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Thread: What Kind of Car is Best For Pakistan

  1. #1
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    Default What Kind of Car is Best For Pakistan

    I am putting together a consortium of international talent to investigate the ideal cars for the Pakistani People. We are doing market studies, but I value the opinion of many PakWheels contributors. Also, if anyone here feels thay can make "World Class" contributions in a greater capacity, I would love to hear from you. The idea is to assemble a team to design and engineer a family of cars leveraging global internet access to exchange CAD and Engineering data and ideas using Pakistani ex-patriat talent who can not come back to Pakistan...This is real and gaining steam, so please take this seriously and save any jokes for other posts. After all, what better forum to conduct such research.

    Please Describe the following, your reasoning, and comments on regional needs, ie, city vs. mountain use etc. The intent is to look at a complete LINE of vehicles from a 4 door family sedan, 2 door sports coupe, minivan and pickup. What would sell and why for each segment; What should be the price/performance balance:

    1. Length
    2. Wheelbase
    3. Width
    4. Engine displacement and power (please be realistic)
    5. Weight
    6. Option range (A/C standard or optional? CD, Airbags, Seatbelts, Power windows...you get the idea.
    7. Price (without tax)
    8. Projected sales volume in cars/year

    Thank you very much!


  2. #21
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    as i said in my early post, "The shape MUST be cool and attractive...should not have round headlamps and shoe shaped body(i hope u know what im talking about)..."

  3. #22
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    Bhailog...Thank you so much for your comments so far...I look forward to many, many more, they're excellent! Please spread the word to all you know to join PakWheels and contribute to this. This would be your contribution to the Pakistani Auto Industy and its future.

    Now for some feedback from me:

    High style/value/performance targets are the CORE of this project. Not the cheapest car to buy, but "Value for money". That is: "Great car at a good price", not "Good car at the lowest price". But low overall cost of operation is also a consideration as is the "Fun to Drive" quotient...and VERY durable.

    The intent is a DESIREABLE car with style and panache, not just a rolling appliance...@hunchback5...I really do know EXACTLY what you mean...It won't look like a shoe, but it will kick ***!

    Revo has addressed a need and is fulfilling it, but we are seeking much more. We will introduce state of the art technology which works for the low sales volumes in this market, but not in really high mass production. It is called "Mass Customization". This is why we can share this information openly. There are international patents on this technology which, even if other companies in Pakistan knew our designs, they could't pull it off in thrice the time and cost it would take us.

    Now for some specifics...

    Choices would be 2dr/4dr hatchback, 4dr sedan, 2dr sports coupe, minivan, pickup. Petrol DOHC EFI engine at 1000cc with turbo option for high performance and fully electronically controlled CNG option with autochangeover (no manual changeover) for economy models. Power would be 65 hp base engine and 90 hp for turbo. Manual 5 speed tranny only.

    Safety on many fronts: Standard will be: Seatbelts, front airbags, side impact beams, antilock brakes. Good Engineering allows strong design AND light weight...Thise cars are intended to meet USA/Euro Crash Safety and weigh 1350 lbs (2dr Hatchback)...You will see how revolutionary technology makes this possible...0-100kph in 9 sec. and 50mpg on base model and 7 seconds and 36 mpg on turbo. I may sound crazy, but I have been planning this for the last twenty years since I have been in the US Auto Industry.

    Function: Ability to deal with rough roads with high ground clearance, large wheels/tires (15") highly damped shock absorbers. Power windows and door locks standard.

    A comprehensive factory backed speedshop and customization center would be part of the plan for you guys.

    @datzburier...I respect you my brother, but humbly beg to differ on HP..."Optimum" hp is a relative term, and torque is also important. Optimum to me is 200 hp...lol. So, with the world's best engine technology bought and licensed, high hp is possible with excellent fuel efficiency as long as we take advantage of economies of scale for new, but "off-the-shelf" components such as fuel injectors, ECU, etc.

    I want to design and build the best car for Pakistan. The reality is that "WE DO NOT HAVE THE CAPABILITY IN THE COUNTRY TO DO THIS YET!" Please do not take offense to this, but use it as a war cry to get there. Right now, the once mighty America is getting dropped to its knees in pain by the "lowly" Koreans. Think about it....

    Pakistanis have the most creative minds in the world. It's in our genes, period. But until we have some traction and gain the skills and technology, thinking we can be "the best" is just a fantasy and a fallacy. But with an International team of Pakistani Ex-Pats, we can do this. I have done similar projects before with Pakistani involvement to great success.

    Did you know that the current production Jaguar X-Type steering wheel/airbag system and cooling system was completely designed and engineered in Karachi by Pakistani Engineers? We made that happen by training him and succeeding...We have to invest of ourselves and have aggressive but realistic goals and objectives to elevate Pakistan.

    We have commisioned several concepts for this vehicle line and I will post early renderings as they become available. Your comments will be listened to and seriously considered for incorporation into the design.

    Those in the software industry can think of this as an "Open Source" movement for car design in Pakistan. Open Source is the idea of many people contributing and collaborating on a software code for free merely for the betterment of Society...It's what allowed Netscape to exist, and pissed off Microsoft.

    @abhatti...You asked how we will do this over the internet? We are doing this right now, with your input by the way! Thank you PakWheels for making this possible.

    Stay tuned, and please keep it coming.

    Allah Hafiz

  4. #23
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    Good to see your comment motown Bhai.

    As we all know there only three types of people in this world.

    1) Those who make things happen
    2) Those who watch things happen
    3) Those who don't know what happened

    Motown brother, you are definately in 1st category. We all should strive for this goal of making a good quality car at a reasonable price and best quality. And if its a winner product, people will pay the right price, and as is the case in Pakistan now, will even pay 1 to 2 lakh premium as well.

    A request to Jagdesh and Hanif bhai to put this topic in Sticky category as well. This project of is well underway and needs as much exposure as possible. Thank You.
    Permanent positive change (in your life, or the society) with proper planning occurs slowly. While without planning any change becomes a disaster rather quickly. Said by Whocares...

    I got Turbo fingers... Anyone wants to race me in typing....

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    @MotownMadman!!!
    hey bro!
    whichever car you'd produce, do ask me for the TEST DRIVE. just kidding.
    well would try to contribute to your post soon INSHALLAH.
    Best wishes for your project. May you succeed.
    Regards,
    ALLAH HAFIZ.
    Corvette Rocks!!!
    "Our coerced silence is the weapon that has been sharpened and brought to our throats" - Mohsin Hamid

  6. #25
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    @motown Madman: Would you consider a car design with RWD because:

    1- Its more reliable and can be used on rough roads, Like interior cities where some times bad road conditions.

    2- It requires less maintainence
    3- Can serve upto 10 years without any trouble
    4- We have examples of 70's& 80" corolla's & Datsun which are still on the road and those living in NWPF, Balochistan prefer them due to their reliability.

    Its just a suggestion, rest you know better.

    Thanx
    www.projector-point.com

  7. #26
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    "WE DO NOT HAVE THE CAPABILITY IN THE COUNTRY TO DO THIS YET!"

    Don't just assume that there is no techonology development going on in Pakistan. In some sectors, it's probably beyond your imagination. No kidding!!!!

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    @MotownMadman

    the way u post and ask, u remind me of entwicklung!! what a coincedence.....!!!

    r u ?????!!!!!


    What Kind of Car is Best For Pakistan -623397
    This Space Intentionally Left Blank.

  9. #28
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    There is definitely something fishy. Are you..........? or r u a part of that group he mentioned who want to make a car for Paklistani Market.
    Keep a cool head and wear seatbelts!

  10. #29
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    Entwicklung came on this forum two to three months back, if I remember correctly, and I think he was representing a team of Engineers based in Europe, either in UK or Germmany, and was talking about certain budget he has in (XYZ Million Euros) to design a car for Pakistan, based on European model.

    Motown Bhai is a High Level Executive/Senior Engineer from US with atleast 20 years Car design/Engineering process Experience, I appologize Motown Bhai if I am wrong on this one.

    So, I don't think Entwicklung and Motown Bhai are the same person. So, the good news is that now we have professional level enterprising engineers of Pakistani descent who are seriously interested in developing a Car of International Quality in Pakistan for Pakistanis and are sincerely asking for our input. We all need to give as much Positive input as our knowledge and experience permits, and possibly, if we have right talents, actually actively participate in this Quality Car for Pakistan Project. Insha-Allah we can do it. As the saying goes; The whole is greater than sum of its parts. So, individually, we might be a high achieving persons here and there, but we need to put our efforts together and work as a team, to make this dream(International Level Good Quality Range of Cars with Reason prices) a reality.

    What do think brothers, what should be Specifications of the car, as asked by Motown Bhai.
    Permanent positive change (in your life, or the society) with proper planning occurs slowly. While without planning any change becomes a disaster rather quickly. Said by Whocares...

    I got Turbo fingers... Anyone wants to race me in typing....

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    One of thing, Entwicklung was interested in SMART forfour, and asked our opinion how would a car resembling Smart ForFour will be received in Pakistan.

    Here is the picture of forfour.

    Front

    What Kind of Car is Best For Pakistan -623408


    Back

    What Kind of Car is Best For Pakistan -623409


    Interior

    What Kind of Car is Best For Pakistan -623410
    Permanent positive change (in your life, or the society) with proper planning occurs slowly. While without planning any change becomes a disaster rather quickly. Said by Whocares...

    I got Turbo fingers... Anyone wants to race me in typing....

  12. #31
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    Ignore the typos, its too early in the morning to correct silly typos.
    Permanent positive change (in your life, or the society) with proper planning occurs slowly. While without planning any change becomes a disaster rather quickly. Said by Whocares...

    I got Turbo fingers... Anyone wants to race me in typing....

  13. #32
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    But what happened to entlickwung and his project? Are you reading this, entlickwung? Let's see whose project materializes first!
    Evolution interrupted.

  14. #33
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    Motown bhai sahab, I revisited the "Who's who on pakwheels.com?" topic to know more about you, but didn't find your profile there. I would still like to know more about you.
    Evolution interrupted.

  15. #34
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    Motown madman
    I like to know your profile b/c the way you are talking I am not getting it at all, as I said I work for a very reputable global automotive company and we make parts for al major auto makers and now there is new model change coming for a certain make and we are already making parts for this make but as I said its a model change for 2007 so the mass production is still 9 months away but we have started our APQP and kick off meetings now and we just making seats for this project and we will be having around ten or 50 meetings consisiting of manufacturing quality and design experts and you definately know if you are a car designer it is not a job of single designer you need designer who works on body components, electrial system, engine and transmission mouldings plastics fasteners and blah blah. and they are all experts in their respective fields same is for quality and manufacturing experts.
    we do all these meetigs via video conferencing some times but quite often yu have to meeet people face to face. so my friend i am not getting you at all, so far on tis forum I haven't seen any mature topic. IF you say you have team back in pakistan who are working on such project I can believe you but sitiing in EU or NA in beside your regular jobs specially in auotmotive indutry which is considered very fast paced and where changes occur in matter of hours I can't digest it, but good luck any way.

  16. #35
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    Well, I didn't know I had a ghost past. I have never even heard of this entlickwung before, and no I am not him. And a Smart Car as design would be an abject failure for the Pakistani market for too many reasons to mention.
    Now, to defend my self a little bit...

    I am a car lover at heart and have been for my entire life. I am nobody special, and do not pretend to be...A brief bio below. This is going to be long, but if I am asking so much of all of you, you have every right to know about me.

    My name is Sheryar Durrani and I was born in Karachi, Pakistan on July 11, 1962. I moved to America (Washington D.C.) on July 31, 1962 when I was just 20 days old. My Mother was the Information Secretary at the Pakistan Embassy in D.C. for the next 35 years, and my Father was an Executive in the World Bank. We were a middle class family always in touch with Pakistan, and definitely not an "ABCD" family. My parents made sure of that. From the age of 7 to 24 I spent EVERY summer in Pakistan.

    I started in Architecture with the hope of moving back to Pakistan to build low cost housing, but changed and did my Mechanical Engineering from the University of Maryland specializing in Auto Engineering subjects with some Combustion Research at MIT. I was the team leader for the Formula SAE student Race Car which won 1st place in America in 1985 and '86. We designed and made the car ourselves...pics to follow.

    When I graduated I went to Ford in Dearborn, Michigan in 1986 til 1990 in the Electronic Controls Division to help design and develop new fuel injection and electronic ignition systems. While there I moved up quickly, but was frustrated with how slow things were so I left and joined American Specialty Cars (ASC). This was a $400 million company that made convertibles for many companies. While there I was Chief Engineer for these convertibles: Lexus SC400, Saab 900, Lincoln Mark VIII, BMW Z3, and Porsche 968. I also was a body engineer and structural, seal, and window mechanisms engineer simultaneously. I learned A LOT and typically worked 80 hours a week and loved every minute!

    But things were not done well enough in that company, so I left and started my own company, Design Engineering Services, Inc. (DES) to bring the best in CAD and CAE to the Industry. My best customers were Ford and ASC when they asked me to lead the development of the convertible part of the Ford Thunderbird, and alhamdulillah we reached a few million dollars in annual sales designing sports cars and convertibles for many global customers.

    The business slowed down and I took on long term contracts at Johnson Controls, Inc. (JCI is a$22 Billion/yr Company) designing and manufacturing seats and Interiors, and currenty am on assignment as Director of Global Engineering at Thetford Corporation In Ann Arbor Michigan to develop new technologies for the Caravan and Marine/Yacht Industry with a global engineering staff of over 80 Engineers and designers in Michigan, Ohio, Amsterdam, Rome, Malaysia and China. In the 11 months that I have been helping here I have 14 patents pending...I have a total of 34 Patents issued or pending to my name so far, with many more to come, InshAllah.

    I am still fully engaged with with DES for INVESTIGATING the feasibility of the car concepts I am proposing and seeking input on.

    Living in America, I felt like an outsider, never quite fitting in, and in Pakistan, although my Urdu is not very good, I felt a real place in my heart...at home...Zaban hai Amriki,likin Dil hai Pakistani. I was always sad for how the Pakistani government and so called "leaders" raped the country and the people and I always wanted to give back to MY country in some way. Although I think the Gov't is greatly improved with Musharraf.

    This is enough for now, if you are still awake, thank you for your time.

    Do know this my brothers: I do not yet know if this is totally feasible or possible. I believe it is and am looking for your input to accelerate movement on this concept. I have spent much of my money and engaged several professionals to determine feasibility.

    Allah Hafiz

  17. #36
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    @abhatti:
    You are spot on my friend. My hope is to enlist as many people like you to contribute and leverage this resource for this cause. In a traditional product design framework 50 meetings is only a start. But that is with a top down organization. This is a "bottom up" structure where decisions are made in hours not weeks or months, and global collaboration will be key with internet and videoconferencing, but much travel will be happening with the core team to visit "centers of expertise" around the world. There will be about 40 core Design Engineers on the project and several others from a sales and marketing aspect. IF feasibility is determined, funds will be raised through venture capital and leveraging global suppliers to supply in Pakistan will be sought.

    My company, DES has had more designs go from design to production tooling with minimal prototyping than any other design group in the Auto Industry. We have the most advanced Rapid Prototype machines at our disposal and many other advantages that others just don't have.

    Thank you for your good wishes, but do you have any suggestions?

    Regards

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    @MowTM!

    I feel sorry if I suspected u for entwicklung or whatever, but he was going the same direction you are having and suddenly he went underground. We don't want to played around and left in the dust for nothing.

    If you like to take a real step ahead then we believe in a face to face encounters. You need help to remove hurdle of beaurucracy, u'll get alot of guyz here (including me) who can help u out on that, if u need engineers, u'll get helluva engineers out here.

    Don't just rely on some kids sitting on a PC and making his own conclusions of the market. You should know that majority of our buyers don't even know about internet usage, let alone spend time on it, if u want to succeed, u need a platform to start with and that should be located in Pakistan, not somewhere else. I hope I'm not discouraging u, instead showing u the right path.

    BTW, something similar or based on Polo will definately fly!
    This Space Intentionally Left Blank.

  19. #38
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    Salarzae Bhai, with all due respect, aap bhi inn he bachoan main shaamil ho na....

    "Don't just rely on some kids sitting on a PC and making his own conclusions of the market."
    Permanent positive change (in your life, or the society) with proper planning occurs slowly. While without planning any change becomes a disaster rather quickly. Said by Whocares...

    I got Turbo fingers... Anyone wants to race me in typing....

  20. #39
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    We people spent a lot of time giving a variety of suggestions to entwicklung. I think it would be helpful if someone could provide the link to that topic for motownmadman to have a look. I am at a loss to find that.
    Evolution interrupted.

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    @datzburier!
    sir i sent you a mail.
    did you receive that?
    if yes then kindly reply.

    @MotownMadman
    did you receive my second e-mail?
    waiting here
    "Our coerced silence is the weapon that has been sharpened and brought to our throats" - Mohsin Hamid

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