had the civic '13 for around 3 months now. And I (well technically my father) don't regret spending 26 lacs on a local car. You can argue that your prius is better but I can bet on it you can't keep one for ten years or more.
    For a small car, Suzuki swift is pretty good. We've had one for the past 3 years now. It has done 60,000 kms and again none of the wheels have fallen off, it starts everyday yet it lacks in airbags. In such a small yet powerful car, that's a major factor. And then it's automatic version is awful. Which brings to vitz. I have driven one, it's a nice car but if I want to buy a new small 1300 cc hatchback, I will still choose swift-only swift owners can understand this. The smile that the acceleration of this car brings can't be replaced by anything. The sound of it at 7,000 rpm is addictive. Vitz just lacks that 'soul'. Stupid explanation but then again, only swift owners can understand
    Luxury cars- can't afford em so can't talk about em. However i don't understand how someone can by a JDM land cruiser for 15 million rs and live with the Japanese screen and buttons. Range rovers came in hundreds but have disappeared off the streets. Most probably because of maintenance issues/low quality imports.

    Btw, I checked the price of a brand new 2013 JDM daihatsu move (including car and taxes, etc) and it comes out to be 18 lacs!!!!



    Sent from my GT-I9100G using PW Forums mobile app
    Mohtaram Omar Sahib,
    Thanks for your input. I've gone through your thread on how to import a JDM. It is indeed very helpful.

    My points are as under addressing your points you have raised in your above post:

    1. Price is a big issue in the equation. If you import a grade 5, interior grade A, 2010 1.5L Toyota Axio, it will cost you around Rs. 2.3 million today. If you go for a PKDM Honda Civic, it will cost you around Rs. 2.7 million and it is a 1.8L. So one can't compare a 1.5L Axio with a 1.8L PKDM Honda Civic but there is a bit of a juxtaposing between the two because of the price factor. Thanks to our government who has made that comparison possible by bringing the price of the two vehicles in juxtaposition.

    2. You can compare a 2010 JDM grade 5, interior grade A Toyota Premio 1.8 XEX with our PKDM Honda Civic. Quality wise we can see that the Premio is lot better and I'm talking about a grade 5 Premio with less than 10,000km on the clock. But the flip-side is that it costs a staggering 3.5 million to import it into Pakistan today. Who will spend that much of a money on a Premio? Only a fool would and who has made it possible to happen (i.e. no Premios being imported today)? The government's import regulations. If you look around, you won't find a 2010, grade 5, interior A, Toyota Premio XEX in Pakistan, only a handful and those too might be dubious imports with odometers rolled back and forged auction sheets. Import regulations have elbowed out the Premio from the competition just because of one factor; 'the price', which is being dictated by the import policy of the government. If the government causes the price of a Premio to come down to Rs. 2.9 million, people will prefer it over a PKDM Civic because of the quality issue. Japanese are such good car makers that they have taught Detroit (the big three: GM, Ford and Chrysler) how to make cars.

    3. You have yourself outlined that price is a major factor in the purchase of a car. Premio can't compete with a Civic because the import cost of the former (Premio) is way too high and the major factor in its price is the figure of duty and taxes imposed by our government dictated by IMF and other lending agencies.

    4. About your point on JDM being used and spending lots of money on a 'used' car. Well it all depends on the auction grade. A grade 5 car bought from an auction in Japan is an almost brand new. Grade S is even a higher grade, you will be aware of it.

    5. PKDM cars are not made at as high a standard as followed by the Japanese, West-European or North American one because we lack both the technology and facility to do so. We are just not up to it.

    6. You like your Civic for Rs. 2.6 million. Imagine having a 2010 JDM grade 5, interior A, Toyota Premio XEX for that amount? But it actually costs Rs. 3.5 million to land it in Pakistan today! It beats the PKDM Honda hands down in both quality and driving pleasure. If it cost Rs. 2.6 million, every Honda buyer would switch to Toyota Premio because of better build quality.

    7. No doubt a 660cc JDM is a better choice than a local Mehran.

    8. Suzuki Swift is a good car.

    9. There is only one grade 5 vehicle being imported from Japan today and it is the Toyota Land Cruiser. Prado coming into Pakistan is a 4.5 grade and both have lots of buyers in Pakistan.

    Regards.

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    Quote Originally Posted by supereagle View Post
    Dear all,
    I'm outlining a scenario about Mr. X who is a Pakistani and plans to buy a car in Pakistan after getting out of bed one good morning. He says to himself, "I want to buy a car and let's look at the various options I have today." Here is what he will find out.

    1. Locally manufactured brand-new PKDM (Pakistan Domestic Market): He finds out that the cars are of poor quality with a very high price-tag which keeps on going up because of the falling rupee. He also finds out that these cars have a good resale value.

    2. Used PKDM (Pakistan Domestic Market): Mr. X now explores buying a used PKDM car. He finds out that if the car is low-priced then it is of low quality too; roughly used and not properly looked after and not worth buying. He also comes across some very well looked after cars but finds out that the owner is asking a very high price. He walks out of this option too.

    3. Fraudulent dealer-imported JDM (Japan Domestic Market) Imports: Now he looks at this option. He goes to the market looks at the cars and finds out that all are used, with forged auction sheets, odometers rolled back, damage-repaired and repainted, tsumani water-damaged and subsequently repaired. He calculates that he won't get what he is paying for and decides not to fall prey to the JDM Import Mafia which is dishonest and passing old, abused and damaged cars as almost brand new ones. So he walks out of this option too.

    4. Self-imported, authentic JDM (Japan Domestic Market) car from Japan: After eliminating the above two options, Mr. X explores this third option of importing an authentic JDM picked directly from an auction house in Japan. He sits down on a table and does his math, calculating and adding up the auction price, freight, custom-duty and taxes. After his calculator blips the total, he is amazed at the figure. It is very high. The total keeps him away from this option too. He finds out that although the car is very good, scratchless, grade 5 with A interior with no PKDM (Pakistan Domestic Market) car even able to eat its dust when it comes to quality and reliability, it is way too high in price. He asks himself, "Which part of the total price (auction price, freight, custom duty and taxes) is unfairly high and should have been reasonable?" Mr. X finds out that it is the custom duty and taxes which have not only been recently increased but are charged in dollars. He is told that because the custom-duty is charged in dollars it has increased because of the falling rupee. Mr. X fails to understand why the Pakistani government is charging the custom-duty in dollars when the transaction is done within the boundary of the state of Pakistan. He is further told by the custom clearing agent that the government has increased the taxes too because it has gone broke and very hungry for money and therefore she (the government) has decided to rip off her people. She (the government) is already doing so by indirect taxation, increased fuel and utility bills which has hit her people hard in the shape of traumatic and unbearable inflation. Mr. X walks out of this option because of the high price-tag as the cost of this option is beyond his budget.

    Mr. X's final two options: Mr. X is very worried now and finds out that all of his options are distasteful. He narrows down his option to two, number 1 (brand new PKDM) and number 4 (self-imported good grade JDM bought directly from an auction house in Japan). He looks at the two options very carefully:

    Option number 1: If he goes for option number 1 (brand new PKDM) he gets a relatively less expensive brand-new stuff with a fabulous resale value but a car of very low quality.

    Option number 4: He examines his other option, option number 4 (self-imported, good grade JDM bought directly from an auction house). If he goes for this option, he gets fabulous quality but a car with a very high price-tag and a relatively low resale value. It is beyond his budget too. Price keeps him away from this option.

    Mr. X's final pick: Option number 1 (brand-new PKDM car). He has reluctantly picked this option because the purchase price is low as compared to option number 4 (self-import JDM). Low price has forced him to pick this option.

    My conclusion: The government has allowed the import of good grade, used JDMs from Japan with fabulous quality but has made the price-tag beyond the reach of a common user. She has increased the duty and taxes so much that it is keeping the end-user away from this option. Therefore a common Pakistani is forced to buy low-priced, low quality vehicles made by the local manufacturers. All of this is being done on purpose. I don't know why? Why are we forced to go to the local manufacturers? Why we have to spend our hard-earned money to get low-quality vehicles from the local manufacturers? Why is this local manufacturer Mafia ruling all the way?

    I've written this thread to highlight the various options a car-buyer has today. I've concluded that we the car-buyers don't have any option but to go to the local manufacturers to buy their sub-standard crap which is not at par with the international standard. These local manufacturers are ripping off the car-buyers since 1983 when the first Pakistani manufactured Suzuki SS80FR (800 cc) came into the market. The sad part is that the government is allowing them to do so. Is she (the government) getting any kickbacks? Probably yes!

    Regards.
    Thats my story word by word...... Do i know u? Have we ever met?

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    Quote Originally Posted by bango View Post
    Nice write up.


    i do however disagree that pkdm cars are of poor quality.

    You want to see poor quality, see the new nissan sunny made in india, or the usdm galant. Or just pick any 2005-2008 Mustang or trailblazer. I find the new civic's and swift's quality to be v satisfactory.
    Mohtaram Bango Sahib,
    Thanks for your input.

    1. About the quality of PKDM cars I would like to say that Pakistani manufacturers lack both the technology and facility to make cars with a standard at par with the standard of Japanese, West European and North American manufacturers. Giving you one example of how welding is done in Pakistan. When sheet metal is turned into body shell of a car, you need to weld at certain places on the metal. In Japan, it is done by robots and the welding stroke is over in milliseconds. In Pakistan, it is done by hand. Workers weld the spots on metal by hand and the welding stroke is not over in milliseconds but it must take them a time several folds than that before it is over. What is the effect of welding sheet metal by hand? It causes that spot to lose its strength. When those weak spots experience trauma during driving, it causes the metal to fatigue. Over time those spots lose significant strength.

    This is just one example where we introduce poor engineering quality into our cars. There is no robotic welding in any assembly-line in Pakistan. No robotic welding means 'poor quality'.

    2. We have to compare counterparts, oranges with oranges and apples with apples:

    a) Compare a 660cc JDM with Suzuki Mehran. Winner: 660cc JDM.

    b) Compare a JDM Toyota Vitz with a Suzuki Alto or Cultus. Winner: Toyota Vitz.

    c) Compare Toyota Belta with a PKDM 1.3L XLi or a GLi. Winner: JDM Toyota Belta.

    e) Compare a JDM Toyota Axio with a GLi Automatic. Winner JDM Axio.

    f) Compare a JDM Toyota Premio 1.8L with a PKDM Honda Civic. Winner JDM Toyota Premio.

    Mind you, all the above JDMs are grade 5, interior A.

    Regards.
    "Science is nothing but trained and organised common sense," Thomas Henry Huxley.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MGK View Post
    How much do you pay for insurance of a used car in uk? That will elaborate!
    The insurance depends on a number of factors and in some cases it is quite reasonable. In any case, the maintenance costs here match reasonably well with income standards and since the buying costs are so low, any tom dick and harry can buy a car. One cannot say the same about Pakistan so the comparison is invalid. Buying a decent car in Pakistan remains a distant dream for every middle class family.

    PS: It is NOT a luxury.

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    Great right up and a true story indeed,

    Same time last year i was in a dilema too, Buying a used car isnt as easy as it seems, Some how Suzuki Certified cars wernt avalible when i was looking for one or they didnt had the color i was looking for, Alto/Coure had discontinued, I initialy started of with a budget of 6-6.5 lacks looking for a Coure.

    On looking at Coures i found non of good (my type condition) under 6.75 bracket for 2009 + models where as 2011 model were avalible nearing about 7-7.75 lacks. My father here told me if you are (me) looking for a used car get some Japanese car in that range. I started looking and started finding out that a registered japanese car is a peice of craps but the cars with dealers are gems they show you retarted cars saying apki range mei to yei milegi :/

    Cuting it short no Mira avalible in 7.5 lacks range, a good unreg Mira came in 7.75-8.25 bracket, To my knowledge i had seen adds for basic package Passos for 8.5 lacks and i thot 50k should be a negotiating margin, And heard too much about 660cc not being rigid enough so Mira wasnt on my mind anymore (altho i still like the cars looks).

    I looked and looked finaly found a fresh cleared 26k genuine driven Passo everything was a-okay the auction sheet was okay no marks, no A/W/U/B/X etc but a R grade which haunted me.

    I got it translated just to came to know the spare wheel area was majorly hit and repaced (undercarriage damage) (it had a XX in the comments section not the cars body map) so by seeing at the 4.5 A grade you cant judge what the report makers comments say.

    Left that car started searching again with a broken heart, finally found a facelifted Vitz on Pakwheels and went for that car, i had to strech my budget from 6.5 to 9 lacks But that was i that i had enough savings, Or else its not possible to find a decent car.


    Other then that keeping duties high, Its the goverments job to protect the local industry aswell as facilitate the local people from the OWN money or the local monopoly. Belive it or not when you tell a metric student to solve a exam of a 3 year old and tell them to compete its not fare, Same case is with the local industry, The japanese industry is atleast 40-50 years old, While are local industry has a small sales figure and is very young when compared to the Japanese Auto Industry. By this i dont promote Mehran being sold but we need to be a little less harsh on it.
    Get over the fact that Xli lacks power windows, Its an Xli because it lacks thoose features or else it would be a Gli or an Altis if had all the goodies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by supereagle View Post
    Mohtaram Baleno Sahib,
    I'm outlining a scenario in the current situation. Your Lancer is a 2007 and must have been imported when cars upto five years old were allowed and these days one can import cars not more than three years old meaning that today one can import a model not earlier than 2010. When your 2007 Lancer was imported, it was much cheaper to do so. The number of cars imported from Japan today is negligible as compared to when five year old models were allowed because the import price has gone through the roof.

    I've outlined the four options one would face if one wanted to buy a car today. No doubt JDMs have a better quality than PKDM cars as you have put it. I hope you've got my point.

    Regards.
    I agree, in the present scenario with 3 years old cars allowed its a bit difficult.
    However, the JDM cars imports helped finish off the "ON" on local cars.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nabeelaslam381 View Post
    Lets buy a car in Pakistan today -1289969
    Thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baleno1300 View Post
    I agree, in the present scenario with 3 years old cars allowed its a bit difficult.
    However, the JDM cars imports helped finish off the "ON" on local cars.
    Mohtaram Baleno Sahib,
    Thanks for your input. At the moment there is a big backlog of imported JDMs in the market because of which the 'ON' has been affected and reduced to almost zilch. Over 52500 vehicles have been injected into the market by the illegal and so called 'amnesty scheme' which has taken away the demand of cars. All these factors have shaved off the 'ON' on the brand new PKDMs (Pakistan Domestic Market).

    Regards.

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    Quote Originally Posted by supereagle View Post
    Mohtaram Bango Sahib,
    Thanks for your input.

    1. About the quality of PKDM cars I would like to say that Pakistani manufacturers lack both the technology and facility to make cars with a standard at par with the standard of Japanese, West European and North American manufacturers. Giving you one example of how welding is done in Pakistan. When sheet metal is turned into body shell of a car, you need to weld at certain places on the metal. In Japan, it is done by robots and the welding stroke is over in milliseconds. In Pakistan, it is done by hand. Workers weld the spots on metal by hand and the welding stroke is not over in milliseconds but it must take them a time several folds than that before it is over. What is the effect of welding sheet metal by hand? It causes that spot to lose its strength. When those weak spots experience trauma during driving, it causes the metal to fatigue. Over time those spots lose significant strength.

    This is just one example where we introduce poor engineering quality into our cars. There is no robotic welding in any assembly-line in Pakistan. No robotic welding means 'poor quality'.

    2. We have to compare counterparts, oranges with oranges and apples with apples:

    a) Compare a 660cc JDM with Suzuki Mehran. Winner: 660cc JDM.

    b) Compare a JDM Toyota Vitz with a Suzuki Alto or Cultus. Winner: Toyota Vitz.

    c) Compare Toyota Belta with a PKDM 1.3L XLi or a GLi. Winner: JDM Toyota Belta.

    e) Compare a JDM Toyota Axio with a GLi Automatic. Winner JDM Axio.

    f) Compare a JDM Toyota Premio 1.8L with a PKDM Honda Civic. Winner JDM Toyota Premio.

    Mind you, all the above JDMs are grade 5, interior A.

    Regards.
    Mohtaram Supereagle sahab,

    Your point 1 is technically debateable which will lead nowhere, I'll jump to point two.

    1. I couldn't get your apple to apple and oranges comparisons : you're comparing 660cc cars to 850cc cars, 1000 cc cars to 1.3 liter cars. You're comparing 3-7 years old cars to brand new out of the factory cars, and you're calling it comparing Apples to Apples? With all due respect, what benchmark are you considering?

    2. Even in that comparison, you've just 'announced' winnners out of thin air. The notion that Belta is better than a GLi OR a Premio is better than Civic is your personal preference.

    I along with many would prefer a brand spanking new Honda Civic over a 3 years old Premio anyday for the peace of mind, for the warranty it comes with, for the new car smell (smell is a metaphor in case its not clear) and for the guarantee that the parts will be readily available, brand new, even in the smaller cities, and a number of qualities you can choose from.

    Most importantly, I will choose it over an old premio because I know for a fact that the brand new civic and the brand new corollas are built at reasonably good quality standards. The 'PKDM is pathetic quality' is cliched more than it should've been. Just like people travelling first time on an Airplane find it their foremost duty to come and announce that 'yaar PIA di service bari fazool ae' - as if they have KLMs and Lufthansas to compare it with.
    A Post-Wh0re is a user who's only aim in life is to increase his post count. He/she gets off by receiving likes and mentions, and considers his post count a medal on his skinny chest. A post-Wh0re is the human equivalent of Chihuahua..bickering pointlessly, effortlessly, permanently.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chinyoti View Post
    Great right up and a true story indeed,

    Same time last year i was in a dilema too, Buying a used car isnt as easy as it seems, Some how Suzuki Certified cars wernt avalible when i was looking for one or they didnt had the color i was looking for, Alto/Coure had discontinued, I initialy started of with a budget of 6-6.5 lacks looking for a Coure.

    On looking at Coures i found non of good (my type condition) under 6.75 bracket for 2009 + models where as 2011 model were avalible nearing about 7-7.75 lacks. My father here told me if you are (me) looking for a used car get some Japanese car in that range. I started looking and started finding out that a registered japanese car is a peice of craps but the cars with dealers are gems they show you retarted cars saying apki range mei to yei milegi :/

    Cuting it short no Mira avalible in 7.5 lacks range, a good unreg Mira came in 7.75-8.25 bracket, To my knowledge i had seen adds for basic package Passos for 8.5 lacks and i thot 50k should be a negotiating margin, And heard too much about 660cc not being rigid enough so Mira wasnt on my mind anymore (altho i still like the cars looks).

    I looked and looked finaly found a fresh cleared 26k genuine driven Passo everything was a-okay the auction sheet was okay no marks, no A/W/U/B/X etc but a R grade which haunted me.

    I got it translated just to came to know the spare wheel area was majorly hit and repaced (undercarriage damage) (it had a XX in the comments section not the cars body map) so by seeing at the 4.5 A grade you cant judge what the report makers comments say.

    Left that car started searching again with a broken heart, finally found a facelifted Vitz on Pakwheels and went for that car, i had to strech my budget from 6.5 to 9 lacks But that was i that i had enough savings, Or else its not possible to find a decent car.


    Other then that keeping duties high, Its the goverments job to protect the local industry aswell as facilitate the local people from the OWN money or the local monopoly. Belive it or not when you tell a metric student to solve a exam of a 3 year old and tell them to compete its not fare, Same case is with the local industry, The japanese industry is atleast 40-50 years old, While are local industry has a small sales figure and is very young when compared to the Japanese Auto Industry. By this i dont promote Mehran being sold but we need to be a little less harsh on it.
    Mohtaram Chinyoti Sahib,
    Here are my points addressing your post:

    1. An R grade is a car with accident damage and therefore can't be graded as a 4.5. A 4.5 car is a very good car. XX showing on an auction report implies a replaced part.

    2. As a routine, cars coming into Pakistan have a highest grade of 3.5 and they are bought from importers by auto dealer and then undergo repairs like repairing scratches and dents and then repainted, have their odometers rolled back and are falsely upgraded to a 4.5 by dealers and then driven into their showrooms with forged auction reports showing them as a 4.5 grade whereas in fact they are a 3.5 grade.

    3. You have brought up the issue of protectionism, that the local industry should be protected. The local industry was allowed to assemble cars in Pakistan with the understanding that they would be manufactured in Pakistan and not just assembled which if had occurred (manufacturing of car), it would have brought down the price significantly, but that has not happened. Dollar and Yen has been going up ever since because of a falling Rupee, duty and taxes have also gone up, all this has contributed to higher auto prices in Pakistan. In Dollar and Yen terms, the prices have not changed much. I don't quite understand why the local car industry should be protected at the cost of ripping off their end-users!

    4. You say that we should not be harsh on Mehran. Why should we not be because the body shell of Mehran has not changed since 1989. The technology is also almost the same. Suzuki has not been able to give her users with any innovative technology over time. The same car over two decades. This is utterly disgusting and unacceptable! Our hard-earned money has to go down the drain to buy a substandard product in the name of protectionism? I just don't quite understand!

    5. The story of local manufacturers is of broken promises, unfulfilled dreams and frustration.

    Regards.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bango View Post
    Mohtaram Supereagle sahab,

    Your point 1 is technically debateable which will lead nowhere, I'll jump to point two.

    1. I couldn't get your apple to apple and oranges comparisons : you're comparing 660cc cars to 850cc cars, 1000 cc cars to 1.3 liter cars. You're comparing 3-7 years old cars to brand new out of the factory cars, and you're calling it comparing Apples to Apples? With all due respect, what benchmark are you considering?

    2. Even in that comparison, you've just 'announced' winnners out of thin air. The notion that Belta is better than a GLi OR a Premio is better than Civic is your personal preference.

    I along with many would prefer a brand spanking new Honda Civic over a 3 years old Premio anyday for the peace of mind, for the warranty it comes with, for the new car smell (smell is a metaphor in case its not clear) and for the guarantee that the parts will be readily available, brand new, even in the smaller cities, and a number of qualities you can choose from.

    Most importantly, I will choose it over an old premio because I know for a fact that the brand new civic and the brand new corollas are built at reasonably good quality standards. The 'PKDM is pathetic quality' is cliched more than it should've been. Just like people travelling first time on an Airplane find it their foremost duty to come and announce that 'yaar PIA di service bari fazool ae' - as if they have KLMs and Lufthansas to compare it with.
    Bango Sahib, aap tau lagta hai naaraaz hee ho gayay hain.

    Regards.

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    Quote Originally Posted by umair94 View Post
    Great write up. It's the sad reality. But what if Mr. X cant afford a new PKDM? And there are a lot of such people in Pakistan. Hardly any semi-satisfying options for them.
    Mohtaram Umair94,
    I can understand the scenario of someone not in a position of buying a brand-new PKDM. The only option for such individuals is to go for a used PKDM or a JDM which has been used in Pakistan for sometime which brings the price of the car down. A used JDM has lesser resale value as compared to a used PKDM, so looking it another way it is a blessing for the buyer. A good quality car for a reduced price provided it has been imported bearing at least a 4.5 grade. If one can verify its auction report, it would be fabulous. So buyers falling in that bracket do have options. One has to do some legwork to find such a car and with some effort he will find it.

    Regards.

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    Quote Originally Posted by supereagle View Post
    Mohtaram Omar Sahib,
    Thanks for your input. I've gone through your thread on how to import a JDM. It is indeed very helpful.

    My points are as under addressing your points you have raised in your above post:

    1. Price is a big issue in the equation. If you import a grade 5, interior grade A, 2010 1.5L Toyota Axio, it will cost you around Rs. 2.3 million today. If you go for a PKDM Honda Civic, it will cost you around Rs. 2.7 million and it is a 1.8L. So one can't compare a 1.5L Axio with a 1.8L PKDM Honda Civic but there is a bit of a juxtaposing between the two because of the price factor. Thanks to our government who has made that comparison possible by bringing the price of the two vehicles in juxtaposition.

    2. You can compare a 2010 JDM grade 5, interior grade A Toyota Premio 1.8 XEX with our PKDM Honda Civic. Quality wise we can see that the Premio is lot better and I'm talking about a grade 5 Premio with less than 10,000km on the clock. But the flip-side is that it costs a staggering 3.5 million to import it into Pakistan today. Who will spend that much of a money on a Premio? Only a fool would and who has made it possible to happen (i.e. no Premios being imported today)? The government's import regulations. If you look around, you won't find a 2010, grade 5, interior A, Toyota Premio XEX in Pakistan, only a handful and those too might be dubious imports with odometers rolled back and forged auction sheets. Import regulations have elbowed out the Premio from the competition just because of one factor; 'the price', which is being dictated by the import policy of the government. If the government causes the price of a Premio to come down to Rs. 2.9 million, people will prefer it over a PKDM Civic because of the quality issue. Japanese are such good car makers that they have taught Detroit (the big three: GM, Ford and Chrysler) how to make cars.

    3. You have yourself outlined that price is a major factor in the purchase of a car. Premio can't compete with a Civic because the import cost of the former (Premio) is way too high and the major factor in its price is the figure of duty and taxes imposed by our government dictated by IMF and other lending agencies.

    4. About your point on JDM being used and spending lots of money on a 'used' car. Well it all depends on the auction grade. A grade 5 car bought from an auction in Japan is an almost brand new. Grade S is even a higher grade, you will be aware of it.

    5. PKDM cars are not made at as high a standard as followed by the Japanese, West-European or North American one because we lack both the technology and facility to do so. We are just not up to it.

    6. You like your Civic for Rs. 2.6 million. Imagine having a 2010 JDM grade 5, interior A, Toyota Premio XEX for that amount? But it actually costs Rs. 3.5 million to land it in Pakistan today! It beats the PKDM Honda hands down in both quality and driving pleasure. If it cost Rs. 2.6 million, every Honda buyer would switch to Toyota Premio because of better build quality.

    7. No doubt a 660cc JDM is a better choice than a local Mehran.

    8. Suzuki Swift is a good car.

    9. There is only one grade 5 vehicle being imported from Japan today and it is the Toyota Land Cruiser. Prado coming into Pakistan is a 4.5 grade and both have lots of buyers in Pakistan.

    Regards.
    Unfortunately self importing a car is not easy. It has to pass through dozens of checks and you've to bribe people to make sure no one tampers with it at the port, etc.
    And once it's (talking about a 5A grade car) in your driveway, how are you going to tune it? Not every part is easily available. I'm sure it will be a pleasure to own for a few months until the 'service due' sign shows up on the display. Now you will have to look what things are to be changed in its owner manual, the OBD scanners may not always work on your car.
    Then god forbid, someone crashes into you. Are you going to go to a scrap yard like Bilal gunj to buy a refurbished headlight/radiator? Or are you going pay ten times the amount to get a brand new light from a dealership abroad- which don't always have spares for old cars. So you're stuck with that gaping hole in your cars front end.

    When we shifted to Pakistan in 1992 from UK my father brought his '89 UK model corolla with him. It was similar to the corollas here but it's a/c never worked. It's carburettor had to be imported from UK in 1999 (that too from a scrap yard as Toyota UK No longer had spares for this particular model)
    But it's drive was amazing. Yet it had so many problems. It was sold in 2002 at a good price. But we suffered for 10 years.
    I know that UK cars now have factory fitted air conditioning units but if Mr X wishes to keep a car for 10 years, he should definitely buy a PKDM.
    However if Mr X can change his car every 2-3 years, then there's no harm in getting a good auction grade car-but the depreciation won't be pleasant.
    It was a very tough decision to spend a huge amount on the' 13 civic but we know it has no problems and it has 20,000 kms warranty. For a person who has spent his hard earned cash, I think it's a wise decision.

    comfort wise, the international market cars are way superior. If only good after sales service is available. Shahnwaz, porsche and dewan have good tuning centers but the price is so high a normal person can't afford to even get his precious cars oil changed from there.
    Unfortunately for us corolla, civic and swift are the only options if you want a peace of mind without any worries of maintenance.
    And the best value for money are civic and swift at the moment.

    Sent from my GT-I9100G using PW Forums mobile app

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