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Thread: "The deadly front brake" - Proper braking technique on motorbikes

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    Default "The deadly front brake" - Proper braking technique on motorbikes

    Hi,

    Is it really just a rumour that one should ONLY use the front brake when you're just walking the bike by hand or have speeds of less than 15km/h???

    There seems to be a general fear that if you use the front brake at any speed then you're guaranteed to fall over the handlebar, headfirst and risk either a major concussion or death.

    Knowing how to brake properly is a serious aspect of riding a motorbike which should not at all be neglected when learning to ride your bike. Alot of people have been riding a bike for years and most people are either selftaught or are given very little professional training.

    I'd like for people who know from experience to tell me if this rumour is just stupid or if there's proper truth to this.
    __________________________________________________ _________________________________________________

    Why I ask this is because on certain MCforums, it's said that the frontbrake on a motorcycle provides upto 70% of the braking force, where as the rearbrakes only provide 30-40%

    But then if this applies to only sportsbikes with discbrakes or all kinds of motorcycles is also a questionable factor.

    Motorbike vs Cycles -

    Is it fair to compare a motorbike with a cycle? Are cycles more likely to topple over and have you fall headfirst when using the front brake at high speeds?

    There's a difference in inertia ratio when riding a cycle vs MC. When you brake on a cycle, those brakes are trying to stop a light 20kg frame, whereas your own mass of say 80kg is still "moving forward".

    On a motorbike the intertia ratio is more evened out or more in favour of the mc itself as it can be 80-200kg , depending on it being a 70cc or heavy sportsbike. You also have a lower riding position, giving a few degrees of safety.

    Best braking for shortest braking distance and deacceleration 100 --> 0 km/h

    Going at highspeed and clenching either front or rearbrake would seem stupid because it would result in a wheel lock and continued slide (rear), and front clench (bye bye).

    So I guess if you are gradual in using the front brake and slowly clench it tighter alongside the rear brake it should provide faster braking than just relying on the rear brake itself?

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    the front brakes provide the 70_80% brake force as the rear suspension unloads, you then essentially have no traction at the rear wheel, Do not compare it to bicycles because they lack suspensions.

    If you cannot handle the front brake of a motorcycle dont ride it, it is a vital safety system and most probably the only system that can save you from becoming qeema on the road.

    I have rode bikes of all sorts and almost always wore out the front brakes faster than the rear, The brake stability is not just the brakes - its the entire dynamics and how you hold the handle bars - most Pakistani bikers simply hold the handle bar loosely (like the helmet on their head) - Its a sure killer.

    The front suspension needs to be perfectly setup and damped in order to control the machine under brake load.
    ZRS - Zulfiqar Racing Systems ..... - professionals at work - at crackwheels.com

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    as per my lil experience front brake(disk) would be the real braking system to control the bike at low or top speed, if one can,t control on it then he might be inexperienced. one should face the real world in real way
    ***SPEED+ACCURACY+AGGRESSION=YAMAHA RX115***

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    I hate drum brakes.
    Nothing beats the response time, range of control and raw braking power of disk.

    Sent from my LG-D802 using Tapatalk

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    I only uses front break.if it is properly applied u can save ur life.. Disc breaks are obviously superior to drum breaks.

    Sent from my GT-I9500 using PW Forums mobile app

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xulfiqar View Post
    the front brakes provide the 70_80% brake force as the rear suspension unloads, you then essentially have no traction at the rear wheel, Do not compare it to bicycles because they lack suspensions.

    If you cannot handle the front brake of a motorcycle dont ride it, it is a vital safety system and most probably the only system that can save you from becoming qeema on the road.

    I have rode bikes of all sorts and almost always wore out the front brakes faster than the rear, The brake stability is not just the brakes - its the entire dynamics and how you hold the handle bars - most Pakistani bikers simply hold the handle bar loosely (like the helmet on their head) - Its a sure killer.

    The front suspension needs to be perfectly setup and damped in order to control the machine under brake load.
    Can the suspension on a GS150 be setup properly? At present i feel that the bike dives in wayyy too much under braking

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    I am myself very inexperienced rider - i m riding a unique 100 (with front disc brake) and I feel TONS of difference between this bike and my big B's GS150 (only drum brakes) in terms of BRAKING

    Disc Brake is a BOON - NEMAT hai ye bhai سبحانه و تعالى‎ اللّٰه ki - there is no comparison between drum and disc i can assure you that from my experience

    However, I have two minor accidents, FRONT disc brakes played some role in those. But the real cause of both of those accidents was WRONG USE OF DISC BRAKE. See myself being very inexperienced, my reflexes caused me to turn the handle while braking hard (both rear and front disc brake).

    But you seriously cant turn the handle bar HARD at decent speed (40+) and BRAKE hard front in the same time, cause this will cause the bike to SQUEEZE in itself while change direction too. I feel the SQUEEZE happens because you are completely denying and STOPPING the power which is still coming from the rear tyre (Since rear is a disc brake and its WHERE the power is applied, not easy to stop it specially with drums)

    And then this HARD change in direction (WHILE BRAKING HARD) MULTIPLIES the SQUEEZE all causing the bike to jerk and fall down.

    This happened with me both the times. I was so worried I thought all the local mechanics are right, this disc brake is a KILLER (lol). I then asked Big B whos is actually a much much shareef cautious striaght line no overtaking rider

    He said nothing like that happened to him ever. Even when he had to brake hard at speeds over 90 (He DO play with throttle in low traffic )

    Talking to him made me realize you just cant brake HARD the front and turn HARD in the same time, rather , you have to maneuver the bike (handle the bike by laying hard LEFT or RIGHT) and BRAKE both front and rear and try to avoid the collision (or whatever reason you are BRAKING for) RATHER THAN JUST STOPPING THE BIKE COMPLETELY IN VERY LITTLE TIME)

    so actually its all about handling, the lessons I learned were:

    1.) Brake as early as possible and be ready for BRAKE situations - because even a 70cc accelerates very quick, playing with the throttle can bring BRAKE situation every now and then

    2.) Use BOTH BRAKES simultaneously, when required HARD or even in Normal conditions, using BOTH brakes minimizes the SQUEEZE that occurs in using FRONT disc only

    3.) When using both brakes (IN HARD BRAKING SITUATIONS), try to alternate the front with the disc and mix it (brake front, then rear, then both, brake and release both brakes in their terms, don't just keep BRAKING all the way since that will lead you to screeches and BIKE dis balance from the rear side). If very hard braking required, of course your reflexes wont allow you to alternate as you will press every thing available lol.

    4.) Maneuver the BIKE ( unless in very heavy traffic ot someone overtaking and very near to you) when braking hard rather than keep direction straight towards the collision point. Remember your objective (when braking hard) is to avoid collision (unless your destiny has arrived and you have to park the bike lol) and not to stop
    Currently riding a Unique 100, also riding big b's suzuki gs 150 [too heavy ]
    Which 1 better Honda 125 or Suzuki GS 150 ? Next ride - Suzuki GD110

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    @maqk! Bhai itna lamba essay likh diya, but "Engine braking" k baray main kuch bhi mention nai kiya. Means abhi bohat kuch learn karna baaqi hay
    Riders on the storm ... literally.

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    I was talking to my friend today.... I said I want to change front drum brakes to disk brakes...
    He said: o bhai mare ga kbhi bhi mat lagwana... thora sa bhi pani hua road pe.. to tu to gaya... just dont do this :p

    You are a person, not a chemical so think before you react !!
    People with high ego and unnecessary attitude deserves the standing ovation of the tallest finger..

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    Proper way to use front brake so bike doesnt dive - lean backwards and apply the brake gently

    Sent from my LG-F160K using PW Forums mobile app

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    yes i started by clarifying my inexperience which is a true

    jo feel kiaa wo likh diaa praa mereyaa nothing out of the auto mobile engineering text books

    feel free to correct no issues andno offence
    Quote Originally Posted by abobobilly View Post
    @maqk! Bhai itna lamba essay likh diya, but "Engine braking" k baray main kuch bhi mention nai kiya. Means abhi bohat kuch learn karna baaqi hay
    Currently riding a Unique 100, also riding big b's suzuki gs 150 [too heavy ]
    Which 1 better Honda 125 or Suzuki GS 150 ? Next ride - Suzuki GD110

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    Quote Originally Posted by waqas18 View Post
    I was talking to my friend today.... I said I want to change front drum brakes to disk brakes...
    He said: o bhai mare ga kbhi bhi mat lagwana... thora sa bhi pani hua road pe.. to tu to gaya... just dont do this :p
    Baqwas. Pani pe "har qism ki brake" may cause the bike to slip. That actually depend on a lot of factors like if you are in a Corner, or overspeeding over Wet area, or trying to brake in wet area ... etc etc.

    Disk Brake is also a "braking solution" ... except, its "quicker and deadly". But that only means that you have "more braking power under your hand" ... and "Controlling" that power depends on YOU i.e. The Rider.
    Riders on the storm ... literally.

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    the reason i wrote alot and invested so much time is the ill stupid, arrogant and JAHIL attitude of our local street mechanics. They are all hit and try, but so sad almost all of them HITs nothing new, so now new experience for them, just same old things their teachers and HATHORAA ustaads told them

    just like waqas said, peple have completely baseless myths that they believe in, and the street mechanic is the biggest propagandist for them
    Currently riding a Unique 100, also riding big b's suzuki gs 150 [too heavy ]
    Which 1 better Honda 125 or Suzuki GS 150 ? Next ride - Suzuki GD110

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    Quote Originally Posted by maqk View Post
    yes i started by clarifying my inexperience which is a true

    jo feel kiaa wo likh diaa praa mereyaa nothing out of the auto mobile engineering text books

    feel free to correct no issues andno offence
    No corrections needed

    I'd agree with one thing very strongly. And that is to brake "BEFORE" its actually needed. For example, if you are crossing a chowk, you "SHOULD" reduce speed, regardless of how empty or crowded the road ahead is. But people mostly don't do that.

    Also, engine braking is crucial to stop your bike at high speeds. Practice "Downshifting WHILE braking" ... and you will master the art of braking.
    Riders on the storm ... literally.

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    awesome point, u actually gave me an example, rather instance to understand engine braking, thanks for that

    actually my post overwhelmed me due to my last 2 accidents lol, aisee situation me gears nikalne ka time hee nahi miltaa cause u can see an accident becoming your destiny - any ways 100% agreed, yes downshifting will cause engine braking (y)
    And I do practice it, just overwhekmed with my accident stories lol
    Quote Originally Posted by abobobilly View Post
    No corrections needed

    I'd agree with one thing very strongly. And that is to brake "BEFORE" its actually needed. For example, if you are crossing a chowk, you "SHOULD" reduce speed, regardless of how empty or crowded the road ahead is. But people mostly don't do that.

    Also, engine braking is crucial to stop your bike at high speeds. Practice "Downshifting WHILE braking" ... and you will master the art of braking.
    Currently riding a Unique 100, also riding big b's suzuki gs 150 [too heavy ]
    Which 1 better Honda 125 or Suzuki GS 150 ? Next ride - Suzuki GD110

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    Quote Originally Posted by ammarzahid View Post
    Proper way to use front brake so bike doesnt dive - lean backwards and apply the brake gently
    Yeah? Well, try doing that in normal circumstances.

    GS150's front forks' travel distance is slightly longer than average. This is the reason why your bike is comfy over bumps.

    And your bike is "SUPPOSED" to dive. While braking, most of bike's brake balance transfers over front wheel ... so its understandable if it dives. If there is no "SHOCK" while diving ("dhachka") then your front shock absorbers are FINE. To experience that, try to brake under high speeds.
    Riders on the storm ... literally.

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    leaning forward or backward or whatever driver position ? Does it cause a difference really ? may be that is for driver's own feel, that is to less feel the brake jerks, but does it improves the braking it self too ?
    Currently riding a Unique 100, also riding big b's suzuki gs 150 [too heavy ]
    Which 1 better Honda 125 or Suzuki GS 150 ? Next ride - Suzuki GD110

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    Quote Originally Posted by maqk View Post
    aisee situation me gears nikalne ka time hee nahi miltaa
    EXACTLY

    Mere saath bhi aisay he hua hay 2-3 baar. So i am talking from experience. Waisay bhi, you can't just master the art of braking without meeting a few incidents. I have made this a habbit of downshifting while braking ... so much that it has become a prime-reflex. Just 2 days ago i had to come to a dead stop from 100km/h at Canal Road because some trucks suddenly blocked the road ahead.

    Downshifting WHILE braking is hard, and takes A LOT of practice. And if your mind is active on your ride, then you will learn it fairly quickly

    Also, while braking, make sure to GRIP your fuel tank with your thighs. This way you will not slide forward under hard braking.
    Riders on the storm ... literally.

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    Quote Originally Posted by maqk View Post
    leaning forward or backward or whatever driver position ? Does it cause a difference really ? may be that is for driver's own feel, that is to less feel the brake jerks, but does it improves the braking it self too ?
    Leaning "Backward" while braking will have adverse effects on braking, and will not prove any advantage.

    The idea is, if your bike needs maximum braking power at front, then by leaning backwards, you are doing AGAINST what the bike needs.

    Haan agar wheel wagera maarna ho to lean backwards, and then maro :p
    Riders on the storm ... literally.

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    agreed

    it all depends on one's practice, like in the beginning, I would simply HARD BRAKE and would expect the bike to somehow STOP but it would still cause the accident because I am driving in real world not matrix

    then i learned to maneuver, it has saved me a lot but it won't save me in heavy traffics - would only change the course and victims(s) of the accident lol

    if one works hard to practice down shifting in situations when HARD BRAKING is required, it would do nothing but ONLY IMPROVE the braking further

    it all depends on your practice, and the practice that you give to yourself, I would definitely do some training on that -

    but hey - perhaps being in very low gear, say 1 or 2 at higher RPM may cause any damage to engine ? I remember myself in this kind of situation before, I somehow down shifted to 1st gear on decent RPM, I think 4K+ and BAD BAD sound came from my bike, so loud that I had to stop for a while and kept wondering what would have happened, but after 2 minutes, I was moving fine towards office

    Quote Originally Posted by abobobilly View Post
    EXACTLY

    Mere saath bhi aisay he hua hay 2-3 baar. So i am talking from experience. Waisay bhi, you can't just master the art of braking without meeting a few incidents. I have made this a habbit of downshifting while braking ... so much that it has become a prime-reflex. Just 2 days ago i had to come to a dead stop from 100km/h at Canal Road because some trucks suddenly blocked the road ahead.

    Downshifting WHILE braking is hard, and takes A LOT of practice. And if your mind is active on your ride, then you will learn it fairly quickly
    Currently riding a Unique 100, also riding big b's suzuki gs 150 [too heavy ]
    Which 1 better Honda 125 or Suzuki GS 150 ? Next ride - Suzuki GD110

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