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Thread: Amriki, Indians etc. all are patriotic car buyers

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    Default Amriki, Indians etc. all are patriotic car buyers

    REVO is a prayer answered for many.

    Now people don't get upset with the word. Patriot. In USA, where there is intense competitive forces of highest magnitude and there is no room for anything other than pure best product in the world, EVEN here, PATRIOTISM SELLS. I work in American Auto Industry. They have improved their product lineup immensely since the 1980s. Every American knows that a Japanese car is alot better in quality than US made, GM, Ford, and Chrysler. Now even Korean Cars have managed to beat Americans in quality, even after American cars improvement in every category.

    BUT, Americans still will buy a FORD, GM, or Chrysler despite it being an inferior CAR, SUV, Truck, compared to a Japanese make. I live in the suburbs of Detroit, where the WORLD's Automobile industry was born. Henry Ford (The inventor and innovator of many areas that led to growth in Auto Industry) was from Dearborn (Detoit suburb), Michigan a city known for its Ford auto plants around the world.

    Now, here Americans are very patriotic. They will look at you with disgust, if you drive a foreign car. These people in Detroit are largely employed by Automobile factories. So, they are not only Extremely Patriotic, when it comes to buying American, but also Extremely BRAND LOYAL. A Ford guy will always buy a Ford, will never buy even a GM Automobile, despite it being an American Car Brand too. I have even heard of some American Comming out of his car and smashing a FOREIGN MADE car with a Baseball bat at a traffic signal , and threatening to kill the driver of that foreign car.

    Its not just AMERICANS that are true to their Country, but also Chinese and Indians. All the citizens of the car making countries buy their own cars. Call it Patriotism or whatever..... ITS WORKS, and it is essential for the well being of a country.
    Permanent positive change (in your life, or the society) with proper planning occurs slowly. While without planning any change becomes a disaster rather quickly. Said by Whocares...

    I got Turbo fingers... Anyone wants to race me in typing....

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    Well some thing to think the most American car built is Honda built at Marysville, Ohio. It is 90% made in America. According to USAToday, this car has its 90% parts built in America. GM and Ford, are mostly built in Mexico, they only have American names or offices. So the American cars are built in Mexico and Japs in American, where is the Patriotism? It is just a marketing tool used by Car manufacturers. Just some food for thought!
    "The value of life can be measured by how many times your soul has been deeply stirred." Soichiro Honda

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    You are right about "SOME" model of GM or Ford being made in Mexico or even China, Europe or India. But that does not made the brand NON-American. The Pride lies where the Headquarters are based in. If Honda makes "ONE" Model in US, that will not make it American, the fact that they make ONE model in US, is exactly a Marketing strategy, to lead Americans to believe that HONDA is made in your HOME COUNTRY. Its not just honda, but also Toyota's Camery, and TUNDRA and SEQUOIA brands are Made entirely in USA. Thats just a strategy to keep Americans loyal to the brand, plus also it makes sense to make a car where you sell it. BUT the headquarters of these Japanese car Makers are based in Japan, where they take most if not all the profit (Minus the salaries of the workers here in US) earn in US and around the world. Why is Japan, an Island Nation with no Natural resources, the SECOND richest country in this World after USA. Its there smart strategies to market their products around the world. We can fool our selves by taking pride in owning a TOYOTA COROLLA 2.OD or Honda CIVIC OR CITY, or any of SUZUKI brand, but they only person who is entitle to any PRIDE from these cars is a JAPANESE National.

    Germans are also known around the world from their great cars and take great pride in it. I had a classmate in University, she was from Germany, the first thing I said to her was, So, you are from Mercedez Land, she smiled and acknowledged YES I AM from Mercedez Land with Pride. So, its power of a company that can make a citizen of a country PROUD, wherever they go around the world. So, why not us Pakistanis, take this DOMESTIC Pakistani car industry, seriously and make it a success story and when we go around the world, PEOPLE say to us, SO, you are from a country that makes such and such car, and we can say back to them with PRIDE, YES I AM.....

    Think about it...
    Permanent positive change (in your life, or the society) with proper planning occurs slowly. While without planning any change becomes a disaster rather quickly. Said by Whocares...

    I got Turbo fingers... Anyone wants to race me in typing....

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    Shamefully, so far we the Pakistanis are known as people "that help OSAMA" or terrorists.... Whenever someone asks where I am from, I tell them with any hesitance, PAKISTAN, But many say.. OH...... I see...
    with a sad face.....


    So, why not make our country be known to the world as a Well designed, well manufactured, car maker, instead of what it is known for around the world NOW a days...
    Permanent positive change (in your life, or the society) with proper planning occurs slowly. While without planning any change becomes a disaster rather quickly. Said by Whocares...

    I got Turbo fingers... Anyone wants to race me in typing....

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    The reason Japanese cars are built in the USA is to avoid import qoutes and certain taxes. But Since the government has issued a new law recently where they have to place on the sticker price the percentage of American manufacture. Surely good time to use it as a marketing tool.
    This is an Article I am placing here so you can read it and decide which is better. I wish Pakistan becomes famous for other thing then manufacturing of cars, and which they do, eg aircrafts and we are apperantly selling them to other countries also.

    Regarding Osama, pls don't start on that!

    Defining an American Car

    by Ann Job

    Cross-ownership of automakers, widely dispersed sourcing of parts and global vehicle design and development make it difficult for consumers to know truly how "American" their vehicles are.


    The 2003 Saturn VUE (above) will have less domestic content than the 2004 model will once it hits the streets—even though the new version will be powered by an engine built by Japan-based Honda Motor Co.


    The Chrysler Town & Country has high domestic content of 88 percent. It's built at a factory in Canada.

    advertisement



    With 70 percent U.S./Canadian parts content, the Kentucky-built Toyota Avalon ranks higher than the Chrysler PT Cruiser in domestic content.



    The Lexus ES 300 is one of the vehicles sold in the U.S. that has no U.S./Canadian parts content. In addition, the ES is built in Japan.


    The 2004 Saturn VUE—the first General Motors Corp. vehicle to be offered with a Honda-built engine—is more "American" than the 2003 VUE that doesn't have the Honda engine. What? How can this be?
    The proof is there in the federal government-mandated content labels affixed to the VUEs' windows.

    Keith Chartrau, launch planner for VUE, said the so-called domestic content label on 2004 VUEs with Honda's 3.5-liter V6 will show "an increase" in domestic content, because the Honda-supplied engine is built in Ohio. Final, exact percentages on the 2004 VUE's content were still being worked up, he added.

    Previous six-cylinder VUEs had an engine that came from and was built by GM of Europe, which did not count as domestic content because the engines were manufactured overseas and shipped to the VUE's assembly plant in Tennessee. Note, though, that Saturn's parent company—GM—is headquartered in Detroit, and Saturn was designed at GM's studios in the Detroit area.

    Welcome to the weird world of automotive lineage. Tracking the content of vehicles today is a mind-numbing experience, even for folks in the auto industry.

    With each car having as many as 20,000 parts, it's easy to see why automakers maintain staffs just to certify and analyze the content of each model and provide information for government-mandated labels.

    Still, the required labels found on new cars and trucks that are meant to detail "domestic content" don't provide a full picture.

    How We Got Here
    The domestic content labels were mandated after the U.S. Congress, at the urging of the United Auto Workers union and Detroit's Big Three, passed the American Automobile Labeling Act (AALA) of 1992.

    It required automakers to formulate and post on every new model the origin of the vehicle's parts and the vehicle's assembly site.

    The AALA took effect with vehicles manufactured after Oct. 1, 1994.

    But auto industry trends have sort of swamped the intent of the law. For one thing, the auto industry has been consolidating, with larger automakers buying into or buying altogether other car companies.

    For example, Chrysler vehicles today are products of Germany-based DaimlerChrysler, and Ford Motor Co.'s portfolio of vehicles includes English-built Jaguars and Land Rovers as well as Swedish-built Volvos.

    Also, foreign-based carmakers such as Honda, Toyota, Nissan, BMW and Mercedes-Benz have opened factories in the United States and build both vehicles and parts—such as engines—on U.S. soil.

    Add in the nonstop pressure on automakers to source parts globally as inexpensively and as efficiently as possible, and you can begin to see the complications inherent in any domestic content labeling.

    In addition, the domestic content requirement, as it now stands, mixes U.S. and Canadian parts into a single percentage, so there's no real way to know the U.S.-only content.

    Even this percentage doesn't take into account where the vehicle is ultimately assembled. This information is available on another line in the domestic content label.

    Examples Easy to Find
    So you think that Volkswagen's New Beetle is a fun reincarnation of the old Beetles of the '60s and '70s?
    The styling may be derived from the old cars, but production is strictly modern.

    While the original Beetles for U.S. customers came from Germany, every one of the New Beetles for U.S. customers today is built in Mexico. And the New Beetle's 5-speed manual transmission comes from Argentina.

    Volkswagen of America spokesman Tony Fouladpour said he has heard anecdotally of some New Beetle buyers being concerned about the car's assembly in Mexico.

    "I think dealers are good at dealing with it, telling people we have been producing these vehicles in Mexico (for the Mexican market) since the 1960s," he said. "And the quality there is comparable to what we have in our plants in Germany."

    Also built in Mexico is Chrysler's PT Cruiser, whose looks harken back to the American gangster cars of the 1920s and '30s.

    In fact, the Toyota Avalon has more domestic content than a PT Cruiser—70 percent vs. the PT Cruiser's 61 percent. The Avalon is built at a factory in Kentucky.

    Not Part of Most Buying Decisions
    Auto analysts say most car shoppers don't use content information to decide which model to buy.

    "Consumer research indicates that for a lot of people [the Buy American issue] really doesn't come up," said George Peterson, president of the automotive research firm, AutoPacific Inc. of Tustin, Calif. "They buy what they want to buy."

    Peterson noted it's especially true of younger buyers who don't have the same strong feelings about buying American as do older buyers.

    "They're more open," he said, adding that many young people are employed in services, rather than in manufacturing. "As a result, they're not tied to the union jobs of old and don't have the same sensitivities as did earlier generations," Peterson said.

    Dan Bonawitz, vice president of corporate planning and logistics at American Honda, also has seen little evidence that the labels impact sales. "Our experience is people don't even pay attention to it," he said.

    In fact, an evaluation by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration in calendar 2001 found just 5 percent of the 645 people surveyed about the domestic content labels said they were influenced by the label to any degree whatsoever.

    Even among consumers who described themselves as Buy American advocates, just 20 percent said they knew of the so-called content labels and only 9 percent had read one at a dealership, according to NHTSA.

    No Push to Remove Labels
    Still, no one seems hell-bent on getting rid of the labels. "That's not even on our radar screens, it's not on our lobbying agenda," said Ellen Dickson, who's the policy public affairs person at Ford Motor Co.

    Heidi Blumenthal, director of the legislative affairs for the American International Automobile Dealers Association which represents 5,000 dealers, said while gathering the content information can be costly, it's not a front-burner issue in the auto industry right now.

    She said consumers don't care about content anymore because they have seen in recent years how the auto industry has become global.

    People are buying international cars now, Blumenthal said, adding "they want to buy the best."

    Again Food for Thought!
    "The value of life can be measured by how many times your soul has been deeply stirred." Soichiro Honda

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    @datzburier
    I want to ask only this....why dont u go back to Pakistan buy "REVO" first make an example then convey pplz.Words are easy to write but action makes diffrence.I respect ur feelings but words are not enough.

    U write about japan "an island" nation with no natural resources but 2nd richest nation in the world.Let me tell u why they r rich coz they do action not waiste their time.
    I am a patriotic Pakistani & understand ur feelings but reality is much diffrent.
    "REVO" is not the only hope of our industry but a start which have to go long.This is early to talk bout their future & expecting too much from ADAM MOTORS coz they fail to show their product on the time.
    If u realy in auto industry then put this in ur mind that "commitment" is the only thing that make u survive in this world.
    Lexus in on top in america coz of thir quality,design,price & "after sale service" & they achive this in 65years.
    "REVO" need not only time to prove but also need years of super service.
    I hope there comes a day when cancer goes back to just being a zodiac sign

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    You have a valid point osakaboy, that why don't I go back. The reason is simple. I do not want to add to just another statistic of unemployed. The way to gain employment in Pakistan, to my knowledge, is thru paying your way to the "higher ups" or having "internal connections" with decision makers. I know many engineers, financial analysts in my circle of friends who are from our dear homeland. This does not mean we are shying away from the challenge, but the simple fact that you need some one up there to gain any sort of employment.

    The current boost in auto sales has gained my attention along with many of my friends, who are seriously considering relocating back to Pakistan.

    Hopefully, the engineering/financial sector continues to mature, and can better "utilize" foreign educated and experienced inviduals such as myself, till then its better for foreign trained individual to stay abroad and serve Pakistan by sending much needed cash back and continue to invest back home in various areas, (Property, businesses, etc.), which many expats are currently involved in.
    Permanent positive change (in your life, or the society) with proper planning occurs slowly. While without planning any change becomes a disaster rather quickly. Said by Whocares...

    I got Turbo fingers... Anyone wants to race me in typing....

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    I do not believe in "Paying" the higher ups, "Rishwat", thats a great sin, for employment, and will never take part in such crime. It only negatively reinforces their crooked habbits. As far as gaining employment thru merrit is concerned, I have heard of some cases recently where some US educated people have actually gotten good jobs in Pakistan, Paying alteast RS. 150,000 per month strictly on basis of merit, thats encouraging, hopefully this trend continues and expands. That will bring a revolution in Pakistan management/engineers, a much needed change, Insha_Allah...
    Permanent positive change (in your life, or the society) with proper planning occurs slowly. While without planning any change becomes a disaster rather quickly. Said by Whocares...

    I got Turbo fingers... Anyone wants to race me in typing....

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    @datzburier
    I think u did not get my point.I dont ask u to leave US forever but when ever u go back on vacations then inspect the revo in all manners.After that we talk about this....thats all.
    I am a proud Pakistani working in Japan from last 8years & feel same about my Land.
    Well i think same that time has come to be a solid part of our land.
    I hope there comes a day when cancer goes back to just being a zodiac sign

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    HI I AM AN INDIAN

    I HAVE BEEN READING THIS TOPIC WITH INTEREST...AND I WOULD LIKE TO ADD SOMETHING....


    INDIANS DO NOT BUY CARS MADE IN INDIA BECAUSE THEY ARE PATRIOTIC.... THEY BUY INDIAN CARS BECAUSE THEY ARE GOOD IF NOT BETTER IN QUALITY THAN FOREIGN CARS...

    CAR MAKERS LIKE TATA AND MAHINDRA HAVE PRODUCED PRODUCTS THAT ARE QUITE WELL DESIGNED WITH GOOD PERFORMANCE AND DECENT BUILD QUALITY.....


    P [GIVEN BELOW ARE PICS OF AUTOS FROM TATA MOTORS AND MAHINDRA MOTORS]



    THE TATA 'INDICA' HATCH AND 'INDIGO MARINA' ESTATE

    Amriki Indians etc all are patriotic car buyers -620488


    Amriki Indians etc all are patriotic car buyers -620489




    TATA 'SAFARI' SUV


    Amriki Indians etc all are patriotic car buyers -620490




    MAHINDRA 'SCORPIO' SUV


    Amriki Indians etc all are patriotic car buyers -620491


    Amriki Indians etc all are patriotic car buyers -620492



    ALL THESE HAVE BEEN POSSIBLE BECAUSE THERE ARE A FEW COURAGEOUS ENTREPERNEURS LIKE RATAN TATA AND ANAND MAHINDRA.... HATS OFF TO THEM...!!

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    Well kavs, Indian cars are terrific. But don't you think you've shown us their pics quite a few number of times?
    Cheers!
    Evolution interrupted.

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    @Kavs
    Sorry, but I have seen both Paki and Indi cars. From the looks one does not seem better then the other. Tata has been the laughing stock of on shows such as Top gear. If the quality is so much better then how come no one ever buys them that is outside India. The pics shown of Indica, and indigo marina are design copies of Ford and the Scorpio is Hyundia based. The one big reason Indians buy car from made in Indi is coz of Indias policies which much more stricter then Pakistans regarding importing of vehicles.
    India is ahead of Pakistan in manufacturing cars but quality wise these two countries have a long way to go.
    Kav you are very welcome on this site, but pls do not use all caps letters, coz it is considered as shouting and I believe which is rude. Good pics though!
    "The value of life can be measured by how many times your soul has been deeply stirred." Soichiro Honda

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    There is no harm in recognizing one's hard work and effort and Indians have put in alot of effort in their engineering, industrial base coupled with more stable government policies and support by the subsequent governments that followed for the good of the country. We had good plans thru out, in fact Pakistan was a little ahead of India, even in Industrial growth, as has been indicated by the per capita growth. But the 1990s proved desvastating, as politicians (Nawaz, Benazir) done immense damage to the economy while sapping eachother's policies, and ruining one decade of progress. Meanwhile, the best decade for India was 1990s, so far, and it is still on upward trajectory. Economic reforms initiated by the then Foreign Minister and now Prime Minister of India, Manmohan Singh, which liberalized the Indian economy and opened it up for foreign investment and collaboration. Suzuki came first to Pakistan in 1983 for assembling and Manufacturing of a range of automobiles. Infact, Suzuki chose Pakistan as first foreign location outside of Japan, for its manufacturing operations due to very positive Industrial performance of Pakistan at that time. But as mentioned earlier, 1990s proved damaging for Pakistan's industrial policies and performance. Meanwhile, Suzuki of Japan along with many other auto manufacturer turned instead to India, after 1990s liberalization of Indian economy.

    By late 1980s, Indian economy was on verge of default, mainly due to collapse of Soviet Union, and India's heavy reliance on Soviet industrial technology. But during early 1990s, Indians made a very smart and clever policy shift to liberalize the Giant untouched Indian economy/consumer base by foreigners. You can see the results now.

    Kavs, you are more than welcome to contribute. You have provided a good insight into Indian Automobile Industry. Thanks. Keep in touch. Now a days, the global economy depends on free flow of goods, and cooperation in Industries, specially between immediate borders.
    Permanent positive change (in your life, or the society) with proper planning occurs slowly. While without planning any change becomes a disaster rather quickly. Said by Whocares...

    I got Turbo fingers... Anyone wants to race me in typing....

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    Mr. datzburier, I am REALLY IMPRESSED by ur indepth knowledge on the automobile scene.... just great


    and yes i won't use caps anymore..


    abt the quality of indian autos...
    well i admit, it's quality can't be said to be at par with the American, Japanese or Korean cars.. but at least indian cars have started to be noticed...

    even japanese goods were once the butt of jokes... but now japanese goods means the promise of quality... not a long time ago Korean were at the receiving end... and see tyhe scenario now..

    quality can't be achieved at one go... it's a journey...

    a journey on which the likes of TATA and MAHINDRA.. (also bike manufactuters like BAJAJ and TVS) have started..

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    Just like in human developmental process, the Progress of industry seems to occur in succession as well. First, One nation in the neighborhood makes great strides, then the neighboring state follows suite. Japan was the first in Asia to achieve the milestone of being fully developed. Infact up until 1960s, Japan was considered a developing country. The dacade of 1970s and beyond, Japan made exponential progress. Same is true for South Korea, it just recently has attained the ranks of developed nations along with per capita income above $10,000 range.

    So the grend of highly developed Nation is moving fast down South. Japan, Korea, Now China is on the Verge of become a Large fully developed industrialized Nation by 2030s.

    South East Asia, Thailand, Malaysia, are closer to joing this rank of developed nations, by 2020s.

    As far as OUR region of South Asia, with Pakistan, India and Bangladesh being the main countries, hopefully our day will come in this century. The progress will continue to happen in successions. India is taking the lead role in this regard. By all means it a welcoming sign for all. Hopefully Pakistan will keep making progress in its current path to recovery and recent Industrial progress (8.25% GDP, for the fiscal year 2004, Second highest in the world, after China).
    Permanent positive change (in your life, or the society) with proper planning occurs slowly. While without planning any change becomes a disaster rather quickly. Said by Whocares...

    I got Turbo fingers... Anyone wants to race me in typing....

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    All those that care about their own country prefer to buy the products made in their own country. What goes around comes around. Your own prosperity, if you live in Pakistan, depends on if you buy Pakistan made products first. You are keeping the money of Pakistan in Pakistan, and not shipping it out to countries where most the PRICE you pay, goes to, if you buy imported things.
    Live life to the fullest.

  17. #17
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    I would like to chime in, albeit very late, to this awesome topic...Thanks datz for your doin' this and Racerf1 - EXCELLENT article (notice the happy caps - lol)

    When people buy products out of what they think is "Patriotism" thay may keep the money in their country, and that is okay for a while, but only if things progress.

    I do not believe in this form of Patriotism, myself. I believe that if products are similar, then you should make the domestic choice. However if their is a superior product at a better price, you should buy that.

    If an Industry does not improve after a reasonable time, say 1 or 2 decades, then one should not blindly support them. This is because those industrialists and "Captains of Industry" that took your money squandered it and didn't improve...To hell with them for their selfish ways!

    By continuing to support mediocre products you are condoning their behavior, enabling continued bad performance.

    I believe that in Pakistan we have to build cars that are the BEST value for Pakistani people that leaves them little choice than to buy it on its own merit...Now that would be real progress.

  18. #18
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    At the end, it all boils down to survivor of the fittest in the jungle. But, in case of running a nation, the government has to act like MOTHER, to protect its babies, the home grown industries. But as those industries grow, they need to learn to move away from the protection of their Mother, the government, and learn to survice on their own. The government should only protect an industry only to a point where they have attained some level of success. The autoparts that are being made in Pakstan now, like Tires, Batteries, lights, etc. should be allowed to be imported, so that the local makers of those products do not compromise on quality. But in case of an entire automobile, like Revo, that company needs to be given some protection in regard to this car. The Mother Pak government needs to look after this Baby Revo for few years atleast, like not charge sales taxes which are almost 70,000 Rs. now. All the other countries, like Malaysia, China, India have given special treatment to all their local National Car Makers, and are still continuing to favor them over all the other foreign automakers.
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    guys indians dont buy indian cars just cos theyre indian. they buy them cos theyre good value. the tata indica gives real good value and offers a cost effective diesel solution. these cars arent that bad. remember tata did bag a contract to supply Rover with Indicas under the ROver City name. The reason the Indica didnt do well was cos it was designed for India. Anyways dont have much idea about paki cars but you can learn more about indian cars and the indian automotive scene(including exotics and modifications) @ www.team-bhp.com

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    IS THIS AN INDIAN WHEELS SITE


    IS IT???





    IS IT???





    LET ME KNOW CUZ I AM CONFUSED






    STOP THIS INDIAN PROPAGANDA








    THIS IS PAKWHEELS OF OUR BELOVED PAKISTAN




    WE LOVE PAKISTAN





    thanks
    Proud to be Pakistani

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