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    Default - Formula 1 - Season 2009 -



    F1 2009 SEASON IS OVER AND HENCE THREAD CLOSED!










    FOR F1 SEASON 2010 , PLEASE VISIT THE FOLLOWING THREAD:










    https://www.pakwheels.com/forumreply_az_TopicID!125307~ForumID!28~pw.html






    F1 FANS!!!! Welcome to the 2009 Season thread! - Formula 1 - Season 2009 - -565676
    - Formula 1 - Season 2009 - -565677
    - Formula 1 - Season 2009 - -565678
    Previous Seasons of Formula 1 Formula 1 - Season 2008 Formula 1 - Season 2007 Formula 1 - Season 2006 Some Formula 1 related websites Formula 1.com Itv-F1.com Espnstar.com F1-Live.com F1db.com Planetf1.com Autosport.com newsonf1.com
    Enjoy Posting!
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Honda City 1999 1.5L NEO MT | Honda City 2009 1.3L AT

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    The mythical name will make a return to F1, after 15 years. No details which engines they might be running next year, might be Cosworth or Toyota, but going by Toyota`s speed at Monza, not many teams will be looking to get the engines.


    There might be another entry, a new team, if as expected Renault are found guilty of race fixing. Everything points towards them being guilty although there is no proof to convict them. FIA has now offered Pat Symonds immunity much like Piquet Junior, and it's thought that he is being encouraged to put the blame entirely at Flavio Briatore`s door who might step down before the weekend. How exactly all this will affect Renault remains to be seen and it will have a big effect on the drivers market. Raikkonen was thought to be in contention for the Renault seat in a straight swap with Alonso, and Kubica was linked to the team too. Depends on how damning the judgment is.
    Come back, Luca Badoer, all is forgiven.

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    Mercedes: No plans to end McLaren deal



    Mercedes-Benz has no plans to end its relationship with the McLaren Formula 1 team because of its planned buy-out of Brawn GP, but the German car manufacturer has said that its partnership with the Woking-based outfit will change.


    @UK


    If all the rumours are true then Why Flavio in the first place let all this happens last year what he was thinking that no one will find out about that. After spending nearly 20 years in the sports he still thinks things like these will hide forever is he nuts or plain stupid. Now it is highly likely that he will be fired by the Renault management and most likely Alain Prost will be named as a new team Boss if Renault opt to stay in F1 for next season.
    M Saad Umar-



    "Fear is part of people's life. Some of them don't know how to face it, others — where I include myself — learn coexisting with it or face it, not as a negative thing, but like a autoprotection sensation."

    -- Ayrton Senna

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    Williams confident its slump is over



    Williams believes a return to high downforce circuits and a host of developments will bring it back into top six contention after its Spa and Monza slump.



    Ferrari: F1 must halt attendance slide



    Luca di Montezemolo believes FOTA's planned seminar at the end of this season must result in changes that make Formula 1 more appealing to spectators.




    Breaking News





    Briatore and Symonds leave Renault



    Renault has announced that team boss Flavio Briatore and engineering chief Pat Symonds have parted company with the team and that it will "not dispute" the allegations of race-fixing when it appears before the World Motor Sport Council next week.


    Sir Stirling: Lotus return 'good news'


    Sir Stirling Moss has welcomed the return of Lotus to Formula One and remarked: "I hope they are built a bit stronger than when I drove them."


    Full transcript of Renault radio transmissions


    A leaked transcript of the conversations involving Flavio Briatore, Pat Symonds, Nelson Piquet Jr, Fernando Alonso and engineers during last year's Singapore Grand Prix as published in the Daily Mail.
    M Saad Umar-



    "Fear is part of people's life. Some of them don't know how to face it, others — where I include myself — learn coexisting with it or face it, not as a negative thing, but like a autoprotection sensation."

    -- Ayrton Senna

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    Farewell Flav, you cheating lying *******! Even if you didn't do much this time. If you can do this for ONE race win, wonder what you might do for a championship when you have not won any, umm remember 1994? Pat Symonds is a man i feel bad for, hugely respected up and down the pitlane, the man who worked with Ayrton Senna, Michael Schumacher and Fernando Alonso. He was offered immunity but he chose not to take it. Mosley has got his man, Britore, just like he got Ron Dennis. The only one left of the old guard is Sir Frank Williams, and he is above all this crap.


    Renault is now safe. They hearing is pretty useless as Renault is not even contesting anymore. There might be a small fine but nothing close to what was handed out to Mclaren, and nor the threat of exclusion from the championship. The conspiracy was hatched between three men, one got the immunity offered by FIA, the other two have quit. No proof anyone else was involved or had a clue. FIA must make sure these three are not seen anywhere near motor racing again even though Piquet Jr, living with a fifty year old man has immunity, no one would hire him in F1 at least.


    @genius83


    Bro, Junior is the son of a ******. All we know is that Flavio and Symonds have stepped down. For all we know they might have done that to save Renault. With those two gone, there is no case against Renault. There never was a case against Renault to be honest except for Pat Symonds` admission that a conversation did take place with Piquet Jr about something like this and that it was Junior's idea to crash. Had Symonds not confessed to that, there would have been nothing. Just the word of a driver who has been fired by his team for lack of performance against his team boss and a highly respected engineer. Who would believe Piquet Jr? There was only the telemetry showing he pressed the throttle pedal more. Now looking at how Piquet Jr drove in F1, one could argue he was capable of pressing the throttle pedal or do anything.


    If we assume Flav is guilty then we must look at his career. His has been a controversial career. The tainted 1994 world title is still alive in memories of all who witnessed it. So you can say he did it before and got away with it, and thought he can do it again and get away with it.
    Come back, Luca Badoer, all is forgiven.

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    Lauda: FIA must punish Renault heavily



    Former world champion Niki Lauda has said that the FIA must still punish Renault hard for its involvement in fixing last year's Singapore Grand Prix if Formula 1 is to restore its credibility.



    Teams set to discuss engine equalisation



    Formula 1 teams are set to discuss the possibility of allowing a re-equalisation of engines for next season in order to have a more level playing field.



    Briatore: I quit to save Renault



    Flavio Briatore says he left the Renault team in order to save the French squad, ahead of the decisive FIA meeting to face allegations of race-fixing.



    Renault chief: Briatore felt responsible



    Renault chief operating officer Patrick Pelata says someone needed to pay for the French squad's actions at the 2008 Singapore Grand Prix.



    Analysis: How Renault case came to light



    When news first broke at the Belgian Grand Prix that the FIA was conducting an investigation into the events at the 2008 Singapore Grand Prix, the initial suspicion was that this was a case of a disgruntled former employee going out for revenge.
    M Saad Umar-



    "Fear is part of people's life. Some of them don't know how to face it, others — where I include myself — learn coexisting with it or face it, not as a negative thing, but like a autoprotection sensation."

    -- Ayrton Senna

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    Lauda should Fuc* off. Punish Renault for what? If there is no evidence that they or any other member of the team was involved in fixing the race at any stage, why should FIA punish them, unless Lauda wants Renault to quit F1 for no reason because that is what they will do if punished for a crime they did not commit. Lauda should have come out with comments like these when a certain team with a certain driver was ramming people off the track to win world titles, when FIA found them guilty, but Lauda kept his trap shut because he is an Austrian and that's the closest thing you can get to a German? He should concentrate of his airline business unless he has sold that. He wants to put a few hundred people out of job for a crime they had no clue about let alone participate in it. And how come the Piquets should be allowed to walk away from it all. Whether it was Junior's idea off not he took part in it, never told anyone unless he lost his drive. Nikki Lauda should apply the same rule to them.
    Come back, Luca Badoer, all is forgiven.

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    Why do you hate Schumacher so much?
    I bet he doesnt even knows you exist.

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    if singapore 2008 results are disqualified and drivers points are re calculated, hami looses 6 points, and massa effectively becomes the 2008 champion
    Alpha Romeo 156

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    Why two people from Renault cheat for one race victory when they are not fighting any title. Silly decision and why terminate Nelson piquet contract when they cheat with him. Reading article on itv-f1 Renault is involved in too much motor sport like GP2 with Bernie ecclestone. A company involved in so much motor racing want to cheat for one win? Article url is


    http://www.itv-f1.com/Feature.aspx?Type=James_Allen&id=46903


    How is this bigger then spy gate ? in spy gate all material is stolen Mclaren design a car which Ferrari design and win races also i remember 1994 and 1997 hitting other driver on track is putting life of other in danger aswell why that is not called dangerous when FIA say Michael schumacher cheated and take all points from him in 1997 and take his second place in the championship also away. Bernie ecclestone will arrange back door settlement again no investigation will be made.

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    RedBul_ar, Bernie ecclestone have said result will remain. No change

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    nice!!
    Four wheels move the body, Two wheels move the soul.

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    Kubica to decide on future 'very soon'



    Robert Kubica expects to make a decision about his plans for next year imminently - with the Pole admitting that what happens to Renault at next week's FIA hearing is a factor in what he does.


    @UK


    Just to give you an amazing link of discussion started back in 2008 just after the Singapore GP the topic starter have accused Team Renault of ordering Piquet to crash delibrately just after the Alonso's fuel stop at that time other members make fun of him but the time proves that he had judged it perfectly.


    Fishy Paella


    Also, I was referring in my previous post about Nelson's suggestion of delibrate crashing that he gave to Pat Symonds and certainly Symonds had told about the suggestion to Flavio, now if Flavio have rejected the suggestion then after the race he should come in front and fire Piquet immediately and should reveal the Piquet's Plan so that in future Piquet should not be able to blackmail him like the way it happened but Flavio instead choose to remain quite and the result of his quiteness is he is no more part of Renault and also been accused of Race Fixing too. Although I have high doubts that Piquet was smart enough to make such a successful plan on its own on a track which was holding any kind of race first time, just how many laps he has done during the practice sessions and qualifying on that track.


    @Shehryaar


    Michal only lost his second place from the season not the points he gains. Why this scandal is bigger then Spy-Gate the reason is simple in Spy-Gate only 2 teams are involved where McLaren deisgn a car that was based on Ferrari's data which means on the track there are 4 cars with almost the same characteristics with different engines powering them and even the results of 2007 shows no difference between those 4 cars out of 17 races Ferrari have 9(Kimi 6, Massa 3) and McLaren8(Lewis 4, Alonso 4). While in this scandal team Renault is accused of ruinning the full grid pit strategy making it possible to change the out come of the race. Whatever happens after the first safety car was the proof of Chaos theory and nothing more.
    M Saad Umar-



    "Fear is part of people's life. Some of them don't know how to face it, others — where I include myself — learn coexisting with it or face it, not as a negative thing, but like a autoprotection sensation."

    -- Ayrton Senna

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    Lotus boss plans to step down soon



    Lotus team principal Tony Fernandes has no intention of remaining in his role for the long term, after revealing that he will stand down shortly after the 2010 season begins.



    BMW duo facing tough engine situation



    Nick Heidfeld and Robert Kubica have been told they are now likely to face an engine change penalty in the closing stages of the season, after their BMW Sauber team discovered their broken power-units from Monza cannot be used again.



    Singapore: Renault row won't affect GP



    Singapore officials admit that they are more worried by the smog haze that is covering the city affecting next week's grand prix than any fallout from the Renault race-fix case.



    South Korea still pushing for 2010 race



    South Korea's hopes of holding its first Formula 1 race next year have received a big boost with the government this week passing legislation to approve funding for the race.



    McLaren set to run last upgrade



    The McLaren team will introduce its last major upgrade at this weekend's Singapore Grand Prix before it shifts its focus to the 2010 car.



    Piquet Sr. informed FIA last year



    Nelson Piquet Sr. has revealed that he first informed the FIA about the Singapore Grand Prix race fix claims at last year's race in Brazil - but no action could be taken until his son made an official statement about the matter.
    M Saad Umar-



    "Fear is part of people's life. Some of them don't know how to face it, others — where I include myself — learn coexisting with it or face it, not as a negative thing, but like a autoprotection sensation."

    -- Ayrton Senna

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    I just read about the Renault case; They just made a hollywood blockbuster!!

    But its from the last year @ Singapore..why arent they punished since everything's clear now?
    Nothing to see here.

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    It's getting more complicated as the hearing nears. What is one to believe, Flavio Britore, Pat Symonds or the Piquets. Now the father says he informed FIA last year. It is probably a mere coincidence that the man he informed, Charlie Whiting, happened to be a mechanic at Brabham and the owner of the team was Bernie Ecclestone If they were indeed informed at that time, why did they wait so long, and for Junior to make a statement to the FIA after he lost his drive does not make him a saint. The father was known as one of the most intelligent men in his driving days, so he can be counted on to manipulate the situation pretty much to his son's advantage. He is not Anthony Hamilton. The other interesting that i find is, Bernie or Mosley saying " It's too late" what ever the outcome the result would stand! why? Why should the result stand if a team has cheated. Renault should be stripped of the points they got in Singapore, and much like i had said all through the spy-gate saga that if Mclaren had all their points taken, then both Mclaren drivers should have been stripped of their points too. How can a car which is deemed to be illegal have all it's points taken but the points scored by the men driving an illegal car be deemed to be legal

    The thing is, much like the saying in showbiz, no publicity is bad publicity, and that is what Bernie and Mosley have turned F1 into. Much like the DD diffuser issue this year. Teams raised objections over Toyota and Williams` DD diffusers when they first ran in testing, but it was allowed to drag on well into the season. Charlie Whiting has been at the center of many controversies. It's time he should be shown the door too and that is why I am against the candidacy of Jean Todt. He will be a continuation in many ways of Mosley and represents all things ugly of the past 10-15 years.


    @genius83


    I agree, doubt Piquet Junior is smart enough to come up with all the conspiracy. Doubt he came up with even a part of it. I mean he had nothing to gain. It looks more and more like it was Pat Symonds, sadly who came up with the idea and with his position being such within the Renault team, he was able to go through with it. I am sure the only worry he must have had at that time would be, whether Junior was capable of even crashing properly to bring out the safety car. What i find missing in the transcript is Piquet's claim that he kept asking about which lap he was on. That is what he says in his statement, that he asked repeatedly about which lap he was on to make sure he crashed on lap 14 or 15. The reaction of Britore after the crash is interesting too. Flavio Britore does not have a great reputation, he is very good at eyeing up talent and man management but his past will always be brought up if any cheating allegations come up. In legal terms we call them " habitual " Just like it was discussed at the time in the link you have posted. People don't forget.Plus how did Renault anticipate another safety car period which whipped out all of Alonso's lead and how did they know Ferrari would do what they did with the fuel rig. Without that and with the second safety car, Massa would have won the race i think, so superior was his car there. Besides you must have seen a lot of discussion about article 6 these days on TV. Well, article 6 has a couple of sub-clause too, and those asking for it to be implemented, ahh well l won't say anything about their past, but the sub-clause talk about aiding and abetting, and that is what should be applied to Charlie Whiting, the Piquet Sr and Jr and who ever else was informed.


    @Shehryaar


    You and i are on the same page more or less but lets just try and avoid what is very well documented as this is about a totally different matter. I agree completely, how can driving into someone at high speed not be dangerous and not considered risking the life of someone else but that is an argument for another day.


    @ToofaneBatameezi


    Because this is the FIA, the enjoy prolonging the circus. Like the Diffuser issue earlier this season. Seems they knew about the Singapore incident in November of last year but did not feel the need to investigate it themselves unless someone, i.e. Nelson Piquet Junior came to them and make a sworn statement. What the FIA is saying is, that we knew something might have happened and we had the authority to investigate it too, but we did not feel the need to investigate something as big as race-fixing unless someone came out and admitted they were involved. If that makes sense
    Come back, Luca Badoer, all is forgiven.

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    genius83, i ask this is running with same car design cheated from Ferrari and winning races is less important? winning driver or constructor title give team so much money. In spy gate Mclaren fail to win driver title by 1 point how that is fair when they cheat all the grid for one full season and also beat Ferrari with Ferrari design. Singapore is so much bad also but it is one race it is not all season like 2007. In 1997 FIA say yes Michael schumacher hit Williams car on the intention of damaging it and strip him of his place in championship FIA admit he put one other driver in danger and he also do the same work in 1994. He run Frentzen off track in Canada at 190 mph and Frentzen say later Schumacher done identical move on him when they are team mates in Mercedes benz junior team. Cheating is cheating all of them are bad. Renault cheated then ban Renault but i am thinking Renault team case is not so much bigger then other cases.


    Unclekracker, yes but why not say so? Flavio britore and all team with him in Benetton always cheating so many disqualification in 1994 1995 then cheating and rule changing to suit them in Ferrari why no one talk about that? that also damage for formula one racing when champion is a cheat.

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    @UK


    That is the same thinking I have about Spy-Gate that both drivers should be disqualified for driving an illegal car but the real question is drivers will only disqualified if the car have breach a technical regulations like Benetton's B194 or some other incidents in the past. In Spy-Gate scandal driver's have drive a car which was design within the limits of that season's technical regulations so they are not illegal w.r.t technical regulations. If FIA disqualifies Mclaren drivers they should have to disqualify the Ferrari drivers to because both teams are having the same car with different engines. I still suggest the only sensible solution for the Singapore GP result is to declare that the GP was a non-championship race and all the points taken by each driver in the race are not to be counted in the championship standings but only in their respective careers, because what you are suggesting that take the points from Renault means you still are manipulating the championship result as Hamilton takes 2nd instead of 3rd and Rosberg wins the race while Hamilton becomes the champion with a 3 points lead instead of 1 and the last lap drama of Interlagos lost its charm, plus Alonso was not the only one who benefits from that Safety car session 5 other drivers were also the beneficiary of that here is the proof. Although Rosberg and Kubica have penalties because of going into the pits behind a safety car but still with that penalties Rosberg was able to come second.




    Singapore GP 2008 First Pitstop Summary











    - Formula 1 - Season 2009 - -994773



    Apart from Alonso's Renault, RBR Ferrari of Mark Webber and Daivd Coulthard, Honda's Rubens Barrichello, Williams Nico Rosberg, BMW's Robert Kubica all pitted before the Safety Car and that makes it a strong case of removing the status of GP as a championship event. Just to support my comments about 4 years ago in Pakistan's domestic T20 tournament Sialkot delibrately lost a match against Karachi Zebra's and in the post match ceremony Sialkot's captain Shoaib Malik himself said that yes we lost delibrately just to record our anger against the Umpire's decision in a previous match where they have shown favour to the Lahore Lions. That delibrate defeat of Sialkot make it possible to manipulate the semifinal lineup as with that win Karachi qualified for the semis and Lahore were knockout of the tournament. PCB disqualify the match result altogether and declare Lahore to be qualified for the semis.


    @Shehryaar


    I dont think Adelaide or Jerez incident are that high speed and what about the same things happens even nowadays specially this season. Like Mark Webber's Nurburgring penalty, Vettel's aggressive style of pushing Kubica off the track at Monza or what about Montreal 2007 Jarno Trulli pushing Kubica off the track and Kubica having the most hish speed shunt of recent times Jarno was lucky that Kubica came out of the car with out any serious injury. But I do say that Adelaide and Jerez incidents are not what sportsmen spirit is all about. Also you should read Eddie Irvine's comment about cheating that it is not something new and this kind of win at any cost type attitude is now a rarity back in the old days it was a usual thing.
    M Saad Umar-



    "Fear is part of people's life. Some of them don't know how to face it, others — where I include myself — learn coexisting with it or face it, not as a negative thing, but like a autoprotection sensation."

    -- Ayrton Senna

  19. #1498
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    @genius83


    I agree to some extent with what you are saying, but why should Ferrari be disqualified for 2007? It was their car, their design which was copied. Mclaren was the one that had stolen just about everything. Well, all that is in the past now. As for the teams pitting , the rule change by FIA at the time was plain stupid. What is a team and driver supposed to do if he has to pit and the safety car comes out, drive the car and run out of fuel ? And if he pits, he gets a penalty! Pitting under yellows added yet another dimension to racing. I still don`t agree with the current system where cars travel at a specific speed to get to the pits. It should be simple, cover it with a double waved yellow and if a driver does not slow down significantly around the place of accident compared to his previous lap, then give him a drive through penalty. Keeping the pits closed till everyone lines up behind the safety car and opening the pits so all of them come in will only lead to more accidents in the pits like it happened with Massa in Singapore, where Ferrari were eager to get him out ahead of Hamilton, and the guy on the pitwall over rode the Ferrari lighting system.


    @Shehryaar


    Sorry bro, while i agree with most you say and you are entitled to your opinion and free to express it and those who watched F1 during that period will make a passing comment about `94,`95 because it was pretty much the same team with Flavio Briatore as team boss , Pat Symonds, Brawn, Byrne etc and a lot of things happened during that time, but this is NOT about Michael Schumacher. That can be a discussion for another time. For now it's about Renault, what Symonds did, did Flavio actually know so much or who came up with the idea and what punishment should be given to them. There is a link posted by genius83, a discussion on planetf1. Even there some are making the same connection, Schumacher, Benetton, Briatore but as is rightly pointed out there, this is not about Schumacher and let's not make it about Michael Schumacher. His career and controversies can be discussed at another time.
    Come back, Luca Badoer, all is forgiven.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UncleKracker



    @ToofaneBatameezi


    Because this is the FIA, the enjoy prolonging the circus. Like the Diffuser issue earlier this season. Seems they knew about the Singapore incident in November of last year but did not feel the need to investigate it themselves unless someone, i.e. Nelson Piquet Junior came to them and make a sworn statement. What the FIA is saying is, that we knew something might have happened and we had the authority to investigate it too, but we did not feel the need to investigate something as big as race-fixing unless someone came out and admitted they were involved. If that makes sense



    Thats blasphemy...The crusaders of justice are lazy or corrupt? I wonder!!
    Nothing to see here.

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    ToofaneBatameezi wrote



    Thats blasphemy...The crusaders of justice are lazy or corrupt? I wonder!!







    How adding incompetent to the list of being lazy and corrupt


    Come back, Luca Badoer, all is forgiven.

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