Survey by Qualaroo
+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 21 to 40 of 40

Thread: honda engines or toyota engines?

  1. #1
    PakWheeler Follow
    civiczest_vtec's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Peshawar
    Age
    28
    Posts
    21
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Problems Posted
    0
    Problems Solved
    0
    Best Answers
    0
    Good Answers
    0

    Default honda engines or toyota engines?

    My question frndz whether for same number of valves and same engine cc iz Honda(dohc vtec ones) more powerful or Toyota (twin cam gt )engines?


  2. #21
    Senior PakWheeler Follow
    FLi_GTi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Ahead of you!
    Age
    38
    Posts
    3,116
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Problems Posted
    0
    Problems Solved
    0
    Best Answers
    0
    Good Answers
    0

    Default

    There's two variants available in the S2K. The 2.2 F20C1 for the USDM market was bumped up in displacement and slightly lowered red line. Now to the interesting bits.
    I admit i'm driven more by brand loyalty and love for the product which is (based on experience). Honda has quite a few things to its name. A more sophisticated VTEC when Toyota was just using a standard ON/OFF mechanism for as the VVT amongst others. Toyota on the other hand has always offered platforms that have been versatile throught the the model range. I'll start from the older versions. The venereable 4A-GE 16V 1.6. 240 Naturally aspirated horsepower (Atlantic Series). You mentioned the F20 producing 250 hp from 2.0ltrs. I would love to hear your comments about 240hp from a Naturally aspirated 1.6.AND THATS WAY BACK IN 1993 when Honda had introduced the ZC motor. I'm not saying Honda sucks, the progress that they've made is commendable. Now I'll get alot of flak for this (as always) but the fact of the matter is, HONDA HAS NO PRO-CIRCUIT or RALLY CRED. Don't anyone argue cuz thats how it is. As far as your claims as to Toyota being a sewing machine maker is concerned, i would consider it nothing than a rearranging of facts to make the other look better. Allow me to clearify. Sakichi Toyoda was born in 1867 and in 1907, he formed Toyoda Loom works, a company that by 1930 had grown into the Toyoda Automatic Loom Works (TALW). It was HIS SON Kiichiro Toyoda. Although he shared the inventiveness of his father, Kiichiro Toyoda did not share the fascination with looms. Instead Kiichiro dreamed of building automobiles. In March 1930, he began to build a prototype engine in a corner of the Toyoda Automatic Loom Works factory. He had made enough progress that in 1934, Toyoda opened up an automotive division and completed the engine. The first A1 model was made in May 1935 and the Truck G1 in August. In July 1936, it was decided that the cars produced by TALW would be marketed under the name Toyota. The name was chosen because it sounded better than Toyoda, the katakana characters used to represent it were more aesthetically pleasing and consisted of eight strokes, a lucky number, and because the character was similar to the one representing growth. The Toyota Motor Co., Ltd. (TMC) was formed on August 28, 1937.
    Anther thing, the NSX remains unchanged for OVER a decade now. I dunno about you but i wonder as to why a manufacturer that changes models quicker than dirty diapers is apprehensive about replacing its ageing "supercar". Don't start with the facelifted and rebadged version. Too scared to let go of a winner??? Furthermore as we're discussing irrespective of boundaries here, how about mentioning The Soarer? Windom, Aristo, Celsior? Accord...Bahhh! Toyota's got ten times the lineup, three times the affiliates and is rich enough to buy Ferrari three times over. Hondas engineers worked with Ferrari? Toyota help sort Lotus out.The New Elise uses the 2ZZ-GE. Had it not been for the **** WRC officials that claimed Toyota intentionally tampered with the ST185's Turbos restrictor, we'd still be winning rallies. It was the Celica that ended the feared Quattros reign, Toyota introduces the ANTI LAG SYSTEM. And this actually goes much further back. Colaboration between Lotus and Toyota has been discussed here before.
    Straying from the topic her, but to answer the question in a simple. Its like comparing apples and oranges. Depends on what you're after. Both have the upsides and downsides. Its what suits you for your specific need. And unlike what you read at Temple of VTEC, toyota engines of similar displacement DO NOT produce lesser output.
    |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| C2G - GARAGE | SHOP | TUNE +92 346 8776643 |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

  3. #22
    PakWheeler Follow
    MotownMadman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Detroit
    Age
    54
    Posts
    523
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Problems Posted
    0
    Problems Solved
    0
    Best Answers
    0
    Good Answers
    0

    Default

    Well, FLi, you impress again. But I feel compelled to elaborate relating to the tail end of your latest post.

    I was the Chief Engineer for the Lexus SC400 Convertible (Toyota Soarer) in 1992 and the V8 made 290 hp...smooth as silk, but not much power for a 4.0 liter in 1992.

    Toyota can BUY capability, but as far as Lotus is concerned, they never were an engine design powerhouse. They used Ford engines before and did turbos in the 80's to get capable performance, but keep in mind, Lotus had about 345 hp in a twin turbo 3.5 liter V8 when Ferrari had 380 hp in a 3.5 liter NATURALLY ASPIRATED V8.

    Regarding Ferrari, they didn't work with Honda engineers, they HIRED them. Toyota merely sold and integrated an existing production engine for Lotus due to economies of scale.

    Now in the US the Toyota Camry 3.0 liter V6 has 190 hp, the Honda Accord 3.0 liter V6 has 240 hp and even the new Hyundai Sonata 3.0 liter V6 has 235 hp. What about that my good friend?

  4. #23
    Senior PakWheeler Follow
    c123pk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Karachi
    Age
    40
    Posts
    12,622
    Follows
    1
    Following
    0
    Mentioned
    10 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Problems Posted
    0
    Problems Solved
    0
    Best Answers
    0
    Good Answers
    0

    Default

    Honda is into Petroleum , has good research on petrol engines, no doubt about it
    Toyota is also great but excellent when it comes to Diesel

  5. #24
    Senior PakWheeler Follow
    FLi_GTi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Ahead of you!
    Age
    38
    Posts
    3,116
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Problems Posted
    0
    Problems Solved
    0
    Best Answers
    0
    Good Answers
    0

    Default


    We could do this all day. The accord is what you call Honda's "Flagship". Top of the line. Given the demographs and audience its aimed at, its no biggie they stuffed it full of 240 hp. Mind you, the Camry was never Toyotas. range topper for its entire time in profuction and it continues with the same. Of course the accord won car of the year for some years in a row, and I say power to them. People always constru my rants as a sermon despite my repetitive slogan, "to each his own". What gets me started is when somebody just gets up and takes a swing without knowing where to get at.
    |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| C2G - GARAGE | SHOP | TUNE +92 346 8776643 |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

  6. #25
    Senior PakWheeler Follow
    salmanf1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Lahore
    Posts
    1,243
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Problems Posted
    0
    Problems Solved
    0
    Best Answers
    0
    Good Answers
    0

    Default

    @ MotownMadman
    new Hyundai Sonata has a 3.3 liter 235 hp engine.
    http://www.vmix.com/soloPlayerNoAutoPlay.swf?ID=x6768

  7. #26
    PakWheeler Follow
    MotownMadman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Detroit
    Age
    54
    Posts
    523
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Problems Posted
    0
    Problems Solved
    0
    Best Answers
    0
    Good Answers
    0

    Default

    @salmanf1...
    I stand corrected, my friend. But it is nonetheless true that Toyota has 190 hp on their 3.0 liter and 210 hp on their 3.3 liter engines, while even Friggin' HYUNDAI has more power than Toyota on the 3.3 liter.

    @FLi_GTi...
    Accord and Camry are "bread and butter" profit centers for both companies, and for "flagship" status (which, BTW, I never said) there is Acura and Lexus respectively. My opoint is, that in America Honda is clearly the performance leader. I think in Europe and maybe the rest of the world Toyota may be on top, but that is outside of my realm of knowledge. Now about the Formula Atlantic engine...That is not a production street car engine...

    Allah Hafiz

  8. #27
    Senior PakWheeler Follow
    salmanf1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Lahore
    Posts
    1,243
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Problems Posted
    0
    Problems Solved
    0
    Best Answers
    0
    Good Answers
    0

    Default

    I totally agree with MotownMadman that Honda is known for performance in America.
    http://www.vmix.com/soloPlayerNoAutoPlay.swf?ID=x6768

  9. #28
    Senior PakWheeler Follow
    salmanf1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Lahore
    Posts
    1,243
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Problems Posted
    0
    Problems Solved
    0
    Best Answers
    0
    Good Answers
    0

    Default

    MotownMadman can I ask u couple of questions about USA automobile industry. Why ford is not launching all new focus in USA market when it is losing market share like crazy and why ford 500 does not uses ford fusion engine which more powerful than ford 500 engine.
    http://www.vmix.com/soloPlayerNoAutoPlay.swf?ID=x6768

  10. #29
    Senior PakWheeler Follow
    FLi_GTi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Ahead of you!
    Age
    38
    Posts
    3,116
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Problems Posted
    0
    Problems Solved
    0
    Best Answers
    0
    Good Answers
    0

    Default

    I'm amazed that country that produces something as obscene as the Hummer is actually concerned about a ULEV or LEV certified vehicle. But I'll just take your word for it as you're better placed to comment.
    As far as the 4A-GE ATlantic is concerened, its not a production engine per se as its not fitted in any vehicle ALTHOUGH, offical TMC & TRD (Technocraft) Kits (shortblocks, heads, pistons are available through the TRD, TTE (TMG) outlets. The following are some of the common Toyota engines(production and their outputs and displacemnt. You do the math.

    3T-GTEU,DOHC 2Valve.
    Produced between 85-88, this 1.8 ltr engine was the forcefed couterpart of the 3T-GE, producing a healthy 160@6000rpm and 152@4800lb-ft of Torque.

    4A-GELU DOHC - 1.6
    The lean burn 4A-GE 16V used for rear wheel drive corollas although was avaliable in latter FWD models as well. Produced from 82 onwards till 1992. Produced a healthey 138@7200 and 109lb-ft@4800.

    4A-GZE, DOHC 16V.
    Produced from 91-95 and fitted on the AE92 Levins
    Hp: 170@6400
    Torque: 152@4400

    2ZZ-GE DOHC+VVTL-i 1.8
    Hp:192@7800
    Torque: 133@6800

    3S-GE DOHC+DualVVT-i (Blacktop)Hp:210@7600
    Torque: 159@6400

    2UZ-FE DOHC.32V 90deg V8. 4.3Ltr
    Hp: 300@5600
    Torque: 325lb-ft @ 3600

    The 2JZ-GTE, 3.0 24V, without VVT
    hp: 320@5800
    Torque: 315lb-ft@4000
    |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| C2G - GARAGE | SHOP | TUNE +92 346 8776643 |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

  11. #30
    Senior PakWheeler Follow
    levin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Select City
    Age
    51
    Posts
    23,112
    Follows
    5
    Following
    0
    Mentioned
    95 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)
    Problems Posted
    0
    Problems Solved
    0
    Best Answers
    0
    Good Answers
    0

    Default

    companies produce stock engines keeping in mind lots of factors, if yr as a (individual) is not satisfied with stock performance you can start building yr own engine, and there is no end to it!. it all depends on yr budjet. well if you screw up yr engine you can start building another one,,,,but,, there is somebody more important in that car than the engine, that is YOU. i dont think you can rebuilt yrself in case something happens to you along the way,,,so yr better off by not going to extermes, trying to proof to yrself which is best!. those companies target is to make money and they are doing that.
    ,,, unless you know the track, you're not good enough to sit behind the wheel." K T

  12. #31
    PakWheeler Follow
    MotownMadman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Detroit
    Age
    54
    Posts
    523
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Problems Posted
    0
    Problems Solved
    0
    Best Answers
    0
    Good Answers
    0

    Default

    @salmanf1
    The reason Ford is not doing the euro focus in the US is because the focus is a money loser in the US. In general, Americans who want a small car look to Honda, Toyota, Nissan, or now more than ever, Hyundai. The Japs and Koreans are eating the American's lunch in this segment. Their share of the American Pie is growing at the cost of teh American OEMs, not each other...really sad for the local economy where I live in Michigan, but the Americans ttok their eye off the ball.

    The Ford 500 is the erstwhile replacement for the Taurus, which was flailing for the last several years. But the 500 is intended to be a "family" car...far from anything that looks like performance. It is boring looking on the outside (spelled "plain vanilla"), but nice interior. It is underpowered and can't handle at all, but it has a smooth ride in a grandfatherly sort of way.

    The Fusion is based on the Mazda 6 platform and has nothing in common with the 500. As I'm sure you know, Ford owns Mazda. The engine is the terrific Mazda engine which has good power, but even if made to fit in the 500 would be a mismatch as the torque is too low and peak occurs at too high an rpm for the sumo like overweight 500. Also, Ford is milking Mazda in many ways nowadays and the Lincoln Zephyr is also a sister to the Fusion. Hope this helps!

    Ciao!

  13. #32
    PakWheeler Follow
    atif11's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Islamabad
    Age
    28
    Posts
    781
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Problems Posted
    0
    Problems Solved
    0
    Best Answers
    0
    Good Answers
    0

    Default

    MotownMadman

    plz check ur pm inbox
    Dream is not what you see while you sleep , it is what that don't let u sleep .

  14. #33
    Senior PakWheeler Follow
    mubeenshahid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Sargodha
    Age
    25
    Posts
    8,355
    Follows
    1
    Following
    0
    Mentioned
    31 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Problems Posted
    0
    Problems Solved
    0
    Best Answers
    0
    Good Answers
    0

    Default

    hows this 5 year old thread wakes
    Aunda Fan

  15. #34
    Site Banned Follow
    Zeejigs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Rawalpindi
    Age
    30
    Posts
    3,121
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Problems Posted
    0
    Problems Solved
    0
    Best Answers
    0
    Good Answers
    0

    Default

    Dig

  16. #35
    Senior PakWheeler Follow
    daniyalahmad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Select City
    Posts
    8,435
    Follows
    1
    Following
    0
    Mentioned
    12 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Problems Posted
    0
    Problems Solved
    0
    Best Answers
    0
    Good Answers
    0

    Default

    ^ Aisa waisa
    BTW This thread contains some usefull information.
    One of the most difficult things in the world is to know how to do something, and to watch without comment, somebody else do it incorrectly.

  17. #36
    Site Banned Follow
    Ashfaq87's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Lahore
    Age
    29
    Posts
    756
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Problems Posted
    0
    Problems Solved
    0
    Best Answers
    0
    Good Answers
    0

    Default

    what a dig!!!

  18. #37
    PakWheeler Follow
    Temojin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Muridkay
    Age
    37
    Posts
    574
    Follows
    1
    Following
    0
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Problems Posted
    0
    Problems Solved
    0
    Best Answers
    0
    Good Answers
    0

    Default

    I think Honda has more things to do like building jet engines for aircrafts, actually jet aircrafts, fuel cell vehicles that are actually practical and how about Asimo so its not if they could make better engines or not, if they wanted they could surely do it.

    And does honda really not have a racetrack credential to itself?

  19. #38
    Senior PakWheeler Follow
    ahmadbila's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Dubai
    Age
    26
    Posts
    12,963
    Follows
    5
    Following
    1
    Mentioned
    95 Post(s)
    Tagged
    11 Thread(s)
    Problems Posted
    0
    Problems Solved
    0
    Best Answers
    0
    Good Answers
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MotownMadman View Post
    Ohhh Bhailog, c'mon, now...What about the Acura NSX and the Honda S2000...250 hp out of a naturally asprirated 2.0 liter engine at 8000 rpm!!! Toyota doesn't even come close to a production engine that has done that.

    In America, where I live the two cjhallengers for best selling car in America are the Toyota Camry and the Honda Accord. Both sell around 240,000 units per year each. But if you drive them, the Camry has a softer ride, quieter, and better mileage than the Accord. But the Accord has more power, corners better, is faster, brakes better, and is MUCH more fun to drive...So I bought one!

    And on the last generation Celica, Toyota's so-called "sports car" which is in fact merely a "sporty" car, they made a concious decision to have smooth driveability at the cost of about 35 hp at the top end. They called it a "style consious sporty car" for the USA market. The car failed miserably.

    Also, Soichiro Honda, the founder, had a very strong Formula 1 team since the 1960's and REQUIRED EVERY Road Car Chief Engineer go through that program. In fact two of Honda's Presidents were Chief Engineers of the F1 Program. There is real performance/"Racing improves the breed" culture in Honda from the top down. Toyota started as a sewing machine company, became a conglomerate driven by what sells for high profits. Remember, performance is not where the most profit is.

    Toyota is indeed the highest selling car company in the world, but remember, they are out for sales volume and making money as the prime motive. Biggest doesn't mean best. And to the brother who claims to have driven Ferrari's, etc. You can't compare the performance of a Ferrari or Porsche to any Toyota. Toyota is for the mass market, toyota makes a higher quality car, but we are talking about performance here. If you wanna talk about the Supra, remember, Toyota needed twin turbos to get 70% of the performance of Ferrari who had naturally aspirated power.

    Honda is more focused on performance (read: mileage AND hp!) and although they make high mileage cars and high performance cars they invest more in this technology than Toyota per unit vehicle sold...this is a fact.

    Lastly, When Toyota entered the USA racing scene in a very important (to American racing fans) CART Racing League which includes the Indy 500, they HIRED Ilmore Engineering (competitor to Cosworth) to design and manufacture their racing engine.

    Honda just pulled in their resident engineers and kicked Toyota's, Nissan's, Ford's, and Chev'y asses! Also, when Ferrari needed top notch performance engineering talent for their F1 engine program in 1999, they lured and hired none other than Honda's Chief Engineer.

    Now Toyota has ALOT more money than all the other carmakers in the world, including Honda, and will have more performance products as the business case makes more sense, but make no mistake, the facts and the history of the two companies speak for themselves...I don't need to.

    Allah Hafiz
    Excellent!!! u said it all....
    When the power of love exceeds the love for power, the world will finally know peace=Every man is guilty of all the good he didn't do

  20. #39
    Senior PakWheeler Follow
    ahmadbila's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Dubai
    Age
    26
    Posts
    12,963
    Follows
    5
    Following
    1
    Mentioned
    95 Post(s)
    Tagged
    11 Thread(s)
    Problems Posted
    0
    Problems Solved
    0
    Best Answers
    0
    Good Answers
    0

    Default

    oh,its 5yr old thread
    When the power of love exceeds the love for power, the world will finally know peace=Every man is guilty of all the good he didn't do

  21. #40
    Senior PakWheeler Follow
    airomerix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Lahore
    Age
    26
    Posts
    4,373
    Follows
    1
    Following
    0
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Problems Posted
    0
    Problems Solved
    0
    Best Answers
    0
    Good Answers
    0

    Default

    250hp out of 2.0 litre!!! WOW! Now thats a marvel of engineering
    R18 boyz!.....Powered by Honda

+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

User Tag List

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •