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Thread: "The deadly front brake" - Proper braking technique on motorbikes

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    Default "The deadly front brake" - Proper braking technique on motorbikes

    Hi,

    Is it really just a rumour that one should ONLY use the front brake when you're just walking the bike by hand or have speeds of less than 15km/h???

    There seems to be a general fear that if you use the front brake at any speed then you're guaranteed to fall over the handlebar, headfirst and risk either a major concussion or death.

    Knowing how to brake properly is a serious aspect of riding a motorbike which should not at all be neglected when learning to ride your bike. Alot of people have been riding a bike for years and most people are either selftaught or are given very little professional training.

    I'd like for people who know from experience to tell me if this rumour is just stupid or if there's proper truth to this.
    __________________________________________________ _________________________________________________

    Why I ask this is because on certain MCforums, it's said that the frontbrake on a motorcycle provides upto 70% of the braking force, where as the rearbrakes only provide 30-40%

    But then if this applies to only sportsbikes with discbrakes or all kinds of motorcycles is also a questionable factor.

    Motorbike vs Cycles -

    Is it fair to compare a motorbike with a cycle? Are cycles more likely to topple over and have you fall headfirst when using the front brake at high speeds?

    There's a difference in inertia ratio when riding a cycle vs MC. When you brake on a cycle, those brakes are trying to stop a light 20kg frame, whereas your own mass of say 80kg is still "moving forward".

    On a motorbike the intertia ratio is more evened out or more in favour of the mc itself as it can be 80-200kg , depending on it being a 70cc or heavy sportsbike. You also have a lower riding position, giving a few degrees of safety.

    Best braking for shortest braking distance and deacceleration 100 --> 0 km/h

    Going at highspeed and clenching either front or rearbrake would seem stupid because it would result in a wheel lock and continued slide (rear), and front clench (bye bye).

    So I guess if you are gradual in using the front brake and slowly clench it tighter alongside the rear brake it should provide faster braking than just relying on the rear brake itself?

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    Quote Originally Posted by abobobilly View Post
    Leaning "Backward" while braking will have adverse effects on braking, and will not prove any advantage.

    The idea is, if your bike needs maximum braking power at front, then by leaning backwards, you are doing AGAINST what the bike needs.

    Haan agar wheel wagera maarna ho to lean backwards, and then maro :p
    I was just quoting what experienced riders had to say about the issue. Dont know if u guys know but diving under braking is not a good characteristic(a symptom of bad dynamics). And, when all of the weight transfers to thw front it becomes much harder for the front brake to do its job(simple principle - more weight, less braking power). Leaning backwards prevents this. Damagh men tasweer bananay say physics nai a jati:p

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    Quote Originally Posted by maqk View Post
    perhaps being in very low gear, say 1 or 2 at higher RPM may cause any damage to engine ? I remember myself in this kind of situation before, I somehow down shifted to 1st gear on decent RPM, I think 4K+ and BAD BAD sound came from my bike, so loud that I had to stop for a while and kept wondering what would have happened, but after 2 minutes, I was moving fine towards office
    I don't mean to say k "aik hi jhatkay main saaray gear nikaal do". Reduce gears gradually. If you do practice, you will realize when you downshift into which gear.

    If you are at high speed, and downshift to a lower range gear then:
    1) You may risk locking the rear wheel up, which may cause the bike to slip.
    2) You may risk damaging the gear cogs inside engine.

    So be careful practicing this.

    Its not that much difficult, just needs some observation. For example, when driving ... don't brake ... except only reduce gears. And you will see the engine "Forcing" the bike to reduce speed at a faster rate. Now imagine "applying the brake" at the same time ... what will happen? Brakes will "assist" engine in stopping faster.
    Riders on the storm ... literally.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ammarzahid View Post
    I was just quoting what experienced riders had to say about the issue. Dont know if u guys know but diving under braking is not a good characteristic(a symptom of bad dynamics).
    True, which is why i mentioned that "dhachka" thing :p
    Riders on the storm ... literally.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ammarzahid View Post
    I was just quoting what experienced riders had to say about the issue. Dont know if u guys know but diving under braking is not a good characteristic(a symptom of bad dynamics). And, when all of the weight transfers to thw front it becomes much harder for the front brake to do its job(simple principle - more weight, less braking power). Leaning backwards prevents this. Damagh men tasweer bananay say physics nai a jati:p

    Sent from my LG-F160K using PW Forums mobile app
    more weight at braking wheel increases its grip hence better traction and more braking force can be applied, remember old cd70 of proper spec weight (80-85kg i think) had better braking than what we get today, especially 70kg or less chondas which just suck at braking. and which brakes to use with what force depends on the bike also.

    cd70 makes ur butt slip(really hard braking) only if both brakes are used simultaneously.
    cg125 both brakes are equally good but i prefer front for normal use and rear or both for sporty.
    cd100, rear will make u slip, use front as much as possible, cd100 front brakes with fat tyres are real good.
    125 deluxe, front only(and learn to control power), rears dont provide enough braking force even for normal use(only for inducing oversteer, course correction) and bike slips under rear brakes if used for stopping.
    yamaha most pakistani yamaha models dont have good front brakes(they get loose no matter what), use both in emergency.
    suzuki, suzuki 110 pakistani models have front braking similar to cd100 but better braking at rear wheels too.
    gs150, 125 front brakes are really good if correctly adjusted.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ammarzahid View Post
    Proper way to use front brake so bike doesnt dive - lean backwards and apply the brake gently

    Sent from my LG-F160K using PW Forums mobile app

    that is against the laws of physics, any machine with suspended wheels will dive under front wheel brake force.You can brace your body to control the bars but there is no way you can move backwards because you are part of the projectile (motorcycle)
    ZRS - Zulfiqar Racing Systems ..... - professionals at work - at crackwheels.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by usman_arooq2 View Post
    more weight at braking wheel increases its grip hence better traction and more braking force can be applied, remember old cd70 of proper spec weight (80-85kg i think) had better braking than what we get today, especially 70kg or less chondas which just suck at braking. and which brakes to use with what force depends on the bike also.

    cd70 makes ur butt slip(really hard braking) only if both brakes are used simultaneously.
    cg125 both brakes are equally good but i prefer front for normal use and rear or both for sporty.
    cd100, rear will make u slip, use front as much as possible, cd100 front brakes with fat tyres are real good.
    125 deluxe, front only(and learn to control power), rears dont provide enough braking force even for normal use(only for inducing oversteer, course correction) and bike slips under rear brakes if used for stopping.
    yamaha most pakistani yamaha models dont have good front brakes(they get loose no matter what), use both in emergency.
    suzuki, suzuki 110 pakistani models have front braking similar to cd100 but better braking at rear wheels too.
    gs150, 125 front brakes are really good if correctly adjusted.
    Brother that is completely incorrect, better research your facts rather than making things up simple science

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xulfiqar View Post
    that is against the laws of physics, any machine with suspended wheels will dive under front wheel brake force.You can brace your body to control the bars but there is no way you can move backwards because you are part of the projectile (motorcycle)
    i messed up my words. leaning backwards won't stop the dive, it'll just lessen it (to some extent), i read this countless times while searching for a quick way to minimize the diving effect under braking. not sure how practical of an idea it is though

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    Quote Originally Posted by abobobilly View Post
    Baqwas. Pani pe "har qism ki brake" may cause the bike to slip. That actually depend on a lot of factors like if you are in a Corner, or overspeeding over Wet area, or trying to brake in wet area ... etc etc.

    Disk Brake is also a "braking solution" ... except, its "quicker and deadly". But that only means that you have "more braking power under your hand" ... and "Controlling" that power depends on YOU i.e. The Rider.
    Yes i know.... but my friend stucked on his opinion....

    You are a person, not a chemical so think before you react !!
    People with high ego and unnecessary attitude deserves the standing ovation of the tallest finger..

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    Most people here foolishly use only the rear brake... I've seen people replacing rear brake pads every so often whereas the front brake pads seems to live on forever. Just plain foolish.
    Braking depends a lot on the surface condition...
    On dry pavement: 70 front/30 rear.
    On wet pavement: 30 front/70 rear. Unless you've got a Traction Control system (which isn't going to happen in Pakistan in this century or even the upcoming one!), in that case set T.C on highest possible setting and set ABS (also not gonna happen anytime soon here!) on "WET" or "RAIN" mode. Then ride like a normal bike without the fear of skidding and crashing! These electronics aids are a God send for motorcyclists! It'll dramatically reduce motorcycle accidents and in turn casualties...
    Off-Road Terrain: It depends on what kind of terrain; rocky, sand, mud etc etc and also depends on the tire (either knobbies or road tires) and one can't give a precise answer... So in that case, USE YOUR HEAD & FEEL YOUR BIKE...!
    Peace.

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    if you are using a 70cc front brake is not recommended I use to stop my junoon at the speed of 110km/h with front bcoz the rear drum was not working good

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    Quote Originally Posted by saboor73 View Post
    if you are using a 70cc front brake is not recommended I use to stop my junoon at the speed of 110km/h with front bcoz the rear drum was not working good
    Lol 110 km/h.
    4 wheels move the body 2 wheels move the soul

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    Quote Originally Posted by ammarzahid View Post
    Brother that is completely incorrect, better research your facts rather than making things up simple science
    which part???? it all depends upon weight distribution of bike..... and more weight at the braking wheel does give more grip thats a fact, ask anyone.
    Bella, You give me everything just by REVing - NEONLIGHT SAGA: NEWTUBE

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    Quote Originally Posted by abobobilly View Post
    Baqwas. Pani pe "har qism ki brake" may cause the bike to slip. That actually depend on a lot of factors like if you are in a Corner, or overspeeding over Wet area, or trying to brake in wet area ... etc etc.

    Disk Brake is also a "braking solution" ... except, its "quicker and deadly". But that only means that you have "more braking power under your hand" ... and "Controlling" that power depends on YOU i.e. The Rider.
    The main problem with a disk is when you lock up the disk brake but if you apply the brake progressively and the brake does not lock up then there is no problem in installing a disc brake. That is why ABS is so life saving in motorbikes

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    Quote Originally Posted by ammarzahid View Post
    I was just quoting what experienced riders had to say about the issue. Dont know if u guys know but diving under braking is not a good characteristic(a symptom of bad dynamics). And, when all of the weight transfers to thw front it becomes much harder for the front brake to do its job(simple principle - more weight, less braking power). Leaning backwards prevents this. Damagh men tasweer bananay say physics nai a jati:p

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    For proper guidance contact Valentino Rossi

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shafin619 View Post
    Lol 110 km/h.
    bro its not a joke
    Attached Images Attached Images  

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    Quote Originally Posted by abobobilly View Post
    @maqk! Bhai itna lamba essay likh diya, but "Engine braking" k baray main kuch bhi mention nai kiya. Means abhi bohat kuch learn karna baaqi hay
    You are right, I actually just learnt riding a bike this past February and rode for 2 months, before leaving Pak. In this short timeperiod

    I've had several minor accidents: 3 times running into a khota reri - scraping my foot, trying to brake and avoid crashing but having no where to turn so the bike hits the khotacart** and I fly like superman over the bike and manage with scratches - I get angry at him for hogging the entire road and being 'blind' lol, I take his 20kg bags of cements which he was transporting and throw them on the road lol .

    And the last time this pagal truck overtakes me in citytraffic at 50-60km/h and when I turn to the left part of the road, this truck moves out and suddenly there's a khota infront of me, not allowing me to brake in time - my front headlight gets shattered :l

    At another time in Gujranwala gtroad, this idiot uncle is making a crazy-superwide u-turn, confusing me who's coming from behind where to turn, so I crash into him, shattering his backlight.

    Another time, another idiot suddenly crosses the road ahead of me while I've just accellerated from 0 - 30km/h. I try using the front brake but to no avail and I hit him right behind his legs so he and his bike falls sideways (it was kind of funny) and I whined that my brake didn't work.

    As for using engine brake, normally when I am to slow down before leaving the mainroad and turning into a residential area, ofcourse I brake and switch to lower gears, but when braking under panic, I have yet to learn this thing. I'm often scolded for lowering the gear at too high speeds - damaging the engine itself, don't know if people actually shift down fast while in a panic at 100km/h on gtroad..to be honest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by abobobilly View Post
    EXACTLY

    Mere saath bhi aisay he hua hay 2-3 baar. So i am talking from experience. Waisay bhi, you can't just master the art of braking without meeting a few incidents. I have made this a habbit of downshifting while braking ... so much that it has become a prime-reflex. Just 2 days ago i had to come to a dead stop from 100km/h at Canal Road because some trucks suddenly blocked the road ahead.

    Downshifting WHILE braking is hard, and takes A LOT of practice. And if your mind is active on your ride, then you will learn it fairly quickly

    Also, while braking, make sure to GRIP your fuel tank with your thighs. This way you will not slide forward under hard braking.
    it only happens on flat tank bike, if you are riding delux, gs, piaggio you wont have to grip the tank, just like in cg, because their seat has a bend which stops rider from skidding while breaking

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    Quote Originally Posted by k-four-nine View Post
    Most people here foolishly use only the rear brake... I've seen people replacing rear brake pads every so often whereas the front brake pads seems to live on forever. Just plain foolish.
    Braking depends a lot on the surface condition...
    On dry pavement: 70 front/30 rear.
    On wet pavement: 30 front/70 rear. Unless you've got a Traction Control system (which isn't going to happen in Pakistan in this century or even the upcoming one!), in that case set T.C on highest possible setting and set ABS (also not gonna happen anytime soon here!) on "WET" or "RAIN" mode. Then ride like a normal bike without the fear of skidding and crashing! These electronics aids are a God send for motorcyclists! It'll dramatically reduce motorcycle accidents and in turn casualties...
    Off-Road Terrain: It depends on what kind of terrain; rocky, sand, mud etc etc and also depends on the tire (either knobbies or road tires) and one can't give a precise answer... So in that case, USE YOUR HEAD & FEEL YOUR BIKE...!
    Peace.
    Very good comment you've just verified to me that it's infact a common thing for people in Pak to ignore the front brake alot. :l

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    Quote Originally Posted by ammarzahid View Post
    I was just quoting what experienced riders had to say about the issue. Dont know if u guys know but diving under braking is not a good characteristic(a symptom of bad dynamics). And, when all of the weight transfers to thw front it becomes much harder for the front brake to do its job(simple principle - more weight, less braking power). Leaning backwards prevents this. Damagh men tasweer bananay say physics nai a jati:p

    Sent from my LG-F160K using PW Forums mobile app
    talking about physics, the factors involved behind braking are:
    1. friction between tyre n road (the more weight on the braking wheel, the more rubber sticks to the road, hence better grip, friction and braking)
    2. friction between drums and shoes or disks and pads (we know that disks are more powerful, but braking is also a kind of accleration(the negative one) so the rider must be capable of handling more power)
    3. total inertia (i think u are confused total inertia or weight with the weight on braking wheel, of course more inertia requires more force(distance) to stop, change its direction etc.)
    4. distribution of inertia on wheels(more weight on braking wheel means it grips the road even more, so when u pull brakes while bike is traveling forwards, the bike and ur body wants to keep moving forward, thats why all the weight is transferred to front wheel, when there is less weight on rear wheel, it starts to lose contact with road and begins to slip, thats why most sports bikes with their heavy weight slip if u try to stop them with rear brakes only, proper use of front brakes is the key here.
    Bella, You give me everything just by REVing - NEONLIGHT SAGA: NEWTUBE

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    Quote Originally Posted by usman_arooq2 View Post
    talking about physics, the factors involved behind braking are:
    1. friction between tyre n road (the more weight on the braking wheel, the more rubber sticks to the road, hence better grip, friction and braking)
    2. friction between drums and shoes or disks and pads (we know that disks are more powerful, but braking is also a kind of accleration(the negative one) so the rider must be capable of handling more power)
    3. total inertia (i think u are confused total inertia or weight with the weight on braking wheel, of course more inertia requires more force(distance) to stop, change its direction etc.)
    4. distribution of inertia on wheels(more weight on braking wheel means it grips the road even more, so when u pull brakes while bike is traveling forwards, the bike and ur body wants to keep moving forward, thats why all the weight is transferred to front wheel, when there is less weight on rear wheel, it starts to lose contact with road and begins to slip, thats why most sports bikes with their heavy weight slip if u try to stop them with rear brakes only, proper use of front brakes is the key here.
    Yes, i thought you were talking about the total weight of the vehicle. Thanks for the detailed explanation! :-) I hope you didnt mind :-)

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